K38 accuracy expectations?

[selmerfan]

A few years back I bought a 6" K38 Masterpiece (Pre-14 - serial puts it at 1948, IIRC). It's definitely not a collector, but in original condition. Bore is good, all parts match serial numbers. I bought it because I like to shoot and .22 LR ammo was through the roof. The local police chief asked me if I had any use for about 100 pounds of 9mm brass and 3 or 4 pounds of Bullseye powder - leftovers from when they loaded their own range ammo. He would have had to pay to dispose of it. So I ended up with it. After I sold the brass, I had enough money to make it worth getting the K38 to go with the Bullseye and I figured I could load at least 7000 rounds for super-cheap because the powder was free.

I found a sleeve of 5000 Rem 1 1/2 primers for $.02/primer including shipping and bought a 10 cavity H&G #51 155 SWC mold for a good price and 1000 pcs of 1x fired Federal brass. I've been having a ball shooting this thing over the last few years. Oddly enough, I haven't used ANY of the Bullseye yet - I found some W231 for $15/pound and I've gone through a pound of that. But I never really put this thing on paper. I just cast the SWC boolits, lubed with Lotak and sized to .358", put 3.5 gr of W231 behind them and went out and shot steel from 25 yds to 100 yds. I did pick up both a set of target grips and Pachmayr grips. I'm not a fan of the Pachmayr, but it's been a couple years since I tried them. Maybe I should give them a run again.

I'm not a true handgun wizard by any means (I'm darn good with an 18" barreled TC Encore - but that doesn't really count here) and this is my first (and only) revolver. Today I went out and decided to put it on paper off-hand at 30 feet. I expected somewhere in the 2" group range. It was waaayyy bigger than that. As in, I might have put 12 shots onto an 8 1/2 x11 sheet of paper. I was shocked that I hit steel as well as I do! I had a few loads with 5 gr. of HS-6 behind them to try out also. Groups shrunk to what I expected - I was just making a big hole in the target. But the HS-6 is dirty - doesn't completely burn. But the accuracy was closer to what I hoped.

After doing a bunch of reading, it sounds like I should probably be shooting 148 gr. WC like an H&G #50 rather than H&G #51. All I'll ever do with this gun is shoot steel, paper, and if the accuracy is there, rabbits. I have 300 148 WC boolits on the way from a member here at CB that I'm trading for .44 Mag brass, so I'll have enough to do some comparisons. All of this leads me to some questions.

1. What kind of accuracy should I expect from a K38 Masterpiece in good condition at 30 feet? 25 yds? 50 yds?

2. What kind of boolit will get me the best accuracy? (I think I know the answer to this one...)

3. Is my H&G #51 a boolit I should even be using in this gun? Or is it more of a .357 Mag boolit?

4. Should I just be tumble lubing boolits in 45/45/10 or BLL? Running all of them through the Lyman 4500 is getting to be an odious task.

5. How much crimp should I be using on .38 Spec. target loads? I'm currently using only enough roll crimp to remove the flare and slightly curve the mouth into the crimp groove. Not heavy by any means.

6. Should I be using the Bullseye powder? I've got several good options. Bullseye, 700x, WST, Clays, Red Dot, and Unique

7. What other suggestions do you have? I like precision - I'm an accuracy nut with rifles. But this thing is sooooo much fun to shoot that I want to get the most out of it that I can. And should I have someone do action work on it? The trigger in single action is fantastic. I'm not sure I'd want it any lighter and there is zero creep. I'm getting better at shooting double-action, but I'm not good enough or experienced enough to know what it "good" for a double-action. For me, 6 shots on the 12" plate as fast as I can acquire target and pull the trigger at 15 yds makes me happy. I haven't tried double-action rapid fire on paper.

[tazman]

I own a K38 that matches yours almost exactly. With properly sized boolits, it shoots better than I can hold even with a rest.
I have seen better shots than I am shoot my revolver into 2 inch groups at 25 yards.
Mine likes full wadcutters, semi-wadcutters, and round nose ammunition with a slight preference for 358311 round nose boolits. It likes almost anything.
With the semi-wadcutters and roundnose boolits it does better with full power loads. With full wadcutters, I load light charges for ease of handling and punching paper.
I tumble lube all my boolits and size them at .358.
Any of the powders you mention should work fine.
I crimp all my 38 special loads but not heavily. Just enough to keep the boolits from sliding in the cases under recoil.
Enjoy your revolver, it should be a good one.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Hey selmerfan....I'll give you my $0.02 worth. I used to shoot the Police Practical Pistol Course with a Model 14 6". This involved shooting at 7, 15, 25, and 50 yards, and I saw many perfect targets that were just one big ragged hole. It got to where the matches were decided on how many "Xs" there were, as all of them were in the 10 ring. The standard load was a 148 gr. hollow based wadcutter, although the 148 gr. double end wadcutter would do about as well. The powder was Bullseye, 2.5 gr. It is my personal belief that nothing will out perform this load for accuracy, although there might be a couple that will equal it. So--very accurate. The bullets were not tumble lubed, they had grease grooves filled with lube. Although there is a belief that "wadcutter brass" is important to the formula of accuracy, I never found it to be so. All brass was used, loaded with the same powder and bullets, and as it all passed through the same barrel a difference in accuracy, if there was one, was never noticed. Your level of crimp sounds about perfect.

[selmerfan]

Thanks, gentlemen! I had read that I shouldn't use max .38 Special loads in the K38. And definitely not +P loads. Maybe I should try getting the SWC loads a little toward the maximum side. I'm using Lyman data. I was using 4 gr of W231 for a long time until I saw that it was over Hodgdon's Max load. I think the accuracy was better at 4 gr. Today was the first time I shot the 3.5 gr W231 loads. Definitely less recoil. All are being loaded on a Dillon 550c. Because I got sick of loading for this gun on a single stage. So much for saving money! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[badbob454]

here is an article of the accuracy python vs a k38 , looks like a great shooter/


http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/09/range-report-pristine-python-vs-k38.html

[Scharfschuetze]

I think it not unreasonable to expect 2" groups at 25 yards with well crafted ammo.

I generally shoot the classic and match winning load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain HBWC sparked by a Remington 1 1/2 primer. I've experimented with both roll and taper crimps on target wadcutters and I'm not sure if either has an advantage over the other. I usually just go with a moderate roll crimp, but my last batch of a thousand or so rounds use a taper crimp. If I do my part, the revolver and HBWC load will hold the 10 ring easily through 50 yards on the NRA targets for those ranges.

These are 25 yard targets shot with the above load. The groups are high as the revolver's sights are set for 50 yards.

[MT Gianni]

Your k frame if made after the mid 50's should have been heat treated to take +P loads. You also have no reason to fire them. Mine likes 358477 over a max load of Unique, 2.7 -3.0 gr BE and a wadcutter with only one groove lubed. Cast them as soft as possible, I have used dental lead only with HB wadcutters with great results.
I would begin by benching loads to see what they will do and letting technique bring the groups together for the offhand shooting.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Break out the Bullseye.
This is where it excels. Target 38s.
Ive experimented with 4 of your powders, Bullseye, 700x, Red Dot and Unique. I found their velocity spread due to powder powder position to be in that order with Bullseye being the best and 700x close to it. Ball powders were the worst.

Bench rest it and work at developing your consistent grip on the bench. Your grip on the gun is far more of a player than your load.

As for my results with K-Frames from the 60's and 70's, 2 inches at 25 yards is doable with any of them but it's a struggle. It's more due to my hands than my loads. Good days, lots of 2" or just under groups from the bench or sitting on the ground resting forearms on knees. Most days, a few honest 2" groups mixed in with lots running 2 to 6".

[6bg6ga]

I have to disagree with one thing right off the bat. If your gun doesn't have a +P rating do not shoot +P loads in it. This is general knowledge and can be checked by opening up your copy of "Basics of Pistol Shooting" the NRA guide. Open your guide to page 63 under ammunition safety. Quote " Cartridges designated +P and +P+ are loaded to higher pressures than standard cartridges, and must only be used in guns certified for them. Check the markings on the gun , the pistols owners manual, or contact the manufacturer to verify that your gun can safely fire +P or + P+ cartridges.

You will not find +P rating on this pistol nor will you find a reference to it in the owners manual. Nor is it strong enough to use +P loads in it. I watched my father run +P loads in his K38 only to beat the hell out of it. So, having some personal experience and seeing a K38 badly beat to hell as a result of the "I know more than you do type of thinking" I highly suggest that you simply stick to loads rated as stock that the K38 will handle.

As to accuracy... there is no absolute most accurate bullet for a particular pistol. I've personally witnessed a lot of deviation in accuracy between 3) identical pistols of which all were the same age and model and all 3 shot different and or liked a different load.

I suggest that you do like the old timers used to do and that is work up a load step by step. Load a few with X number of grains of a particular powder and note the accuracy. Adjust u or down to obtain the best load for your particular gun in question.

[44man]

The K38 is a wonderful revolver and does amazing things like the K22. I no longer have either but it is always your loading at the bench and for the .22, the rounds you buy.
I am sorry but you must do some work.
The gun will do anything but you will be the weak link. Your ability to shoot is a part of it but more important is what you feed the gun.

[selmerfan]

I have to disagree with one thing right off the bat. If your gun doesn't have a +P rating do not shoot +P loads in it. This is general knowledge and can be checked by opening up your copy of "Basics of Pistol Shooting" the NRA guide. Open your guide to page 63 under ammunition safety. Quote " Cartridges designated +P and +P+ are loaded to higher pressures than standard cartridges, and must only be used in guns certified for them. Check the markings on the gun , the pistols owners manual, or contact the manufacturer to verify that your gun can safely fire +P or + P+ cartridges.

You will not find +P rating on this pistol nor will you find a reference to it in the owners manual. Nor is it strong enough to use +P loads in it. I watched my father run +P loads in his K38 only to beat the hell out of it. So, having some personal experience and seeing a K38 badly beat to hell as a result of the "I know more than you do type of thinking" I highly suggest that you simply stick to loads rated as stock that the K38 will handle.

As to accuracy... there is no absolute most accurate bullet for a particular pistol. I've personally witnessed a lot of deviation in accuracy between 3) identical pistols of which all were the same age and model and all 3 shot different and or liked a different load.

I suggest that you do like the old timers used to do and that is work up a load step by step. Load a few with X number of grains of a particular powder and note the accuracy. Adjust u or down to obtain the best load for your particular gun in question. I'm not sure where you picked up the implication that I was shooting +P loads or intend to shoot +P loads with my K38. I have zero intention of doing so. Maybe from MT Gianni's post? This is a target pistol, not a hot rod. I have a .357 Max TC Encore for a hot rod. :) I'm using the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook and Lyman #49 manual for standard .38 Special loads. I really just want a very easy shooting target load that is consistently accurate. So it sounds like I'll be busting out the Bullseye and spending some time with my bench. And likely purchasing a Lyman 6 cavity 358-148-WC mold, which appears to be very close to an H&G #50 copy.

[Petrol & Powder]

Selmerfan, I think you've received excellent advice and I'd like to add a little.

The K-38 is a great gun and I own one. However, even with good designs, not all examples will be perfect. Revolvers can shoot very well but in order to do so, a lot of things have to be correct. That superb accuracy only appears when everything is correct. Remove one element and the accuracy drops off. I agree with the advice to shoot the gun from a rest and get an idea of the baseline accuracy of the gun itself.
Check for simple things such as a loose sight or a timing issue. (when pulling the trigger slowly in DA, the cylinder should lock before the hammer falls).

Your 155-160 grain SWC bullet should shoot just fine in that K-38 but as others pointed out, the 148 gr WC is the classic load in that gun.

Bullseye vs. WW231; Way back when I started reloading and the Earth was still flat ;).....WW231 was a bit easier to find in my neck of the woods. As a result, 231 became my powder of choice for 38 Special. I've used just about every powder appropriate for 38 Special including: Bullseye, Unique, AA#2 and others. I always came back to WW231. In some ways Bullseye is cheaper because you use so little per round and there's no doubt that it works very well with a flush seated 148 gr wadcutter. (with a HBWC it may be the best powder).
However WW231 is also very well suited for the 38 Special, particularly near the upper end of the acceptable load data. I'm not sure what data you're using but 4 grains of WW231 behind a 155-160 grain lead bullet seated to the crimp groove, is probably not in +P territory.

I totally agree with the others that there's NO need to abuse a K-38. You're just making holes in paper and ringing steel, so accuracy (not power) should guide your reloading.

SO; getting back to your original questions:
1. What kind of accuracy can one expect out of a K-38? I think this has been answered, 2" at 25 yards is possible with a good gun and all of the right components.

2. What type of bullet will give the best accuracy ? Also answered, the 148 gr solid WC (or HBWC) is the proven bullet but I think a 158 grain (ish) SWC will also do fairly well in a K-38.

3. Is the H&G #51 a bullet I should even be using in this gun ? See answer #2 above.

4. Should I be tumble lubing ? There's a difficult question. If you're lubing thousands of bullets a month, lubing and sizing gets old quick. I understand the advantages of tumble lubing but I prefer to lube & size my bullets. I'm not convinced that there's an accuracy advantage to either method. I do think that the size of the bullets as they drop from the mold is a critical part of that decision. Sometimes you must size bullets, sometimes you can get away with "as cast".

5. How much crimp ? I think this has also been answered but I will say that mild roll crimp that doesn't overwork the brass seems to be just fine.

6. Should I be using Bullseye ? My first thought is, "You got it FREE ! Of course you should be using it ! :smile:" . Bullseye is clearly the proven powder when combined with 148 gr WC's and will certainly work with your slightly heavier SWC as well. WW231 will also work with both of those bullets but I think the 231 works a bit better near the upper end (max) of the load data. I've burned far more 231 than Bullseye and I think both powders have merit in 38 Special applications.

7. What else ?
I think you're on the right path. Check the gun for obvious issues such as loose sights. Shoot the gun from a rest to get a baseline for the gun. If you switch to a WC bullet and Bullseye power - your load development has already been done for you.
You've already purchased a Dillon 550 and I don't think you could do much better than that. I've loaded tens upon tens of thousands of rounds on a 550 and it is a solid machine. It will be a good companion to your K-38.


GOOD LUCK and enjoy that GREAT revolver !!!

[6bg6ga]

selmerfan,

Refer to post #7

[6bg6ga]

A quote from post #7 Your k frame if made after the mid 50's should have been heat treated to take +P loads. Friend the last thing I want to see is someone possibly harming their K38. I didn't mention that I thought it was your intention to shoot +P loads but rather found fault in the wording in post #7

[selmerfan]

A quote from post #7 Your k frame if made after the mid 50's should have been heat treated to take +P loads. Friend the last thing I want to see is someone possibly harming their K38. I didn't mention that I thought it was your intention to shoot +P loads but rather found fault in the wording in post #7 That's what I figured. :) Thanks for the advice - I don't want to ruin it either. If I ever feel the need for a .357 Mag wheelgun, I'll save up for a nice S&W .357 Magnum. But I doubt I'll ever do it. I just want a fun target plinker that is accurate and I don't have to mess with. Which is how I ended up with the K38.
MT Gianni - you mentioned "cast them as soft as possible". So if I'm casting wadcutters, even not hollow based, should I be using pure lead? I've got some dental lead, but plenty of SOWW lead, COWW lead, linotype, monotype, and tin to mix up whatever I need. I've been casting 50/50 SOWW/COWW and air-cooling them.

[44man]

Like all my revolvers, even case tension from case to case is more important then the boolit. Also the primer used, avoid magnum primers in the .38. The loading dies used can make or break accuracy. That was the biggest revelation to me years ago.
My accuracy came from holding my head and imagination for what happens in the gun.
You have a fine revolver, you can make it work.

[44man]

That's what I figured. :) Thanks for the advice - I don't want to ruin it either. If I ever feel the need for a .357 Mag wheelgun, I'll save up for a nice S&W .357 Magnum. But I doubt I'll ever do it. I just want a fun target plinker that is accurate and I don't have to mess with. Which is how I ended up with the K38.
MT Gianni - you mentioned "cast them as soft as possible". So if I'm casting wadcutters, even not hollow based, should I be using pure lead? I've got some dental lead, but plenty of SOWW lead, COWW lead, linotype, monotype, and tin to mix up whatever I need. I've been casting 50/50 SOWW/COWW and air-cooling them.
Too soft is wrong. I made a mistake years ago when I told my police friends I would clean their guns--WRONG. More stinking leading even outside on the frames and cylinders then I could handle. Toss the soft as far as you can.

[selmerfan]

Small pistol primers is all I'm using - only Rem 1 1/2 so far. Say more about the dies please. I'm sizing and seating with Hornady Custom Grade and crimping with an RCBS roll crimp die from another set. I've never thought about dies having too much effect on handgun accuracy other than how much crimp they are set to apply.

[selmerfan]

So is the 50/50 SOWW/COWW okay? I've got the stuff to mix Lyman #2, but that seems to be a waste on this application.

[44man]

Hornady is all I use and crimp needs only enough to prevent recoil movement. Just a gentle crimp with the hornady dies, no need for other. I seat and crimp all at once and have forever.
50-50 should work fine. Might need a GC but testing is in order. No 2 is really not that hard. Try oven hardening 50-50 or water dropping.
I will never understand why soft lead is used in a .38.
Watch SOWW's, much zinc today. Some other strange junk. You would do better with just COWW's water dropped.

[lotech]

I have a well-used K38 from the 'seventies. It will probably group into about 2" at 25 yards, but I haven't tried this in a while. I've had better results using a .357" bullet size die instead of a .358". My gun will also shoot the H&G #51 more accurately than it will the #50 WC. I use Lyman 231 data, even if it shows to be considerably hotter than Hodgdon data. Bullseye vs. 231 accuracy? I finally gave up on this as I couldn't see the difference.

[ReloaderFred]

When I was shooting PPC on our department pistol team back in the late 1970's, my K-38 would put 10 rounds of 148 gr. HBWC into 1 7/8" from a Ransom Rest at 50 yards all day long. That was using all 6 chambers. The only alteration to my K-38 is the addition of a Bomar Rib. While I never did shoot a perfect 600 in competition, I did have several 597's with a high X count, and one 598. The 50 yard line will get you when you think you're in "the zone".......

Use the Bullseye for accuracy. There's a reason it's been with us for well over 100 years, and it's called "Bullseye"....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[selmerfan]

44man - I have also always seated and crimped in one step on my single stage. I set my 550c up last week and Dillon recommends that it be done in separate steps - I don't really know why. My wheelweights of all varieties are carefully melted down and skimmed to get the zinc and steel off the top before I would ever come close to the zinc melting point. I'm starting to have more SOWW/pure than COWW. I may need to consider trading for COWW, as I use far more of that alloy than the softer stuff. Though I suppose I could alloy the soft with my harder alloys to duplicate COWW alloy. What do you lube with? I'd like to try 45/45/10 and see how I like it, but afraid it will gum up my dies.

[44man]

44man - I have also always seated and crimped in one step on my single stage. I set my 550c up last week and Dillon recommends that it be done in separate steps - I don't really know why. My wheelweights of all varieties are carefully melted down and skimmed to get the zinc and steel off the top before I would ever come close to the zinc melting point. I'm starting to have more SOWW/pure than COWW. I may need to consider trading for COWW, as I use far more of that alloy than the softer stuff. Though I suppose I could alloy the soft with my harder alloys to duplicate COWW alloy. What do you lube with? I'd like to try 45/45/10 and see how I like it, but afraid it will gum up my dies.
I only use Felix lube. There are others that work of course.
I do not know why you would need to crimp separately. Pay for an extra die I guess.
You are doing good. We have no idea what is in our lead today.

[Petrol & Powder]

Even if you're not casting your own bullets this is a worthwhile read: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

Pay attention to the chart that shows the appropriate hardness for velocities in chapter 3. That's accurate info. I aim for a BHn of around 11 for all of my 38 Special bullets and that includes wadcutters. The WC could easily be cast softer and still work fine but I prefer to use the same alloy for all of my 38 bullets.

I despise gas checks and avoid them. Plain based lead bullets and revolvers just go together.


The Dillon 550 has a separate station for the crimping function so it's no big deal to separate the seating and crimping functions. I've always seated and crimped in separate steps, even when using a single stage press. That's a personal preference but I've always found it easier to get what I wanted by separating those processes.

[KCSO]

From a rest 1" at 25 yards and IIRR the factory guarantee was 2 1/2" at 50 yards from a machine rest. I have shot 4 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100 yards when I was young and could see straight.

[country gent]

The majority of NRA pistol competitors used the 2.7 grns bullseye and a 148 grn wadcutter. It seems to perform good in any pistol. I don't crimp my wadcutter loads just iron out the bell and go. I have had crimps distort the bullet occasionally. With the light 38 target loads bullet pulling isn't as big a issue as theres very little recoil to do it. I give about .001 - .0015 tension and iron out the belling.

[dverna]

Very good advice. One thing to add. Check to see if the barrel has a bit of leading.

I also had a K38 and regret ever selling it. They are wonderful guns.

[jonp]

Accuracy: as good as you can shoot. These are wonderful guns and make a dubber like me look like a pro.

[Drm50]

I've got a few K38s. Shoot nothing but Wadcutters in them, 148g, they shoot as good as you
can hold them. I just got a -3, NIB that I'm going to set up for 158 SWCs, but will not be using
anything but mild loads. You don't want to beat up a target gun fooling with hot loads. I have a
few 19s/ 6" and no matter what I do they won't compete with the K38 for accuracy. I don't use
hot loads in any of my S&Ws, even the 29s.

[Char-Gar]

Unless you have lots of money to spend, or shoot competition paper targets where you need precision scoring, don't spend your money on a WC bullet. The SWC you have is all you need in the accuracy department.

3.0 grains of Bullseye will give you a good accurate load with mild recoil and is easy on the revolver.

[6bg6ga]

Several things to keep in mine. My opinions naturally. I make sure I obtain the correct bullet size. To my line of thinking the correct size is better than having a hard bullet. I don't have a K38 instead I have a 686. I shoot straight lead in it not too fast and its accurate with the three molds I have. It likes the 125gr round nose, 160 rn, and 158SWC. Several tenths of a grain are enough between a load that takes the center out of the target and a larger group. W231, Unique, Red Dot, and several others I have made accurate. I tried Bullseye and haven't found it to be the best but on par with the powders I mentioned. I will disagree with some things said here as I've never obtained that perfect load with the full wadcutter bullet but to each his own. I'm saying to experiment and see what you come up with on your own.

[dubber123]

I have several K-38's, the last I picked up was a 1948 model. All shoot well, but 2 of the 3 have had the constriction at he frame firelapped out of the barrel. The 1948 model responded well, and groups shrunk to sub 1" at 25 yards, I still haven't run this one at 50 yards. The 1967 model, will stay in 1.5" at 50 yards on a good day. and I managed 5 in .9" with 4 witnesses at 50 meters (IHMSA range), but only once. From a machine rest, I would bet it was common. I gave up on wadcutters once the range gets past 25 yards. My best wadcutter loads ran around 2"+, and the Lyman 358311, and the BRP 360-150 RF (favorite), really do better. Wadcutters shoot great at 25, good at 50, and less so past there. They save a bit of lead and powder, but that's about it, they are not magic.

[2shot]

I have posted this before, take it for what it's worth. It's a good starting point if nothing else.



"From one NRA DR shooter to another. Most people don't know the requirements for this event. Here's what I've found that works in my M-14.

SWC's are ok for 25 yard accuracy but will not get you into the winners circle at 50 yards. That's where you have to be competitive to earn your points. I gave up long ago on the SWC of any design for keeping shots in the 10 (or X ring) at 50 yards, they just don't have what it takes. I have settled on the Lyman 358311 four banger and cast my boolits out of range scrap, size to .358 and lube with White Lable BAC. I load them in Remington brass that I have trimmed to .010 less than the minimum length ( 1.145"), use 3.0 grains of Bullseye over a Winchester SP primer, seat Lyman 358311 to the front driving band (half way from top to bottom of this driving band) and crimp with a Redding Profile crimp die with minimal crimp ( .372, just enough to hold bullet from jumping) on the front driving band.

I have had bad luck seating to the crimp groove with this 358311 so I stopped experimenting with seating them this way. By seating deeper to crimp on the front driving band like I do I could use a lesser crimp which helped tremendously with this boolit. With the deeper seating and lighter powder charge there is no problem with pressure and accuracy was much better.

So here's a summary of what works well in my M-14 for DR

Remington brass all trimmed trimmed to .010 under minimum length 1.145"

Winchester small pistol primer

3.0 grains of Bullseye powder.

Lyman 358311 sized .358 with BAC lube and seated to middle of front driving band.

Crimped in separate stage with Redding Profile crimp die to .372

You may have to tweek this a bit for your revolver but it shoots great in mine.

Good luck on your quest for the DR badge.

2shot

An edit to this post. I decap with Lee universal decapper, size with an old RCBS carbide re-size only die and bell case mouth with Lyman "M" expander. I have found that most of the newly manufactured sizing dies squeeze the brass down more than the old ones. The best sizing dies are the old steel dies if you want to take the time to lube the cases and then clean (tumble) them when your done resizing. It pays to experiment with a bunch of sizing dies to see which one ends up being the largest diameter and then use that one for your DR loads. It will work the brass less and fit your chambers better.

This is all figuring that you've already done your homework on your M-14 to find out the throat sizes are all the same, cylinder gap minimum and all the other things it takes to shoot lead accurately in a revolver plus as much dry firing as you can do."

You can shoot WC'ers and they will do fine but the joke in DR shooting is that WC'res shoot fine to 49 yards and at 50 yards they go all to he!!. There is a bit of truth to that joke. All depends on what you want and the range you will shoot at. Like has been said even a stock M-14 should do 2 inches at 25 yards. Nothing magical about the S&W model numbers, it's all in how they were put together. I had an old M-10 that could outshoot just about anything on any given day. That M-10 had all it's lucky stars in a row the day it was built. Pretty good for what most would consider just a service revolver.

2shot

[Texas by God]

When I Was young & steady my K38 was my best small game handgun and made me look like I knew what I was doing when shooting with friends. Bowling pins @ 100 yds off the bench were easy. Turtle heads in the stock pond- doable. I got it cheap because of cosmetic issues from a house fire. KG Gunkote and some Pachmayers fixed it up. Lost it to an irresponsible family member's lifestyle. I Want another for sure. Next to the .45 ACP; the .38 spl is my favorite handgun cartridge. WCs will probably give your best accuracy but it will probably shoot everything just fine. Enjoy!
Best, Thomas.

[Char-Gar]

When I Was young & steady my K38 was my best small game handgun and made me look like I knew what I was doing when shooting with friends. Bowling pins @ 100 yds off the bench were easy. Turtle heads in the stock pond- doable. I got it cheap because of cosmetic issues from a house fire. KG Gunkote and some Pachmayers fixed it up. Lost it to an irresponsible family member's lifestyle. I Want another for sure. Next to the .45 ACP; the .38 spl is my favorite handgun cartridge. WCs will probably give your best accuracy but it will probably shoot everything just fine. Enjoy!
Best, Thomas.

You are a kindred spirit. The 38 Special and 45 ACP are far and away my favorite handgun rounds. I do have and shoot 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 Colt, but they are the back of the pack.

BTW, I consider the ACP, Auto Rim an 45 Cowboy Special to be the same round except for differences in the rim.

[jonp]

You are a kindred spirit. The 38 Special and 45 ACP are far and away my favorite handgun rounds. I do have and shoot 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 Colt, but they are the back of the pack.

BTW, I consider the ACP, Auto Rim an 45 Cowboy Special to be the same round except for differences in the rim.

After my 22lr Single Six I'm finding myself shooting my 38sp's more than anything else including my 45ACP and 45LC's. Actually, I shoot them more than my Single Six now because casting and reloading have made them cheaper to shoot.

[Char-Gar]

After my 22lr Single Six I'm finding myself shooting my 38sp's more than anything else including my 45ACP and 45LC's. Actually, I shoot them more than my Single Six now because casting and reloading have made them cheaper to shoot.

Far a man that handloads, a good 38 Special revolver will do 98% of what we want a handgun to do. It does it with mild recoil, excellent accuracy and easy on the pocketbook ammo.

[RoadBike]

I bought a used Model 14-3, 6" bbl, a few months ago. I've been using some commercial 148gr double end wadcutters that I bought years ago.

I measured 10 of the 148gr DEWCs with my micrometer. The average diameter was 0.3581, and the average weight was 147.5gr which included the red lube. I checked the hardness with my Lee tester. These old bullets were BHN 13.4.

I loaded 24 rounds with the head of the bullet flush with the case mouth and applied a light taper crimp (enough to just remove the flare from the Lyman M-die). 12 rounds had 2.7gr Bullseye, and 12 had 2.8gr Titegroup. All used CCI 500 small pistol primers. The Bullseye loads averaged 760.2 feet/sec, and the Titegroup loads averaged 775.5 feet/sec. Both grouped well.

I've had good luck with some old commercially cast 158gr LSWC and 3.0 gr of Bullseye as well (approx 687 feet/sec).

Based on what I've seen thus far, this old Smith can shoot more precisely than I can.

[ole 5 hole group]

Post #27 pretty well says it all. We used a very slight tamper crimp, as it was suppose to increase accuracy - never could see a difference but since it didn't detract from our accuracy, we kept doing it and I still use a slight taper crimp today.

From a rest the K38 can and should do a shade better than 2 inches at 25 yards and everything will be within 3.36 inches at 50 yards. Offhand? Just Depends and at the age some of us are - depends has different connotations.;)