Reload PPU 9x18 Makarov?

[Themoose]

I picked up a P64 9x18 at a gunshow with some dies, brass and berry plated bullets to get me started... being anxious, I also wanted to pick up some factory ammo... found a dealer with about 4 different offerings... only wanted something to due some initial shooting not critical self defense and wanted something that was boxer primed and reloadable... he steered me to PPU(made in Serbia, I think).... rounds seemed a little hot and had some problems with deformed brass, but when I went to deprime, I had problems with both the lee die that I just purchased and a universal depriming die thatg I already had... brass wasn't berdan, but had a strange dome on the inside of the bottom... I finally just took a 1/16" punch and removed the primers... I resized the brass to use as dummy rounds for setting the seat depth and crimp.... anyone have any experience with the PPU brand in 9x18 Makarov... found on a search that others had same problem with brass bulge due to either weak brass or hot loads... is it safe to use for reloading or should I just use it for construction of dummy rounds or the junk pile?

Thanks for your help

[adcoch1]

I bought a bunch of ppu to shoot up and reload so I hope it's not bad brass. I am wondering if you have the right bullets though, I haven't seen Berry's for the 9x18, being as 9x18 is a larger diameter bullet than 9x19. Just checking, cause Berry's makes good bullets, and maybe I need to look harder for bullets for my P64...

[Themoose]

They are for the 9x18 Makarov and are .364". I got them from a dealer at the gunshow who repackaged the bullets into bags of 250. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the PPU brass... about 1/3 of the rounds I fired showed a "Pregnant" appearance on one side... think it looks a lot like the feed ramp....in shape..

[lar45]

A picture of the bulge might be helpful.
Maybe inspect the chamber and see if someone bubba'd the feed ramp with a dremel and went hog wild on it. I bought a nice EAA CZ-75 clone 9mm at a police auction once that had that problem. The fired brass had a huge bulge on one side due to the feed ramp being ground and polished way too far.
Are there replacement barrels for your P64? I have an East German and a Russian Mak, and I've seen 380 and 9x18 replacement barrels for them. I think they are pressed into the frame and have one pin that holds them in place. Don't know how hard it would be to replace one.

[Lagamor]

I've had that exact same problem with Mak PPU brass when I shoot my P-64(one of my favorite guns). I have PPU brass in other calibers and they don't do that, plus none of the other Mak brass brands I bought do that, so I know it's not the gun.
I don't know why that use soft brass for that round.
For what it's worth, I trim 9x19 down to 9x18 and it works great. Plus, there are empty Lugers laying on the ground for free at every gun range in 'Merica. (I couldn't get the lee power quick trim to work for me. Ended up with a Wilson, which is slow, it cuts +/- 0.001 every single time.)

[charlie b]

I like my little P64 too but don't load for it so I've never noticed brass issues. Will have to check next time I go to the range. I need to fire off some of my SD ammo so will look at it closer. My plinking ammo is all steel case stuff.

[lar45]

If it's just the soft brass, then resizing it might help to work harden it.
If you are trimming 9x19 brass down, then you could put a 1/4 or 5/16 bolt in a vise, put your new shorter brass over it and and use a number stamp to mark the case head so you don't get them mixed up with regular 9x19 brass.
Back before regular .364" Mak bullets were availible, I would trim down 9x19 brass and load with a .356" 115 JHP, useing top end 380 data. I know the bullets are way undersized, but they seemed to shoot fine in both my East German and Russian Maks.

[Wayne Smith]

I use the Lee chuck for the quick trim in my drill motor and one of the wooden ball handles for the cutter. I've done hundreds of 9mm and only had to periodically clean and oil the chuck to keep it running.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Wayne: I also used that setup to do 500 9MM cases to Mak. The 9x18 pilot that Lee makes has to have the base turned down so it will fit into the case mouth of the Luger case so it doesn't mark the case mouth. But other than that it was the easiest way to trim those cases I found and I looked pretty hard at all the methods I have in my Machine Shop. Lathes, mills drill presses and the best way turns out to be a $20 little chuck and cordless drill.

Randy

[GONRA]

Have you guys with sizing die problems checked the primer pocket flash hole diameter?
GONRA has found smaller than normal flash holes in some brass....
Gotta use a smaller diameter "slip fit" decapping pin.

[Themoose]

I will check that tomorrow... Does anyone reload ppu 9X18 brass?

[jrayborn]

Yes, I do. I have been trying to come up with some useful information that could be of help to you but I just cannot understand why you are having problems with this brass. I have had no issues whatsoever and really wish I had some good advice for you.

All I can say is trimming down 9X19 is what I do to any nickle plated 9mm brass I come across. Just easier than getting "real" Mak brass and cheaper in the long run. The nickle plate makes it simple for me to keep them separate from 9X19.

Wish I had more info for you.

[Themoose]

GONRA was spot on with the flash hole size being the problem in depriming... I do not have a set of pin guages that big, but a 5/64 drill bit will closely fit a new starline 9/18 brass, but will not go thru the PPU... I knocked out the primers on the remaining PPU fired brass with a 1/16" punch... the decapping pin on the die as well as the universal depriming die(both Lee) will not fit into the "domed" center of the flash hole on the inside... I do mean that there is a "domed" shape to the center of the inside base where the flash hole is... it is obviously different that standard brass... I now have 200 new Starline 9x18 brass to use and will just not used fired PPU for the time being... I suppose I could drill out the flash hole, but still thinking the PPU brass is weak... will see if I have the same issue with Starline... some online searches lead me to believe that it is a PPU issue with weak brass...

thanks to all who have submitted responses... I will keep in mind you suggestions for converting 9mm standard brass to 9x18 for future consideration...

Again, thanks one and all who assisted.

Kindest regards,

Themoose

[Themoose]

Problem solved... Today I got a chance to go to the range with some loads I made with new Starline 9x18 brass.. I shot 3.0 and 3.3gr Bullseye with 95Gr Berry's and 95gr Hornady XTP... shot a few over 50 and had no bulged brass... appears that the PPU brass is the culprit... I will not even try to reload it...Starline is currently available or I can always cut down 9mm Luger...

[Wayne Smith]

Wayne: I also used that setup to do 500 9MM cases to Mak. The 9x18 pilot that Lee makes has to have the base turned down so it will fit into the case mouth of the Luger case so it doesn't mark the case mouth. But other than that it was the easiest way to trim those cases I found and I looked pretty hard at all the methods I have in my Machine Shop. Lathes, mills drill presses and the best way turns out to be a $20 little chuck and cordless drill.

Randy
I discovered the size problem but do this next to my press with the MAK expender die in it. I simply run the 9mm brass into the Mak expander and start cutting.

[RG1911]

Interesting. The last time I loaded 9X18 Mak I used WW brass. I do reload PPU brass in 7.62X25 with no problems for a Tokarev. Unlike the Starline 7.62X25 brass, the primer pockets do not go way oversize after 4 firings.

Because I like the PPU brass for my Tok, I'll have to find some PPU Makarov brass and see what happens in my Russian Mak.

Cheers,
Richard

[Gee_Wizz01]

I bought a bunch of ppu to shoot up and reload so I hope it's not bad brass. I am wondering if you have the right bullets though, I haven't seen Berry's for the 9x18, being as 9x18 is a larger diameter bullet than 9x19. Just checking, cause Berry's makes good bullets, and maybe I need to look harder for bullets for my P64...
I have used some PUP in my Russian Mak and have no problems with bulged cases. I have seen small flash holes which I clean up with a flash hole debuting tool, which is just a center drill used in machine shops. I mount the tool in a cordless drill and enlarge the hole with the primer still in place. The case bulges could be caused by a weak recoil spring. In my experience many of the surplus "comm block" pistols have weak springs. A stronger spring will also reduce the ejection force of pistol, whitch helps keep the brass in the same zip code. I have purchased Starline brass and it is the best Mak brass made, however I hate losing it. These days I just trim down 9mm Luger range pick up brasa an don't worry about it if I can't find.

Good luck the Maks are fun to shoot!

If it's just the soft brass, then resizing it might help to work harden it.
If you are trimming 9x19 brass down, then you could put a 1/4 or 5/16 bolt in a vise, put your new shorter brass over it and and use a number stamp to mark the case head so you don't get them mixed up with regular 9x19 brass.
Back before regular .364" Mak bullets were availible, I would trim down 9x19 brass and load with a .356" 115 JHP, useing top end 380 data. I know the bullets are way undersized, but they seemed to shoot fine in both my East German and Russian Maks.


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