Stretching that 44 mag case

[triggerhappy243]

SOMEWHERE................ I read that their is another rifle case that uses the same shellholder and has the same diameter as a 44 mag case. looking to make longer brass for shot loads for my ruger sbh revolver.

[54bore]

445 Super Mag

190121

[54bore]

Designed by Elgin T. Gates for silhouette shooting, the .445 Super Magnum is a heavy duty, lengthened version of the .44 Magnum. Guns have been manufactured by Dan Wesson and Thompson/Center. Primer pocket must be reamed deeper if you wish to use Large Rifle primers.

[obssd1958]

I've been cutting down .444 cases and .303 Brit cases. I also use a cutdown .410 shotgun wad for the shot. Top it off by crimping a piece of card stock, cut to size, over the shot, and a few dribbles of candle wax to hold it in place.

[54bore]

1.600 - 1.610 O.A.L.

152.50 for 250 pieces of brass from Starline.

[obssd1958]

And by the way, the .445 Super Mag is a blast to shoot!! We even had a pretty lady shooting one at one of the NCBS get togethers.
It really puts the knockdown on a swinging steel plate!:target_smiley:

[54bore]

Kinda reminds me of the old .357 Maxi, i sure wish i could have bought one of the Rugers before they halted production of them, they cost a small fortune now days when you see one, kinda like a nice Pre 64 Winchester

[triggerhappy243]

I've been cutting down .444 cases and .303 Brit cases. I also use a cutdown .410 shotgun wad for the shot. Top it off by crimping a piece of card stock, cut to size, over the shot, and a few dribbles of candle wax to hold it in place.

this is what I was looking for, thank you. what do I have to do to the 303 brit brass to load for my 44 mag?

[William Yanda]

I have some in process. I found that i needed to thin the rim, and reduce the diameter slightly so they fit my Ruger SBH.

[Mk42gunner]

this is what I was looking for, thank you. what do I have to do to the 303 brit brass to load for my 44 mag?
Cut it slightly shorter than cylinder length and expand it. It has been so long since I did cylinder length loads for the .45 Colt, I don't remember if you have to turn the rims narrower or not. You can check that when you have the cylinder out.

Robert

[Skipper]

SOMEWHERE................ I read that their is another rifle case that uses the same shellholder and has the same diameter as a 44 mag case. looking to make longer brass for shot loads for my ruger sbh revolver.
Slightly larger rim, but the .30-40 Krag case diameter is perfect.

[GRUMPA]

I've done it with 444 Marlin brass, I have also done the 303 route. Using 303 the case is very thick, which.....reduces payload a bit.

Using the 444 Marlin requires a lathe to turn down the body right next to the rim. I can get a 30% increase in payload using the 444 Marlin, but I can't remember how much I got in the 303 British.

I use a special die for the crimp though, it's called a notching die which cycles great in rifles.

Hardest part when coming up with ideas.....trying to come up with a cheap parent case, it's not as easy as you may think.

After thinking a bit about what 54bore wrote, that's a case I didn't even consider. Guess I'll need to try the 445 case since it's even cheaper than what I'm using right now.

[54bore]

I've done it with 444 Marlin brass, I have also done the 303 route. Using 303 the case is very thick, which.....reduces payload a bit.

Using the 444 Marlin requires a lathe to turn down the body right next to the rim. I can get a 30% increase in payload using the 444 Marlin, but I can't remember how much I got in the 303 British.

I use a special die for the crimp though, it's called a notching die which cycles great in rifles.

Hardest part when coming up with ideas.....trying to come up with a cheap parent case, it's not as easy as you may think.

After thinking a bit about what 54bore wrote, that's a case I didn't even consider. Guess I'll need to try the 445 case since it's even cheaper than what I'm using right now.

I would think a guy could contact Starline and ask about buying 50 or so brass instead of 250, wouldn't hurt as bad on the wallet, but 152.50 for 250 brass is actually a darn decent deal! And Starline is top of the line brass

[54bore]

I just checked midway and they have the .445 Super Mag Starline Brass for .50 Cents a piece, 49 something for 100

[GRUMPA]

I just checked midway and they have the .445 Super Mag Starline Brass for .50 Cents a piece, 49 something for 100


I have a thread in the WTB section for the 445 Brass. I was going to post a thread on making them from 444 Marlin brass till you posted about 445 brass. The 445 brass is even cheaper than 444 brass, but I only have 444 Marlin brass here at the moment. I want to compare the payload side by side before I go diving into this conversion. The 414 Super Mag I use for the 41Mag shot load came out nice.

[54bore]

I have a thread in the WTB section for the 445 Brass. I was going to post a thread on making them from 444 Marlin brass till you posted about 445 brass. The 445 brass is even cheaper than 444 brass, but I only have 444 Marlin brass here at the moment. I want to compare the payload side by side before I go diving into this conversion. The 414 Super Mag I use for the 41Mag shot load came out nice.

GRUMPA, Keep us updated and let us know how it turns out, hope you can find a few pieces of brass to try! No need buying a bag of it until you know how it's gonna work? I bet the .445 Super Mag works perfect!

[RugerFan]

I have a thread in the WTB section for the 445 Brass. I was going to post a thread on making them from 444 Marlin brass till you posted about 445 brass. The 445 brass is even cheaper than 444 brass, but I only have 444 Marlin brass here at the moment. I want to compare the payload side by side before I go diving into this conversion. The 414 Super Mag I use for the 41Mag shot load came out nice.

What's your load and process for the .414 Super mag / .41 mag load?

[GRUMPA]

I'll make a thread later on that. Keep in mind that I use a special form die called a notching die when I close the case mouth.

[obssd1958]

I used R-P brass for the .303 British. I cut it down to just smaller than the length of the cylinders on my Ruger NM super Blackhawk, which turned out to be 1.680".
I just measured the rims of some R-P .44 Mag brass, and they measured .054" thick.
The rims of the R-P .303 Brit brass measured .059" thick. I didn't have any trouble with the cylinder turning, no binding, using that brass.

Hope this helps!

Don

[triggerhappy243]

WELL HERE IS AN UPDATE, A FELLOW SHOOTER GAVE ME ABOUT 60 PIECES OF 303 BRIT BRASS. THE RIM DIA. NEEDS TO BE TURNED DOWN A BIT, TIL THEN i CANNOT SEE IF THE CYL. WILL SPIN FREELY. ONCE I CUT THESE TO LENGTH, DO I NEED TO EXPAND THESE ANY?

[obssd1958]

I expanded the case mouth a little, so that the .410 wads were easier to push down, but the rest of the expansion was left to the powder charge when fired.
I'm surprised that you need to turn down the rim diameter. Mine dropped in the cylinders and turned freely after just trimming the case down.

[725]

Following this one. I have a cabin in snake country and would love to have shot loads for the .44 mag. Turning .303 into full length .44 brass for shot has me thinking. Load data, techniques, and photos would be a treat.

[GRUMPA]

Figure I would update this. Thanks to a member I received 30pcs of 445 brass. Those performed better than I thought they would to be honest. If anyone wants to look at a picture just look at this 1 since they look identical in every way.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191810&d=1490545513

Same technique I used when I made the 45LC from the 460 brass. I did manage to get 190gr of #8 shot in those and they worked just fine using the same load data that's provided as far as factory data is concerned.

The same procedure here, except go with the published factory load data: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?331134-45LC-Shotloads-from-460-S-amp-W-Mag-brass

[justashooter]

[QUOTE=triggerhappy243;3979459]this is what I was looking for, thank you. what do I have to do to the 303 brit brass to load for my 44 mag?[/QUOTE


related, I shoot fire-formed cut-down 8X57 brass shells in moon clips in a s&w 25-2 chambered in 45 acp, with about 5 grains of green dot, card wad, 4/10 oz of 7 1/2 shot, and cover wad glued into place, for decent patterns that get spiral/spotty at 15 yards. almost equal to a 2.5" 410 payload.

[mortyg]

I use a 30-06 sized case. Cut/trim to 1.73. Full length size with a 44 sizer die all the way to the rim, very important.. Size the mouth with a 41 mag sizer die about .5 inch, if your cylinder is not smooth bore.
193696193697

[triggerhappy243]

well i am getting back on these 44 shot loads. What do I use to cut these to length? all I have done so far is to knock out primers. they are in the tumbler right now. I do not have a lathe.

[triggerhappy243]

also, I know I will need to fire form these once I trim to length. what would I use to do this?

[triggerhappy243]

well, I used my rcbs case trimmer to turn these down to cyl. length and I ran into a bit of a snag. inside dia. of the case mouth is .385, so this means the 44 cal. gas check method will not work using 303 brit brass.

[triggerhappy243]

i've done it with 444 marlin brass, i have also done the 303 route. Using 303 the case is very thick, which.....reduces payload a bit.

Using the 444 marlin requires a lathe to turn down the body right next to the rim. I can get a 30% increase in payload using the 444 marlin, but i can't remember how much i got in the 303 british.

I use a special die for the crimp though, it's called a notching die which cycles great in rifles.

Hardest part when coming up with ideas.....trying to come up with a cheap parent case, it's not as easy as you may think.

After thinking a bit about what 54bore wrote, that's a case i didn't even consider. Guess i'll need to try the 445 case since it's even cheaper than what i'm using right now.

grumpa, are you still following this thread?

[triggerhappy243]

I have some in process. I found that i needed to thin the rim, and reduce the diameter slightly so they fit my Ruger SBH.

William Yanda, are you still in the house? how far along are you with your shot loads?

[triggerhappy243]

Following this one. I have a cabin in snake country and would love to have shot loads for the .44 mag. Turning .303 into full length .44 brass for shot has me thinking. Load data, techniques, and photos would be a treat.

725, where i am at now is 303 cases cut to cyl. length. rifle primers. looking for a bulky pistol powder that will take up some space.

[triggerhappy243]

I expanded the case mouth a little, so that the .410 wads were easier to push down, but the rest of the expansion was left to the powder charge when fired.
I'm surprised that you need to turn down the rim diameter. Mine dropped in the cylinders and turned freely after just trimming the case down.

obssd1958, are you still here?

[obssd1958]

Still here.
I didn't use the gas checks to seal the case mouth. I used a sharp case mouth to cut small cardboard (primer box) circles out, and glued them into the mouth of the case. Once you have fired them once in your gun, you should then be able to use the gas checks if you like.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've done it with 444 Marlin brass, I have also done the 303 route. Using 303 the case is very thick, which.....reduces payload a bit.

Using the 444 Marlin requires a lathe to turn down the body right next to the rim. I can get a 30% increase in payload using the 444 Marlin, but I can't remember how much I got in the 303 British.

I use a special die for the crimp though, it's called a notching die which cycles great in rifles.

Hardest part when coming up with ideas.....trying to come up with a cheap parent case, it's not as easy as you may think.

After thinking a bit about what 54bore wrote, that's a case I didn't even consider. Guess I'll need to try the 445 case since it's even cheaper than what I'm using right now.

That reduction of the .444 Marlin needs to be done very carefully for a high pressure load. You would have to size it right up to the solid head, with considerable pressure from a powerful press. Shot loads should be much less critical for case strength, though.

If you make a case holder for an electric screwdriver you can trim down the excessive diameter on the solid web with a small, sharp carpenter's rebate plane. An electric drill is liable to vibrate and bounce, but the screwdriver, with its slower rotation, won't.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

For smaller calibres, gelatin pharmaceutical capsules can be an acceptable alternative, but there is no size suitable for the .44. There are plenty of empty capsule casings on eBay, and I suspect that a lot of people's pharmacology is of the recreational variety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_(pharmacy)

[triggerhappy243]

still here.
I didn't use the gas checks to seal the case mouth. I used a sharp case mouth to cut small cardboard (primer box) circles out, and glued them into the mouth of the case. Once you have fired them once in your gun, you should then be able to use the gas checks if you like.

what powder did you use and how much?

[BAGTIC]

A rimless case might work okay in a single action revolver but in a double action it will be a bit of a nuisance ejecting the cases. Neither the .444 or 308 diameter cases will enter either of my DA revolvers. Case head diameter is too large. I suppose those cases need full length resizing before being cut and trimmed.

[triggerhappy243]

well i had to take a shot in the dark.......... no punn intended. i got 12 loaded rounds. 6.5 gr. of unique and 150 gr. worth of #8 lead shot. so far as i can tell they worked real well. the casings fireformed real nice.

[triggerhappy243]

but i do know, i need to machine off about 4 thou. off the base of the shell. they hang up when fired and i have to rotate the cylinder by hand. i need to find a mini lathe to use for a short bit.

[Outpost75]

This subject has been beat to death several times before.

Just buy Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases. Use 5 grains of Bullseye.

201790201792

[triggerhappy243]

following this one. I have a cabin in snake country and would love to have shot loads for the .44 mag. Turning .303 into full length .44 brass for shot has me thinking. Load data, techniques, and photos would be a treat.

725, are you still here?

[triggerhappy243]

Finished................. This is the finished round. 150 gr. Of 7-1/2 shot. TEST FIRED 13, ALL WORKED WONDERFUL.

[OlDeuce]

I've been cutting down .444 cases and .303 Brit cases. I also use a cutdown .410 shotgun wad for the shot. Top it off by crimping a piece of card stock, cut to size, over the shot, and a few dribbles of candle wax to hold it in place.

Could you a hot glue gun to replace the candle wax!!! ....Just a question ????? Ol Deuce

[triggerhappy243]

I wish to recognize IllinoisCoyoteHunter, for making a roll crimp die for this shot load project. He did an awesome job. Thank you sir.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Glad I could help. Enjoy!

[triggerhappy243]

i got 2 rattle snakes last weekend with my shot loads. their rattles were on strike.

[725]

triggerhappy243: I'm still here :). Been traveling a bit, building some out building structures, getting several friends stuff up to speed, ............... It never ends and it always seems I let my stuff percolate on the back burner. :(. Just got back to your report on your efforts & successes. Way to go! I plan on following in your footsteps and use the .303 as a starting point.

ARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH............... the old lady neighbor just called and has a downed tree over the driveway !!!!!!!!!!! It never ends. I should be used to this type of luck. This project is on my bucket list. :)

[Alferd Packer]

The 5 in 1 blank cases do indeed make good shot loads because while sized small enough to fit in the 44-40, 38-40, 44 mag, and 45 colt , they do so because the loads for shot are lower pressure loads.
They only hold 1/3 oz of shot or 146 grains of lead weight.
5 grains of Bullseye or 6grs of wst is the recommended charge weight for this load.
I think the 303 brit case has been said to be sized too small in diameter to fit 45 colt chamber, but just right for a 44 chamber.
I think the .303 brit can be used in the 45 colt for shot the same way since it will be used for a low pressure shot load too.
In fact it has been used this way for years by many shooters in the 45 colt revolver especially so since they started making those plastic wads for .410 shotshells..
You just need to remember to put an overpowder wad under the smaller .410 plastic wad or the powder will leak past the wad and ruin the load when fired.
You also can load a bit more shot in the 303 case, but resist hotrodding the load by adding a bigger powder charge.
The .410 wad at lower pressure will slide out the barrel without getting mashed into the rifling if you keep the pressure low
You don't want the shot charge to spin!

[SweetMk]

OK, I wanted to make some 44 Mag shot shells, and I had hoped to put plastic wads in the cartridge to protect the bore.

I ordered the 445 Super Mag brass, which is 44 Mag brass, except about 0.300" longer.
Of course, I did not look at the cylinder before I ordered,,,
The cylinder has a step in it, the 445 brass will not go into the 44 MAG cylinder any further than the 44 Mag shell goes.

So, I guess I need to "neck down" the 445 Super Mag brass for the last 0.300" of the cartridge length?
I think I read that the 10MM size die will do that?

Anyways, it seems like I can not use the 410 wad in the brass, if it is necked down?

More research is needed, I guess, unless someone can help with more details as to what approach I should take.

Please HELP!! Thanks,,,

[triggerhappy243]

OK, I wanted to make some 44 Mag shot shells, and I had hoped to put plastic wads in the cartridge to protect the bore.

I ordered the 445 Super Mag brass, which is 44 Mag brass, except about 0.300" longer.
Of course, I did not look at the cylinder before I ordered,,,
The cylinder has a step in it, the 445 brass will not go into the 44 MAG cylinder any further than the 44 Mag shell goes.

So, I guess I need to "neck down" the 445 Super Mag brass for the last 0.300" of the cartridge length?
I think I read that the 10MM size die will do that?

Anyways, it seems like I can not use the 410 wad in the brass, if it is necked down?

More research is needed, I guess, unless someone can help with more details as to what approach I should take.

Please HELP!! Thanks,,,

SweetMk, I use 303 brit brass, cut just short of cyl. length. 40 S&W carbide sizer down a little ways. then they will chamber just fine.

[Alan in Vermont]

Have you considered charging the case and inserting the wad before you neck the case down?. for subsequent loadings you could probably get away with expanding the neck just enough to get the wad in on top of the powder charge, then re-necking. A 410 bore wad guide might get the wad started, then use a 1/4" dowel, maybe even an unsharpened pencil, to push the wad through the guide & neck.

[lksmith]

I've been cutting down .444 cases and .303 Brit cases. I also use a cutdown .410 shotgun wad for the shot. Top it off by crimping a piece of card stock, cut to size, over the shot, and a few dribbles of candle wax to hold it in place.

That's what I've been doing. 30-40 Krag works too just looks kinda weird with a "reverse Taper" after being used in my old stevens/sears

[ddixie884]

.41Mag should work in a revolver. the reason they use 10mm for the .45 shot shell is it goes up into the rifling of the barrel in an auto.......

[Punkinslinger]

I have used the 30-40 Krag case for cylinder length cases in my .44 Ruger SRH. Been a while since I played with them.