Swaging Starting Info.

[mdi]

I've been reloading off and on for several years and want to try swaging. I've tried casting and that's OK but I want to try something different. I'm interested in pistol bullets and .223 Rem. to start. Anyone have a place for basic bullet swaging instructions including presses, dies, supplies, etc.?

From what I've read swaging can be very interesting; 22 lr hulls to jackets, soda can cups, cups/jackets from pistol brass, and so on. Maybe it's the flexability of swaging?

Thanks,
Mike

PS: Been looking at Corbin site and RCE site, wow, $$$! I have a single stage CH cast iron press that's in good shape, will this be strong enough to get my feet wet swaging? I'm sure there are more than 2 swaging equip. manufacturers?

[Buckshot]

...............Corbin and RCE are expensive for a couple reasons. Like speed or horsepower, accuracy costs money. In order to produce precision parts you have to have precision machines and people who know how to use them. Both the machines and the people to use them are expensive. In addition the materials are fairly costly, and for some of it the minimum piece may be a 10' stick, or there may be a minimum number you have to buy. So you have money tied up in overhead and overhead doesn't generate income until it's used.

Another consideration is that it isn't a high volumn business. A grocery store will operate on a 4% profit margin due to volumn of the dollars turned over. People tend to visit the grocery store once or twice a week. In contrast, jewelery stores will have at least a 50% markup as people may hit the place once a year, if that.

I don't know of anyplace that produces fully capable swaging equipment that one would consider cheap :-)

..................Buckshot

[7 MM]

I too looked in to swaging and like Buckshot says It ain't cheap if it's done right
The way I wanted to go would have cost $5000 just to start with no guarented return.
You can buy a lot of production made bullrts for that kind of money.




7 MM

[BrentD]

I rather like swaging and while I do not think it is cheap, I have a whole lot less invested in my Dave and Richard Corbin presses and dies than the $5k you cite. A whole lot less.

Brent

[Swagerman]

Swaging has been developed by experts such as Buckshot has described, yet it can be utilized by the average joe if one merely applies themselves to it...and on the cheap.

My targets prove that swaging doesn't have to be precision science for making and shooting cast bullets. Nor having to invest in ultra expensive equipment that gets sold for an arm & leg.

However, my experience is limited to cast bullet swaging, and in .44 & .45 caliber diameters. This means swaging different bullet nose shapes, making hollow point or hollow base projectiles. Also, bumping up (resizing) bullets from say .38 caliber to .44 & .45 caliber.

I don't do jacket bullet swaging, as I figure its cheaper to just buy jacketed bullets from a commercial source. Though one can change the nose shape of a commercial jacketed bullet if they want to.

Many of our members can probably afford to buy expensive swaging equipment, those who can't (myself included) can resort to transforming existing reloading presses to do swaging duty.

One of the finest presses for swaging can be found in the Lee Classic cast press. I have been using this modified Lee Classic press for almost 4 years now and it has never once failed me in performing its swaging duties.

However, it has to have a little machining lathe work done to the screw-on & off shell holder. It has to be shortened about 3/8 to 1/2 inch...see picture.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC050006cropped416X.jpg

This process allows for a break free point in the ram's shell holder top out travels in its upward thrust into the swaging die body. With this sweet spot now utilized into its changed design it can swage with ease and doesn't require excessive stress or pressure on the Lee Classic reloading press.

The more expensive swaging presses require tremendous pressure, and their press design is fashioned to utilize that stress with great efficiency. However, they also require extremely expensive accessories to accompany such an already expensive press.

The Lee Classic press set up for swaging duty...


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P81300442pix4445autoejector660X-1.jpg

The box spring attachment atop the Lee is my automatic bullet ejector device...called the ABE. Plans available for $15.00 at bigcaddy@centurytel.net

Some parts can also be fabricate by me, if required. Parts to make this ABE unit yourself can be had for less than $20.

Try a Lee Classic press for bullet swaging, you won't be left out side of the swaging loop looking in on at the rich man's toys. :mrgreen:

Jim

[yondering]

I have to ask (out of ignorance), what's the point of swaging cast bullets? Why not just cast the size and shape you want in the first place?

[BrentD]

Jim,
That is pretty cool. What sort of bullet shapes can you do? Smooth ogive bullets?

Can you extrude with it?

[Swagerman]

Jim,
That is pretty cool. What sort of bullet shapes can you do? Smooth ogive bullets?

Can you extrude with it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can make any nose shape bullet I want...as long as I have the proper nose punch inserted into the shell holder as seen in my last picture...SWC, tapered or round nose ogive, total wad cutter or anything I can dream up. Can also do hollow pointing or hollow basing on a cast bullet...as long as one has the proper nose punch or ejector stem.

The Lee Classic press is shown with a modified shell holder that utilizes a Herter's type shell holder. But I'm set up to use both types of shell holders as my two pictures show...and I use them both.

You might could call it extruding when the bullet gets stretched up from .38 caliber to .44 or .45 caliber...but it is not true extruding as that process works. This bumping up concept is merely squashing the bullet into nose punch and swaging die body that is greater diameter.

The neat thing about that function is a larger gas check can be attached and swaged onto the bullets base...as in this picture shows a really small bullet weight of 158 grains being swaged into a .44 caliber bullet.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PA20000438spl148grto155gr44spl.jpg

Jim

[Buckshot]

................Hey Jim, I think I recognize that die :-)

yondering, "I have to ask (out of ignorance), what's the point of swaging cast bullets? Why not just cast the size and shape you want in the first place?"

There is a finite number of designs out there. Possibly what you want hasn't been made, or is NLA? By swaging you can alter a design into something more akin (or exactly) to what you want. That's another reason some of us have been close to financial ruin, via the "Group Buy" custom mould forum, HA!

What mdi mentioned wanting to do, especially 223 bullets means he's going to need a dedicated swaging press, and all the effluvium that goes along with creating jacketed bullets, along with drawing 22 RF cases for jackets etc.

...............Buckshot

[BrentD]

If you are using just lead bullets, swaging allows you to try bullets of different lengths and weights at no extra cost and with different nose and base shapes with relatively little cost. You cannot, however, swage grooved bullets reasonably and in the end moulds are really pretty cheap in comparison. Even custom moulds from the best makers are pretty cheap compared to a new set of swaging dies, unless you can make your own.

Brent

[Earl Brasse]

I got lucky & my local shop had a Corbin press that looked like new laying on the floor for $80. It followed me home. I've been casting for years, now I'm thinking @ swaging too. I guess I'll have to start looking closer @ those misc. boxes for swaging as well as casting stuff.

[mdi]

Well, I found a swaging die for 44 mag SWC so I ordered it (under $100.00 from The Shooter's Shack via ebay). 7/8 x 14 so I can use it in my C-H press. It has two die inserts; one for flat base and one for that looks like swaging the base to accept zinc washers. Comes with jackets and some zinc gas checks. Looks like I'm gonna make some boolits! I guess I'll just read as much as I can and experiment with this set-up and if I like it I'll get a dedicated swaging press and dies.