Super heavy wadcutters or "chamber cast" wadcutters for revolvers?

[Whistler]

189844189842

The above design seem to be very common for the all in crazy hand cannon loads in .500 S&W where maximum weight and penetration is desired.

But the more I see them the more I think that it really does fit the profile for an extreme long range bullet. in .357 Mag/Maxi, .41 Mag or .44 Mag.

1. The ones above has a bore rider nose, but imaging a full diameter wadcutter with that length, sized to fit the throats with a slight, slight push fit.
2. Portion behind the crimp groove could be adjusted to a shorter length to get the desired case capacity for a hefty powder charge.
3. Nose could be hollowpointed (as in the pic) to move center of mass rearward increasing stability.
4. Despite the flat nose, the long bullet gets a very high BC for a handgun bullet.

Am I missing something? What does the typical long range WFN, LFN or SWC bullets have that win over a full diameter wadcutter that is more or less chamber cast?

And with long range accuracy I mean shooting groups out to 250-300 yards, not estimating a single shot based on the impact in the ground of the previous.

[sw282]

l don't think these heavy 41s, 44s, 357s will shoot good in Smith&Wesson revolvers due to their slow twist..

Back when IHMSA silh was really popular, most revolver guys shot Freedom Arms, Dan Wesson, Ruger with heavy bullets because these makers used a faster twist in their barrels... Colts' Python was much more accurate in 357 Magnum with heavy 180 and 200gr loads because it used a 1 in 14'' twist.. S&W seems to be stuck with a 1 in 18 twist

[Outpost75]

My experience in .38 Special Cowboy rifles at subsonic velocity, and also in .44-40 at black powder velocities, is that bullets having a meplat larger than about 0.7 of bullet diameter have nonlinear dispersion as you go past about 50 yards and you have no hope of "normal" accuracy over 100 yards because they act like a wadcutter.

Now 44Man reports good accuracy with LBT WFN, large meplat bullets at longer ranges, driving them HARD! I have not been able to do so with milder loads using plainbased bullets and soft 10 BHN alloy <1300 fps in the .44-40, but my best loads in .38 Special or .44-40 will shoot 4-5" ten-shot groups with iron sights at 200 yards, which I consider quite satisfactory.

[44man]

There is a limit for every gun. Those crazy boolits will fail at long ranges. I would max out with a 440 gr WLN or WFN in the .500 S&W. This is a case of ignoring the twist.189923 Here is my boolit that works in the JRH and the S&W.
We tested to 700 gr in the S&W and I can tell you they plain SUCK. Lose penetration and veer off to the side in test media. My boolit tracks straight and nothing stops it.

[Whistler]

My question for starting this thread is primarily related to designing a bullet that use the throat portion of the chamber for as much weight as possible outside the case for support and accuracy, this would allow for more case volume for powder and higher velocity to push a bullet to stabilize in a marginal barrel twist.

[44man]

We tested the 405 gr boolit in the .44, they had LONG noses that reached the end of the cylinder. All would turn sideways at 50 yards, never got a round hole.

[Whistler]

Yes, such bullet weight would have a hard time to stabilize. What Im thinking here though is what would happen if you make a say 320gn .44 bullet with a chamber cast type of design, filling the chamber throat totally. I do not consider a tapered design such as a WFN or LFN to fill the throat.

[44man]

I never worried about a boolit going into the throats. Most of mine do not contact, no front band on most. I rely on the forcing cone to guide and clock the cylinder with an ogive that holds up.
Now the HP shown will reduce weight so you can shoot the long boolit faster so a match to twist might be had. But with no HP, they would be too heavy.
I believe I maxed with my 330 gr WLN.
Whatever, it is spin rate for stability and once too heavy you just can't add more powder.

[DougGuy]

I think for 100yd you should be able to get decent accuracy with those elongated soup cans, I do favor the long parallel bearing surface on the sides with the widest meplat and a very slight but short ogive, and no shoulder like a K boolit.

Extreme long range in a heavy recoiling handgun sorta doesn't belong in the same sentence. Your nerves in hands and forearms go downhill very quickly. Hard to shoot accurately once you got a few rounds downrange.

44man makes a valid statement about twist, this is critical, you MUST have enough spin to achieve stability, there simply is no way around this one.

I also am very much in favor of the boolit seating into the throat and fitment within .0005" of the throat diameter is best. All of these seat well into the throat and shoot quite accurately"

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC01964_zps17b81bf2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC01964_zps17b81bf2.jpg.html)