TC Cherokee 45 value

[barnabus]

found a guy who has a excellent condition Cherokee with double set triggers. he wants $350 shipped.I have seen these go for as much as $600. thoughts? I want a TC 45 Flintlock but they are almost impossible to find and if you do they are rust buckets. This may hold me until i find one or have a custom built from TVA.

[Squeeze]

your not going to find one cheaper. Just make sure its not a rust tube

[54bore]

your not going to find one cheaper. Just make sure its not a rust tube

I agree with Squeeze, these bring premium dollar, especially the .32 Cal, if its in good shape you better grab it! Personally i have no use for a .45 Barrel in either a Seneca, or Cherokee. I had a like new .45 Barrel for my Seneca and traded it off, The .45 in both the Seneca and Cherokee require light loads (TC has separate load Data specifically for the Seneca and Cherokee) in my opinion both rifles are Ideally suited with the .32 or .36 Cal barrels

[Shepherd2]

Sounds like a great deal to me. I had an excellent condition Cherokee safe queen in .45 cal. I sold it about 5 years ago for $475.

[barnabus]

I agree with Squeeze, these bring premium dollar, especially the .32 Cal, if its in good shape you better grab it! Personally i have no use for a .45 Barrel in either a Seneca, or Cherokee. I had a like new .45 Barrel for my Seneca and traded it off, The .45 in both the Seneca and Cherokee require light loads (TC has separate load Data specifically for the Seneca and Cherokee) in my opinion both rifles are Ideally suited with the .32 or .36 Cal barrels

where do I find load data for the Cherokee or Seneca? What didn't you like about these in 45?

[bubba.50]

where do I find load data for the Cherokee or Seneca? What didn't you like about these in 45?


'cause he can't use those 400gr paper-patched bullets over 100gr of powder in them. and even if he could, he would suffer on the back end as much as whatever he was shootin' at on the other end in that little-bitty gun. [smilie=l:

[bubba.50]

found a guy who has a excellent condition Cherokee with double set triggers. he wants $350 shipped.I have seen these go for as much as $600. thoughts? I want a TC 45 Flintlock but they are almost impossible to find and if you do they are rust buckets. This may hold me until i find one or have a custom built from TVA.


I right often see them LISTED for 600 or even more on the auction sites but, can't recall ever seein' one actually SELL for those prices(unless maybe it was one of the small-bore Cherokees). usually the ones that DO actually get bids & sell are somewhere in the 350 to 450 range. so yeh, in the condition described it would be a pretty good deal.

my opinion & yer welcome to it.

[54bore]

'cause he can't use those 400gr paper-patched bullets over 100gr of powder in them. and even if he could, he would suffer on the back end as much as whatever he was shootin' at on the other end in that little-bitty gun. [smilie=l:

LOL, You got me figured out bubba.50!

Since i already own a GM LRH barrel in .45 that i can shoot pretty much ANYTHING i want in it i just didnt have a need for the little 'light n weak' .45 Seneca barrel

[54bore]

I might ad, a friend of mine contacted me a few months back and warned me to be DARN careful with my little .45 Seneca, he had just cracked his stock shooting a Maxi Ball, He was loaded light by the TC book and stil broke the stock. That was a little extra persuasion to move mine along to someone that wanted to shoot weak, light loads. Again, I believe both the Seneca and Cherokee SHINE in the 2 small Calibers, .32 and .36, they do not produce enough recoil to hurt anything, When you handle a Seneca you are handling a VERY scaled down Hawken. Another important note, NEVER over tighten the side lock screw, i go finger tight, and barely snug it up with a screw driver so it wont come loose, i NEVER pinch that screw down tight, if you do so you are begging for a broke stoke

[barnabus]

how much smaller are the 45 Cherokees to the Hawken?

[bubba.50]

everything about them except for length of pull is built smaller. but the main thing is the barrel is 13/16ths across the flats compared to 15/16ths for the Hawken & 1in in the Renegade and 54cal Hawken.

[barnabus]

where could I find a on line load manual for the cherokee

[Jeff Michel]

Keep an eye on your stock, they have a tendency to split at the lock bolt/escutcheon. I shoot mine with 70 grains and a 128 grain patched round ball. Works fine on deer to 75 yards. Cut the load in half and it's plenty for squirrels. Enjoy your rifle.

[Squeeze]

From TC manual

32 cal RB (.315", 47gn)

30 gns FFFg 1714 fps 307 FT Lbs
40 gns FFFg 1929 fps 388 FT Lbs
50 gns FFFg 2055 fps 441 FT Lbs ( Max! in red writing)

32 cal Maxi-ball 103gn)

30 gns FFFg 1418 fps 460 FT Lbs
40 gns FFFg 1628 fps 606 FT Lbs
50 gns FFFg 1749 fps 700 FT Lbs ( Max! in red writing)


Those are all hot loads. I normally shoot a .315 ball with ~15-20 grains 3f

[bubba.50]

I believe he's lookin' for 45cal loads for his Cherokee.

[54bore]

Here ya go, this is straight from my TC Manual for the Seneca and Cherokee .45 Cal

190031 190032

[Squeeze]

190033

190034

[54bore]

In my opinion 80 Grains of 2F behind a 320 Grain Maxi ball/Hunter in a Seneca, or Cherokee is asking for problems? But TC says you can do it.

[54bore]

Squeeze, we are at war here! LOL, we must have posted at the exact same time? Proof that great minds think alike! LOL

[Czech_too]

It may be just the way I planted my cheek up against that stock, but I got a bruise from that .45 barrel the first time out and that was with 50gr. FFF
Maybe it's an age related thing. I do find I bruise easier now.
I've since put a sheepskin wrap on the stock.

[pietro]

.

Once upon a time (early 1980's) I bought new .45 Cherokee for deer in my state - as here in my state, muzzleloaders were (and still at) the only rifles that could be legally used for whitetails.

In it, I used a T/C Maxi-Hunter boolit over 70gr FFFg, which was accurate, took deer expeditiously, but slapped my cheek about the same as the CF .44 Mag Ruger autoloader I used for taking Maine deer (as a non-resident) - which surprised me.

About 20 years later, I lucked into a .45 Seneca for chump change, and started to use it for deer instead of the Cherokee because for some reason the stock didn't slap my cheek like the Cherokee did.

Shortly afterward, my state's hunting laws were changed to mandate .45cal or over (only) for deer and the use of rifles under .45 cal (only) for small game - but since I couldn't find a reasonably-priced .36 Seneca, I satisfied my small game needs with a .36 H&A underhammer rifle.

Then, about 5 years ago, I stumbled across a .36 Seneca - which I had been seeking ever since I bought the .45 Seneca.

I immediately sold the .36 H&A, then this last Winter finally sold the .45 Cherokee for $400.

IMO, today, a $350 Cherokee .45 in primo condition is a steal (the smaller .32 & .36 cal rifles will usually change hands for at least 150% the money of a .45 in either Cherokee or Seneca dress).

Anyone who looks to purchase any of the down-sized ( thinner barrels, more slender stocks & locks than the larger Hawken's) needs to understand that repair or replacement parts are un-obtainium, AND to check the wrist area of the stock very closely prior to purchase, for cracks/breakage from shooting Hawken-level heavy loads.

Broken stock's are a deal-breaker, unless the buyer is adept at stock repair.


.

[54bore]

IMO, today, a $350 Cherokee .45 in primo condition is a steal (the smaller .32 & .36 cal rifles will usually change hands for at least 150% the money of a .45 in either Cherokee or Seneca dress).

This is spot on what I've seen! 70 Grains of 3F behind a Maxi Hunter in either a Cherokee or Seneca in .45 Cal would be a STOUT load in my opinion, I personally wouldn't chance it in mine.

[barnabus]

what or who was the Cherokee designed for women and kids?i may end up selling it pretty quick.

[54bore]

what or who was the Cherokee designed for women and kids?i may end up selling it pretty quick.

barnabus, i am not sure if TC was thinking women and youth when they built the Cherokee and Seneca? It makes good sense if that was there plan? If your cherokee is in good shape i would keep it and search for a .32 Cal cherokee barrel! As previously stated I have the Seneca in .36 Cal and I absolutely love mine!!

[pietro]

what or who was the Cherokee designed for women and kids ?




No - It was a representation of the classic New England Hunting Rifle of the 2nd half of the 1800's.

The smaller sized locks/stocks/barrels were advantageous when woods-walking, and the calibers adequate for most game available in New England.





.

[quilbilly]

where do I find load data for the Cherokee or Seneca? What didn't you like about these in 45? I have both in 45 cal. though I am about to restock the Seneca to turn it into something really special. I love both for hunting our local deer with PRB and have taken a mule deer or three up to 200# plus with no difficulty. Both have been tack drivers with PRB. My load for the 45's has always been 55 gr of 3F Goex black powder with an .010 patch. A long time ago I came across a few bags of the blue MMP sabots and tried those in the Seneca quickly finding out that the Seneca preferred cast lead 9mm boolits rather than 358's (who knows why). Those 125 gr. 9mm boolits were very accurate out to 200 yards where I touched a few coyotes. I did try the 9mm boolits on deer and did get a couple but PRB is far superior on deer.

[Huntryx]

Just found this thread--- I picked up a PRISTINE Cherokee in .45 last year for $225. My go-to prior rifle was (still have it) a .50 Renegade, with 85g of Pyrodex behind a maxi-hunter. As I am aging ( aren't we all?) I find the Renegade a bit heavy for a day of stalking, and the Cherokee is so much lighter it is a pleasure to carry. I have found good accuracy with 60g Pyrodex and a PRB (.440) but I recently bought a mould for .445 hoping for even more. The REAL bullets I have cast so far have been terrible. That is good information about the lock screw as mine has been chronically loose and the impulse is to tighten it right up. What are thoughts out there about .440 vs .445?