My fabricated smelting pot, lot's of pics

[Road_Clam]

Thought I would share my pot. First off after MUCH research I need to give credit to CB's "BigBlack" for the basic valve concept idea. I did modify BB's design to what I think will work sweet.

Pour valve: 1"X1"x3.5" key stock. cross drilled using a CSK 1/2-13 UNC allen head screw, and 1/4" NPT outlet
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/IMG_20170225_064041395_zpszt6un9ii.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/IMG_20170225_064041395_zpszt6un9ii.jpg.html)




Main body is 8" schedule 40 black pipe. milled a 1" square slot for the valve assembly:
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/IMG_20170225_085618253_zpsr7rgfja6.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/IMG_20170225_085618253_zpsr7rgfja6.jpg.html)

Upper valve rod bracket is removable so I can remove the CSK screw and rod assembly for cleaning:
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/IMG_20170225_082733403_zps4f0xwvqc.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/IMG_20170225_082733403_zps4f0xwvqc.jpg.html)

Inside pic :
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/IMG_20170225_091506621_zpsnkk3mca7.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/IMG_20170225_091506621_zpsnkk3mca7.jpg.html)

Outside pic :
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/IMG_20170225_091513048_zpsiorpcofh.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/IMG_20170225_091513048_zpsiorpcofh.jpg.html)

I went with a .5" thick pot bottom thinking it will add better heating stability :
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/IMG_20170228_125133081_zpsrgvg3msb.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/IMG_20170228_125133081_zpsrgvg3msb.jpg.html)

I positioned the valve handle to operate outside the pot so as to keep my hand as far away from the heat source as posible
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/IMG_20170228_125125634_zpsiq5ote62.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/IMG_20170228_125125634_zpsiq5ote62.jpg.html)

Planning on my first smelting session this weekend if it's not too cold.

[rancher1913]

neat. keep posting photos, its great to "see" what your talking about.

[lightman]

Nice looking work! Anxious to hear how it works.

[Chill Wills]

Both the concept and your work look good.
What are you using for heat?

[jeepyj]

Looking good so far. Keep us posted.

[PaulG67]

I like it. when I rebuild my smelting pot I will use some of your idea. thanks.

[308Jeff]

Love it

[country gent]

Nice looking job there. Is it going to sit on a stand or legs and stand welded to the base plate? Looks real nice. Maybe find a big spring to set around the handle with a short bushing in each end like a welders chisel. Would help keep it cool and not burn.

[copdills]

thats the stuff right there great job

[Road_Clam]

Both the concept and your work look good.
What are you using for heat?

I purchased a basic propane burner :
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Stansport-Single-Burner-Cast-Iron-Stove-/142284244880?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253 DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2 526meid%253Da8815c34cd3e4422a47144d8e87522df%2526p id%253D100408%2526rk%253D2%2526rkt%253D25%2526sd%2 53D191843977505&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

I already have an auxiliary 40# propane tank so I should be good to go.

[Road_Clam]

Maybe find a big spring to set around the handle with a short bushing in each end like a welders chisel. Would help keep it cool and not burn.

I also cut a piece of 1/2" schedule 40 x 4" long 316 stainless pipe to use as a protective sleeve against the hot valve rod. Got this tip from the my welder buddy who actually welded up my pot. Keep the 4" sleeve in a cup of water, use the loose sleeve as needed to actuate the valve handle. I fabricated the valve rod out of Monel so it will resist heat warpage.

[Road_Clam]

Thanks for all the positive feedback, unfortunately for me my work is closing the doors after almost 80 years of pump manufacturing. The good is the fact I have access to a **** ton of free materials (like what can be used to fab a smelting pot) !

[Chill Wills]

"Keep the 4" sleeve in a cup of water, use the loose sleeve as needed to actuate the valve handle."

If I understand correctly - Please be careful with water over the top of your pot.

[Idz]

How do you folks keep the valve clean? The junk I smelt is full of jackets, cases, steel bits, sand, etc. Some crud floats and some seems to sink leaving clean lead in the middle. Do you presort the scrap?

[308Jeff]

It looks like his valve is elevated about an inch, which should do a good job of keeping the stubborn stuff that doesn't float away from it.

[Road_Clam]

"Keep the 4" sleeve in a cup of water, use the loose sleeve as needed to actuate the valve handle."

If I understand correctly - Please be careful with water over the top of your pot.

Good tip, water drops and molten lead is dangerous. Maybe just skip the "in the water" aspect. My intent is to not keep the sleeve constantly on the handle as it will get hot as well.

[308Jeff]

So.... Once this is a proven concept, any chance you might be considering fabbing a few and selling them to those of us who lack your skill set? :-)

[Road_Clam]

So.... Once this is a proven concept, any chance you might be considering fabbing a few and selling them to those of us who lack your skill set? :-)


I value our friendship, if I were to throw a $$ number at you after material costs, a Dunkin Donuts gift card for my welder co-worker, some modest $ for my machining time and lastly shipping a 30# item , we would then be enemies. ;)

[308Jeff]

Hahaha! Roger that.

[lightman]

I like the idea of the spring on the handle better than the water cooled piece. Like the handle of a chipping hammer. Sorry to hear your company is closing. With your skills you won't be unemployed very long!

[Road_Clam]

I like the idea of the spring on the handle better than the water cooled piece. Like the handle of a chipping hammer. Sorry to hear your company is closing. With your skills you won't be unemployed very long!
I'm going back and fourth between a permanent metal spring or a wood handle. I'm a bit concerned wood could catch on fire. I'm going to do a few smelt sessions and observe how hot the handle gets then make my final decision .

[Skooterr]

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/dmystix/Stove%20Handle%20Spring_zpscdxcgjby.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/dmystix/media/Stove%20Handle%20Spring_zpscdxcgjby.jpg.html)

[deepwater]

Very cleaver design and excellent fabrication.

IF I interpret the valve correctly, the entire Inconel arm/screw assembly can be lifted out of the 1" sq. valve body. IF so, I suggest a hole drilled in the Inconel arm, below the removable top piece, for a cotter pin & washer to prevent the entire thing from inadvertently being lifted out of the valve body when full of lead.

[Road_Clam]

Very cleaver design and excellent fabrication.

IF I interpret the valve correctly, the entire Inconel arm/screw assembly can be lifted out of the 1" sq. valve body. IF so, I suggest a hole drilled in the Inconel arm, below the removable top piece, for a cotter pin & washer to prevent the entire thing from inadvertently being lifted out of the valve body when full of lead.

Not sure i'm following your comment. The Monel rod is welded to the 1/2-13 CSK bolt. The bolt is threaded into the key. There is no way to "pull out" the rod ? You can "unscrew" the rod/bolt from the valve but it takes about 4 complete turns to remove the bolt. Here's a pic of the valve actuator handle removed :

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af54/richkay228/DSCF03881_zpss1dpx1uc.jpg (http://s993.photobucket.com/user/richkay228/media/DSCF03881_zpss1dpx1uc.jpg.html)

[country gent]

Okay the handle turns to open and close like a faucet not lifted straight up to open

[deepwater]

Okay the handle turns to open and close like a faucet not lifted straight up to open

Also my thoughts.

I could not tell if it lifted up or it threaded into the lower section.

I am sure it will work just fine. Screwing it down will make a positive seal. It is just a little cumbersome. That said, our hobby is not a production experience and safety is paramount.

Regardless, I think you designed and built a wonderful unit.

[deepwater]

If that is the case, you will be able to spin the lever with a gloved finger, or a hand held stick, without too much concern for heat.

[country gent]

For pouring ingots it will be a handy set up A 1/2 turn should open valve about .050 a full turn will be around .076-.077 opened. .050 on the circumference of the flat head should allow for a good flow.

[Road_Clam]

Any ideas as to how I should construct the 1/4" npt nozzle outlet? Straight exit? 90 degree downward exit? Not sure what I should do .

[deepwater]

90 degree.
More pin-point control, less splash and no "drip" forming.
Waste and accidents go down, not out towards person.

[rancher1913]

will the valve completely empty the pot or do you just leave a residual amount in the bottom.

[country gent]

I would also go 90* spout for the reason as the pot levels changes the streams force will also change due to force pushing it. A straight at the start of a full pot may over shoot and at end of pot may fall short. The 90* spout will make the "entry" point the same.

[country gent]

Another option would be a 45* elbow

[Road_Clam]

OK so i'll get a 90 elbow. Last question should I get an npt threaded cap and drill the cap to allow a smaller orifice flow than say just the open 1/4" pipe ?

[fivegunner]

Hi nice looking rig , thanks for posting:lovebooli

[country gent]

That will depend on your ingot mould. small ingots may need a slower flow but anything 1LB or more the full flow should be a help. Also restricting the flow will allow more cooling to happen I believe I would install a short 1/4" nipple in it and let it run. If you leave threads on each end the drilled cap can be installed and removed easily when needed. Pouring smaller ingots of tin or pewter it may be helpful.

[truckerdave397]

will the valve completely empty the pot or do you just leave a residual amount in the bottom.
Looks like it will leave one inch of lead in the pot unless it is tipped.

[308Jeff]

As it should.

[rancher1913]

As it should.

so what happens when you want to use a different alloy. :groner:

[BK7saum]

So, does the lead only flow when the screw is completely unthreaded and then lifted out of the valve body? How is that going to affect flow? All or none?

On my pot, I copied the Lee pot, more or less, and used a tapered rod. I can pour an 8lb ingot in just a few seconds or only lift the rod a little to pour smaller 1 lb ingots.

Have you consider shortening the screw to only 2 threads to limit the number of turns to unscrew the valve? I think I'd get tired of spinning the valve open and closed between ingot molds, that is if I've grasped how the valve works.

Nice fab. Brad

[truckerdave397]

Easy to see the lead flow is around the head of the screw as it raises when it is unscrewed. Half turn or so on the handle gets the lead flowing.
Great design.

[Budzilla 19]

If i looked at the pictures correctly, the valve is only threaded on the bottom, the top of the valve body has a chamfer cut to match the screw head profile. Unscrew the rod one turn and the valve only opens the amount of one turn of the threads. Pretty ingenious in my book, I bet it works awesome!

[BK7saum]

Easy to see the lead flow is around the head of the screw as it raises when it is unscrewed. Half turn or so on the handle gets the lead flowing.
Great design.
It is not that easy to see on the screen of my phone. After Budzilla 19s explanation, I was able to make out the details of the valve body. On my screen, the picture is a little dark and not exactly crisp. When I enlarge, it only gets more blurry.

I can see now that the upper portion of the valve body is larger than the thread major diameter by quite a bit.

Brad

[Road_Clam]

I drilled the upper segment of the clearence hole to .593". I checked the flow with water and it works perfect. The 82 degree angle of the countersink stops the water flow and seals off flow nicely. Could not test this past weekend as temps were well below freezing. I'll post a vid when I get it up and melting!

[BK7saum]

Thank you Road Clam for providing that information.

[country gent]

Once the surfaces wear together it shouldn't take much force for a good leak proof seal.

[Road_Clam]

Should I put some anti seize on the threads of the countersink bolt or is that not a good idea? I'm concerned about the bolt threads jamming up.

[BK7saum]

I don't know that I would unless a problem presented itself. It would probably burn off in short order.

If you end up backing the screw out too far and disengage the threads, do you have any relief port for the lead to flow out of the threaded valve body when screwing the valve screw back down?

[finstr]

Should I put some anti seize on the threads of the countersink bolt or is that not a good idea? I'm concerned about the bolt threads jamming up.

A little graphite on the threads can't hurt. Keep in mind that lead, like copper is a bearing material. Once you do your first smelt the molten lead will fill the voids around the threads.
Btw that's a great design. The only concern I might have is the amount of thread you have in the bottom of the block vs the amount of leverage you have with that long handle. It would suck to pull the threads out of the block and not be able to shut the valve off thus emptying the entire pot. But hey, that's what prototypes are all about!
ps. those are some really nice looking TIG welds!

[Spector]

Any advantage to threading the the portion in the valve block rather than threading the portion in the upper guide instead other than the molten lead working as a lubricant? Just wondering if the valve would have fewer potential problems with no threads in the valve.

Mike

[Taterhead]

This is pretty neat project. Nice work. Thanks for the show and tell.

[Iron Whittler]

Great looking pot. If I may make a suggestion on your valve assembly. Instead of using a screw at the bottom for a valve, how about making a taper on the valve handle at the bottom and thread the handle where it goes through the upper support. Threads will not be in the molten lead and can be lubed with graphite from time to time for smooth operation. Just a suggestion. Keep us posted on how it works out. Iron Whittler

[flint45]

I like what you have done good job. Self built stuff is awesome keep it up.