Accuracy-Reliability in a new 1911 45ACP-Who does it best?

[tazman]

Who makes the most reliable and accurate 1911 style 45ACP on the market today right out of the box?
No gunsmithing. No replaced parts. No extras. Just as it comes from the box.
Reliability to be no failures to feed or fire with new ammunition even if it is only hardball.
Accuracy to be no worse than 5 inch groups at 25 yards.
I want to be able to buy a weapon and shoot it knowing that it will consistently put rounds in the 9 ring on a silhouette at normal combat distances without needing work or extra parts to make it function reliably.

I have had a number of bad experiences with 1911 style semi auto handguns that simply didn't work right or would not shoot accurately. I can't afford to buy a bunch and try them attempting to find one that works as it should.
I get that kind of function and accuracy with revolvers. The 1911 has been around over 100 years now. Someone should be making a bullet proof gun by now that doesn't require trips to the gunsmith.

[Wialco]

You didn't mention
any price range but my Kimber is remarkably accurate and has never malfunctioned with a variety of hand loads and factory ammo. I have a Jim Clark Heavy Slide that will hold 1.5" @ 50 yds but falls in another price bracket. Ed Brown also produces match ready 1911 platforms as well as others.

[RobS]

Sig has been good to my dad and I. Between the two of us we have a 3.3" Ultra, 4.25" Commander Nightmare Fastback, 5" STX as well as a 38 super 5". All are very accurate and very well put together.

[tazman]

I didn't list a price point because I didn't want to limit suggestions. Prices are always negotiable to an extent. Inexpensive is nice but not at the expense of reliability.
I don't need match accuracy. The 9 ring on a silhouette target is something like 6-8 inches depending on the target. I want to be able to count on solid body hits at ranges out to 20-25 yards.
Also, this will not be a concealed carry gun. More for night stand or open carry while in the woods.

[Ed_Shot]

I didn't list a price point because I didn't want to limit suggestions. Prices are always negotiable to an extent. Inexpensive is nice but not at the expense of reliability.
I don't need match accuracy. The 9 ring on a silhouette target is something like 6-8 inches depending on the target. I want to be able to count on solid body hits at ranges out to 20-25 yards.
Also, this will not be a carry gun. More for night stand or open carry while in the woods.

Since you are open to suggestions.....a Glock 21 fits your requirements perfectly. Love mine w/LW barrel.

[jrayborn]

For the price, I suggest Dan Wesson. Hard to beat.

[Dan Cash]

I have a bucket full of Kimbers which are flawless and have pleased me for many years, pushing 20 I think. Recently shot a friends new out of the box Ruger commander size pistol with factory and my 225 grain TC hand loads. We put nearly 300 rounds through the pistol with out a failure. Accuracy was first class as well.

[Spruce]

I think a Kimber will be hard to beat. I have a semi custom 1911 Colt. I bought a SS Kimber from a divorce sale and I have been very impressed.

[rintinglen]

I am no fan of the 1911, having had my share of guns over the years that needed work just to make them go bang reliably, but I would look long and hard at the Kimber Line--they seem to offer the best deal for the money and the three I have shot have all been 3 inch or better 25 yard guns.

[243winxb]

Target/Bullseye- springfield 1911 45 range officer

[Mk42gunner]

I have persoanally bought two brand new 1911 pattern guns in my life. One was an Auto Ordnance back in the late eighties, it ate hardball with no hickups that I can remember. I bought a Kimber Classic Custom in 2000 or 2001 that has never jammed with any normal load.

There was also a 3½" (Officer's ACP size) Para Ord LDA that was reliable; but it went down the road, I didn't like the round topped sights and the pivoting trigger on what was basically a 1911 just felt wrong to me.

As for what is on the market right now, I can't help.

Robert

[DougGuy]

I would not place a moratorium against some common sense tuning since this greatly affects reliability, AND the ammo the pistol will feed. Or not.

Of all the 1911s made in the last 20-30 years, the trend has been for manufacturers to do as little to the throat of the barrel as they can get away with. This includes Kimber, and even Lone Wolf if you ask for a cast boolit throat, you will get a longer section of .4515" freebore that STILL will not plunk a .452" boolit unless it's seated too deep.

Pretty much going to be able to look in any of the production guns' barrels and see very little freebore, and I honestly cannot tell you or recommend which manufacturer might have a sufficient, and I might add properly SAAMI spec'd throat in the barrel. They just don't bother.

For the record, the barrel in this photo is a stock Range Officer barrel on the left, and after throating on the right. Note the lack of any sense of what you could call a throat. This is typical, and they typically shoot lights out after throating, so I would not stand too heavily on having ZERO work done to a 1911, unless all you want to ever shoot is hardball.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg.html)

[XDROB]

SIG also makes a good 1911. I bought a Fastback full size that you could call new because of the lack of use from original owner. I have over 1500 rnds through it so far. Mixed comercial and reloads of all bullet shapes and weights. Eats it all.

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[XDROB]

And I forgot to say pretty accurate. Without doing any work to it. I do think that it needs the trigger smoothed out. Maybe by polishing innards.

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[shtur]

Bullseye shooters that go for reliability and small groups give all their praise only to the Spingfield Range Officer. The Range Officer is the only 1911 currently made to take you all the way to master without any work to it out of the box. Ask your question at Bullseyeforum.net, and you'll get the answer I just provided. They shoot lead as good as jacketed, don't buy the BS they need throating work done.

[M-Tecs]

Les Baer

http://www.lesbaer.com/

http://www.lesbaer.com/CMP.html

These are guaranteed to shoot 10-shot, 3 inch groups at 50 yards with ball ammo. They used to guaranty 1 /1/2" for there standard NM build and 1" 10 shot groups at 50 yards for select for an up charge. The issue they had was the guns would do it but most shooters ammo or the shooter was not up to the task so they got a lot of returns and when tested with factory match ammo holding 10 sub 1" groups was not a issue I am not sure but I believe they still offer the 1 1/2" guaranty for an up charge. The test group with mine was about 3/4" . Mine is a standard NM. A group of us ordered five. Only one is not still with the original owner. He no longer can see well enough to shoot.

At 15K plus through it is still easily sub 1 1/4" for 10 shot groups at 50 yards with Federal or Winchester match.

I can't say for sure I don't remember ever having a stoppage with it.

[sghart3578]

To the OP:

This is a great thread, thank you.

For years I have owned and shot my beater Auto Ordnance with great results. When I first got it it was already well used. I replaced the extractor and firing pin stop. This cured the faulty ejection and feed issues.

I have fired thousands of Lee 200 gr LSWC's through it and I love it.

Then, in preparation for my new CCW, I broke down and bought a Kimber Ultra Carry ll. My first three shots were 1 hole at 15 yards. It eats everything and the trigger is great.

Now I know why guys shell out the extra bucks.

[marlin39a]

I have a box stock S&W SW1911. It is very accurate.

[Brad Cayton]

My 1911 experience has been different than some or maybe I was just lucky. My first was a Colt in the early 80s in 38 ACP. I didn't have it long but don't remember any issues with it. I made another run at 1911s a couple years ago. I have 2 Springfields, a RO and a RO compact in 45 ACP that have never had any issues at all. My Ruger SR CMDR in 45 has had maybe half a dozen, self inflicted, failures to feed caused by me trying to get another load out of brass that should have been trashed. I shoot the Ruger more than the others. I've put several hundred rounds of ball and reloads with a HG 68 coated boolit through them. I picked up a RI GI in 38 super a few weeks ago and have run 50 rounds of ball and about 300 of Lee 124 TC coated boolit reloads through it without any issues so far. All of them more than fall well into your accuracy standard and all of them are out of the box except the Ruger. I replaced the barrel right after I first got it because the rifling in the original barrel was very rough. Could have sent it back to Ruger but wanted to try my hand at fitting a barrel.

[Virginia John]

Wilson Combat

[Love Life]

Colt series 70 Gold Cup National Match (The new ones) or a Les Baer.

[Forrest r]

I would not place a moratorium against some common sense tuning since this greatly affects reliability, AND the ammo the pistol will feed. Or not.

Of all the 1911s made in the last 20-30 years, the trend has been for manufacturers to do as little to the throat of the barrel as they can get away with. This includes Kimber, and even Lone Wolf if you ask for a cast boolit throat, you will get a longer section of .4515" freebore that STILL will not plunk a .452" boolit unless it's seated too deep.

Pretty much going to be able to look in any of the production guns' barrels and see very little freebore, and I honestly cannot tell you or recommend which manufacturer might have a sufficient, and I might add properly SAAMI spec'd throat in the barrel. They just don't bother.

For the record, the barrel in this photo is a stock Range Officer barrel on the left, and after throating on the right. Note the lack of any sense of what you could call a throat. This is typical, and they typically shoot lights out after throating, so I would not stand too heavily on having ZERO work done to a 1911, unless all you want to ever shoot is hardball.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg.html)

Yup my 45acp bbl on my springfield ro looked just like the one pictured above.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/ropair_zpsjjjmkgtp.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/ropair_zpsjjjmkgtp.jpg.html)

Never had any issues loading 230gr fmj's to 1.270" but I prefer the h&g #68's to the tried and true 1.250".
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/hpsp1250.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/hpsp1250.jpg.html)

Straight out of the box,no mods/exta parts or replacement parts/no tweeks/no throat work. 10-shot groups @50ft.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/38bull50ft_zps126936b2.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/38bull50ft_zps126936b2.jpg.html)

Now to springfield ro chambered in 9mm on the other hand came from the factory looking like this, a highly polished throat.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/9mmchamberleade_zpsecwhgkdb.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/9mmchamberleade_zpsecwhgkdb.jpg.html)

Again no mods/extra parts or replacement parts, box stock doing 10-shot groups @ 50ft.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/ro9mm50ft_zpslprjmumk.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/ro9mm50ft_zpslprjmumk.jpg.html)

Bought the ro in 45acp a couple of years ago, it shoots extremely well and everything I've fed it without issue. I did put a progressive spring in it when it was time for a spring change. Felt better about shooting soft target loads and +p+ loads in the same range session. Paid under $700 for the ro in 45acp, liked it enough I decided to buy another 1. This time chambered in 9mm. Paid $750 for that 9mm ro which was money well spent in my opinion. It also has run flawlessly while being more accurate than I can hold.

Surprisingly enough that ro in 9mm coupled with a lyman 35870 hb bullet is a real eye opener. Put a 10# spring in the ro/9mm and did some 10-shot groups @50yds.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/358709mm_zps9110adbe.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/358709mm_zps9110adbe.jpg.html)

Not bad for stock $750 1911 with a $5 10# spring added to it.

For what the op is asking out of a 1911, almost any brand out there will work. You want to start shooting bullseye, the list gets smaller real quick.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm going to give another vote for Kimber. An acquaintance ordered a Les Baer and when it arrived he ended up standing beside me on the line. My Kimber would hold the same group as his Les Bear and the Kimber was a Commander length pistol.

Out of all of the 1911's I owned or shot, the Kimber stood out as the best "Out of the box" pistol. That was many years ago and I no longer play in the 1911 sandbox, so I can't comment on the current situation.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

This month's American Handgunner magazine has an article by Massad Ayood entitled Long Distance Killer. Colt's got my vote.

[ole 5 hole group]

I'm going to give another vote for Kimber. An acquaintance order a Les Bear and when it arrived he ended up standing beside me on the line. My Kimber would hold the same group as his Les Bear and the Kimber was a Commander length pistol.

Out of all of the 1911's I owned or shot, the Kimber stood out as the best "Out of the box" pistol. That was many years ago and I no longer play in the 1911 sandbox, so I can't comment on the current situation.

Post #16 will explain that - your buddy may be a fine pistol shooter but it would appear that he wasn't capable of taking advantage of the Baer 1911 accuracy potential of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards - not to say that's bad, as not many people on this planet are capable of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards offhand, but there aren't many Kimber's in this world that will run will a Baer - my opinion of course.;)

[Petrol & Powder]

Post #16 will explain that - your buddy may be a fine pistol shooter but it would appear that he wasn't capable of taking advantage of the Baer 1911 accuracy potential of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards - not to say that's bad, as not many people on this planet are capable of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards offhand, but there aren't many Kimber's in this world that will run will a Baer - my opinion of course.;)
Well it's anecdotal at best but we were both decent marksman. Truth be told, he was probably a little better than me.
25 yards was the max distance you could shoot at that range and I did have the advantage of a little more trigger time with my pistol. I don't doubt the quality of a Les Baer pistol and I'm not claiming the Kimber will always outshoot a Les Baer but the Kimber's I've seen are very good for the money.

[Buckeye357]

I had a Kimber Custom II didn't impress still have my two Colts though a newer 1991 and a 100 th anniversary model both are keepers. The new Colts are really well built and priced right.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I Vote Ruger this one runs right out of the box http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6708.html

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The Colt's 1911 in the American Handgunner was an 80 yard shot.

[Love Life]

190474

25 yards fired from this gun:

190475

No tweaks, no add on parts. Open box, clean gun before first use, go to the range and have fun.

[bluelund79]

My Les Baer will fit that bill. I have a Series I Kimber, it's good too, but not nearly as nice as my LB, I have yet to find a Series II Kimber that will hold a candle to either. Surprisingly, my Springfield Armory Range Officer also fits that bill too. All three are much different price points. Have fun in your search.

[ole 5 hole group]

Now that is a mighty fine 10-shot group. Back in the day there used to be a lot of Colt NM's running with the Clark's and other big names in the Custom circles. I went with Clark but got my **** handed to me more times than I care to remember by guys shooting Colt NM's out of the box. Wasn't so much the pistol, as those boys were just plain greaaat from the 50 yard line with those ponies.

I have a hard time finding 5-rounds that really like playing together, so these days I pretty much just shoot 5-shot groups for bragging rights. With a few years under my belt shooting 1911's and having a Baer 1911 with the 1.5" option - these are examples of groups that can be expected from the 25 yard line from a solid rest - some youngsters can probably do as well off-hand but I'm old.

I can shoot at or near 3" groups at 50 yards (5-shot) maybe 1 out of 3 or 4 groups shot with the larger groups usually running over 3" but under 4.5" from a solid rest. Occasionally I can shoot better if the stars and moon are aligned just right and Lady Luck takes kindly to my ways that day but that's not too often these days - but she kinda took a shine to me 40/45 years ago.

Here's a couple groups from when I was developing a target load. I settled on 4.2 grains of N310 for accuracy, recovery time and comfort. 1911 Baers are mighty fine pistols for the money but unless you have the "need" or feel the "want" real bad, there are other 1911's for a lot less money that shoot just fine for the non-competitive shooter. Most guys don't have the time or money to be a serious competitive shooters anyway, so keeping 10-shots within a bushel basket at 50 yards is more than good enough offhand.

That 2 hole group with the N320 load hasn't been duplicated - that 2nd shot didn't like the others and the 3rd,4th and 5th shots were practicing Zen, never to be repeated. Carry on.


190507190508190509190510

[Love Life]

Ole 5 hole group- That group was fired from a rest. I apologize for omitting that important fact!! I have several more targets similar to that one from doing load development with Ramshot Competition. The average for that Colt is under 2.5 inches for 10 shot groups during load development. I'm sure I could tighten things up with a new barrel bushing, but I decided to leave well enough alone.

I have a Baer UTC without the 1.5 inch guarantee and it consistently outshoots the Colt with the same loads at 25 and 50 yards.

[Texas by God]

Try a Turkish made Regent. Budget priced good reviews.

[rintinglen]

The least expensive Les Baer is double what a Kimber or a Colt runs, triple what a Ruger or Springfield armory Runs, and nearly quadruple what a Rock Island Armory goes for. In fact The better, or at least higher end Baers cost more than most of the cars I've owned. There are 1911's for every taste and pocket book, but custom pistols aren't the same as off the shelf.

[Texas by God]

I don't see why a Ruger or Remington wouldn't serve. Also my nephew bought a Taurus PT1911 that has everything we added to a Colt back in the day and it is super accurate & 100% with factory & handloads. People tease him about that Taurus till they shoot it.....

[Pawpaw757]

I've got a Colt Gold Cup from the mid 70's. The barrel is worn out and it still shoots great. Can't wait to see how it does with a new barrel.

[Love Life]

The least expensive Les Baer is double what a Kimber or a Colt runs, triple what a Ruger or Springfield armory Runs, and nearly quadruple what a Rock Island Armory goes for. In fact The better, or at least higher end Baers cost more than most of the cars I've owned. There are 1911's for every taste and pocket book, but custom pistols aren't the same as off the shelf.

My UTC was not double what the Colt cost. Crazy John was selling Premier II pistols last year for $1,400.00. Baer is the best deal of the Semi-Custom makers (Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, etc) and a downright bargain compared to a full on Custom which can quickly climb up over $5,000.00.

To answer the OP: A Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc will do what you want to do. I would buy American over one of the foreign guns out of principle.

[Walt]

First on my list would be a 5" Wilson Combat and right next to it a 5" Les Baer.

[lotech]

Aside from expensive, specialized custom and semi-custom guns that are in a different class of comparison, Colt remains the standard. That's not to imply it's always comparatively the best in every respect. Colt probably continues to retain a higher resale than the copies.

[reddog81]

If 5" groups at 25 yards is your benchmark then most of today's makers should be capable. Any manufacturer that is worse than that has either been weeded out of the market or the gun you got is a lemon. I'm guessing most of the guns in the $600 to $800 can meet that standard. If you can spend a little more than $1,000 i'd just go with a Colt Gold Cup. If you've got a couple grand than any of the custom makers out there will be able meet your needs.

[Love Life]

Don't be afraid of looking on the used market for a higher end gun. 1911 addicts always has some deals. I bought my first Les Baer, a Hillsdale made Ball Gun, used for $1,250.00. It was somebody's safe queen and is know one of my range favorites.

[ole 5 hole group]

Love Life is on the money there - I purchased both of my Baer PII's with 1.5" option used - one for $1,450 and the other for $1,400.

There are many people out there that believe the pistol shoots the small groups and when they find out they can't shoot that 1911 guaranteed to shoot 10 rounds into a 1.5" group at 50 yards any better than their less expensive 1911, they are a little disappointed/disgusted with the whole game of handgun target shooting. I'm pretty sure I could have purchased the pistols for less, but their offering price was very reasonable and I see no reason to kick a man when he's down, unless he's my enemy.

Some people have run into better deals from deep pocket guys who just want to get rid of their "mistake" and move on to something else - I haven't been fortunate enough to run into those guys.

[PbHurler]

I’ve ALWAYS been a revolver fan, and shoot them pretty well.I once asked a gentleman if 1911’s were inherently inaccurate since everyone I saw shooting them at the range he worked at, couldn’t print a handball sizedgroup at 25’ with them. He told me if you can shoot, they’re darned accurate.

In 2010, I decided I’d buy a 1911 in .45 acp because I’ve always wanted to own this iconic model and it was the 100yr anniversary of the 1911.

I figured I’d only own one, felt a few over & became enamored with the Ed Browns. When I finally decided to purchase, and after the bosses’ “permission”,I went to pick up a SS Special Forces Ed brown.

Much to my disappointment, it had sold. (it figures). I was shown another Brown, the Molon Labe model, and this model felt wonderful. It came home with me. This was (is) a fantastic shooter with whatever I’d feed it.230 Ball, 200gr SWC’s , anything. Phenomenal trigger, slide feels like it’s on ball bearings, I justlove it.

So much so, I was in the shop a few weeks later and the SS Special Forces was back in stock. Yep, it came home too. Another fantastic 1911.

I don’t do things like this AT ALL, but my wife encouraged me, and I had her blessing to do so for being an OK guy I guess.

I have absolutely NO regrets with my Browns, They’ve been flawless for me and have always been damned accurate to boot

[Love Life]

Whenever a question like the OP's comes up, I tend to ask "How far do you want to shoot, and how much do you want to spend?"

If the asker is your typical 7 yard superexpertoneholealldaylongif'nIdomypart type of person, then I recommend a bargain basement foreign job because any 1911 made with semi ok parts and sort of in spec will shoot very well at 7 yards, good to ten, and probably respectable to 15 yards.

If the asker starts at 15 yards, and wants great accuracy there and up to 25 yards, then I'll recommend a Colt, Springfield, or a Kimber.

If the asker starts at 25 and wants to shoot 50 yards, and may even want to shoot groups on paper...for score (not ring steel all day long if'n I do my part) then I start to creep up into the semi customs with Baer leading the way for value to performance ratio.

If the asker wants to win...then I recommend custom smiths.

[lotech]

I've shot 1911's, other semi-automatics, and revolvers for many years. Perhaps I just lack good shooting skills, but I've always thought 1911s were the most difficult of full-sized handguns to master. A plain out-of-the-box 1911 is generally capable of much better accuracy than many will admit. It takes some serious 25 yard shooting over a steady rest using a good consistent bench technique to verify this. I suspect many of us have never done this or have attempted it only to have a true depiction of accuracy negated by our shortcomings.

[XDROB]

25 yards, but not an out of box gun. First used gun I ever bought. Granted not a carry gun either. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/96a31b4f3d438e362dc6c1f75b1765f5.jpg

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[35remington]

Actually, in my experience, when I introduce people to shooting they have without a single exception shot the 1911 better than any other centerfire automatic and very noticeably better than any of the plastikpistoles.

[brassrat]

That's because it's a real .45

Oh yeah, I second getting a Dan Wesson or maybe a Les Baer, both used.

[The Governor]

I like this one a lot;

]http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/burley_bucket/20160223_201245.jpg

[Love Life]

I like this one a lot;

]

Very nice!

[DougGuy]

I like this one a lot;

]http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/burley_bucket/20160223_201245.jpg

I read a lot about these, made in USA, forged frame and slide, 416SS barrel, only made 1,000 pistols in the first run, discontinued them citing non availability of repair parts. I thought c'mon yer kidding me right? The USA is swimming in 1911 parts!

[The Governor]

Thanks for noticing my CZ!
I think, if you can fund one, it's a great value. Mine was < $800. I find it's not as easy to shoot as accurately as a 2 K
custom, but it has fired and cycled every time.

[birch]

I feel the 1911 is the hardest pistol to shoot more than "ordinary" accurate. I have found that I am not a good enough shot to realize the accuracy potential of a high end 1500+ price tag. My suggestion is if you are a casual shooter who sometimes makes a nice 15 yard group, a new model colt gold cup or Dan Wesson will get you happy.

However, if I had the extra cash, I would by a Les Baer or Wilson Combat in a heart beat!


There is a big difference between a 600 dollar 1911 and a 1000 dollar example. I did get my hands on a Ruger R1 1911 and was impressed.

For me, the best indicator of an accurate 1911 is a fine trigger. I would take a fine trigger over bank vault lock up every time. I also like buying oversized barrel bushings and fitting those to the gun. I can do one in a long evening, and there is a sense of satisfaction in improving accuracy through work.

[Char-Gar]

Who makes the most reliable and accurate 1911 style 45ACP on the market today right out of the box?
No gunsmithing. No replaced parts. No extras. Just as it comes from the box.
Reliability to be no failures to feed or fire with new ammunition even if it is only hardball.
Accuracy to be no worse than 5 inch groups at 25 yards.
I want to be able to buy a weapon and shoot it knowing that it will consistently put rounds in the 9 ring on a silhouette at normal combat distances without needing work or extra parts to make it function reliably.

I have had a number of bad experiences with 1911 style semi auto handguns that simply didn't work right or would not shoot accurately. I can't afford to buy a bunch and try them attempting to find one that works as it should.
I get that kind of function and accuracy with revolvers. The 1911 has been around over 100 years now. Someone should be making a bullet proof gun by now that doesn't require trips to the gunsmith.

Any good 1911 should be 100% reliable after a short break end period. Any good 1911 should be well under your standards for accuracy.

I can recommend to you that without question the Ruger R1911 will do what you want and far more. For the money it the best buy, made in American and by a company that will stand by their products.

I have a pair of Colts and a Ruger and all three will do what you ask and better. Of the two, the Ruger costs less, and performs as well as the Colts. You should be able to get a Ruger for $600.00 plus or minus 50 bucks. A Colt will cost hundreds more and not shoot any better.

Glen Fryxell bought a new Ruger a few months back and thinks it is great. He did have one bad mag, that he sent back to Ruger and they replaced it ASAP for free. My Ruger mags are all great.

I just am not into high dollar 1911s. Hell, I have had Norincos that will do what you ask. I suspect that most of the imports will do what you ask. The closer to the original Browning design and specs the more reliable the pistol become. Lots of folks and manufactures all all sorts if stuff to the original design. Most of it is marketing without any real benefit and sometimes induces problems. John Browning was a mechanical genius and just leave it at that.

I don't know what the source of your 1911 problems have been, but my gut tells me that you or somebody else thought they could improve on the Browning design and ooops. That is where most of these problems come from. Take all this internet stuff about change this, replace this, modify that stuff with a very large grain of salt.

[ole 5 hole group]

Haaa, but Char-Gar, unless you spend a few bucks and possess a semi-custom pistol that possesses the ability to put 10 rounds in a very tight group at 50 yards; you'll never have that "feeling" of what the hell was that all about when a coyote comes within 40 yards of your hide and your 1st shot is a complete miss while your second shot seals the deal. I've even missed blackbirds at 30 feet - broadside to me. Now, I can handle and shoot that Baer fairly well but sometimes these creatures must be dead but just don't know they're suppose to be dead.

I never felt embarrassed about missing with a less expensive 1911.;)

[Char-Gar]

Haaa, but Char-Gar, unless you spend a few bucks and possess a semi-custom pistol that possesses the ability to put 10 rounds in a very tight group at 50 yards; you'll never have that "feeling" of what the hell was that all about when a coyote comes within 40 yards of your hide and your 1st shot is a complete miss while your second shot seals the deal. I've even missed blackbirds at 30 feet - broadside to me. Now, I can handle and shoot that Baer fairly well but sometimes these creatures must be dead but just don't know they're suppose to be dead.

I never felt embarrassed about missing with a less expensive 1911.;)

I am 55 years deep into 1911 pistols and was a serious Bullseye competitor in the early 60's. I owned high end custom pistols by Bob Chow and Clark. They would chew out the X ring at 50 yards if you did your part.

I have owned about 40 1911 pistols over the years, all up and down the price curve. I have put at least 3/4 million rounds through these pistols. I am creeping up on 75 and don't shoot as well as I did many years ago, but I can still give most folks a run for their money. At 30 feet a blackbird would be grave yard dead with my common Colt GM and Ruger.

Don't assume things about people you don't know.

[ole 5 hole group]

Sorry that you took my last post as meaning anything but an attempt at humor. I was trying to poke fun at myself - again, I apologize for any offense you may have taken to my post.

[Char-Gar]

Sorry that you took my last post as meaning anything but an attempt at humor. I was trying to poke fun at myself - again, I apologize for any offense you may have taken to my post.

I got the self depreciating humor, but it was predicated on the notion that I did not spend the bucks for a high end pistol and that unless I did, I wouldn't the feeling of missing easy targets with an expensive pistol. I have spent the bucks and I do know what it means to hit and miss with high end and basic 1911 pistols. I have done my share of both.

I was not offended, I just didn't want to leave the impression that my experience with the 1911 pistol was on the low basic end. My opinions are based on real experience and not theory. I have screwed up my share of 1911 pistols by trying to improve on the Browning design. That is how I know.

There are very few 1911 shooters that can really tell the difference between a $600.00 pistol and a $1,500.00 pistol, much less a $2,000.00 plus pistol. Folks are free to spend their money any way they wish, I was trying to give the OP a steer in the right directions.

[gray wolf]

There are very few 1911 shooters that can really tell the difference between a $600.00 pistol and a $1,500.00 pistol, much less a $2,000.00 plus pistol.

I couldn't agree more, like someone said,

some people make things happen
some people watch things happen
and some people have no idea what happened

[M-Tecs]

One point that has not been brought up yet is very few shooters use ammunition that is as accurate as the better 1911's.

[Bigslug]

I don't know what the source of your 1911 problems have been, but my gut tells me that you or somebody else thought they could improve on the Browning design and ooops. That is where most of these problems come from. Take all this internet stuff about change this, replace this, modify that stuff with a very large grain of salt.

:goodpost:

I have a '44 production Colt, all original parts, finish mostly gone, bore frosty, rattles a bit when you shake it, that will keep a magazine of hardball in an eye-socket sized group at ten yards, and I'm not performing malfunction drills while I'm doing it.

This notion that the 1911 needs to be an individually-tuned masterpiece of NASA clean-room CNC tolerances to shoot accurately, let alone function reliably, is one of my great firearm peeves. Use decent steel and build it to the blueprints, build its magazines to the blueprints, then learn not to need a match trigger as a crutch for poor grip and trigger technique, and the gun will deliver.

I have more respect for the entry price point Rock Islands of my friends that I have played with than many of the outfits proclaiming "look at our shiny piece of art nouveau" because they're one of the few manufacturers that still properly grasp what the 1911 was FOR and what it was supposed to BE.

[tazman]

Any good 1911 should be 100% reliable after a short break end period. Any good 1911 should be well under your standards for accuracy.

I can recommend to you that without question the Ruger R1911 will do what you want and far more. For the money it the best buy, made in American and by a company that will stand by their products.

I have a pair of Colts and a Ruger and all three will do what you ask and better. Of the two, the Ruger costs less, and performs as well as the Colts. You should be able to get a Ruger for $600.00 plus or minus 50 bucks. A Colt will cost hundreds more and not shoot any better.

Glen Fryxell bought a new Ruger a few months back and thinks it is great. He did have one bad mag, that he sent back to Ruger and they replaced it ASAP for free. My Ruger mags are all great.

I just am not into high dollar 1911s. Hell, I have had Norincos that will do what you ask. I suspect that most of the imports will do what you ask. The closer to the original Browning design and specs the more reliable the pistol become. Lots of folks and manufactures all all sorts if stuff to the original design. Most of it is marketing without any real benefit and sometimes induces problems. John Browning was a mechanical genius and just leave it at that.

I don't know what the source of your 1911 problems have been, but my gut tells me that you or somebody else thought they could improve on the Browning design and ooops. That is where most of these problems come from. Take all this internet stuff about change this, replace this, modify that stuff with a very large grain of salt.

For the sake of information and not argument. I have been trying out a variety of 1911 style handguns at indoor ranges when they happen to have one available to rent or try out. None of these were what I would consider quality guns. As far as I know, none of them were modified but since they are by definition, used, I can't vouch for that. I only know I didn't do it to any of them.
All were fired with factory new hardball so as to reduce or eliminate problems with feed and function. Many had feed problems anyway. Others had accuracy issues. Some had both. I don't know why.
None of them were high dollar guns. I suspect the establishment owners didn't want to expose their better quality guns to people they weren't sure would handle them properly.
I can't say I am an expert semi auto shooter. I don't have any experience with them other than my Beretta 92FS. I don't have feed or accuracy problems with it and I don't have accuracy issues with my revolvers. But I am thinking about a 45ACP and I like the design of the 1911.
I don't want to modify a handgun to make it work. From what has been said here, I shouldn't need to. I am not and most likely will never be a good enough shot to even consider the super accurate custom guns. I can do well enough to shoot the groups I asked about in my original post. That level of accuracy in addition to reliability would serve my needs quite well.
Please keep the advice and suggestions coming gentlemen. I am learning a lot here.

[Love Life]

Colt, Springfield, Kimber, or something else American. All 3 offer options in several different price ranges, will meet your requirements, and offer outstanding customer service.

I'd look to getting a model with a beaver tail grip safety for comfort. I don't need a beavertail since I tend to hold lower on my non-beavertail guns, but just something to consider.

[DougGuy]

I found three of the CZ 1911A1 pistols on Gunbroker under $1k, one is $875 with free shipping all three NIB. If I was in the market for another 1911A1, THIS one would be my choice.

These are 100% made in USA pistols, with a match grade SS barrel, forged frame and forged slide, with what CZ says is an "improved" slide to frame fit, they are very well made and one of the better WWII style 1911A1 pistols that I have seen. Colt and Springfield both made their 1911A1 copies and they aren't anywhere near as authentic as the CZ. How do you improve on one of the best designs ever made? CZ did it with better slide to frame fit, a better barrel, and they designed their model with an easily changeable dovetail front sight.

[XDROB]

Ok, enough said. I inherited a Rand from my dad when he passed away. He said it was just a (rack gun) not accurate at all at distance. Had a big, too big for me plastic thumb-rest grips on it. But that's the way it's staying. I can put 6 holes in 8 and 9 ring at 25 yards with it. There's always a flyer. This is a gun that is at least 50 years old. So I guess what I'm saying is enough with high dollar guns being the only ones being accurate and reliable.


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Char-Gar]

For the sake of information and not argument. I have been trying out a variety of 1911 style handguns at indoor ranges when they happen to have one available to rent or try out. None of these were what I would consider quality guns. As far as I know, none of them were modified but since they are by definition, used, I can't vouch for that. I only know I didn't do it to any of them.
All were fired with factory new hardball so as to reduce or eliminate problems with feed and function. Many had feed problems anyway. Others had accuracy issues. Some had both. I don't know why.
None of them were high dollar guns. I suspect the establishment owners didn't want to expose their better quality guns to people they weren't sure would handle them properly.
I can't say I am an expert semi auto shooter. I don't have any experience with them other than my Beretta 92FS. I don't have feed or accuracy problems with it and I don't have accuracy issues with my revolvers. But I am thinking about a 45ACP and I like the design of the 1911.
I don't want to modify a handgun to make it work. From what has been said here, I shouldn't need to. I am not and most likely will never be a good enough shot to even consider the super accurate custom guns. I can do well enough to shoot the groups I asked about in my original post. That level of accuracy in addition to reliability would serve my needs quite well.
Please keep the advice and suggestions coming gentlemen. I am learning a lot here.

I have never shot a rental gun, but have inspected a few. They are not cleaned and lubricated and often worn in one way or another. Throw in a junk magazine or one that has been ejected on a hard surface a few times and you have a recipe for what you experienced.

The original Browning design, if followed to the letter, is a very reliable design. A clean, properly lubricated, 1911 with quality ammo and good magazine will be 100% reliable and keep all its shots in 2 to 3 inches at 25 yards. Tightly fit match pistols will of course do much better.

[charlie b]

Ok, enough said. I inherited a Rand from my dad when he passed away. He said it was just a (rack gun) not accurate at all at distance. Had a big, too big for me plastic thumb-rest grips on it. But that's the way it's staying. I can put 6 holes in 8 and 9 ring at 25 yards with it. There's always a flyer. This is a gun that is at least 50 years old. So I guess what I'm saying is enough with high dollar guns being the only ones being accurate and reliable.


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Is your flier always the first or last round? First round fliers are fairly common with some semi-autos. For some the pistol slide does not 'reset' to the same place as it does when firing.

[XDROB]

I don't remember. I will have to bring it out first trip to range. And put a few rounds through her. Haven't been using it much because of her age. Want to be able to give it to my son in working order.
Funny the more I think about it. I'm past 50 and I know my father had it before I was born.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[pmer]

Funny thing today, I was heading out to try a new load of 200 SWCs in my new Ruger 1911 Commander that I traded in a few items for. You might remember that Commander/Officers thread from 1 or two months ago. My daughter is sitting around looking bored so I says do you want to try a couple shots? And to my surprise she said yes after a quick no. She's pretty green about it so we went through safety, sight picture, focus on the front sight. Grip hand and supporting hand. I grabbed some light shooting 185 grain loads and after a couple shots she is on target shooting a 1911 with a empty mag.

She seemed okay with what she learned with it so I tried the 200 SWC load. This load wasn't right and probably too long but she got to see several FTFs and learned what to do with a stoppage and the unload procedure. LOL...keep pointed in safe direction, drop the mag pull the slide eject the round. Drop the mag pull the slide eject the round. It really could not have happened at a better time.

I was using a Colt mag in the Ruger and took the last 4 out of the Colt mag and put them in a Ruger 1911 mag and they went through fine so my daughter even got to see what trying a different magazine can do. So in about 25 minutes she saw one go from good to bad and good again.

To me a good 1911 is built a little loose and has good magazines that are reliable. I have a couple Wilson 10 round mags and they seem to work good in a couple 1911s.

[charlie b]

I don't remember. I will have to bring it out first trip to range. And put a few rounds through her. Haven't been using it much because of her age. Want to be able to give it to my son in working order.
Funny the more I think about it. I'm past 50 and I know my father had it before I was born.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Not old enough to worry about, the gun that is. Mine was my grandfather's from WWI era. Has had many thousands of rounds through it and still shoots fine today. My grandfather even saved a stash of spare parts for it, including a couple of barrels. We are on the last barrel (third one). Still don't see any reason not to keep shooting it. I did save the original magazine for it cause it still had the lanyard loop on it. Fed with GI surplus mags these days.

[Char-Gar]

Not old enough to worry about, the gun that is. Mine was my grandfather's from WWI era. Has had many thousands of rounds through it and still shoots fine today. My grandfather even saved a stash of spare parts for it, including a couple of barrels. We are on the last barrel (third one). Still don't see any reason not to keep shooting it. I did save the original magazine for it cause it still had the lanyard loop on it. Fed with GI surplus mags these days.

I can think of one reason to stop shooting cherished heirloom 1911s made before 1947. Colt and WWII contractors could not hardened the slide without warping it, so they spot hardened the front 1/3 and the slide lock notch. The barrel recess lugs in the top of the slide were not hardened and that is where serious wear happens.

Starting in 1947 Colt started making "hard slides" that were entirely hardened. In the early 50's Colt started making replacement slides for the US military as the others were getting in bad shape. These replacement slides are marked 779013 on the left side.

[charlie b]

Mine has shown no issues with the slide and fitting to the 'new' barrels.

[Plate plinker]

Wilson Combat

Nighthawk :evil: Bill Wilson's former employees.

[tinsnips]

The ones I own are STI,Fusion,CZ I like them all . My friend has a dessert eagle that he loves.

[coatessey]

I found three of the CZ 1911A1 pistols on Gunbroker under $1k, one is $875 with free shipping all three NIB. If I was in the market for another 1911A1, THIS one would be my choice.

These are 100% made in USA pistols, with a match grade SS barrel, forged frame and forged slide, with what CZ says is an "improved" slide to frame fit, they are very well made and one of the better WWII style 1911A1 pistols that I have seen. Colt and Springfield both made their 1911A1 copies and they aren't anywhere near as authentic as the CZ. How do you improve on one of the best designs ever made? CZ did it with better slide to frame fit, a better barrel, and they designed their model with an easily changeable dovetail front sight.
Or for a little more money buy a Dan Wesson as they made the CZ 1911's.

[GhostHawk]

I only have one 1911, and it was bought to look, feel as much like a real WWII GI Issue colt 45 as I could afford. The ones that were actually there, saw service were selling for 2k.

Mine is a Springfield Armory, made in the mid 90's. Is bone stock, never been touched. Only shot and cleaned.

It shoots. As long as ammo is in the correct dimensions it has zero problems. I paid 500$ for it new old stock, never fired.

My father in law is a veteran, we were sitting one day talking, and I don't know why, he suddenly made some statement that rocked me. I had said something about Korea, and the Chosen Res trap.

He proceeded to tell me this story.

He was there running a D-6 cat in support of a rock crusher working on making gravel for an airstrip. He was returning to the gravel pit in a jeep, heard machine gun fire, heard bullets ripping into his jeep. Shoved his passenger out and bailed out himself. Jeep is torn to pieces and burns.

He spent that night in a bunker of sorts. It seems he was the crack shot of his little group. So He stood on the firing step, running the .30 caliber air cooled machine gun. Which he fired at Chinese running up the hill until it ran away. Barrel was so hot rounds cooked off as the breech slammed them home. He says he burned out 2 the two barrels he had for that machine gun. Then it was Garand time.

He had 2 guys running ammo for him. Once he switched to the Garand he had one guy sitting there loading M-bloc clips for him. He says in this matter of fact voice now quaking with age.

"I burned up 6 M1 Garand rifles that night. Shot them until they caught fire"

From what I can gather him and one other guy survived more or less intact. Everyone else in his little group was either dead or wounded. It seems they managed to finish the airfield and fly them out the next day.

Roger my father in law was drafted right out of High School. He had no desire to be there.
But he did what he had to do to survive. So when he expressed a wish, a desire to hold a GI issue 1911 again, well I did the best I could.

On the day I saw him next he was sitting in his chair. I opened the case, took it out. Handed it to him. He sat there for at least 45 minutes. Fingers slowly feeling their way over the gun. Hefted it a few times. Had tears in his eyes a few times.

It is my opinion that the gun was a key, a key which unlocked memories locked away in his mind for decades. Faces of old comrades in arms.

I sat there and said nothing.

Finally he looked at me and nodded. Ok, I'm done. He thanked me. Damm heavy ain't it?

LOL, here, and handed him a fully loaded mag, stick that in there. Near doubles the weight.

No he shook his head, don't tempt me.

No I don't have the one he fired. Or one of the Garands he burned up.
What I do have is Rogers Gun, and the story. His great grandchildren will hear it, when they are ready. We call it Rogers gun, and it is part of their inheritance. A gentle reminder to do what you must to survive to see the next dawn. And do it with as much class, integrity, and honesty as possible.

I don't shoot it much or often. But it will do the job.

[flyingrhino]

For a production gun that is as close to custom as you can get I don't think you can beat a Kimber. I have a few. I also have 1911's from others but when anyone shoots my 1911's, it's always my Kimbers they fall in love with. Price point is more than reasonable. Accurate and reliable out of the box. If you have several grand to spend then there are the top end customs. But I honestly don't think a Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat, or Les Baer will shoot any better than my Kimber Gold Match, at least not in my hands. And that is 1/3 the cost of the customs. I could buy a Wesson or Wilson or Baer, they are works of art. I just can't justify the cost when my Kimbers are SO sweet.

[tazman]

I am narrowing down my selection to Springfield Range officer or a Kimber Custom II. I realize there are different versions of each of these and have not had the time to research them properly yet.
Still looking for a range that has a rental I can try or some one local who has one I can borrow for a trial run.
No big hurry. I still haven't been able to completely justify getting another caliber to reload other than the fact that I just want one.

[RobS]

I am narrowing down my selection to Springfield Range officer or a Kimber Custom II. I realize there are different versions of each of these and have not had the time to research them properly yet.
Still looking for a range that has a rental I can try or some one local who has one I can borrow for a trial run.
No big hurry. I still haven't been able to completely justify getting another caliber to reload other than the fact that I just want one.

Good Choices on the two companies. Regards to having another caliber to reload for...............some may ask why and I say why not. Enjoy your time looking for that new 1911!

[Rdbronco]

Plus one on the Wilson, go top shelf and do not look back. In all my newer pistols freebore has been an issue. I tend to shoot the lead heavies as opposed to the copper condums......... ( I did not receive financial incentive from Douguy for this plug )

[fecmech]

Tazman--I bought a Springfield Mil-spec ( the one that had a slightly better front and rear sight) a few years back. Never had a bit of trouble with it, shot mainly Lyman 200 gr swc and Saeco 185 swc. As long as there was enough recoil to operate the slide full travel it function flawlessly. Accuracy at 25 yds was in the 2-3" range, it shot to the sights and the trigger wasn't half bad at 4 lbs. IMO you don't need to spend a bunch to get a decent 1911. If you are going to be a serious Bullseye competitor that's another story.