.22 rimfire case reforming

[shooterg]

I know it's ridiculous to reload .22s except for "just because" Haven't done any, not that desperate ! ( Guess I'm a hoarder as I always bought 22 in case lots ) . Did "reload" some primers a few years back just to see if they'd work.
The firing pin indentation on the rim seems to make rapid fire improbable with any reloads- could a jig setup be made to force the rims of empties back out with hydraulic pressure ?

Obviously I have too much time on my hands to even think about this !

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Well... Just dry-fire a fired case and compare the two indentations. Chamber pressure won't reduce the indentation even slightly, against the spring tension and inertia of the firing-pin. I think you would need a lot more hydraulic pressure than even workshop power-presses use.

It may not matter that much. This isn't the gun or ammunition you are going to be using for the game head or target match of a lifetime, and if you just load the thing as it is, the chance of hitting the unraised dent is minimal.

Do you plan on doing it with your own rimfire priming composition? Personally I wouldn't. A large pistol primer will slide down inside the rimfire case quite neatly, and maybe a centrefire converted rifle would have a powerful enough strike to ignite it, like the old inside primed centrefires. Maybe. You would need some sort of ring to be slipped down on top and epoxied or crimped to hold the primer, and I don't know any safe way of getting that out for a second reloading.

[17nut]

Can be done but with current prices and avaliability i think it is an exercise i futility.

http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Can be done but with current prices and avaliability i think it is an exercise i futility.


You shouldn't exaggerate. It isn't futile, quite. It is just that there is very little point in it.

Now if it were to make an inside lubed round for a slightly smaller calibre barrel...

[runfiverun]

to hydraulically punch the dent back out you'd need a 2 piece die so the rim was supported fully.
you can punch out cases that need 50+K to fire-form up to fit a die with just water and a punch, so this could be done.
you might crack some cases at the rim.

[Traffer]

I have done it many times. Been reloading 22lr for over a year now. (still experimenting, changing processes etc) There was a time that I resized the cases by having them in a die (did not support the rim diameter) then adding enough water to fill the case and driving a punch in the case with a hammer. It's hit and miss (pun intended) The primer dents come out somewhat. Depending how deep they are they may come out so that there is just a shadow of where they were. The problem is that the deeper dents drive the rim of the case out to a diameter that is way too big. I still use a process to resize the rim diameter. There are way too many steps to properly reload rim fire ammo. They can be reloaded to shoot in single shot guns well enough but to get them to fire reliably in an autoloader all the little problems must be ironed out. It is way harder to reload these little devils than it is center fire ammo. Even the ogive has to be exact or they will not feed. But still I plug on. Why? I just can't let a project get the best of me. Right now I am finishing the work on a crimp pull tension weight tester for the devils. In the book "Ammunition Making" by George E Frost, in chapter 12 titled "The .22 Match Cartridge" Frost writes about having to keep the crimp to hold the bullet at 45lbs to 55lbs of pull resistance. So that is the parameter that is necessary to get the devils to shoot consistently. I have already seen the effects of different crimp depths when testing. HUGE. With black powder, no problem. With smokeless powder a person would be changing powder every day trying to get something to shoot consistently. Anyway, yes you can get the dent out with hydraulic pressure, but because it is not feasible to apply that pressure slowly because of leakage, you must hit it with a blow to be effective. (the inside of a 22lr is a size 4 number drill. so it is easy enough to make a punch that will neatly fill the case.)

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you are inserting your own rimfire priming compound and spinning it into place, I don't suppose it requires the full amount of space all around the rim. If the thin bit ignites, it will ignite all the way around. But if you don't have confidence in that, it would probably be possible to make a simple steel tool to finish what the hydraulic pressure has started.

Stevens introduced the .22LR without the crimp, and I think the danger of rounds coming to pieces in a repeating action preceded smokeless as the reason for the crimp. I'm sure what you say about the need for a consistent crimp for accuracy is true of the .22LR as loaded nowadays. But it might be possible to devise loads, possibly duplex, which work without in single shot firearms.

[Traffer]

You bring up a very interesting idea about a steel tool to finish what the hydraulic process started. Removing the dent (especially where it dents out, increasing the radius of the head) is something that by necessity I have had to think much about. I no longer use the hydraulic method I described because it is way too time consuming. The reality is that you can reset the depth of the head including the dent with a simple punch and die. I have to inspect the cases and set the cases with excessive rim expanding dents aside to either not reload or to add another process of removing the diameter expanding dent. Used cases are so plentiful that I simply do not use the ones with big dents. I could also place the cases in a prioritized shell holder that would reform the head diameter as I resize the rest of the case. Eventually this is probably the route that I would go.
I originally misread your comment. I thought you were referring to modifying the system in which the rimfire cartridge ignites. I have thought of this also. One of the basic drawbacks for rim fire ammo is the thinness of the brass. How could the brass thickness be increased? I believe if a ring of steel were placed inside of the rim the thickness of the brass could be increased. I don't really have the tooling to test this idea. But if it did work, higher pressure rimfire could be manufactured and we might see a resurgence of rimfire design. I would love to work with larger caliber rimfire. Like maybe the old Vetterli rifle. But staying on topic here, the cases of rimfire are the weakest link for reloading rimfire. The best solution is to not reload them. Seriously. Before overzealous hazmat laws and other anti-gun legislation here is the US we could buy primed cases as you are aware. I had the great fortune of finding a good amount of these for my own purposes. So I have been focusing on making the ideal projectile for new primed cases. I have a method of reusing old brass but again way too time consuming. I will go back to that part of the puzzle after I am satisfied with making match grade ammunition with primed cases. This is why I am going into things like "pull pressure" which is described in Frost's book.


If you are inserting your own rimfire priming compound and spinning it into place, I don't suppose it requires the full amount of space all around the rim. If the thin bit ignites, it will ignite all the way around. But if you don't have confidence in that, it would probably be possible to make a simple steel tool to finish what the hydraulic pressure has started.

Stevens introduced the .22LR without the crimp, and I think the danger of rounds coming to pieces in a repeating action preceded smokeless as the reason for the crimp. I'm sure what you say about the need for a consistent crimp for accuracy is true of the .22LR as loaded nowadays. But it might be possible to devise loads, possibly duplex, which work without in single shot firearms.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You bring up a very interesting idea about a steel tool to finish what the hydraulic process started. Removing the dent (especially where it dents out, increasing the radius of the head) is something that by necessity I have had to think much about. I no longer use the hydraulic method I described because it is way too time consuming. The reality is that you can reset the depth of the head including the dent with a simple punch and die. I have to inspect the cases and set the cases with excessive rim expanding dents aside to either not reload or to add another process of removing the diameter expanding dent. Used cases are so plentiful that I simply do not use the ones with big dents. I could also place the cases in a prioritized shell holder that would reform the head diameter as I resize the rest of the case. Eventually this is probably the route that I would go.
I originally misread your comment. I thought you were referring to modifying the system in which the rimfire cartridge ignites. I have thought of this also. One of the basic drawbacks for rim fire ammo is the thinness of the brass. How could the brass thickness be increased? I believe if a ring of steel were placed inside of the rim the thickness of the brass could be increased. I don't really have the tooling to test this idea. But if it did work, higher pressure rimfire could be manufactured and we might see a resurgence of rimfire design. I would love to work with larger caliber rimfire. Like maybe the old Vetterli rifle. But staying on topic here, the cases of rimfire are the weakest link for reloading rimfire. The best solution is to not reload them. Seriously. Before overzealous hazmat laws and other anti-gun legislation here is the US we could buy primed cases as you are aware. I had the great fortune of finding a good amount of these for my own purposes. So I have been focusing on making the ideal projectile for new primed cases. I have a method of reusing old brass but again way too time consuming. I will go back to that part of the puzzle after I am satisfied with making match grade ammunition with primed cases. This is why I am going into things like "pull pressure" which is described in Frost's book.


You might be able to improve the dent situation with a well shaped and well located firing-pin for the first firing. It doesn't need to be sharp. Well do I remember the flat square tip on my first rifle, an accurate but otherwise unloveable tube-magazine Cooey, and the shallow dent it made. But it worked reliably on everything except a line of Soviet steel cased rimfires that were available at the time.

The pin shouldn't be sharp, and it shouldn't overlap onto the edge of the rim. Besides making a piece jut out from the rim, it will be crushing nothing but brass, and reducing its impact slightly inboard.

The tool could be as simple as a nail-like object to be held in a vice. Put the case over it and hit it with a soft mallet, driving the edge of the "nail-head" into the indentation. But a pair of pliers could be modified, one jaw with a trough and the other jaw small enough to go into the case, with a little tooth to drive out the indentation. You can get parallel or Maun pliers with one jaw concave and the other convex, which meet you halfway. But cheaper ones would do, and could be filed.

[Multigunner]

My Ruger Single Six in .22 Magnum has a home made flat nosed firing pin, and the breech plug is recessed a bit as well. The result of these features along with a light mainspring is that while ignition has so far been 100% the rims of expended cases show very little firing pin indentation. I could probably reload these cases fairly easily compared to .22 Long Rifle cases. No need for a heel base boolit either.
If one wished to they could rechamber a .22 LR rifle to .22 WRF or Remington .22 Special (identical chambers) and use once fired .22 Magnum cases trimmed to fit. The .22 WRF ballistics aren't much if any hotter than that of modern high velocity .22 LR.
The .22 Winchester Auto case length is another option, being no longer than the LR case and should feed well through most .22 LR repeating rifles.
A dedicated rifle built on a Rolling Block or falling Block action would allow one to make sure of the orientation of the rim of his reloads and adjust spring tension to give good ignition without damaging the rim too much. The thicker walled cases compared to the LR cases could last for a dozen or so reloads.

I've read that when the .22 Magnum first came out that Winchester sold empty primed cases in bulk to allow shooters to work up the most accurate loads for their particular rifle. When these were available owners of .22 WRF and Auto chambered rifles would buy these cases and trim them to fit their chambers.

[Traffer]

Thanks, those are both great ideas. I had not thought of either of them. First, I have been working on rebuilding a bolt on an old Remington 514. I had reworked the bolt such that I had to reshape the tip of the firing pin. I made it sharp. I will change that now. Also, never thought of the simple concave/convex pliers idea. I may try that also. I would rather however come up with a one step process to resize the case and remove the dent at the same time. One idea I had was to slightly chamfer or bullnose the tip of the sizing punch with a ring of hard wire at the end which would expand when pressing or tapping the punch in. Causing it to expand into the primer gap of the rim. There would be some difficult problems with that for me to deal with, mostly the very fine area that we are dealing with.(Included some pictures of a case I sliced open). One other thing, I use cases that I find at the range. They are from all different guns. In order to use these I'm going to need to make a case sizer that will remove the outer bulges of the dents that make the diameter of the rim too wide to fit into most guns. The inside doesn't really matter that much. In fact in my earlier work I have found that when you resize the outer portion of the head the dent tends to open up also. Especially after having sized the rest of the case. (These are high res pictures, You an enlarge the heck out of them to see the very fine detail.)

190448190449


You might be able to improve the dent situation with a well shaped and well located firing-pin for the first firing. It doesn't need to be sharp. Well do I remember the flat square tip on my first rifle, an accurate but otherwise unloveable tube-magazine Cooey, and the shallow dent it made. But it worked reliably on everything except a line of Soviet steel cased rimfires that were available at the time.

The pin shouldn't be sharp, and it shouldn't overlap onto the edge of the rim. Besides making a piece jut out from the rim, it will be crushing nothing but brass, and reducing its impact slightly inboard.

The tool could be as simple as a nail-like object to be held in a vice. Put the case over it and hit it with a soft mallet, driving the edge of the "nail-head" into the indentation. But a pair of pliers could be modified, one jaw with a trough and the other jaw small enough to go into the case, with a little tooth to drive out the indentation. You can get parallel or Maun pliers with one jaw concave and the other convex, which meet you halfway. But cheaper ones would do, and could be filed.

[Traffer]

Thanks for that interesting post. And my apologies to "Shooterg" for hijacking his thread. We are staying pretty much on topic though. Another project that is currently on the back burner is a simple single shot 22Mag or 22WMR. I have a Heritage 22 revolver much like the Ruger single six that has a 22WMR cylinder along with the regular 22lr. I do not want to use this to experiment with reloading 22wmr (I had originally stated in this sentence 22WRF which was a typo) so I am building the 22Mag rifle for testing reloads. It should be fairly simple to migrate to reloading magnums after reloading 22lr because the take the same bullet (if you want) I might use slightly harder lead but should be pretty much the same. In the other operations of reloading it just needs slightly larger dies. Of which I make myself anyway. I am anxious to start reloading 22 mag because of the obvious crazy price of these rounds. I hope also to eventually be able to make match grade ammunition for the Mag.


My Ruger Single Six in .22 Magnum has a home made flat nosed firing pin, and the breech plug is recessed a bit as well. The result of these features along with a light mainspring is that while ignition has so far been 100% the rims of expended cases show very little firing pin indentation. I could probably reload these cases fairly easily compared to .22 Long Rifle cases. No need for a heel base boolit either.
If one wished to they could rechamber a .22 LR rifle to .22 WRF or Remington .22 Special (identical chambers) and use once fired .22 Magnum cases trimmed to fit. The .22 WRF ballistics aren't much if any hotter than that of modern high velocity .22 LR.
The .22 Winchester Auto case length is another option, being no longer than the LR case and should feed well through most .22 LR repeating rifles.
A dedicated rifle built on a Rolling Block or falling Block action would allow one to make sure of the orientation of the rim of his reloads and adjust spring tension to give good ignition without damaging the rim too much. The thicker walled cases compared to the LR cases could last for a dozen or so reloads.

I've read that when the .22 Magnum first came out that Winchester sold empty primed cases in bulk to allow shooters to work up the most accurate loads for their particular rifle. When these were available owners of .22 WRF and Auto chambered rifles would buy these cases and trim them to fit their chambers.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I always think it is a great pity that the inside lubed .22WRF didn't become the standard rimfire round. It had the reputation of never having had the same accuracy of the .22LR, but I believe that with the same sort of development work it could have exceeded it. I actually don't know if the .22WMR is crimped onto the bullet, but being of case internal diameter means it is, at worst, the sort of crimp a handloader could easily give it.

An interesting equivalent to the .22WMR was the .22CCM, or Cooper Centerfire Magnum, which was close to a centrefire version, and for which various rimfire rifles and pistols were converted. Cases are the problem. Turned brass cases were found to give unacceptably short life, although this might be somewhat improved by making it a close match to the chamber. I can no longer find the Schroader Bullet Works (including under Schroeder, which Internet Explorer suggested I try), but I believe their cases were made from .22 Hornet. That would be a fairly extreme sizing and turning job for the amateur, but it could be done.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?12805-Bullshop-22-CCM

https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/22-CCM-22-Cooper-Centerfire-Magnum-Accurate-Loading-Guide-2/4751

I mentioned my belief that a large pistol primer could be positioned inside the LR-diameter case, and probably ignited through the extra layer of brass. An automated repetition machining business could also produce a large quantity of little brass rings with a pocket to hold the small pistol primer and its anvil. It might even be removable for reloading if a light enough crimp would hold it. Perhaps something could also be done with .22LR cases de-rimmed as for swaging them into bullet jackets, but inserted inside the .22WMR case.

[Traffer]

I'm sorry that I do not proof read my posts well. I have incorrectly stated 22WRF several times where I meant 22WMR. I have edited my previous post to reflect 22WMR where I had originally written 22wrf. I am however grateful to Ballistics in Scotland for the great insight into the 22 WRF. Indeed it is too bad that it died out. I have recently been looking at used 17 HMR cases (another one ripe for typo's, since there is 17HMR, 17WSM and 17 HM2) that I have found at ranges. I trimmed a couple 17HMRs which are necked down 22WMRs. Basically I cut them off at the beginning of the sizing of the neck. This left me with a 22WMR-short. Which appears to be exactly what a 22WRF is. I thought of reloading these cut down 17HMRs. I do not believe that the modern loading of 22WMRs use any where near the entire capacity of the case. So though these cases are short, they should be able to be loaded as hot as normal sized 22WMRs. As soon as I get my 22WMR rifle built (which I am building expressly for testing 22WMR reloading) I am going to test these 22WMR-shorts. It would be interesting to have 22WRF sized rounds that shoot with the ballistics of the 22WMR. Then truly we can resurrect the 22wmr and create even more delightful confusion for novices like myself. hah

[GONRA]

GONRA remembers "Between The Wars" German (RWS?) "Inside Primed" center fire .22 Long Rifle ammo.
Should hava specimen in my modest cartridge collection. These were destined for some subcaliber useage.

[Traffer]

Very cool. Actually it probably wouldn't have been to hard to make something like that. Just a real tall 22cal shotgun primer with powder and a slug in it. I would like to see pictures of that though.


GONRA remembers "Between The Wars" German (RWS?) "Inside Primed" center fire .22 Long Rifle ammo.
Should hava specimen in my modest cartridge collection. These were destined for some subcaliber useage.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

GONRA remembers "Between The Wars" German (RWS?) "Inside Primed" center fire .22 Long Rifle ammo.
Should hava specimen in my modest cartridge collection. These were destined for some subcaliber useage.

Yes, and there were versions of the .22 Long and Short with conventionally inserted primers. The Long appears virtually identical in dimensions to the rimfire, but Jakob Brandt, in his book, gives the Short slightly larger diameters, correctly or not I don't know. While use in a rifle chamber insert makes a lot of sense, he doesn't mention it, and says they were revolver cartridges.

He also illustrates the .22LR, but in this case it was inside primed, with a deeper cannelure all the way around than was used in the much earlier American inside primed rounds, and deeper, I think, than was needed. Maybe the intention was to stop people reloading the thing. I am certain that it came long after inside priming had disappeared in the US, purely on the basis that there was no .22LR rimfire to base it on until the 1880s. Brandt says the .22LR centrefire was, unlike the others, originated as a subcalibre adapter round but was also used in revolvers. Only the firing-pin would have to be different, and it would offer some advantages over the rimfire. The latter may still have been copper at the time, and more prone to jamming, and the inside primer could surely have reinforced the head against greater pressure. I don't know if it was loaded that way though.

There was another subcalibre centrefire which I believe is still made today, the 4mm. This tiny cartridge had a swelling around the primer to do duty as an elongated rim, and contained no other propellant. As well as adapter tubes there were specially made rifles for its indoor use. Some had a breech mechanism near the front end of a rifle-length dummy barrel, and were fired by a firing-pin running most of its length. This to me suggests that the extremely momentary nature of the primer impulse was found to sometimes leave the bullet lodged in a long rifled barrel.

[BAGTIC]

A few years ago there was an inside lubed .22 rim fire by Winchester. It was promoted as the 22 ILARCO. It used the same head and rim as the .22 magnum, was trimmed to the same length as the .22 LR and used a .224 diameter bullet. I was disappointed that it did not catch on as I am convinced that an inside lubed case would function better is repeaters as well as being more accurate.

[BAGTIC]

I believe resort to hydraulics is unnecessary for reforming the rim. It could be more easily done mechanically by roll forming the rim from the inside. The roll forming would probably also help remove some of the old primer compound.

[Traffer]

Do you mean have a tiny wheel on the end of some type of punch that would roll against the inside of the rim opening. That opening is very very narrow. But it could be done. Good idea. Worth considering.

I believe resort to hydraulics is unnecessary for reforming the rim. It could be more easily done mechanically by roll forming the rim from the inside. The roll forming would probably also help remove some of the old primer compound.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't believe the ILRCO round ever reached the market. Winchester made it on the request of the Illinois Arms Company, who had designed an automatic carbine with an enormous drum magazine around the .22LR cartridge length, and found that outside lubrication made it too prone to stoppages. I think they pinned their main hopes on a full auto version for law enforcement, and it is hard to think of a law that that exactly fits. Even in an exceedingly violent riot, there are always going to be a few journalists or Ivy League sightseers in the crowd.

Although the .22WCF is usually considered obsolete, CCI made some not long ago. At a guess it would be expensive and hard to find. They loaded it with a jacketed bullet although they claimed only 1300ft./sec., and said it wasn't recommended for pistols as a result, since they often had tighter bore dimensions. That seems curious logic. I can remember when Eley High Velocity .22LR, in the 60s, claimed a muzzle velocity of 1400ft./sec. with a 40gr. solid or 37gr. hollow point bullet of conventional LR design. Their claimed velocity has since reduced, and I don't know whether it was a genuine design change or driven by the introduction of the hobby-priced chronograph. But the original version was barely detectably inferior in accuracy, with the Brno .22 sporter I bought in 1970, to the target rounds they still sell around the world. I can't see why CCI needed to go jacketed, which possibly killed the chances of manufacturers bring out new .22WRF firearms.

[BAGTIC]

The 22 LR and the 22 WMR do not use the same size bullet. The 22 WMR is larger in diameter and the 22 LR uses a heeled bullet. They are close enough that the larger bullet will pass through the smaller barrel but the smaller 22 LR bullet would be a lose fit that might or might not expand enough to obturate. Furthermore but its shorter bearing length would probably reduce its accuracy as could yaw while still in the barrel.

[Traffer]

The 22wmr bullet is .224". The 22 long rifle bullet is from .223" to .2255" That would put the 22WMR diameter squarely in the mid range of 22lr. There are several differences in the bullets themselves though. The LR uses a rebated hollow base bullet. It is rebated because the case of the 22lr is the same diameter as the bearing surface of the bullet. The 22lr is greased or externally lubricated. because the bearing surface has to be lubricated. The 22WMR is not rebated because the case is larger than the bullet allowing the whole bullet to fit into the case. It is also not greased or externally lubricated because the bearing surface is inside the case (and so is the lube) Other wise they are the same diameter and same weight. As I swage fro the 22lr it is easy enough to change my dies to make the 22WMR bullets from the same nose portion of the die. I only need to change the base punch to not create the rebated portion. It is actually much easier to make a 22WMR bullet than it is to make a 22lr bullet for that reason. I also powder coat the bullets. Creating a bullet that needs no lube either interior of exterior. Here is a picture of some of my rejected swaged bullets for the 22lr. You can see the rebated area of the bullets. That is not necessary in the 22WMR. All I have to do is continue the same larger size diameter all the way to the heel and presto I have the right shape and size for the 22WMR.
191023


The 22 LR and the 22 WMR do not use the same size bullet. The 22 WMR is larger in diameter and the 22 LR uses a heeled bullet. They are close enough that the larger bullet will pass through the smaller barrel but the smaller 22 LR bullet would be a lose fit that might or might not expand enough to obturate. Furthermore but its shorter bearing length would probably reduce its accuracy as could yaw while still in the barrel.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, Traffer is right. The difference in bullet diameter is very slight, and it is the case diameter that is different. The .22LR bullet is more tolerant of being reduced by slightly tighter bore dimension, and often is, because of its softness and the reduced base being less likely to suffer asymmetrical finning. But that is once the bullet starts to move.

Various manufacturers have made dry lubed, non-tacky .22LR rounds, which begs the question why they aren't all like that. I am not sure whether powder coating etc. would give the highest target-shooting accuracy, or enough rapid fire, especially with high velocity rounds, to heat the bore surface. But I am pretty sure its advantages are worthwhile for the average sporting shooter.

[dhenry132]

I do it for fun

[EDG]

I have reloaded the .22 WMR after a fashion. I have a 640K Mossberg in that caliber and its accuracy is fairly erratic with different factory rounds.

I can normally get decent groups at 50 yards but never really good groups at 100 meters.

I pulled the heavily crimped Winchester 40 grain FMJ bullets using a shell holder center hole to give full rim support.

Then I resized the neck followed by expanding it with a long tapered expander. The long tapered expander allowed me to adjust the amount of expansion by varying the depth.

Then I replaced the original powder charge and loaded either 40 grn Sierra Hornet or 45 Grn Sierra Hornet bullets.

At this point I tinkered with the seating depth.

If you examine the SAAMI ammo and chamber drawings you will find that the chambers are pretty large and sloppy for the ammo.
Both the chamber diameter and the length to the lands can be much bigger/longer than the factory ammo.

So I loaded the Sierra bullets longer than factory ammo. I got groups significantly better with the Sierra bullets but I feel a custom match grade chamber reamer is needed to deliver best accuracy.
In addition the 40 grain bullet expanded the case much the same as factory ammo. The heavier 45 grain bullet caused about .003 more expansion of the case ahead of the rim.

My rifle has one turn in 16" twist rifling and at times gave decent accuracy with most lighter 22 WMR bulleted ammo. However the Federal 50 grain lead bullet round gave awful accuracy with most 100 meter groups in the 3.5" range.

To pursue this I thought about a match grade action and barrel with a match quality chamber. To use a factory rifle with the SAAMI chamber would potentially be a huge time waster since you would be battling the sloppy chamber. Pulling bullets, resizing the cases and reseating the bullets takes a significant investment in both money and time for shootable amounts of ammo.

[Traffer]

22LR are crimped heavily. In the book "Ammunition Making" by George E Frost, in chapter 12 titled "The 22 Match Cartridge" Frost explains that the crimp "Pull Weight" is critical with modern powders. He and his guys developed match grade 22lr with 45 to 50 lbs of crimp pull weight. Meaning it takes 45 to 50 lbs to pull the bullet from the case. Because modern powder needs compression to burn properly, the bullets must be tight enough to begin that pressure while still in the shell. I have built a crimp weight tester so I can replicate that consistent heavy crimp. I believe that the 22WMR would have the same requirement. Hence the very hard to pull bullets. I am in the process of swaging and powder coating bullets for the 22lr. Once I get the process nailed down I am going to start reloading 22WMR. Concerning the 50 grain bullets you mention, I just read somewhere that the heavy bullets will not fly straight with 1/16 twist. It takes a 1/12 or tighter to get good flight on the heavier bullets.


I have reloaded the .22 WMR after a fashion. I have a 640K Mossberg in that caliber and its accuracy is fairly erratic with different factory rounds.

I can normally get decent groups at 50 yards but never really good groups at 100 meters.

I pulled the heavily crimped Winchester 40 grain FMJ bullets using a shell holder center hole to give full rim support.

Then I resized the neck followed by expanding it with a long tapered expander. The long tapered expander allowed me to adjust the amount of expansion by varying the depth.

Then I replaced the original powder charge and loaded either 40 grn Sierra Hornet or 45 Grn Sierra Hornet bullets.

At this point I tinkered with the seating depth.

If you examine the SAAMI ammo and chamber drawings you will find that the chambers are pretty large and sloppy for the ammo.
Both the chamber diameter and the length to the lands can be much bigger/longer than the factory ammo.

So I loaded the Sierra bullets longer than factory ammo. I got groups significantly better with the Sierra bullets but I feel a custom match grade chamber reamer is needed to deliver best accuracy.
In addition the 40 grain bullet expanded the case much the same as factory ammo. The heavier 45 grain bullet caused about .003 more expansion of the case ahead of the rim.

My rifle has one turn in 16" twist rifling and at times gave decent accuracy with most lighter 22 WMR bulleted ammo. However the Federal 50 grain lead bullet round gave awful accuracy with most 100 meter groups in the 3.5" range.

To pursue this I thought about a match grade action and barrel with a match quality chamber. To use a factory rifle with the SAAMI chamber would potentially be a huge time waster since you would be battling the sloppy chamber. Pulling bullets, resizing the cases and reseating the bullets takes a significant investment in both money and time for shootable amounts of ammo.

[EDG]

I believe that the crimp is required to keep a .22 LR round from coming apart. To develop higher pressure you can easily add more powder without resorting to a crimp. You add more powder to do this with .22 LR except the resulting round would not withstand feeding in repeaters or being carried in your pockets.
My first ever reload was a .22 LR that was pulled with my teeth when I was about 13 or 14. I pulled 2 rounds and dumped the powder from both into one case and fired it. '
I can tell you for sure that it does not take 50 lbs to pull a .22 LR bullet.
In addition me and thousands of bench rest shooters and BPCR shooters have been shooting top performing loads with no crimp for more than 1/2 century.
Millions of rounds firing .224 caliber bullets have been fired in bench rest competition with no crimp. I see no reason why .22 LR ammo cannot be designed to work without a crimp other than the need to keep it assembled during handling, shipping and feeding.


22LR are crimped heavily. In the book "Ammunition Making" by George E Frost, in chapter 12 titled "The 22 Match Cartridge" Frost explains that the crimp "Pull Weight" is critical with modern powders. He and his guys developed match grade 22lr with 45 to 50 lbs of crimp pull weight. Meaning it takes 45 to 50 lbs to pull the bullet from the case. Because modern powder needs compression to burn properly, the bullets must be tight enough to begin that pressure while still in the shell. I have built a crimp weight tester so I can replicate that consistent heavy crimp. I believe that the 22WMR would have the same requirement. Hence the very hard to pull bullets. I am in the process of swaging and powder coating bullets for the 22lr. Once I get the process nailed down I am going to start reloading 22WMR. Concerning the 50 grain bullets you mention, I just read somewhere that the heavy bullets will not fly straight with 1/16 twist. It takes a 1/12 or tighter to get good flight on the heavier bullets.

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hywqq6isibwusw/Ammunition%20Making1%20%28Frost%29-146.jpg?dl=0




I believe that the crimp is required to keep a .22 LR round from coming apart. To develop higher pressure you can easily add more powder without resorting to a crimp. You add more powder to do this with .22 LR except the resulting round would not withstand feeding in repeaters or being carried in your pockets.
My first ever reload was a .22 LR that was pulled with my teeth when I was about 13 or 14. I pulled 2 rounds and dumped the powder from both into one case and fired it. '
I can tell you for sure that it does not take 50 lbs to pull a .22 LR bullet.
In addition me and thousands of bench rest shooters and BPCR shooters have been shooting top performing loads with no crimp for more than 1/2 century.
Millions of rounds firing .224 caliber bullets have been fired in bench rest competition with no crimp. I see no reason why .22 LR ammo cannot be designed to work without a crimp other than the need to keep it assembled during handling, shipping and feeding.