Poor Man's Silhouette Rifle

[iplaywithnoshoes]

This is a simple 'build' for an inexpensive big bore for hitting steel.

Thompson Center Encore Stainless Frame
Black Synthetic Furniture
27" Match Grade Machine, .45-70 Barrel, Shilen Blank, Stainless, Full Bull
Modified 1903 Rear sight
Lyman Front Globe

A 26" sight radius, 1-14" twist which can stabilize anything, pistol grip stock, all weather capability, and a reasonable carry weight.

Decent features for a build cost of around $975.

Some pictures! Enjoy!

189175

189176

191917

11 degree target crown

191918

Close-up of sight mounted

191919

Pano of rifle. Anyone recognize anything from the mess in the back?


shoe

[country gent]

That should be a good starting point. It should do very well

[tdoyka]

nice build!!!! i have a handi rifle in 45-70 that only goes 1400fps using a 405gr fbfn. i only have only did it at ruger #1 type pressure and i can only say, OOOOOUUUUUUCCCCCCHHHHHH!!! i just stay at trapdoor loads, its much better for me!!! what kind of loads do you use?

mine will be a 500 linebaugh in 23" MGM heavy barrel. i want to put skinner sights(front and back) on it. i just got to see if MGM does a dovetail(front sight) or a ramp.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

nice build!!!! i have a handi rifle in 45-70 that only goes 1400fps using a 405gr fbfn. i only have only did it at ruger #1 type pressure and i can only say, OOOOOUUUUUUCCCCCCHHHHHH!!! i just stay at trapdoor loads, its much better for me!!! what kind of loads do you use?

mine will be a 500 linebaugh in 23" MGM heavy barrel. i want to put skinner sights(front and back) on it. i just got to see if MGM does a dovetail(front sight) or a ramp.

Thank you guys! I use trapdoor pressures but there are plenty of loads I have shot through this at 1500-1600fps at low pressures and they definitely wake you up.

I tried some loads last week, trapdoor only for 405gr in the middle of the loading range: Varget, Trail Boss, IMR 3031, H4198, 5744.
Trail Boss, H4198 and Varget gave me the best accuracy in 405gr despite a little little bore trash. Unique is also quite good.

I also cooked up some 500gr loads at trapdoor levels and the gun really likes Reloader 7. I'm sticking with that from now on in that bullet weight. Recoil for all non-Trail Boss was like a .308.
The gun still weighs less than 9 lbs I think even with the Bull Barrel.

That sounds like a fun build! And yes, they will actually cut the dovetails for you if you provide them the sight and can fit about any sight you provide them. I had an extra dovetail cut for a skinner long range sight in the future. For now, I just use the existing scope mounts for my 03' sight.

shoe

[mcdaniel.mac]

I like the way you think. What was modified about the 03 sight, just fitment?

[Dryball]

Did you do the barrel-stub thing? I've always wanted to do that

[M-Tecs]

One of these will help with adjusting the sight http://www.buffaloarms.com/PJ_Ohare_1903_Sight_Adjuster_pr-9131.aspx

[iplaywithnoshoes]

I like the way you think. What was modified about the 03 sight, just fitment?

Thank you! I took the sight collar/tube and cut it down. Since the inner collar/tube diameter and breech diameter were different, I had a custom shim machined to interface the two. I drilled the hole pattern in both then mounted them to the barrel. I'll post some pics tonight.


Did you do the barrel-stub thing? I've always wanted to do that

No stub, just a collar cut, interface and fit! I put a little bit of beeswax on the sliding surfaces to get a tighter fit too.


One of these will help with adjusting the sight http://www.buffaloarms.com/PJ_Ohare_1903_Sight_Adjuster_pr-9131.aspx

That is super neat.
I think I know my next purchase now. Definitely easier than constantly tightening and loosening the lock screw.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

189818

[mattri]

What kind of accuracy are you seeing?

[iplaywithnoshoes]

What kind of accuracy are you seeing?
When using the right powder and consistent trigger pull, holes touching at 100yds with 405gr Oregon Trail. 500gr Acme FPs are closer to 1.5-2.0" consistently. I cannot even make out shapes on the target at that distance so it might be a fluke. Photo evidence coming soon.

[EDG]

You can buy a nice but used Pedersoli for that kind of money.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

You can buy a nice but used Pedersoli for that kind of money.

If you showed me a posting on Armslist or Gunbroker (No decent gun stores here in IL), I would be inclined to agree. If I had found a reasonable price on a Lyman Sharps or Pedersoli Rolling Block, High Wall Sharps etc, I would not have even considered building this. At the current stage of life, I cannot yet justify $1800 on a used reproduction rifle that I cannot service or get parts for without a gunsmith (smiths in IL are now afraid to touch anyone's gun beyond a trigger job or scope mount), or sending the gun to Italy. I have access to a good network through TC Addicts and BellmTCs for parts and upgrade kits so I can build up the rifle at a whim.

I am sure that many forum members enjoy excellent experiences with Pedersolis, Ubertis, Shilohs and C Sharps. Those are still way beyond my price range and the manufacturers can't even decide if smokeless powder is even safe in those guns.
With this build, I have a rifle that can safely take BP and smokeless (making it a safe testbed for exploring new loads), stabilize any projectile I want (up to 600gr +), maintain 95% of the Pedersoli accuracy at half the sticker price, make easy mounting on scopes and sights, enable extremely easy cleaning and maintenance and best of all, maybe stick out from the crowd just a little bit. It doesn't quite fit in the BP scene, nor in typical single shot hunting scene but I like it and it's the only thing I own that is remotely personalized for me.

To each and his own I guess.

shoe

[tdoyka]

If you showed me a posting on Armslist or Gunbroker (No decent gun stores here in IL), I would be inclined to agree. If I had found a reasonable price on a Lyman Sharps or Pedersoli Rolling Block, High Wall Sharps etc, I would not have even considered building this. At the current stage of life, I cannot yet justify $1800 on a used reproduction rifle that I cannot service or get parts for without a gunsmith (smiths in IL are now afraid to touch anyone's gun beyond a trigger job or scope mount), or sending the gun to Italy. I have access to a good network through TC Addicts and BellmTCs for parts and upgrade kits so I can build up the rifle at a whim.

I am sure that many forum members enjoy excellent experiences with Pedersolis, Ubertis, Shilohs and C Sharps. Those are still way beyond my price range and the manufacturers can't even decide if smokeless powder is even safe in those guns.
With this build, I have a rifle that can safely take BP and smokeless (making it a safe testbed for exploring new loads), stabilize any projectile I want (up to 600gr +), maintain 95% of the Pedersoli accuracy at half the sticker price, make easy mounting on scopes and sights, enable extremely easy cleaning and maintenance and best of all, maybe stick out from the crowd just a little bit. It doesn't quite fit in the BP scene, nor in typical single shot hunting scene but I like it and it's the only thing I own that is remotely personalized for me.

To each and his own I guess.

shoe

i thought about trying a sharps or a pedersoli but they are priced way more than i can afford. i wish i could buy a ruger blackhawk 500 linebaugh from THE guy, john linebaugh. but i can't, so an encore it will be. a MGM barrel that will cost me around $370 + s/h. the fact is, i like it and shoe likes his.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

That should be a good starting point. It should do very well

Thank you, and it has thus far. Still need to post pictures of two groups I squeezed from the rifle.


i thought about trying a sharps or a pedersoli but they are priced way more than i can afford. i wish i could buy a ruger blackhawk 500 linebaugh from THE guy, john linebaugh. but i can't, so an encore it will be. a MGM barrel that will cost me around $370 + s/h. the fact is, i like it and shoe likes his.

tdoyka, I agree. It's far easier to get a decent custom barrel for an Encore/Contender to at least practice with. I agree that one cannot put a price tag on the experience of having a Creedmoor style repro or original. I do not yet think I am good enough of a shooter for that yet. Haha.

[mattri]

Looks like a great project, enjoy!

[iplaywithnoshoes]

A sample group from a few weeks ago:

191190

Both circled groups are 5 consecutive shots each called and observed by a spotter. The other shots were sighters or horseplay.
These might be flukes and I had no point of reference on the target with iron sights but they made me feel good. Haha.
(The loads written are from verified manuals and load books but you approach these at your own risk.)

shoe

[modified5]

Nice shooting!!
I have a contender pistol in various calibers, including 45-70, that I am looking forward to playing with as soon as my shoulder heals up enough to shoot.
As far as your choice of firearm, all I can say is, build what you love, love what you build!

[tdoyka]

very nice shootin'!!!!

i like the way trail boss groups. i did a 12 shot group at 50 yards(using trail boss) that was 3/4"+/- with my MGM (444 marlin, 23" heavy factory barrel). unfortunately, the 444 does not like unique.

50 yards 280gr wfn gc
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160425_123520_zpskkvhnx4p.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160425_123520_zpskkvhnx4p.jpg.html)

50 yards 220gr wc
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160425_123603_zpsfmh63d5u.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160425_123603_zpsfmh63d5u.jpg.html)

h4198 with my 45-70 handi-rifle is just awesome. 405gr fbfn with h4198 (doesn't matter which gr) will go 1 1/2 - 2 1/4" at 100 yards(5 shots, peep sights). i'll have to look, but it goes approx. 1400fps+/-. the handi just luvs tb and unique at 50 yards(1 - 1 3/4", 5 shots).

you should try rel7, you will like it too.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

Looks like a great project, enjoy!

Thank you! I'm enjoying it so far!


Nice shooting!!
I have a contender pistol in various calibers, including 45-70, that I am looking forward to playing with as soon as my shoulder heals up enough to shoot.
As far as your choice of firearm, all I can say is, build what you love, love what you build!

That Contender is quite thumper isn't it? My .45-70 Encore whips me enough with heavy loads but both can be quite accurate when you get over the flinch!


very nice shootin'!!!!

i like the way trail boss groups. i did a 12 shot group at 50 yards(using trail boss) that was 3/4"+/- with my MGM (444 marlin, 23" heavy factory barrel). unfortunately, the 444 does not like unique.

50 yards 280gr wfn gc
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160425_123520_zpskkvhnx4p.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160425_123520_zpskkvhnx4p.jpg.html)

50 yards 220gr wc
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160425_123603_zpsfmh63d5u.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160425_123603_zpsfmh63d5u.jpg.html)

h4198 with my 45-70 handi-rifle is just awesome. 405gr fbfn with h4198 (doesn't matter which gr) will go 1 1/2 - 2 1/4" at 100 yards(5 shots, peep sights). i'll have to look, but it goes approx. 1400fps+/-. the handi just luvs tb and unique at 50 yards(1 - 1 3/4", 5 shots).

you should try rel7, you will like it too.

Great groups! 3/4" at 50yds is basically a laser beam. That already sounds like a great brush rifle setup, especially in .444.

I absolutely agree on H4198 and RE7. Mine likes H4198, Unique, TB and Varget in a 405gr, with a very clean burn. In a 475-500gr, RE7 is my go-to for smokeless with this setup.

shoe

[iplaywithnoshoes]

Bump, for some changes and additional uploads to original post!

[iplaywithnoshoes]

First time hitting steel at 350 yards over the weekend:

192505

192506

192507

192508

shoe

[tdoyka]

way to go!!!

[EDG]

Your first post listed $975 for your new barrel set up.
I bought a "used" but apparently unfired Pedersoli Billy Dixon Sharps model rifle for $950 at a local gun show. The seller was an individual. That price was out the door for the higher quality finish that comes with the Dixon model stock. I only buy like new but used rifles. I have no idea why you think IL is any different than other states. There are not many BPCR gunsmiths anywhere. I have bought these rifles gun shows, gun shops, a local dealer that deals in new and used BPCRs from his home, Gun Broker and from individuals.

$1800 has nothing to do with reality if you have any patience. I have seen literally hundreds of the Pedersoli Rolling Blocks and Sharps for $1100 or less. At one time you could buy a Browning BPCR complete with sights for $1100. The last Sharps I saw walking around at a gun show was a Pedersoli 74 Sharps 45-90 that the guy wanted $750 for. I did not want a 45-90 but I should have bought it to rebarrel to something more fun. Just put a search on gun broker and you will have notifications come your way. There is a heavy barreled Pedersoli Rolling Block for $1025 on Gunbroker. It says it was fired about 20 times. If no one else bids on it, it could be yours for $1025 plus shipping. I am tempted to bid on it myself. For $50 more than you say you paid for your barrel you get a complete Pedersoli.
You can rationalize any reason you want to avoid import brands but that is no guarantee that your favorite manufacturer will not shut down or go bankrupt. I think most of Winchester and all of Browning are now made overseas.
I have never had a gunsmith work on anything I own and my parts don't seem to break. I have a factory 45-70 barrel on an Encore and a number of real 45-70 single shots so I have a good basis for comparison. It seems your real motivation is to stick out from the crowd.


If you showed me a posting on Armslist or Gunbroker (No decent gun stores here in IL), I would be inclined to agree. If I had found a reasonable price on a Lyman Sharps or Pedersoli Rolling Block, High Wall Sharps etc, I would not have even considered building this. At the current stage of life, I cannot yet justify $1800 on a used reproduction rifle that I cannot service or get parts for without a gunsmith (smiths in IL are now afraid to touch anyone's gun beyond a trigger job or scope mount), or sending the gun to Italy. I have access to a good network through TC Addicts and BellmTCs for parts and upgrade kits so I can build up the rifle at a whim.

I am sure that many forum members enjoy excellent experiences with Pedersolis, Ubertis, Shilohs and C Sharps. Those are still way beyond my price range and the manufacturers can't even decide if smokeless powder is even safe in those guns.
With this build, I have a rifle that can safely take BP and smokeless (making it a safe testbed for exploring new loads), stabilize any projectile I want (up to 600gr +), maintain 95% of the Pedersoli accuracy at half the sticker price, make easy mounting on scopes and sights, enable extremely easy cleaning and maintenance and best of all, maybe stick out from the crowd just a little bit. It doesn't quite fit in the BP scene, nor in typical single shot hunting scene but I like it and it's the only thing I own that is remotely personalized for me.

To each and his own I guess.

shoe

[iplaywithnoshoes]

Your first post listed $975 for your new barrel set up.
I bought a "used" but apparently unfired Pedersoli Billy Dixon Sharps model rifle for $950 at a local gun show. The seller was an individual. That price was out the door for the higher quality finish that comes with the Dixon model stock. I only buy like new but used rifles. I have no idea why you think IL is any different than other states. There are not many BPCR gunsmiths anywhere. I have bought these rifles gun shows, gun shops, a local dealer that deals in new and used BPCRs from his home, Gun Broker and from individuals.

$1800 has nothing to do with reality if you have any patience. I have seen literally hundreds of the Pedersoli Rolling Blocks and Sharps for $1100 or less. At one time you could buy a Browning BPCR complete with sights for $1100. The last Sharps I saw walking around at a gun show was a Pedersoli 74 Sharps 45-90 that the guy wanted $750 for. I did not want a 45-90 but I should have bought it to rebarrel to something more fun. Just put a search on gun broker and you will have notifications come your way. There is a heavy barreled Pedersoli Rolling Block for $1025 on Gunbroker. It says it was fired about 20 times. If no one else bids on it, it could be yours for $1025 plus shipping. I am tempted to bid on it myself. For $50 more than you say you paid for your barrel you get a complete Pedersoli.
You can rationalize any reason you want to avoid import brands but that is no guarantee that your favorite manufacturer will not shut down or go bankrupt. I think most of Winchester and all of Browning are now made overseas.
I have never had a gunsmith work on anything I own and my parts don't seem to break. I have a factory 45-70 barrel on an Encore and a number of real 45-70 single shots so I have a good basis for comparison. It seems your real motivation is to stick out from the crowd.

So there we have some examples, which is great!......

...Except that its a month too late....

Which rings in another point: I had to look for a few years to find prices like that, while I only had to wait 4 weeks to get my barrel (and in the contour that I want). Though it is true that it wasn't the 32" one I was hoping for, I didn't have to go out of my way towards a used rifle of which I don't know the exact condition. Though I admit this line of thinking is shortsighted and paranoid and resale value is likely not nearly as close as a Pedersoli, it's still something different and it may seem that sticking out of the crowd is equally valuable to me as having a good shooter. Perhaps part of it may also be that my setup is closer to how *I* chose it to be set up, therefore, the rifle may adhere to a different set of rules when reloading, which might intrigue me just a little more than the existing (but tried and true) BPCR practices. Some of this reasoning might seem a wee bit irrational and a little more money could get me a BPCR and even the previous owner's loading data and some rounds. Compared to a beautiful walnut endowed Sharps or High Wall, this is an ugly duckling with cool shades and a fedora, but it's still light, accurate, and rugged and it's almost as strong as (and definitely cheaper than) a Ruger #1 of which I cannot find a .45-70 chambering for under $1800 either. You may find a few listings and prove me wrong yet again and statistics (luck) may never be in my favor of finding one at a reasonable price. I decided that I had enough and just leveled my chances and ordered close to what I wanted and minimized my wait. I can still put other barrels on this platform, negating the need for another rifle for a different purpose. I am a bit skeptical about your listings including sights, seeing that decent Creedmoor sights are $300-600 by themselves but I'll take your word for it.

I am glad that prices are going down on these BPCR rifles apparently, but given my previous frustration looking for the one I wanted, I don't feel like looking for one now. What I built has a unique combination of criteria I was looking for and I do not regret it.

shoe

[tdoyka]

So there we have some examples, which is great!......

...Except that its a month too late....


I am glad that prices are going down on these BPCR rifles apparently, but given my previous frustration looking for the one I wanted, I don't feel like looking for one now. What I built has a unique combination of criteria I was looking for and I do not regret it.

shoe


you sure do!!!! ;) i want a springfield trapdoor model 1868 in 50-70 gov. but instead i'm going to go with a tc encore in a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel/skinner sights(front/back) with a 500 linebaugh. i can spend $500 on my encore or i can spend $1000 or more on what i "want".

[iplaywithnoshoes]

you sure do!!!! ;) i want a springfield trapdoor model 1868 in 50-70 gov. but instead i'm going to go with a tc encore in a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel/skinner sights(front/back) with a 500 linebaugh. i can spend $500 on my encore or i can spend $1000 or more on what i "want".

Absolutely agreed! I have seen Trapdoors for $400 but are rusted to hell. I cannot even find Milsurps in the condition I am looking for for any price I want to pay. If these unicorns appear on Gunbroker, likely those do not show up when I search them. I think an Encore is a fine solution for us! Can't wait to see your build when it's finished!

[OlDeuce]

I saw a guy take a single shot shotgun and put a 45-70 barrel on it ! talk about a Poor Man's Silhouette Rifle But to say the least it shot well and looked good :-)Ol Deuce

[rondog]

I have to ask - what's with the fencing hanging down in front of the shooting bench?

[iplaywithnoshoes]

I saw a guy take a single shot shotgun and put a 45-70 barrel on it ! talk about a Poor Man's Silhouette Rifle But to say the least it shot well and looked good :-)

Ol Deuce


That certainly can apply here, since there are plenty of shotgun barrels for the Encore. :)


I have to ask - what's with the fencing hanging down in front of the shooting bench?

The 100yd range is for bench shooting only, no offhand. I assume the fence is there to discourage that.