357 Carbine for deer?

[Elbow]

Anybody hunt with a 357 carbine and cast? I'm thinking 2400 and ww alloy in a lee 358158, no gc, any suggestions? Thanks, Craig.

[54bore]

No reason this shouldn't work, and work well! It boils down to knowing your distance limit, and solid Shot placement

[jmort]

Many success reports.
I agree it will work well

[gunarea]

Hey Elbow
My grandson has used a Winchester backpack model 94 chambered in 357 since he was a little shaver. Here in Florida, deer are smaller than most anywhere else. A 160 gr rnfp is effective with an assortment of propellants. We load into 38 special cases. You are correct in using 2400 but we got better accuracy using Blue dot. The boy is now 17 and we have developed a load into 357 brass using an RCBS 200 gr for pig hunting. In the Winchester, there has never been anything but cast projectiles. From a Lyman 115 gr sw for squirrels up to the pig killing 200 gr., 38/357 has been a great boy to man gun for my grandson. Best of skill to you.
Roy

[dverna]

How good a shot are you? Are you a good hunter? How is your range estimation?

Remember, that most people will not tell you about the deer they lost. but the ones they killed. One guy boasted about killing a deer at 250 yards or so with a .45 LC. That does not mean the .45 is 250 yard deer gun.

I have three .357 carbines and have never hunted deer with them...but I have better choices. If I had to use one, I would handload it with 125 gr Gold Dots or something similar with IMR 4227. That will give about 2000 FPS with published loads. A large deer here will be 175 lbs..we do not get many monsters

[Elbow]

Ive shot about 100 deer with rifles, longbows and percussion n muzzleloaders but never with a 357 carbine. My other question is is it ok to use this load with magnum primers?

[shoot-n-lead]

Remember, that most people will not tell you about the deer they lost. but the ones they killed.

I think you are spitting in members faces to suggest that they will not tell someone if they have lost a deer or several with the caliber/gun that is being asked about. It may happen on some forums...but you cannot make me think that it happens here as a matter of course. WHAT would be gained by doing that?

It is fine if you don't choose to use a .357 carbine...but that in no way means that it is not an effective deer rifle as long as it is used for the distances that most lever guns are used for...out to 100yds.

If you have never used one...how do you know?

I have used one...it is definitely up to the task.

[jmort]

2400 is listed for use with standard SP primers. If the load is not a red-line charge, I would do it if that is what I had. You have to make that call. Me, I would do it.

[Shawlerbrook]

No problems ! Keep the distance reasonable and take good shots and heat up the skillet. I shot a couple with a 4" revolver.

[selmerfan]

I'm in a shotgun state - Iowa - where we are limited to using either shotgun slugs, pistols firing straight-walled pistol rounds which are specified/approved by the DNR, or muzzleloaders. I grew up in SD, so shotguns are for birds and rifles are for deer. I use a single-shot TC Encore chambered in .357 Maximum with an 18" barrel from MGM. I cast Ranch Dog 190 gr. gas checked bullets for this gun and they shoot MOA out to 200 yds and leave the muzzle at over 1900 fps. I've killed lots of whitetails with it - the only whitetail I've injured and didn't recover in Iowa was with a shotgun. The .357 Max hasn't let me down from 15 yds to 178 yds and I would have zero qualms about shooting a deer at 200 yds or a little more with it. The .357 Mag from a carbine should certainly be a 100 yd deer gun if the bullet is placed into the vitals. I shoot from a ground blind with a solid rest, but have killed a few deer with it offhand using the "taco hold" out to 100 yds. Practice, practice, practice. Personally, I'd want a gas-checked bullet so I can drive it as fast as possible.

[dnepr]

190094Yup a 357 carbine will take deer , that is a my Rossi 92 in 357 the load was 16.5 gr of h110 under 158 gr a seirra j word . went over the chronograph at 1825 fps . I put one in his neck and broke the spine . DRT. That is a northwestern Ontario buck . He would have easily been better than 200lbs ( felt like 300 when I had to drag him up hill ) I wished I had weighed him ,he was big. When he was hanging in the garage I relalized that fully stretched out the tips of his rear hooves to tips of his fronts he was taking up about 9 feet of the 10 ft ceiling height
i don't know why the image is inverted , I can't seem to get it right side up [smilie=b:

[jmort]

Deer is dead up or down. 1,167 ft lbs with a 158 grain JSP = dead

[Jedman]

The 357 Mag is very capable. Just make a good shot and you will not be disappointed.

Jedman

[ammohead]

A good cast boolit 158 - 200 gr with a nice wide flat point will kill as good or better than a lighter jacketed bullet. Aim small, put it in the boiler room and start sharpening knives. Whenever someone suggests that a jacketed bullet is much better than a cast bullet for big game hunting I always ask "Seen any buffalo lately"?.

[Teddy (punchie)]

190094Yup a 357 carbine will take deer , that is a my Rossi 92 in 357 the load was 16.5 gr of h110 under 158 gr a seirra j word . went over the chronograph at 1825 fps . I put one in his neck and broke the spine . DRT. That is a northwestern Ontario buck . He would have easily been better than 200lbs ( felt like 300 when I had to drag him up hill ) I wished I had weighed him ,he was big. When he was hanging in the garage I relalized that fully stretched out the tips of his rear hooves to tips of his fronts he was taking up about 9 feet of the 10 ft ceiling height
i don't know why the image is inverted , I can't seem to get it right side up [smilie=b:

Yep nice large buck I would guess him in the 170-180 range field dressed.

I'm going to be looking for one of these lever action guns. Here allot of good about Rossi. What your thought's ??


Teddy

[Fishman]

Hey Elbow
My grandson has used a Winchester backpack model 94 chambered in 357 since he was a little shaver. Here in Florida, deer are smaller than most anywhere else. A 160 gr rnfp is effective with an assortment of propellants. We load into 38 special cases. You are correct in using 2400 but we got better accuracy using Blue dot. The boy is now 17 and we have developed a load into 357 brass using an RCBS 200 gr for pig hunting. In the Winchester, there has never been anything but cast projectiles. From a Lyman 115 gr sw for squirrels up to the pig killing 200 gr., 38/357 has been a great boy to man gun for my grandson. Best of skill to you.
Roy

What a great synopsis of your approach. Makes good sense to me!

[Jeff Michel]

In my experience 358156 will perform better with a gas check. With 12 grains of 2400, I'm shooting a 180 Grain WFN from NOE and it's running 1470 fps over my chronograph. I didn't use a .357 the 2016 season but in 2015, I took three deer with three shots from 125 yards to 60 paces. None of them traveled 10 feet.

[GhostHawk]

All about bullet placement. What ever you choose buy enough of the same type of ammo that you can afford to practice until you can consistently hit a golf ball at 100 yards.

Once you can hit 4 out of 5 you can see if you want to stretch it farther.

The cartridge will do the job in most guns.

The question is, and will remain, can the shooter do his?

[selmerfan]

A good cast boolit 158 - 200 gr with a nice wide flat point will kill as good or better than a lighter jacketed bullet. Aim small, put it in the boiler room and start sharpening knives. Whenever someone suggests that a jacketed bullet is much better than a cast bullet for big game hunting I always ask "Seen any buffalo lately"?. Jacketed ARE better than cast. In a 7mm Mag or .260 Rem. But certainly not in a .357 Mag or .45-90 Sharps!

[bob208]

I will answer with a question. if the .357 out of a 4 or 6 inch barrel hand gun will drop a deer out to 100 yds why would a carbine in .357 not work better ?

[sawinredneck]

How good a shot are you? Are you a good hunter? How is your range estimation?

Remember, that most people will not tell you about the deer they lost. but the ones they killed. One guy boasted about killing a deer at 250 yards or so with a .45 LC. That does not mean the .45 is 250 yard deer gun.

I have three .357 carbines and have never hunted deer with them...but I have better choices. If I had to use one, I would handload it with 125 gr Gold Dots or something similar with IMR 4227. That will give about 2000 FPS with published loads. A large deer here will be 175 lbs..we do not get many monsters

Just curious, why the jhp bullet instead of a jacketed soft point or the like? Two legged I'll go jhp every day, but a deer I want more penetration imho.

[54bore]

I will answer with a question. if the .357 out of a 4 or 6 inch barrel hand gun will drop a deer out to 100 yds why would a carbine in .357 not work better ?

In my opinion a carbine would be FAR and away better!

[Chihuahua Floyd]

for deer in the 357 I have used a 158g JHP because I did not have any JSP or cast loaded to 357 mag velocities. I personally think the 125 is light for deer. The 357 is good to go with a suitable bullet and knowing the limitations. I use it for woods hunting only, not for corn fields, for that I have a 30-06.
Limits for me are how far I can see in the woods I hunt, much less than 100 yards.
As always, never try to hunt further than you have punched paper. If you can not keep them in the black at X yards, don't try to hunt at X yards.
It is a suitable deer rifle if used within the limits ethical hunters impose upon themselves.
CF

[725]

In the matter of the .357 Mag or .357 Max, has anybody used / hunted with the 358627? I've gotten pigs with it but never deer. I'm sure it would work just fine but would like to hear about others and their results. In the arena of .357's for hunting, I think it's a fine boolit.

[centershot]

Whenever someone suggests that a jacketed bullet is much better than a cast bullet for big game hunting I always ask "Seen any buffalo lately"?.

+1! :lovebooli

[Sur-shot]

Over the years I have demonstrated to several very knowable shooters why they should never load a 357 mag lever gun like a revolver. In your 357 mag reloading data you really should have a handgun page and a separate rifle page because they really do load different. The little 357 carbine is a bad hombre with a big heavy bullet and a stout load. I prefer the RCBS 200 or 180 over a heavy crimped and compressed load of H-110 or 296 with a 205m or similar rifle primer. You set the OAL to clear a revolver cylinder, if you have one, so the cylinder when loaded just turns freely. At that point the loaded round will function through a lever gun action. The real important thing is that a loaded round ejects without being fired.
The thing the 357 carbines normally need is a new set of open sights because the front sight is real big, covers about a VW Bug at 100 yards. It is the reason I prefer a Marlin 94C over the others. The little Marlin takes a center mounted low power scope, which fixes that big open sight situation very nicely. Only problem with the little Marlin is, around here anyway, they have gotten real expensive. I guess the prices are driven by the cowboy shooters.

I do like that buck deer and the load, very nice. Very similar to the 162gr RCBS SWC GC and 15.8 to 16gr of H-110 that I use as a carry load. Thumbs up.
Ed

[dverna]

Just curious, why the jhp bullet instead of a jacketed soft point or the like? Two legged I'll go jhp every day, but a deer I want more penetration imho.

Deer in my area are rarely larger than a man. So if I was using a .357, I would want to use what has been shown to be a good bullet for killing men. I prefaced my original comment with the ability to make the shot, estimate range, and hunt. I would take a neck shot, or avoid hitting larger bones if taking a lung/heart shot, so penetration, as in through the animal after hitting the front shoulder(s), is not what I would be hoping for.

I am not suggesting the .357 is inadequate. But it is not a .308 or even a .243. It is why I decide to use a rifle cartridge. Could I kill deer with a .357....yes. But I have no need to.

There are many who have good success with the .357 and have shared that on this thread. They are most certainly better hunters than I am and can do what I cannot do. I depend on my ability to make the shot, and the advantages of a flatter shooting and harder hitting bullet to assure a humane kill when conditions are not ideal

[dverna]

Whenever someone suggests that a jacketed bullet is much better than a cast bullet for big game hunting I always ask "Seen any buffalo lately"?.

If those buffalo hunters had access to HV rifles with modern jacketed bullets, how many would have used black powder 45/70's?

Look, I get it. It is a cast bullet site. But really......

[jmort]

We have a member here using the Ranch Dog 135 grain 9mm in his Marlin Camp 9 harvesting deer, no problem. The RD 135, with a decent meplat, shoots right through the deer and they die. Michael has used it on hogs with same effect, dead. I am a believer in Lead Bullets Technology. The Magic Meplat. A .45-70 with a low velocity LBT Long Flat Nose is better than any hollow-point/soft-point high velocity bullet on large/dangerous game in terms of penetration and terminal effect. Let's not sell cast bullets short.

[MT Gianni]

Over the years I have demonstrated to several very knowable shooters why they should never load a 357 mag lever gun like a revolver. In your 357 mag reloading data you really should have a handgun page and a separate rifle page because they really do load different. The little 357 carbine is a bad hombre with a big heavy bullet and a stout load. I prefer the RCBS 200 or 180 over a heavy crimped and compressed load of H-110 or 296 with a 205m or similar rifle primer. You set the OAL to clear a revolver cylinder, if you have one, so the cylinder when loaded just turns freely. At that point the loaded round will function through a lever gun action. The real important thing is that a loaded round ejects without being fired.
The thing the 357 carbines normally need is a new set of open sights because the front sight is real big, covers about a VW Bug at 100 yards. It is the reason I prefer a Marlin 94C over the others. The little Marlin takes a center mounted low power scope, which fixes that big open sight situation very nicely. Only problem with the little Marlin is, around here anyway, they have gotten real expensive. I guess the prices are driven by the cowboy shooters.

I do like that buck deer and the load, very nice. Very similar to the 162gr RCBS SWC GC and 15.8 to 16gr of H-110 that I use as a carry load. Thumbs up.
Ed
Rossi had a Scout scope that replaced the rear sight fitting in the dovetail/ Mine works great.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Every deer I know about that needed tracted down by dogs or a bunch of hunters was shot with either a 357 magnum revolver or a bow.
All of those 357 mag deer were shot with a 158 or lighter jacketed bullet. Cast would have been no better in my opinion.

Your carbine will add a good 250 fps to the velocity parameters of the load due to the longer barrel. But still I would recommend at least a 175-180 grainer as a minimum cast weight. The same for Jacketed. From a carbine I have yet to see a 180 grainer 357 that did not exit. And the exit wound is the one that leaks out. That is where the tracking becomes 80% far easier.

Possibly a 160 or so grainer will do the job most the time. But from 30 years of shooting largish corn crunchers in west Indiana and east ILLinois I would not fire on a corn cruncher with less than a 180 grainer of any caliber. 200 grainers are just that much more insurance.

First revolver deer I popped in ILLinois I could have loaded my 357 Dan Wesson 10 inch barrel with a 180 grainer GC that wacks 200 meter iron rams with authority. But I chose a 255 grain 375 Ideal from our 375 Supermag because there was no way I wanted to have to grubble around in the dirt of a field or be looking under leaves for my first revolver corn cruncher. That red trail was a fine well marked path.
Heavy cast will not disappoint. But no exit wound will sure be a hard taskmaster.
Mike in Peru

[selmerfan]

In the matter of the .357 Mag or .357 Max, has anybody used / hunted with the 358627? I've gotten pigs with it but never deer. I'm sure it would work just fine but would like to hear about others and their results. In the arena of .357's for hunting, I think it's a fine boolit.

Yep - I used to have a 6 cavity Lee mold from a group buy copy of the 358627. It was a hammer on deer. I had both the 358627 and still have Ranch Dog's 359-190-RF 6 cavity. I like the RD better (no real reason - similar precision and velocity) so I sold the 358627. I still have 10 or 15 358627s sitting on the bench if you'd like to have them.

[dnepr]

Yep nice large buck I would guess him in the 170-180 range field dressed.

I'm going to be looking for one of these lever action guns. Here allot of good about Rossi. What your thought's ??


Teddy
for the most part I have been pretty happy with mine . I had to track down a firing pin for it recently . That was a pain but did finally get one . It is one of my favourite just for fun guns . I run a lot of cast in 38 special cases . Cheap to shoot like a 22 but a lot more fun

[Smoke4320]

Short answer yes .. if you are a good shot, proper bullet placement, and reasonable distance .. as said several times above About 100 yds
have one... did it .. LAST year .. approx. 70-75 yds .. Mil hec penta point 158 grn .. he went about 10-15yds total
190169

[robg]

A 4570 is a pre expanded boolit it ain't going to shrink ,not allowed to use a 357 mag over here ,I'd use mine on deer if it was allowed too 190 gr GC boolits or 165 gr gc boolits I'm sure would kill them dead enough if used wisely.

[Lonegun1894]

I have killed deer and hogs with the .357 Mag loaded with either the Lee .358" 158gr SWCGC or the Lyman 358156, and fired from a 2.25" Ruger SP101, a 4" Ruger Security Six, a 6" Ruger GP100, a 10" TC Contender, a 16" Winchester 1894, and a 20" Rossi 1892. Not a single lost animal yet, but I keep my shots to 125 yards if at all possible, with the vast majority of them being under 50 yards. The only exception was a hog that was wounded by another hunter (using a .270 of all things! Not the fault of the gun or caliber, but the "hunter") and my only shot opportunity was at a bit over 200 yards, and that bullet broke the shoulder and punched through both lungs to anchor the hog. Not a shot I would take if the animal wasn't already wounded, but My Rossi 92 .357 was what I had when asked for help so it was what I used.

[DougGuy]

I *do* like the gas check, boolits cast in 50/50+2% and soft lube just WORK. No HP needed, nor recommended.

[BrutalAB]

It is more than adequate. Its the only caliber i hunt with. Ive got a 30-06 just have never found a reason to use it. Not like it can make the deer any more dead.
Just know your load and dont change it. Cause even small changes in load can cause anywhere from slight impact change to (in my experience) 6 to 7 inches at 100 yards. Also the drop is very significant, so dont forget about that.

[54bore]

I *do* like the gas check, boolits cast in 50/50+2% and soft lube just WORK. No HP needed, nor recommended.

What this man said ^ Stay away from hollow points, If you are using Jacketed bullets go with a Soft Point

[JSH]

I got on the 357 kick several years ago. I used a Marlin the first couple of times. Loaded with 180's designed to function in a lever gun. The big flat nose in the boiler room and it's all over. The next couple of years I used a 6" GP. Same powder, different bullet design, lil gun. All my shots were 150ish and under.
In the half dozen 38 and 357's I have, the 358156 and the 358427 never gave me the accuracy I was after or was satisfied with. This was from several different molds and designs there of. A whole lot of folks swear by them, I swore at them. I switched designs and all is well.
Shoot a light bullet real fast and it slows down, real fast. I am of the thoughts on momentum.
I have shot deer with most all of the standard jacketed flavors years prior to this. The ones that neck shoot. I saw a large doe take two in the neck from a 243 at around 200 yards. Hardly any effect, yet large nasty holes. The gent I was with said he missed. Found a lot of hair and very little blood. After a bit of looking I jumped her about 30 minutes later. He was in the wrong place to get a shot. Quartering away from me heading towards undiserable cover, I shot her with a 180 out of the GP. Shot entered middle of the rib cage, exited and broke the off side shoulder. Upon field dressin, internal damage was very evident. Bone fragments of shrapnel took out both lungs and the heart.
There are a whole lot of hunters that have no idea of the anatomy of their target. They presume to think bigger,faster or newer is the key. If they would spend just a few more minutes looking at the internals when field dressing, rather than just getting it back to show their buddies.

The gent this transpired with knocked the 357 a lot, yet thinks the 223 is a great deer cartridge. I won't knock a 223, with the right bullet, with the right shot placement.
Jeff

[jonp]

I shot a 180lb whitetail with an iron sighted 357 Mag GP100, 6in barrel at 35yrds. Broke the shoulder and went through both lungs. This was using factory Remington CoreLokt 165gr hunting ammo.

Don't let anyone tell you the 357Mag is too small but be realistic with the distance. Set a reasonable one and stick to it. You should also hold out for a good shot, mine was stepping very slowly and broadside to me. If he was walking away, running etc I would not have taken the shot.

[Sigmanz]

I am of the belief that jacket bullets came about simply for speed and flatter trajectory. Not better killing power. Its been an ongoing quest to get those jacketed bullets to perform consistently. Heavy soft lead bullets work. They just have a shorter range and require more effort in hunting skills and shot placement.

[Smoke4320]

I am of the belief that jacket bullets came about simply for speed and flatter trajectory. Not better killing power. Its been an ongoing quest to get those jacketed bullets to perform consistently. Heavy soft lead bullets work. They just have a shorter range and require more effort in hunting skills and shot placement.

I would say you are correct for most situations

[vincewarde]

There are deer and then there are deer. Back in California, in the area I lived in, the blacktailed deer are typically 125lbs or so and not too much taller than a large dog. With the right bullet, I would be comfortable using a .357, a .223 or even a .30 carbine at close range. Personally, if I'm hunting 250-300lb whitetails, I am going to use something bigger.

[afish4570]

Just curious, why the jhp bullet instead of a jacketed soft point or the like? Two legged I'll go jhp every day, but a deer I want more penetration imho.


I witnessed a wounded deer being dispatched by a 4" barreled revolver loaded with 125 gr HP Remington green box. The shot was fired at a range of 2 feet into the neck. Never hit the spine and failed to penetrate completely. Deer was a nice 10 pt. probably weighed 150 lbs. I felt the slug just under the skin flattened out to the thickness and size of a nickle. I was told the 125 bullet was a great defense round not a hunting bullet.......afish4570

[Thundarstick]

If you shoot enough deer your going to have a bad outcome sooner or later no matter what your using! About the only thing i haven't killed a deer with its a rock!

[Jedman]

I have heard dozens of stories of deer that have " run " hundreds of yards to more than a mile after being double lung shot by either a bullet or a arrow with a broadheads.
I have to say they are all wrong ! Any animal that has a well placed shot through BOTH lungs has a few precious seconds to live.
I have to believe that most of these deer and other animals did not have both lungs collapsed with the shot and either there was not complete penetration, the projectile was angled through and didn't take out both lungs or for one of a possible hundred other reasons the shot did not happen as planned.

I have been involved in more than a hundred plus big game kills and the ones that you can examine when field dressing and found BOTH lungs destroyed have never traveled far.

I have had many that I thought that were " double lunged " either go quite a distance or never recovered but find that the shot didn't go as you may have sworn it did.

Jedman

[KCcactus]

2400 with a Lee 150 gr swc (with the huge meplat) in a Rossi M92 worked well for my son's first deer when he was 13. The TX doe gave him a broadside shot at 22 yds. The boolit liquefied everything between the shoulders before exiting. I was surprised by the extent of the internal damage. She ran about 30 yds before dropping. I wouldn't use it for long range, but in close, it works.
195426

[Rainier]

I count myself some kind of lucky - all I had to kill was skinny, thinned skinned Michigan whitetail. Fortunately, an old Model 13 managed to get the job done with factory (Remington) 158gr JHP inside 25 yards. The two or three (dozen) I was lucky enough to hit with my lowly .308 barely managed 20 steps, if any at all, but again, they were just sad, raggedy, Michigan whitetails. I'm so happy I never had to go head to head with those vicious bucks that could have easily trampled me to death even after having most of their vitals blown from their bodies. Indeed, I count myself some kind of lucky.
Now that I'm out in Washington, where they have armor plated blacktails and elk that will stand up to 500 magnums not to mention cougar so large they chased away most of the armor plated blacktails - I should probably just stay indoors for fear that the local wildlife are more than any gun I have will handle.
In an attempt to answer the OP's question - the definite answer is maybe. Yes, a .357 is more then enough gun for a deer depending where you live and the distance your shooting. If your hunting non-armor plated deer, like the small, thinned skinned Michigan whitetails you are golden BUT... if your up against those vicious, armor plated, genetically engineered (the Russians hacked them) deer, then as the famous soul singer said; "There ain't no way, ain't no way..."

[CIC]

I always wanted to deer hunt with a 357 but so many Internet forums had me beleaving it was not possible to kill a deer with one. I finnaly picked up a handi rifle and found it more than adequate. Good blood trails for thoes that managed to travel any distance but all of them have fallen within less that 20-25 yards. I have used a cast and JHP. I like them both for different reasons. 158-180 grains work well powered by some Lil Gun. No need for any thing bigger for me in Indiana.

[dbarry1]

I always wanted to deer hunt with a 357 but so many Internet forums had me beleaving it was not possible to kill a deer with one. I finnaly picked up a handi rifle and found it more than adequate. Good blood trails for thoes that managed to travel any distance but all of them have fallen within less that 20-25 yards. I have used a cast and JHP. I like them both for different reasons. 158-180 grains work well powered by some Lil Gun. No need for any thing bigger for me in Indiana.

+1 on what CIC says.

[olyeller]

Once upon a time, the 357MAG was "the world's most powerful handgun."
Three have fallen to my Henry in 357MAG; first was a typical TX Hill Country whitetail doe year before last. Shot her thru and thru chest shot at about 40yds. Lung materials and pink blood at the impact site. At impact, she jumped up and kicked her hind legs then ran about 60yds and piled up. It reminded me a lot of a normal shot with a 30-30 and 150gr jacketed bullet. The 158gr Hornady XTP-HP loaded over 15.7gr of H110 broke ribs going in and out, and wounding looked like the aforementioned 30-30 load.
Fast forward to this past season; Cull buck at feeder around 60 yds out. Same load as above. Another chest shot thru and thru. Ran 50 yds and died beside the ranch road so pick up was easy. :p
Later this past season, doe at same feeder. My big mistake here was not checking what load was in rifle. I had been plinking with 158gr 358156 w/GC loaded in 38SPL cases to +P level. When I shot, got a heck of a sinking feeling when the little Henry said "bang" instead of "BOOM" and heard the bullet smack the doe. Luckily, she ran about 100yds straight away and fell over dead, having her aorta severed and lungs damaged. This one was a complete pass thru also, and it's true, you "can eat right up to the bullet hole" with cast lead bullets. Had more fun with these three deer than any of the other 7 I've shot in the last two years.
No blood trails in any of the three shots, but then there have been many times I've not had a trail with my 270WIN and 140gr SST's, or 243WIN and 100gr bullets. There are no guarantees blood will spurt out like a catsup bottle run over by a Mack truck each time a deer is shot. Sometimes, it all stays inside.
I wouldn't use my 270WIN to shoot deer at 800yds, or my 243WIN to shoot elk with at 200yds. Neither would I use the 357 past 100yds for deer up to about 150lbs. Not saying it can't be done, just my 2 cents.

[dverna]

I find these stories most interesting having only shot one deer. I now live in northern MI and did not realize we had such tenacious deer. None of the guys in my area use cast bullets. There is a deer camp next to me owned by a wealthy guy and I have been to his camp...they all shoot modern rifles with jacketed bullets. In the four years I have been here all the deer (about 20) fell within 30 yards or so. The locals use bows and muzzle loaders but not during rifle season. During rifle season they use .243 on up to 7mm Mag. Some of these guys have killed more deer than I have seen in my lifetime. Back in the day, they poached deer to feed their families, even killing some with a .22LR.

Sitting around the campfire, I have never heard of mortally wounded deer going far. Quite a few stories of deer found the next day but it was always due to a really poor shot. BTW, some of these folks do not "waste" ammo sighting in every year...fortunately most shots are close so it usually works for them.

Like Rainier in post 52, I will trudge along with my lowly .308 and 165 GameKings. So far one shot one kill and it dropped like a rock. I will move up to a .375 H&H if the ******** start running a 1/4 mile after a good shot. I am getting too old to track them into the swamp and carry them out.

I am a decent shot but a terrible hunter. Like most incompetent people, I hope the equipment makes up for failings as a hunter. I help the locals sight in their guns and set up their scopes for maximum point blank range...I was shocked at how many sighted in with POI as POA at 100 yards with HV rifles. The local boys are trying to teach me to hunt, and I try to teach them about ballistics so there may be hope yet!!! Maybe they just put up with me because I have a nice 100 yard range and good liquor.

[9.3X62AL]

The gods of the hunt have been very good to me over the years. They have not sent many deer my way (only 8 so far), but those they have sent went down very close to where I shot them.

I have taken one of those deer with a 357 Magnum revolver. That animal fell over within 15 yards and a few seconds' time. So I believe that a 357 Magnum carbine can harvest deer humanely. This will be the first season of my life in which I have owned a 357 Magnum carbine, and it may well get a day afield in the deer woods. If it does, I have 180 grain and 195 grain castings that can be made into Bruce B Soft Points for the deer. I have committed to using ONLY cast bullets for the two remaining deer seasons in my CA zone in which lead bullets are allowed.

[Rainier]

...I will trudge along with my lowly .308 and 165 GameKings. So far one shot one kill and it dropped like a rock. I will move up to a .375 H&H if the ******** start running a 1/4 mile after a good shot.

Mr. Verna -
A lowly .308 for Yooper deer? Really?! My heavens Sir, I’ll keep you on my prayer list - those critters are a whole nother kettle of smelt. I’m sure I heard, around one campfire or another, that the local DNR secretly genetically mutated the UP deer by crossing them with one horned pachyderm and percheron. If I may be so bold, I suggest selling both your .308 Win and .375 Ouch & Ouch and investing in the only caliber that may have a chance of keeping you alive - a 460 Weatherby Magnum.
Goodspeed,
Rainier

[M-Tecs]

I find these stories most interesting having only shot one deer. I now live in northern MI and did not realize we had such tenacious deer..

Your deer are no more tenacious than any other deer of comparable size. What is different is some of the "stories" are a just that stories. Never shot a deer with a 357 rifle but had zero issues with it in handguns. Proper bullets selection and placement works every time.

[flounderman]

I have to question why anybody would shoot a deer in the body at less than 100 yards, when they all have a neck and it doesn't make much difference what you shoot them in the neck with, you don't have to look for them, and you are not making a mess when you dress them and not ruining the meat.

[Lonegun1894]

Some of us use iron sights and a neck shot as you describe requires hitting the spinal cord, which is a small target. Also, there's some of us who aren't willing to injure an animal and have it die a slow painful death just because it jerked it's head to look at something as the shot broke. I'm sure others have different reasons, but I prefer to give an animal as quick and humane a death as I hope I will get myself when the time comes.

[smkummer]

I found some 32-40 ammo for a friend of mine and noticed the factory rating of 1440 FPS for an original loading and 1750 for a high velocity loading of its 165 grain bullet. Those specs. are similar to .357 handgun and .357 rifle velocity specs. In its day, the 32-40 while developed as a target cartridge was also a deer cartridge and I am guessing far more deer fell to the black powder loading or the 1440 FPS loading than the later 1750 FPS loading. Practice, shot placement and weapon familiarity = harvested game.

[Hamish]

I found some 32-40 ammo for a friend of mine and noticed the factory rating of 1440 FPS for an original loading and 1750 for a high velocity loading of its 165 grain bullet. Those specs. are similar to .357 handgun and .357 rifle velocity specs. In its day, the 32-40 while developed as a target cartridge was also a deer cartridge and I am guessing far more deer fell to the black powder loading or the 1440 FPS loading than the later 1750 FPS loading. Practice, shot placement and weapon familiarity = harvested game.

This subject has been argued on this board many, many times. SM has summed it up as nicely as I have ever seen. Well said sir!

[arclight]

Hodgson Lil'Gun is also an excellent powder to get maximum velocity out of a 16" or longer barrel. I've seen 158gr slugs clock at over 2,000fps with some of those loads. It's a bit slow for pistol, but an excellent powder for 357 carbines and 30 carbine.

Arclight

[wonderwolf]

I have about 19 different molds for .38/357 and have for the last 3 years really played with the chronograph, several revolver barrel lengths (2",4",5",6" etc) and my 77 in 357 as well.

Loads using fast powders for revolvers might not give you the velocity you would hope for in your carbine. I've had loads give me very little return for the extra barrel length (18.5" vs 5") but with the slower powders much like the OP's questioned 2400 you can get a lot of velocity return for that extra barrel length, I've pushed cast 125's (MP's 360640) to 2000 fps with great accuracy out of my carbine and could go higher in the load if I wished (bullet retained full weight when recovered from wet pack tests which really surprised me)

But I would not shoot a game animal with the same load I might use for self defense, stopping a threat is not the same as meat hunting....unless you're after griz?

A good shot with a poor bullet will give better results than a poor shot with a good bullet...only thing I would say is stay away from the round nose stuff in cast or jacketed. I've never hunted deer but I know when they get shot and that epinephrine kicks in they can do some pretty amazing things even though they don't know they are dead yet.

Find a accurate load with 2400 or h110 or similar powder with a 158+gr bullet with a healthy meplat and try it out, ymmv but that is def where I would start. Remember to put out survey tape if you have lanes of fire for your max distance.

I haven't tried any of mihecs 160-170 version of the 360640 in my 77 yet but I think they will work out very well....for some reason the double crimp groove really annoys me on it however.

Deer were killed with .40 cal round balls out of long rifles for a long time before we got the .357 magnum so its all there...just need to know how to best utilize it.

[725]

Well said Lonegun1894.

PM coming over.

[6mm win lee]

I have to question why anybody would shoot a deer in the body at less than 100 yards, when they all have a neck and it doesn't make much difference what you shoot them in the neck with, you don't have to look for them, and you are not making a mess when you dress them and not ruining the meat.

The object of the game is called shot placement, animal recovery and maximum harvest. I knew a guy who shot a deer in the neck and missed the spine and major arteries and veins. The deer ran off and was not recovered until it was found dead a week later. We ragged him for a couple of years.

I killed a deer last year at a distance of thirty feet. Why? Because that is where it stopped to look back at my brother. A slug right through both sides of the rib cage, missed the front legs, and it still ran a hundred feet before keeling over. There was no loss of meat since we don't pick at the rib meat. I have taken shots at running deer in my early years, much to my shame, and lost a bunch of gut shot deer and decided I need to break that bad habit. Lost deer goes to nil when you deflate their lungs and heart. Sure, there may be a drop or two of blood in the cleaning process but that just means there is less blood in the meat.

all the best.

[Saxtonyoung]

I have taken deer with the following guns.
357 Ruger Blackhawk
Marlin 1894 C
Ruger 77/357
All 3 guns were loaded with the same handload consisting of a 180 LBT bullet and 296 powder. I'm totally convinced that the 357 is plenty capable for the deer I hunt in Michigan.
I even used the Marlin on a average sized Black Bear in 2005.

[9.3X62AL]

I am about to start my 357 loading for our October deer season here in the DPRK. First step will be about 40-50 each of Bruce B Softpoints in 2-3 weights, and test drives and chronography with homogenous-alloy castings of the same designs. I know that folks suggest "Lil Gun" powder for the heavy-bullet long-barrel applications, but in addition to AA-9 and 2400 I think some AA-1680 will get a look-see as well. Casting BBSPs in a Lee 6-banger will be the only untried challenge remaining. With 109* temps here yesterday, that just didn't suggest itself as a good idea.

The Henry Big Boy 357 carbine and the Ruger BisHawk revolver will get the call this year. I have gotten 1525-1550 FPS from the BH using Lyman #358156 and accuracy held. These are loaded "long" and contain a Rated-X weight of 2400. Pressures are healthy, I'm sure--but 3 or 4 of the 6 empties slide free from the cylinder via gravity with the muzzle straight up......a light tap with the ejector rod frees any that hang up, no "push out" required. Primers (CCI 500) have some of the radius squared a bit, but they aren't flattened.

These long-loaded "156s" don't feed in the Henry--too long. The Lee Group Buy 180 FNGC runs like water in the Henry, and shoots very well. Dunno if the 6-banger tool will work as a softpoint maker though. I have a strong bias that favors heavy-for-caliber bullets, and that goes double for castings.

So I have some R&D pending. And perhaps another Accurate bullet mould, which make EXCELLENT Bruce B Softpoints in their 2-cavity size.

[Thin Man]

Having read a few comments about neck shooting I got a flash memory from a few years ago. While I was seated on the side of a ridge a nice buck came in fast walking from my right to left. The distance and open cover allowed me a shot. When the shot sounded the deer ran like he was more scared than hurt. The blood trail from his chest told a different story and was an easy follow for 40 yards to where he fell. As soon as I got to him I saw 2 wounds. The first was my chest shot that had stopped him. The second was at the back of his head where the skull cap had been blown away by a "close but not close enough" hit from another hunter. The entire rear area of the animal's brain was exposed to the elements. This deer could have traveled for miles before he stopped to die and never would have been found. Some shooters can make meat with neck shots, bit I will just aim for the middle of the largest vital area the animal presents.

Reading everyone's chronograph reports for 158-180 loads in 357 magnum caliber give me more confidence than before in this cartridge. A close friend used to carry a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington which he claimed was the deer-killingest machine he had ever carried. He was a highly successful hunter with much experience. The comparison between these calibers is close enough that I will probably be found carrying a 357 carbine at some time this season. Have the rifle, just need to work up loads and get in range time.

[Shingle]

That combination should work good as long as you use it properly, Iv used a Marlin Camp 9 to deer hunt for years with great success,as long as you understand the limitations of you and the carbine, enjoy.

[SSGOldfart]

In the matter of the .357 Mag or .357 Max, has anybody used / hunted with the 358627? I've gotten pigs with it but never deer. I'm sure it would work just fine but would like to hear about others and their results. In the arena of .357's for hunting, I think it's a fine boolit.

yes Sir I've killed a pig with my 357maximum,with a 180gr cast plane base WFN Boolit pushed with 20grins of 2400.

[9.3X62AL]

I aim "through" the critter toward the far-side front shoulder--deer, coyote, jackrabbit. In 52 years as a licensed hunter, very few animals so hit have gone very far, or even gotten up in the majority of cases. I have yet to lose a hit deer. I even aim @ center-mass on evil rats in hayfields. If yer gonna whack something, whack it a good one.

The Lee 6-cavity moulds do fine work in most instances, but are an unwieldy impossibility for making Bruce B Softpoints. 4th and 14, time to punt. I did get some nice donor slugs in pure lead, though (Lyman #257420). I see a new 2-cavity Accurate Mould in my near future. Drat the luck. :-)

[SSGOldfart]

I'm thinking about just using muzzleloaders this year seeing how I've never lost a deer with either 45 or 50 caliber,but I still carrying the 357 as a backup,just in case.I have many options available but not enough deer season to use them all the 357mag and/or the 357 Maximum will always get the Job done for me,
Yea I've lost a couple of deer in the past 60 seasons. Kinda funny how the one that got away is the one you'll remember the most. If I do my part the round will do it's part. First deer I lost was with a 30-30,@less then 30 yards went straight through him, no blood to speak of so I replaced it with a 06, and for years never lost another,Then one day I shoot a nice buck with my 357, but I thought I had pulled the shot,turns out my shot was good but this deer went 400 yards ???? Before it bleed out, took almost two days to find it.:violin: so I learned to tailored loads are needed for a clean quick killing load.

[psweigle]

To the OP, yes, 357 magnum is more than adequate to take deer at a reasonable distance. My carbine of choice is the ruger 77/357. I use a round nose flat point lee 158gr powder coated, and a very stiff charge of H110. 2400 is more than respectable in 357 magnum, so I see no issue with that choice.

As already stated, stay away from hollow points for deer, they TYPICALLY don't penetrate all the way through. They were designed to stop and disperse all the energy INSIDE the intended target.

I've had much success with my 357 with both jacketed SOFT points and cast boolits, and I have to say that the cast boolits are forever the way I will go from this point on

Good luck to you in whatever you decide. I hope this helped you

[Larry Gibson]

"As already stated, stay away from hollow points for deer, they TYPICALLY don't penetrate all the way through. They were designed to stop and disperse all the energy INSIDE the intended target."

Have to disagree. A properly designed HP in a cast bullet used for hunting game such as deer will penetrate "all the way through" most any deer except for Texas heart shots......they are designed to expand increasing the size of the wound channel through the deer which increases the terminal effect. I have shot many deer (black tail and mule deer) with numerous cast .30 caliber bullets with a 1/8" HP 3/16" deep. All were through and through with excellent terminal effects (deer seldom went more than 20 - 25 yards before going down if not DRT). I've also used similar HPs in cast 8mm, 35 and 375 caliber cast bullets with the same effectiveness. I'll take a properly cast and HP'd bullet over any hard cast WFN any day for hunting.....actually I like the WFN cast bullets cast soft with a HP, that way I get the best of both worlds......problem is WFN cast bullets won't feed reliably in many actions, especially bolt actions.

As a LEO in NE Oregon I had to put down many injured animals; domestic along with deer and elk, especially after bow and general season. I put enough deer down with a six inch 357 revolver and a 10" Contender using the 358156 cast of 16 - 1 alloy and HP'd with the 1/8" Forster tool to know the .357 magnum will take deer quite effectively with the appropriate bullet.......jacketed or cast, especially out of a carbine. It's up to the hunter to use the right bullet and put it in the right place. That being done the .357 Magnum is up to the job within a practical range.

Larry Gibson

[SSGOldfart]

"As already stated, stay away from hollow points for deer, they TYPICALLY don't penetrate all the way through. They were designed to stop and disperse all the energy INSIDE the intended target."

Have to disagree. A properly designed HP in a cast bullet used for hunting game such as deer will penetrate "all the way through" most any deer except for Texas heart shots......they are designed to expand increasing the size of the wound channel through the deer which increases the terminal effect. I have shot many deer (black tail and mule deer) with numerous cast .30 caliber bullets with a 1/8" HP 3/16" deep. All were through and through with excellent terminal effects (deer seldom went more than 20 - 25 yards before going down if not DRT). I've also used similar HPs in cast 8mm, 35 and 375 caliber cast bullets with the same effectiveness. I'll take a properly cast and HP'd bullet over any hard cast WFN any day for hunting.....actually I like the WFN cast bullets cast soft with a HP, that way I get the best of both worlds......problem is WFN cast bullets won't feed reliably in many actions, especially bolt actions.

As a LEO in NE Oregon I had to put down many injured animals; domestic along with deer and elk, especially after bow and general season. I put enough deer down with a six inch 357 revolver and a 10" Contender using the 358156 cast of 16 - 1 alloy and HP'd with the 1/8" Forster tool to know the .357 magnum will take deer quite effectively with the appropriate bullet.......jacketed or cast, especially out of a carbine. It's up to the hunter to use the right bullet and put it in the right place. That being done the .357 Magnum is up to the job within a practical range.

Larry Gibson

Larry I couldn't agree more totally as a game warden I put down my share of game with my duty weapon. A 357mag. I was always loaded with HP's

[psweigle]

You are correct and I should have clarified. I was referring to the commercial hollow points designed for self defense. Sorry for the confusion.