38 Special wadcutter brass wall thickness?

[Lead Freak]

I read somewhere that wadcutter brass has a uniform wall thickness further down the wall of the case than standard cases. This makes sense since the objective would be to not to compress the longer cast wadcutter as it is seated in the case. I've checked the wall thickness of many known wadcutter cases against standard cases and can find no measurable difference at all. The only difference that I can see in most, are the canilures that are rolled into the cases for bullet retention. The cases that I have measured would work fine for my Lee WC's, even standard 38 Star Line brass. It has a consistent wall thickness from the top of the case to just below where I normally seat my WC's. What gives?

[Outpost75]

Depends on when the brass was made.

Accurate measurement requires a ball micrometer, as even tiny flats on a caliper will not give a true measurement.

When I set up to prep new cases for wadcutter loads I turn mouths to 0.010" wall; thickness for a depth of 0.50" On most brass you are just uniforming the thick spots and the case won't clean up all the way around.

[Larry Gibson]

For years R-P factory 38 SPL WCs was THE ammo to use for the big PPC matches. It was/is almost impossible to get cast WCs to shoot as well. You could get Swaged WCs to come close though if the R-P cases are used and a correct expander is used. I still have a box of the Remington Factory Match WCs. The cases are a very uniform .0095 - .010 thick from the mouth to the base of the 148 gr swaged HBWC which is seated flush with the case mouth. Pulled bullets measure .355 - .356.

I have an older Lyman set of dies for 38/357 and it has a longer expander that measures .356. I most often use it with PB'd softer .357 sized cast bullets and they don't get swaged down. Many here size the bullets to the cylinder throat size yet do not use a larger expander. They'd probably be real surprised to find out what the cases are then sizing the "fitment" correct bullets to! Many times they'd find the more expensive custom mould and "correct fitment" sizing is all for naught.........that is, if they don't use a large expander so the cases don't size the bullets back down.......

Larry Gibson

[Outpost75]

When I was actively shooting Bullseye the very best bullets were the Winchester and Remington 148-grain HBWC component bullets and we loaded once-fired Remington Targetmaster or Winchester Super-Match brass on a Star machine with either 2.8 grains of Bullseye, 3.2 grains of 452AA or 3.5 grains of W231, flush seated and profile crimped to .378". Bullets were .359-.360 out of the 2000 bulk box, and when pulled from loaded rounds after profile crimping they measured .3580-.3585"

We were shooting these rounds in S&W M52 and Hammerli 240 pistols and from a Ransom Rest our best hand loads would average under 2 inches at 50 yards over a long series of more than ten consecutive 10-shot groups. We also tested ammo in a Martini Cadet action with 16" twist Green Mountain full 0.9" cylindrical bull barrel 20 inches long, off sandbags with 10X Unertl target scope and off sandbags the BSA-Martini could shoot under 1-1/2" at 50 yards in an underground tunnel for a long series of 10-shot groups.

The very best factory wadcutter I ever tested was Remington-Bridgeport Targetmaster given to me by the late LTC Ellis Lea, (USA, Ret.) when I was on the NRA Tech Staff and he gave us a case of ammo which was used by the highly successful USA Shooting Team (which Ellis coached) at the 40th World Shooting Championships in Mexico City. THAT lot of ammo averaged 1.36" from the Hammerli 240 and 1.18" for fifty consecutive rounds fired in five consecutive 10-shot groups at 50 yards in the tunnel range.

For those who want to know, the BSA Martini and the Hammerli BOTH had chambers resembling the .38 AMU, being a Min. SAAMI .38 Special chamber body with 0 degree, 45 minutes Basic forcing cone, taken directly off the .3785" chamber mouth, with no ball seat.

I still have that Martini slave action and Unertl scope...

[Char-Gar]

I read somewhere that wadcutter brass has a uniform wall thickness further down the wall of the case than standard cases. This makes sense since the objective would be to not to compress the longer cast wadcutter as it is seated in the case. I've checked the wall thickness of many known wadcutter cases against standard cases and can find no measurable difference at all. The only difference that I can see in most, are the canilures that are rolled into the cases for bullet retention. The cases that I have measured would work fine for my Lee WC's, even standard 38 Star Line brass. It has a consistent wall thickness from the top of the case to just below where I normally seat my WC's. What gives?

I don't know what gives, but I have over 4,000 wadcutter cases and they all have longer parallel sides vis-a-vi the standard 38 Special. I use a machinist expanding ball gauge to measure. This gauge will go farther down in the WC case than the Regular case.

The hollow base WC is longer for the weight than the solid base. It is with the longer hollow base that the WC brass really shines. It prevents crushing the hollow base and provides a uniform release of the bullet. WC brass is not so critical with either cast or swaged solid base WC bullets.

I shot Bulleye back in the late 50s and early 60s. Although some handloads were better than other, we didn't shoot matches with them. We practiced with the handloads and shot factory ammo in the matches.

[40-82 hiker]

Depends on when the brass was made.

When I set up to prep new cases for wadcutter loads I turn mouths to 0.010" wall; thickness for a depth of 0.50" On most brass you are just uniforming the thick spots and the case won't clean up all the way around.

I shoot nothing but .38Spl and .357Mag H&G 50 wadcutters in my Colt Trooper MkIII, using only wadcutter brass. I am very happy with my results. However, I have wondered in the past if it would be possible to take regular brass cases and neck ream them to .010" to a depth of 0.5" (your measurements - I'll just use them with your experience and knowledge) to make home grown "wadcutter" brass. Would the "step" left be a source of cracking? Is this a stupid/dangerous/crazy idea? I have plenty of wadcutter brass for now, if there is truly such a thought as "enough" :confused:, but this would make the "search" for them in the future a moot point if it is a viable alternative.

I certainly would have to mark the casings in case found by others at the range, but I already do that with my 30-06 casings I use for fart loads, having drilled out flash holes. For me, no problems as I will never be loading anything but the wadcutter loads anyway.

Just looking for some thoughts on this based on this post.

Moderator:
Don't mean to steal the thread... If this needs to be moved as a new thread please do so or tell me to do so.

[Outpost75]

Reaming is no good because the wall will not be concentric as the cutter will simply follow the hole and any imperfections. What you want to do is size the cases and inside expand them to .358 then force them over a lightly oiled .358" mandrel (tight fit and oiled to prevent galling), then use a Sinclair outside neck turning tool set up at 0.010" taking a light, smooth cut, leaving a slight radius at the base of the cut. Then mouth deburr, flare, degrease, prime and load as usual. After firing the case will have a "step" inside to act as a stop for the bullet base. In a tight chambered match pistol you don't need to resize the brass, just prime and charge cases, drop .360" as-cast, unsized and film coated DEWC bullets into the charged brass, then profile crimp rounds with the Redding profile die or Lee Factory Crimp die. This is the same way wadcuuter is loaded at the factory any by not constantly resizing, expanding, crimping, firing and reloading in the conventional way, with the reduction in cold working cases last forever. I'm still using wadcutter brass from ammo I shot at Camp Perry in tbe 1980s.

As for identification,your outside neck turned brass will be visually distinctive!