Ruger Vaqueros conversion 45 acp (reloading)

[Falconpunch]

Long story short, I sent my cylinders to Doug and had them reamed out. My boolits actually fit my cylinders now!.

I'm still having slightly the same problem. If I don't do a really heavy crimp and seat them to Minimum spec my rounds do this in the chamber (see pic).

I reload 44 mag to for a blackhawk and don't see these problems at all. I feel like the case is catching in the cylinder that's why I have to do a heavy crimp. I shot about 20 rounds with heavy crimp and they shot fine and I didn't die so I'm happy. Is it because i'm taper crimping these rounds instead of roll? My 44, 38/357 didn't have these kind of issues with reloading.

Reloading casted/PC 200 gr SWC and 230gr plated berry bullets. Both are same way. Seating casted to 1.225 and berrys to 1.2205

[DougGuy]

Is the case hanging up on the chamber before the boolit gets into the throat? Something isn't right there. The ONLY way those cannot plunk is if the boolits are over .452" in any measurement in front of the case mouth. Those throats are .4525" and if you got a boolit with a little oval profile from the parting lines or whatever, and it measures greater than .4525" it will hang in the throats and not want to plunk. Check your sizes just in front of the case mouth and make sure nothing is greater than .452."

What do your cased mic across the end of the case when crimped normally? .472" or .474" is about the norm. If they are greater than this, they may not want to go all the way to the headspace ledge in there. I usually do not check chamber dimensions when throating, rarely is a problem like this even noted.. I DO have two different 45 ACP finishing reamers, so if the boolits are crimped normally and mic out at .472" and they still don't want to chamber, you can make some dummies and send the cylinder back and lets see what exactly is causing the interference..

You should taper crimp an autopistol round, not roll crimp. Should not have to use Factory crimp die on it either.

Also, you should try and push your boolits through the throats from the front, kinda like a go/no-go gauge. They should all go through freely with finger pressure. You should be able to lay the cylinder down, push 6 boolits into the throats easily with your fingers, pick it up and turn it facing down, they should all drop freely out of the cylinder. If they either have resistance going into the throats or not dropping free, then the boolits are larger than .452" and will cause issues just like what you are showing us in the photo..

[Tackleberry41]

Sounds like your over crimping. You cant use a whole lot w taper crimp. OAL length should not be an issue at all in that cyl.

[siamese4570]

Falconpunch: I've been on the same journey with my ruger 45 convertible. Dougguy did the throats on both the 45 LC and 45ACP and they work great. The problem that I had is that on the 45acp (when shooting lead) would scrape a little bit of lead off on the shoulder that the case head spaces on. After a couple of shots, you couldn't chamber a round (similar to your pic). I made a little brass scraper to remove the little lead ring but have never solved the problem. Try this, scrub the cylinder with a snug bore brush and then see if the round will chamber. That's usually all it took to get it out of mine. Siamese4570

[DougGuy]

^^^^ The only thing that will cause lead shaving, is if A.) your boolit is slightly larger than the throat, or B.) the alloy is quite soft and the pressure upon ignition is "bumping up" the diameter of the boolit as it is fired, causing it to be larger than throat diameter.

In either case, any of the boolit that is greater than the .4525" throat diameter, can be shaved off causing the ringing at the end of the chamber.

[Outpost75]

I use a .410 shotgun bore brush with Kroil to clean and de-lead .44 and .45 cylinders...

[Dale53]

Many try to seat the bullet and crimp at the same time. THAT will also cause the issue that the O.P. is experiencing. I have a Ruger SS Bisley convertible .45 ACP/.45 Colt. I, too, had to ream my cylinders with a "made for the task" Manson reamer kit complete with pilots. Before reaming, I couldn't chamber my .45 ACP rounds with my home cast .452" bullets.

I seat the bullets, THEN taper crimp to a mouth outside diameter of .470". I have NO problems with leading or build up of any kind. Further, my revolver, with either cylinder and a variety of loads will shoot under an inch at 25 yards off a rest.

Since DougGuy reamed the cylinders I seriously doubt that it is a gun problem. Sounds like a reloading problem to me.

If a lead bullet is seated and crimped at the same time, it can push a ring of lead ahead of the case and cause the exact problem the O.P. is experiencing. To clarify, seat the bullets and then crimp in a separate die and separate operation. I use both a Dillon 550D and a Lee Classic turret press with a four die set up without issue.

For the record, I also use the Lee Factory Crimp die...

FWIW
Dale53

[Falconpunch]

I do crimp with the Lee factory crimp die and seat with a different die. Doug helped me majorly because I couldn't even push a .452 bullet through the cylinder and now I can with ease. I reload for 8 calibers and this is the only caliber where I've had seating issues.

This is not happening with just Lead bullets, it's happening with plated bullets to if I don't crimp them to 470-471. You can see the crimp markings on the rounds when complete. If this is normal for this cylinder that it needs this much crimp then that's all I need to know. Also there is not shavings coming from my Lead rounds, plated or the cases. I've just never had to crimp this hard to get a round to seat in a cylinder before.

[DougGuy]

If you want to send the cylinder back again, I can pin out the chambers and see if they are on the tight side as well. If you can't crimp to .472" and have them plunk, then they may need to be gone through with the Manson finishing reamer which would resize any under SAAMI spec chambers and make them where a .452" seated and crimped with a standard taper crimp would plunk.

Since this is the first 45 ACP cylinder I have done that has been questionable as to why rounds aren't freely plunking and have to be over crimped, it clearly isn't a problem with the throats as .452" push easily into the throats but the chambers themselves could be a tad on the tight side or a tad out of round. Either way the finishing reamer would clean up and correct any discrepancies.

[Char-Gar]

I have two SA revolvers with 45 ACP cylinders installed. Ed Harris published a piece about lapping the rear of the throats to remove any burrs there and create a little tapered cone.

I did as he suggested and using a 30-06 case and 600 grit emery paste lapped the entrance to the throats. This removed any burrs and created a .0005 taper at the throat mouth. Rounds with correct bullets (.452) will now "plunk" and there is no lead shaving at the throat mouth.

The less than round bullets that Doug mentioned can be an issue. My Ruger 45 Flattop has .452 throats in the 45 ACP cylinder and some rounds need a little encouragement from the thumb to seat properly. My U.S.Pts.F.A. has .453) throats and slightly oval .452 bullets cause no problems.

[Dale53]

Taper crimping to .470" is NOT over crimping.I have been doing it for years with my 1911's as well as my Ruger convertible and pair of 625's. All of those will, on demand, group under 1" at 25 yards off a rest and
I get NO LEADING or other difficulties. I was taught the finer points of reloading the .45 ACP by the boys of the Advanced Marksmanship unit at
Camp Perry.

Dale53


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[DougGuy]

Ok, bottom line is this.. Crimp until it plunks, but do it with a dummy round, then pull the boolit and mic what you got after pulling a few. Try this with cast and/or plated. *IF* being crimped to .470" lets it plunk, AND there is no swaging of the boolit inside the case, which you would measure after pulling a few, then you are good to go. There is no harm in a firm crimp, OR even a factory crimp, AS LONG AS the boolit inside the case is not being sized down from the .452" you started with..

IF it causes the boolit to be swaged down in diameter as the crimp is applied, JUST to get it to plunk, then send the cylinder back with a few dummies, it has issues in the chambers themselves that need to be measured and possibly finish reamed.

[Dale53]

DougGuy;
I don't mean to be argumentative, at all. I have always wondered (since I can't be inside the cartridge when it fires to see what REALLY happens) if the case really will size down a bullet when fired. It is possible, that when the cartridge fires, it may expand the case before the bullet even moves and just simply releases the bullet. That is, as opposed to the commonly held believe that the case will size down the bullet like it can when a bullet is pulled.

I would suggest something just a bit different. Crimp the case to .470" outside diameter at the mouth and load up enough to test. Then fire them off a rest. If you get the accuracy you need without leading, then you are "good to go".

Just a thought...
Dale53

[DougGuy]

I would suggest something just a bit different. Crimp the case to .470" outside diameter at the mouth and load up enough to test. Then fire them off a rest. If you get the accuracy you need without leading, then you are "good to go".

Just a thought...
Dale53

And that works too! There is usually more than one approach that works with handloads and cast boolits. I didn't take your post as being argumentative at all. Guns are different, can't assume what works for one will automatically work for another one just like it.

[johnson1942]

i dont know if this will help or not but when im done crimping again i run all my case through the reloading die that takes the primer out but of course i take that primer rod out. i run them right up to the bottom on the case or just to the top of the rim, you get the point. then they fit in all 4 of my cowboy gun. if i dont do this my 38 specials, 45 long colt and 44/40s seem to fatten up during the loading process. then they just drop right in when i do this. on one of ubertil colt the case would hang up when it came to the loading gate so i polished that out with a felt tool and my dremel tool. it is good on all revolvers to polish the part where the case rims rub on as the cylinder turns. i even had to do this years ago on my s and w model 17 22 target or it would hang up. i dont know if any of this helps but you never know.

[Falconpunch]

Great news! I bought a micro meter like Doug said to do. Played with my crimp die and got it adjusted to crimp 471.5ish pretty much. It plunks in each hole and falls right out. Before I was using my calipers to see what crimp was and that was off by .001. I took hammered the 5 cast dummy out and measured them and they were .451, I'm happy with that and I think its going to do well.

Thank you everyone for the help and Especially DougGuy for Reaming my cylinders and all of the knowledge you have given me.189294
189295

[Dale53]

It sounds like you have the mechanical problems pretty much licked. Now, I'm betting it'll shoot well, too. [emoji1303][emoji1303]


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