Midway sale on the Lyman GP's ...

[rfd]

head's up ... flinters, cappers, fully assembled and kits ... even a 1:32 barrel ...

http://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=lyman+great+plains&userItemsPerPage=48

[54bore]

Those are darn good prices that's for sure! I wonder what the deal is there? Sometimes that means they are trying to dump what they have and quit carrying it. One of these days i will get a slow twist round ball barrel to go along with my Lyman Great Plains Hunter so that i have both Fast and Slow twist barrels.

[Beagle333]

They are allowing backorders and show an "in stock" date, so they aren't discontinued. It's just a sale. Enjoy!

[Johnny_Cyclone]

Thought about getting my first flinter, but not sure if this would be an acceptable first for a new guy. Meaning these low initial cost, but require mid to high experience level to have work proper.

Example. LEE pro 1000 loader a nice machine for someone who knows the in's and out's of reloading, but a nightmare of frustration for someone brand new to reloading. Lots of "knack and feel" required to run smooth.

Would one of these flintlock versions be smooth sailing? or a tiddlywink of errors waiting to happen due to lack of "knack and feel" from experience?

I have a percussion GPR (amazing), but I hear flint is less forgiving of workmanship. Maybe that's all smoke and mirrors. Just thought I'd ask the knowledge base here.

[rfd]

the lyman rifles (actually, made by investarms in italy, who rebrands as cabelas, DGW and others) is, imho, the Best offshore sidelock yer dollars can buy. it has an excellent barrel that can have its breech plug removed (unlike almost all the other offshore guns), a good DS trigger system, and a decent lock that actually works. it's patent breech does require adding a .32 brush to yer rod to get past the breech face, but that's really no big deal. the wedge barrel and hooked breech means easy barrel removal for cleaning. like all the other offshore guns, they come with a cut junk rock for a "flint" that needs to be thrown away immediately and replaced with an english or french knapped flint.

for more info on trad ml's, this page my be of interest - About Traditional Muzzleloaders (http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/tradml/index.html)

i can heartily recommend investarms offshore side locks over the other italian guns (including pedersoli ml's), and those spanish guns (jukar, cva, traditions). t/c trad ml guns were goodies, but alas no more. i have some really expensive custom trad ml's, but i also have a pair of investarms as well (i just bought another GPR kit at that excellent $440 price - "kit" is a joke, it's actually already built and ready to use ... though sanding the wood, stain and oil finish is almost as easy as was screwing the parts together :) ). ALL my trad ml's are flinters, i don't do percussion guns at all - i know flintlocks very well, since the mid 50's.

there is more to understand about a flinter than a percussion gun, but the learning curve is not steep and the deep satisfaction of such a reliable gun makes smacking critters or paper or steel so much more Fun.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

rfd, I really appreciate the feedback.

Looks like I'll be placing the order tonight.

Then I'll spend the week putting a kit together through Track of the Wolf.

Thanks,


PS. is there any particular Flint (Rock) that works better with GPR's than others?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

FAR from being ready to shoot in kit form. Terribly inletted at the tang.

[rfd]

FAR from being ready to shoot in kit form. Terribly inletted at the tang.

that is total misinformation - nothing could be further from the truth.

[rfd]

rfd, I really appreciate the feedback.

Looks like I'll be placing the order tonight.

Then I'll spend the week putting a kit together through Track of the Wolf.

Thanks,


PS. is there any particular Flint (Rock) that works better with GPR's than others?

any good knapped flint will do - either english black or french amber. these locks will take a 5/8 x 3/4 flint.

i have *NO* affiliations with investarms, lyman, midway, etc. - i'm just telling it like it is from my perspective and clearly my opinions about the state of offshore trad ml's after decades of using and evaluating them. these investarms rifles are the better buys than ALL the offshore rest, and the "rest" includes the other italian bred guns (pedersoli, included) and definitely those spanish bred guns from traditions, cva and jukar. i've had them all, from ready to shoot to "kits". the spanish guns have patent breech plugs that are impossible to remove, and traditions literature specifies that attempting breech pug removal will destroy the barrel. i have gunsmith quality breech plug removal tools and have destroyed a traditions barrel attempting plug removal. investarms guns have barrels and patent breech plugs that can actually be worked on by most anyone, and some day this ability to remove a breech plug will save or extend the life of the rifle.

as mentioned already, the GPR "kit" is fully and properly inletted and ready to screw together, and shoot. should one choose, and you should, rasping/filing/sanding down the proud wood to meet the furniture is the work required. finishing is no more than applying an optional stain, but most important is to protect the wood with either a straight oil finish (linseed oil with dryers) or oil/varnish finish (i.e. - tru-oil).

[BPJONES]

I agree, Invest Arms is one of the better mass produced muzzleloaders out there today. I wish we could find a sale like that here in Canada!

[54bore]

Another vote for Investarms, i really like my Lyman GP Hunter Fast Twist .54, the only thing i didn't like was the Crescent butt on this particular gun, the top was sharp as a knife! I didn't want to cut it off so i filled it with a memory foam and added a nice Leather Recoil pad. I stil say they take a backseat to ANY and ALL of my TC's, but since TC's are no longer made and haven't been for years the Lyman in my opinion is the next best thing. I have handled a few Traditions and they don't feel the quality to me as the Lyman Great Plains, again a personal thing. I have never owned one so can't speak much of them. I will likely end up buying a Traditions Crockett .32 Cal for fun. Here is my Lyman GP Hunter Recoil pad i installed

189250

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I've built enough of my own and for other folks to know that they need plenty of adjustment in the tang. When you tighten up the tang screws and install the barrel and that barrel is sprung up a couple inches above the stock channel, THAT is not ready to drop in and go shooting.

The tang on this rifle and all the others after it, were shimmed with washers and some of the others down the road that I built, were bedded to correct this poorly fit tangs.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Lyman/DSCN1424.jpg (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/thepowerbeltforum/media/Lyman/DSCN1424.jpg.html)

One of the purdier ones I built for an online friend.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Custom%20shop%20Finshes/DSCN2673.jpg (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/thepowerbeltforum/media/Custom%20shop%20Finshes/DSCN2673.jpg.html)

[rfd]

then you, jon are the very rare exception to the rule. traditions wish they could say the same.

[rfd]

the $440 GPR .54 flintlock "kit" arrived 3 hours ago and i just got time to open the box. the lock, trigger, butt plate, toe plate and nose cap were already installed. within 15 minutes i turned in 16 screws to add the tang, barrel, under rib, trigger guard, and 4 wedge escutcheons. gee, that was hard work. :) it all fits quite well, no wood removal, no misalignments, no issue of any kind - as expected.

http://i.imgur.com/KPhe9ql.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IAa7ZIw.jpg

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

not rare in any way, nothing is perfect, thats why they are a kit.

[rfd]

not rare in any way, nothing is perfect, thats why they are a kit.

you are, as always when it comes to investarms products, completely incorrect.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

LOL I've owned many of them, i've built many of them. I am allowed to voice my experience about them. My gosh, its not a hard fix and its an important one to prevent your stock from cracking over time.

[rfd]

well jon, i bow to you as we all know about yer trad ml "expertise". LOL, by gosh!

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

just giving folks a heads up on what to watch for is all.

[rfd]

just giving folks a heads up on what to watch for is all.

i bet you are. guess you never had any issues with yer spanish guns?

[Johnny_Cyclone]

After looking at post #14 maybe I shouldn't have ordered a .54 GPR complete.. lol. We maybe another time

[rfd]

the assembly is the easy part. yeah, you could shoot it that way, but it really does need two things done - rasp/file/sand the proud walnut wood down flush to the furniture (butt plate, toe plate, trigger guard, tang, wedge escutcheons, nose cap. the wrist area wood also needs shaping to blend the lock and side plates into the stock. with just a 4-in-1 rasp, that can be between a 30 minute and 3 hour job - all depends on how smooth you want the final wood to look and feel. the wood is european walnut and can be clear coated without staining. i prefer to stain it dark, and i typically use LMF american walnut. one coat is usually enuf. buffed out with 0000 steel wool and it's ready for a real finish. the open grain can be sealed with a grain filler, or left as is - i usually don't grain fill. to seal the wood from the elements, and really pop out the wood grain i'll use either linseed oil (with dryers) or a varnish oil (such as tru-oil). finishing process can take at least a few dayze to as much as a month - all depends on the level of finished required or desired. this is a GPR .50 i finished a month ago for a friend, with a bout 8 coats of TOTW original oil finish ...

http://i.imgur.com/VU7Xei5.jpg

[rfd]

same gun above, but before stain and oil ...

http://i.imgur.com/1SOLcX0.jpg

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

fast forward to 4:00 :groner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRuUmImsbw

[rfd]

mike takes "kit building" to the Extreme - almost all of what he's done is more than overkill and totally unnecessary.

[Edward]

Watched the you tube posted by (Funteer) and came away after that and all the positive comments and decided you rfd are right and and it is a nice kit and I should get one .Also you wouldn"t be selling any lubed patches (magical)I could purchase ?

[rfd]

Watched the you tube posted by (Funteer) and came away after that and all the positive comments and decided you rfd are right and and it is a nice kit and I should get one .

really, for both newbie and seasoned pro alike, it's hard to beat a lyman GPR. even mike nesbitt's column in "muzzleloader magazine" specifically praises the lyman (investarm) rifles as the best value in a percussion or flintlock trad ml available these dayze.


Also you wouldn"t be selling any lubed patches (magical)I could purchase ?

who, me? i don't sell anything connected to muzzleloaders, sorry.

here's the deal and my recommendation for a newbie to trad side locks ...

BALLS - get, or cast, some balls that are .010" smaller than the gun's bore. so for a .50 you'd want .490 balls, and for a .54 you'd want .530 balls. balls are "pure" lead.

PATCH MATERIAL - you can experiment with any 100% cotton or linen material to use for patches. any material that is not 100% pure cotton or linen can too easily cause a "plastic" fouling residue in the barrel. so don't guess when it comes to patch cloth, go buy some. i recommend buying patch cloth or patch strips and not precut patches. there are valid arguments for using precut patches or cutting off a patch strip or cloth at the muzzle. when you cut a patch at muzzle, it'll insure that the ball is seated concentrically in the middle of the patch.

PATCH THICKNESS - for starters, get you at least a few different thicknesses of cloth to test out, see what works best for yer barrel's bore, depth of rifling. ball diameter. for a first gun baptism firing i'll bring .010, .015 and .018 thickness cotton tight weave patch cloth strips. all the online vendors sell these cloth types and thicknesses. when you get two or more cloths (usually yard squares, or 2" wide strips), mark them for their thickness with a sharpie pen else it might not be easy figuring out which is which when they're all stripped up. ;)

PATCH LUBE - just spit or suck on the patch. easy, fast, cheap, always available. this is for immediate shooting - leaving a spit patched ball in the chamber will invite rusting sooner than later. for hunting, a greased patch strip or greased patched balls in a ball board are best - can stay in the gun forever, won't freeze up during a winter's hunt. the list of commercial patch lubes, or do-it-yerself patch lube, is probably endless. they're all good, one way or another. pick one out and just shoot.

some ball boards i made up ... top two have .600 balls in .015 grease lubed patching, bottom board has .490 balls in the same .015 grease lubed patched. what "grease"? i use a home made lube that i also use for lubing my .45-70 bullets, good ol' "gato feo" lube - mutton tallow, beeswax, canning wax.

http://i.imgur.com/tiZhJrx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DcdXEQU.jpg

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

he did take it to the extreme but a hell of a job in doing so, especially the cheek piece. I wasn't pleased at seeing stain being used on good walnut, one down side. Springy barrel was the main point as they supposedly don't have that issue.

[BPJONES]

I haven't put one of their kits together but I don't call having to remove a sliver of wood from the drum area much of an issue if that's all it took to make the barrel drop in. I would say actually very minor, especially considering it is a kit.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

some kits its much more extreme. But you'd expect that since they are kits. I did complete overkill on a Traditions kit I put together, but that's my main hunting rifle now. Its barrel dropped in perfectly with no barrel spring, yet had some rubbing of the wood where the mill eased up towards the breech.

[duckey]

Well I went ahead and ordered the GP kit from Midway, some LMF AW stain, Tru oil, some plum brown, and a couple spare flints. Couldn't let the $110 savings slip by on this kit. Figured it would be good practice as I'd like to build a TOW Bucks county kit. rfd thanks for the heads up on this sale!

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

duckey your messages were full buddy. The owner of that second rifle wanted it slightly darker, so I used 2 thin coats of LMF honey maple and around 25 coats of truoil which was then buffed down gently with linseed oil soaked 0000 steel wool.

[rfd]

that GPR .54 "kit" before ...

http://i.imgur.com/IAa7ZIw.jpg

... and after an L&R RPL05 lock replacement ...

http://i.imgur.com/2IVczzU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jA7UK5i.jpg

... now the wood shaping begins ...

[Johnny_Cyclone]

L&R RPL05 lock replacement

That's not a requirement is it? or is it more like replacing your brand new, factory, never used, stock in the box 1911 magazine with a Wilson 47D because that's just how you roll.

The factory lock on the GPR should be fine?

[54bore]

That's not a requirement is it? or is it more like replacing your brand new, factory, never used, stock in the box 1911 magazine with a Wilson 47D because that's just how you roll.

The factory lock on the GPR should be fine?

Not speaking for rfd, but there is a guy here in my area that builds custom Muzzleloaders, he absolutely swears by L&R Locks, he says there is no comparison between an L&R and a stock lock. I have zero experience with them, other than handling a few that were on his guns.

[rfd]

.... The factory lock on the GPR should be fine?

IMHO, the stock GPR lock is more than fine.

there's a thread in this forum that shows me shooting a GPR kit .50 flint 3x in a row with a stock lock that has fast lock time, and with 3f in the pan, not 4f.

"so why replace it???" 'cause i could, and i can, and i did. :)

[54bore]

IMHO, the stock GPR lock is more than fine.

"so why replace it???" 'cause i could, and i can, and i did. :)

LOL! Kinda like why did i buy a TC Scout today? Cause i could, and i wanted to!

[rfd]

we're so ... bad. ;)

[duckey]

Did you brown the barrel and hardware? (hard for me to tell from picture, the barrel looks darker than lock and other parts) if you did what did you use? I ordered some BC Plum Brown for the furniture and then TOTW Cold Brown. Trying to get a nice authentic look.



the assembly is the easy part. yeah, you could shoot it that way, but it really does need two things done - rasp/file/sand the proud walnut wood down flush to the furniture (butt plate, toe plate, trigger guard, tang, wedge escutcheons, nose cap. the wrist area wood also needs shaping to blend the lock and side plates into the stock. with just a 4-in-1 rasp, that can be between a 30 minute and 3 hour job - all depends on how smooth you want the final wood to look and feel. the wood is european walnut and can be clear coated without staining. i prefer to stain it dark, and i typically use LMF american walnut. one coat is usually enuf. buffed out with 0000 steel wool and it's ready for a real finish. the open grain can be sealed with a grain filler, or left as is - i usually don't grain fill. to seal the wood from the elements, and really pop out the wood grain i'll use either linseed oil (with dryers) or a varnish oil (such as tru-oil). finishing process can take at least a few dayze to as much as a month - all depends on the level of finished required or desired. this is a GPR .50 i finished a month ago for a friend, with a bout 8 coats of TOTW original oil finish ...

http://i.imgur.com/VU7Xei5.jpg

[duckey]

Thanks for the heads up...I'll clean some out!


duckey your messages were full buddy. The owner of that second rifle wanted it slightly darker, so I used 2 thin coats of LMF honey maple and around 25 coats of truoil which was then buffed down gently with linseed oil soaked 0000 steel wool.

[rfd]

Did you brown the barrel and hardware? (hard for me to tell from picture, the barrel looks darker than lock and other parts) if you did what did you use? I ordered some BC Plum Brown for the furniture and then TOTW Cold Brown. Trying to get a nice authentic look.

the GPR lock comes in a darkish brown colour. the barrel was left in-the-white, as i always do, to patina on its own. though i've completed a lot of barrels and locks in both plumb brown and blue-brown, i'd rather leave all the metal to patina on its own, naturally, over time. "back in the day", it is argued that most of the time the metal was left untouched and as-is, and thus as such is quite "period/era correct authentic", for those who feel the need to be historically "correct".

[Hickory]

Would one of these flintlock versions be smooth sailing? or a tiddlywink of errors waiting to happen due to lack of "knack and feel" from experience?

If you do everything right, it will fire every time.
Keep your powder dry.

[rfd]

the GPR flint lock is a good and reliable lock. instead of a flat main spring, it uses a coil main spring, and some like that fact. the hammer steel (frizzen) is hardened well and renders good sparks, but a REAL knapped english or french flint is required - throw out the cut rock "flint" that comes with any offshore flinter. i've either owned or worked on dozens of investarms flintlocks, and never had an issue with their lock geometry or materials or function.

ALL of the tough alignment build work is pre-completed with GPR and GPH "kits". these are screw-together assemblies. routing, mortising and inlet work is not required.

the "learning curve" for loading, shooting, cleaning flintlocks is not even a curve, it's a short straight line. ask me how if yer still baffled. i've started dozens of folks down the path of good flintlock shooting and all have been bitten by the flint bug and none have survived. (yep, that's a good thing for all).

as i stated before, assembly is fast and the gun is ready to load and shoot ... but you would want to take the time to at least seal the wood with some kind clear finish stuff. while the clear (polyu, oil, varnish, whatever) will protect the wood, you'll have a gun that's got a Lot of excess wood that's proud of the furniture (metal parts) and be kinda bulky looking if not plain ugly.

so, to make any offshore kit gun be the best it can be, and before staining and sealing the wood, rasp and sand all the wood that sticks above the metal right down to the metal. yes, you will scratch and score the metal (butt plate, toe plate, tang, trigger guard, fore end cap, barrel wedge escutcheons, etc). when the wood meets the metal and is sanded smooth to 220 grit, you have a choice to leave the metal on as is, or take it off and polish it smooth with a wire wheel and steel wool. i like tough, rugged, Used guns, so i leave the furniture alone and scratched, hit it with some steel wool as it's mounted on the stock.

the matter of whiskering the wood before staining or finishing, to knock down the wood grain, is also optional.

it's optional whether or not to stain the wood. stain is just color, and color is an aesthetic matter and not a functional thing. i like dark wood, so even walnut gets stained. i like LMF (laurel mountain forge) american walnut. one quick wipe is good for me. 0000 wool buffing after the stain cures.

rather than messing with a gazillion wipes of a real oil finish that requires really long "cure" times, the faster/easier varnish oil (tru-oil) can fully seal the wood in as little as 3 coats, with 0000 buffing 'tween coats. more coats essentially means a thicker seal, more durability, more finish shine (for hunters, the last coat also gets its shine knocked down with 0000 wool). not at all hard, and can be a satisfying mini project. i usually give 3 or 4 light wipes of warmed linseed oil (pre blended with drying agents - TOTW Original Oil finish), then 3 or more light wipes of Tru-Oil (all coats of any finish get 0000 wool buffing tween coats).

a buffed coat of carnuba car paste wax is also good wet weather protection, after the clear coats cure.

what'd i forget? :)

[duckey]

Roger that rfd. So the 2 pack of Tradition flints I ordered....yeh or ney?

[rfd]

dunno anything about "traditions flints" - got a link to them?

are they knapped (you need to use good, real, knapped english or french flints)?

are they the correct size (5/8x3/4) for a GPR?

[rfd]

ok, curious about "traditions flints" and did a search. found them at various vendors for $10 to $7 per PAIR. they're claimed to be english flints. midway shows this picture of a pair of 'em and they want $7 for both.

the one on the left has a peaked top that allows both edges to be used, the one on the right has a flat top w/single edge and is called a "fine" flint. i prefer the fine flint as it allows more surface holding area in the cock's jaws.

http://i.imgur.com/a7w1CIZ.png

a great english black or french amber flint should cost no more than $2 ... i get mine at TOTW and can specify only fine flints.

[duckey]

Midway had them. Not sure on size. They came reccomended with the GPR. However I'm looking at TOTW's English flints, thanks for mentioning the size as I was about to ask.

[duckey]

rfd....I believe you mentioned that the lock that comes with the GP kit has some sorta black finish on it. I noticed that on some Lyman Hawken kits and thought it looked rather ugly. Can that finish be stripped off? I'd rather try and brown it myself. What would you recommend to strip the finish.

[rfd]

you can see where i used 0000 steel wool to basically rub off some of the finish (though the hammer and pan have some kinda "color cased" finish, probably faux) ...

http://i.imgur.com/vwS1bin.jpg

[duckey]

Looks like the same finish through out. That 0000 steel wool seemed to take tame it down a lot. Thanks for the picture.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

birchwood casey blue and rust remover.
189763

[duckey]

I like that satin finish. The grain pops out. The LMF Honey Maple seems lighter in color than a walnut stain. I guess it all comes down to how much is applied. Was this a GPR? kit?

[rfd]

I like that satin finish. The grain pops out. The LMF Honey Maple seems lighter in color than a walnut stain. I guess it all comes down to how much is applied. Was this a GPR? kit?

LMF stains, like most all stains, will/can vary greatly in their final hue dependent on the stock wood genus, its grain, and what type of clear is used over the stain. also, the number of stain applications. of all the LMF stains, i like and use their american walnut the most because i like dark woods with a hint of red.

i always buy "kit" guns, so if yer addressing any of the investarms (GPR, DGW, etc) rifles i've posted about, yep, all kits.

[duckey]

So here are a few pics of my pops flinter he built from a TOTW kit. It took him many years to build, worked on it here and their....the winter he retired he got rite to it and finished it in a couple months. We shot it together and It is such a pleasant gun to shoot, surprisingly mild kick and very accurate. This one has a straight octagonal barrel (Douglas)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153355&d=1447557447
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153354&d=1447557446
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153351&d=1447557440

[rfd]

a most beautious rifle!

[54bore]

duckey, That is a beautiful rifle!!

[duckey]

I found some Locktite Naval Jelly today that I had kicking around. Says it'll remove bluing so I will try this on the lock prior to browning.


birchwood casey blue and rust remover.
189763

[duckey]

Thanks. He did a darn good job on it. That patch box took a lot of time.


duckey, That is a beautiful rifle!!

[duckey]

Got my GPR kit today. Have a few more items on the way for the gun. I see that the butt plate will need to move forward about 3/16" due to some gapage and then of course a lot of bringing the stock down to the hardware. Barrel seems to fit nicely, maybe a tad bit of pinching up towards the fore end cap. I need to wrap my head around how the lines need to look around the lock and opposite side of the lock as well as blending everything together. The stock has some nice color to it. Fun times ahead.

[duckey]

Well I'd say I'm about 60% done with getting with stock filing and sanding. Just taking my time and making all the lines and curves flow. I bought some sanding sponges at ace (not the dry wall ones) and they work very well and are firm enough but not to firm. They can conform to curves etc and cheek piece area.

[rfd]

GPR .54 "kit" done. L&R RPL05 lock swapped in ...

http://i.imgur.com/vdzuuVQ.jpg

DGW .50 "kit" up next for stock wood shaping and finishing ...

http://i.imgur.com/Wq2qgdK.jpg

the pair of 'em ...

http://i.imgur.com/GptGQrh.jpg

[54bore]

Darn nice rfd!!

[duckey]

rfd. Can you pm or post an up close pic of underneath the gun showing trigger and trigger guard. Also how the stock is formed around the breech and tang. I need to see how you finished the stock around these areas. Thanks!

[rfd]

there are no rules to shaping the proud stock wood. do whatever you think is best. hold and shoulder the stock then take off wood as need be, it's all good.

i used a proxxon mini belt sanding stick and 80 grit to take down the wood around the wrist and tang. i take off just a little of the bottom wood, by the trigger guard and trigger DST assembly. the finish is a number of warmed TOTW linseed oil (w/dryers) coats rubbed in with a piece of flannel cloth, each very light coat is cured overnight then buffed out with 4/0 steel wool. final three warmed and light coat of rubbed in varnish oil (tru-oil) with 4/0 buffing after all coats. i want an olde tyme finish that looks, well, old - no grain filling done or needed, and fast finish completion.

all of the investarms trad ml's have what appears to be cnc machining stock humps just aft of the lock sides and tang - those i take down and fair into the wrist and aft of that into the back stock itself.

http://i.imgur.com/jnnceEA.jpg

[duckey]

Been putting in some time most everyday an hour here and there. Stock has been shape to my liking and brought to a 180 grit finish for now. Brought the wood down closer to the triggers so the curve of trigger guard has some light between it and the stock. Brought the forend cap, escutcheon, and ram rod entry pipe to a 0000 steel wool finish. I and dreding polishing the trigger guard. I also took the faux finish off the lock with 0000 steel wool as I want to brown it. Hoping to get the butt plate and maybe trigger guard done over the weekend. It's coming along quite nicely. I may have caught the bug for this stuff.

[hpdrifter]

any good knapped flint will do - either english black or french amber. these locks will take a 5/8 x 3/4 flint.

i have *NO* affiliations with investarms, lyman, midway, etc. - i'm just telling it like it is from my perspective and clearly my opinions about the state of offshore trad ml's after decades of using and evaluating them. these investarms rifles are the better buys than ALL the offshore rest, and the "rest" includes the other italian bred guns (pedersoli, included) and definitely those spanish bred guns from traditions, cva and jukar. i've had them all, from ready to shoot to "kits". the spanish guns have patent breech plugs that are impossible to remove, and traditions literature specifies that attempting breech pug removal will destroy the barrel. i have gunsmith quality breech plug removal tools and have destroyed a traditions barrel attempting plug removal. investarms guns have barrels and patent breech plugs that can actually be worked on by most anyone, and some day this ability to remove a breech plug will save or extend the life of the rifle.

as mentioned already, the GPR "kit" is fully and properly inletted and ready to screw together, and shoot. should one choose, and you should, rasping/filing/sanding down the proud wood to meet the furniture is the work required. finishing is no more than applying an optional stain, but most important is to protect the wood with either a straight oil finish (linseed oil with dryers) or oil/varnish finish (i.e. - tru-oil).

mine sure wasn't. I spent a couple of short days working on the barrel channel. The barrel sat about a half inch off of the end cap as it came.

[rfd]

mine sure wasn't. I spent a couple of short days working on the barrel channel. The barrel sat about a half inch off of the end cap as it came.

i've heard of a very few that were "off" in one manner or another. very few. guess you "won" that lottery. bummers, but good you could fix whatever that issue was about.

[duckey]

Well, after about 5 hours I got the butt plate and toe plate to a 0000 steel wool shiny finish. I think I'll finish sand the stock next and then start working on the barrel. I bought a mill file and Dykem.....the barrel is not that bad but I might just smooth it up for practice and just get some experience doing it.

[rfd]

if ya haven't done so yet, the ante-chamber is fulla proofing residue, clean it out first with a .32 brush with a wet patch wrapped around it, then clean the chamber and barrel with a jagged wet patch.

[duckey]

rfd....I was thinking I needed to clean the barrel. I is it worth taking out breach plug if possible or just stick to regular cleaning methods?

[duckey]

I Plum browned all the steel furniture minus the trigger guard as I am darn tired of polishing metal. Cleaned everything up with Acetone and then into the 280 degree oven for 45 min. Did 4 coats this way, steel wooling and hot soapy water inbetween. Came out nice. Put a coat of motor oil on and will let set overnight. Also did three coats on the lock using same method. Next I'll finish sand stock and wisker it, then on to staining and sealing.

[rfd]

there is no pressing need to remove the breech plug. i posted above how to clean out the barrel's ante-chamber. that's all that's needed to be done before loading and firing the first time (which should be a "blank" shot of maybe 10 grains of bp to scare out any oil left after you cleaned and lubed the barrel).

the only reason i can think of to want to pull the plug on a new barrel is not to clean out the ante-chamber, but to apply a good anti-seize lube so that the plug can be removed after the gun's been shot. there is no lube of any type on any of these offshore breech plugs. bp residue will eventually get into the plug threads. it will be hell to remove such a plug, but only IF it needs removing, which basically it shouldn't. maybe.

however, it's an investarms rifle, so the breech plug can be removed without much hassle, if any at all. there's the hobbyist way of breech removal and the pro way - it's just a matter of tools. in both cases you'll need a good bench mounted vise.

it can be very hard to see the barrel/breech joint as the barrel is filed and polished after the plug is installed. once located, scratch in a fine line witness mark or two on the barrel's bottom, scratching across the breech plug and the barrel. you'll use those marks to realign the barrel when the plug gets screwed back into the barrel.

the hobbyist approach is to pad the vise jaws with good plywood or heavy stiff leather, and also wrap a few layers of painters tape on the barrel within a 1/2" or so of the breech plug joint in order to limit torque to the barrel itself. apply the largest wrench you have to the breech plug, protecting the plug with something like cut aluminum can. it will mar the metal no matter what. you may need to slip a 2' to 3' iron pipe over the wrench's handle for added leverage.

better tools to pull an offshore patent breech would be a rice barrel company's octagonal vise pads ($40), and a large flat jawed wrench such as an 18" reed corp (about $70), along with a special wrench socket that's made for these offshore patent breech plugs which is available on ebay for about $30 (they're sized to match the barrel - the GP barrels are 15/16"). this wrench socket also needs some aluminum can shimming to protect the barrel from serious marring, though typically there will be some light marring. it takes a goodly amount of torque to get the breech plug to move. once it moves, it's easy from that point on to spin off.

[duckey]

If there no reason then I'll just go with plan B.

[duckey]

Started prepping barrel tonight. Took me one hour to draw file two flats. Carding and chalking every two to three passes and slowly workingman way down from the muzzle to breech. The breech seems to need more attention. Overall it is a great practice in taking ones time so as not to round a corner! Should be done tomorrow night and then will bring the surface up to a 320 grit. Gonna try Tacks Tried and true rust brown, I also have Plum brown left and a restaurant sized oven I could use to heat the entire deal up at once...Still thinking on that one.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

careful with over polishing that barrel, doing so can cause the browning process to not take. Plus if you are rust browning it, why bother with a smooth polish? 150 grit is the most I use.

[duckey]

I have been seeing different info on processes and procedures for finishing a barrel. I was thinking that 320 seemed to smooth, ill do what ever folks recommend for a cold rust finish, I am using a Smooth cut mill file and wondering if this would compare to a 150 +- finish. Would it need more prep after filing?

[duckey]

Finished filling all the flats on the barrel then hit em all with 150 grit, touched up a few spots. Assembled gun and pencil marked some high spots to take down on the stock. Need to take down the flats on the breech hook.

[duckey]

rfd or FrontierMuzzleloadin

So I need some help with fitting the barrel and tang into stock. I have the barrel all mill filed and brought to a 150 finish, the tang (unfinished) is screwed into stock. The Lyman directions on fitting are lacking. Should the bottom flat of the Tang sit against the wood of the stock?? I have a strong 1/16" of gap under the bottom flat on the tang....with this gap I have just a slight spring in barrel which I feel is just right and after installing the wedges everything is snug, and the flats on barrel and tang are just about flush. The fit of the tang and breech lug are perfect when together out of the stock. I did take a little wood out from the breech area of the stock. Now if I tighten the forward tang screw down and close the gap I have more than desired spiring in the barrel. Is there a happy medium??

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

A slight spring is ok. On all of my GPR, there was a very large gap under the tang and stock channel. 1/16" is nothing at all. You can actually shim with a washer or bedding compound if it bothers you.

If the gap/spring increases with the screws tightened down all the way, Its time to bed the tang.

[rfd]

i first fit the barrel's hook into the tang, then the tang and barrel are placed ON their stock routs together, and the tang bolt is slowly screwed home as pressue is placed on the barrel/tang assembly. the fit is very tight. go slow. it will all fit like a hand-in-glove. i've built 4 GPR's and numerous DGW's, all in the same manner and all of them have fitted well and deep into their routs, with lots of proud stock wood around the tang to later remove. the key for me was learning to first hook up the barrel/tang, insert the tang bolt, and use the screwing in of the tang bolt to seat the barrel/tang. i lube the tang bolt threads and dry fit just the bolt into its bushing that's captured in the stock, deep in the lock mortise, prior to adding it to the barrel/tang assembly.

[duckey]

Thanks for the info. I believe I am on track now. I may make a wood shim for under the tang flat. Next I'll just bring the tang flats down to meet barrel flats.

[bubba.50]

if yer talkin' about a small space under the tang when lookin' at it from the front it's nothin' to even concern yerself with. if you want some extra ork you could fix the one big flaw in the Great Plains Rifle design, that awful fish belly on the bottom of the buttstock 'tween the triggerguard & the buttplate.

[RBak]

the one big flaw in the Great Plains Rifle design, that awful fish belly on the bottom of the buttstock 'tween the triggerguard & the buttplate.

Yep, take that out and ya have a nice looking rifle, IMO
Two it out of the last two I have owned and IMO there ain't no fleas on those dogs.
Pretty sharp looking rifles, in fact.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/Guns/GPRforSale.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RussB256/media/Guns/GPRforSale.jpg.html)

Russ

[54bore]

Or put a nice lace up pad on it! I actually took my dremel tool and rounded the sharp edge on top of the Crescent butt plate, when i say it was sharp, that is an understatement!! Mine was dangerously knife edge sharp, even though i put this pad on, i was afraid the sharp *** would cut through the new Pad.

191547

[duckey]

I am not really concerned about the small gap under the tang flat just seeing what is standard practice with fitting tang and barrel. I did find a small gap (after installing barrel and tang into stock) on the mating surfaces of the tang and breech plug. I ended up taking a little bit of wood off of the tang mortise (using inletting black) and the tang and barrel fit right in and the gap was closed. Now I have some more proud wood to remove around the tang....then i just need to fit butt plate to stock as there is a noticeable gap where the top of the but plate meets the comb...then hopefully move onto finish sanding, staining and sealing. I have just about got all the hardware Plum Browned, except the trigger guard. Not sure if I'll rust brown or Plumb Brown the barrel. I like the Plum brown color, not sure if the cold rust brown will look the same or similar....never used these products before. I did get Track's Tried and True cold rust brown...undecided. It's coming along quite nicley.

[54bore]

This is an old picture from forum member obssd1958, I totally understand the 'above the bicep hold' with the Crescent butt plate, but in my opinion they are TOTAL GARBAGE for my use! I can just picture a 'heat of the moment' Elk situation that i had to pull up REAL QUICK at some odd angle, 'BANG' and end up like this guy!

191548

[charlie b]

Yep, I let the shoulder pad slip a little one time and cut a nice line in my shoulder. Didn't help that it was 450gn PP with 80gn powder :)

Next step for mine is a grinding wheel and leather butt pad.

[54bore]

Rates right up at the top of dumbest designs i have ever seen, the top of the Lyman Great Plains butt plate is like a sharp knife. Mine is NOT anymore, plus a lace up pad.

191695

[duckey]

Finally got the tang fitted today and brought the proud wood down. Reassembled the gun and pencil marked areas of proud wood to bring down a dite more. Tested triggers, and they are just fine. I stripped the rear trigger guard screw out. Seems the screw is just long enough to bite the wood and strip, so just need a longer screw. The ram rod is a tad tight going in and out so I'll sand er down. I'll also chamfer down the ram rod entry hole in the stock as it is catching as it enters.

[rfd]

shove a toothpick into the stock wood hole for that stripped trigger guard screw, break off the toothpick, screw in the trigger guard. the ramrod ferrule ends should get pinned with cut off brass nails. to make ramming easier by not having to flip the rod around during the load, i grind off the rammer's belled mouth parallel to the rod, put the cleaning jag on the ferruled end, and send the ramming end into the stock. then it's just up and down during the load process, and no rod flipping.

[duckey]

I'll give the toothpick ago. Got the barrel Plum Browned with three coats the last couple nights. Came out decent. Will now finish up sanding and prepping the stock. I have LMF American Walnut stain, should I use it straight any go with one coat or dilute and go with one and see how it turns out. Not looking for an overly dark dark finish but want wood character to stand out a bit.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

This is an old picture from forum member obssd1958, I totally understand the 'above the bicep hold' with the Crescent butt plate, but in my opinion they are TOTAL GARBAGE for my use! I can just picture a 'heat of the moment' Elk situation that i had to pull up REAL QUICK at some odd angle, 'BANG' and end up like this guy!

191548

Yep held in the wrong spot.

[54bore]

FrontierMuzzleloading, YEP I very much agree! BUT, had this been ANYTHING besides a sharp Crescent butt plate I can't see something like this happening? The Crescent butt plate reminds me of a Bisley or Plow Revolver grip frame, some can shoot them and some can't, i for one can NOT shoot a Bisley grip frame well, they just don't fit me right, but i can shoot a Plow Grip REALLY well UNLESS it is a Square back trigger guard (Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum with Square back trigger guard bites my middle knuckle everytime) Point being, not all of us are the same. My dad liked the feel of the Crescent butt plate on my New Lyman Great Plains Hunter Rifle and said if it were his rifle he would not change anything about it, I on the other hand DESPISED it, it was the first thing i changed.

I know how to hold and shoot a Crescent butt plate, if i were a target shooter only, period correct character, etc. i would be perfectly fine with one, but my passion is hunting Big Game, My fear of the Crescent butt plate is 'what if' i jumped a bull elk and i was in a 'bad spot' contorted, twisted whatever it be? And in the heat of the moment I didn't mount the gun idealy and pulled the trigger, I definitely don't wanna end up like the guy in the picture above, i would rather go get on my elk and not have to 'pick the stock out of my shoulder'

[bubba.50]

that little boo-boo in the picture don't look life-threatenin' to me. I believe I'd risk it for a shot on a big bull elk.

[54bore]

that little boo-boo in the picture don't look life-threatenin' to me. I believe I'd risk it for a shot on a big bull elk.

LOL! I would to bubba IN A HEARTBEAT!! But i figure i can prevent it from even being a thought by doing this

192160

[duckey]

Fit the butt plate a little better today and brought the wood down flush. Finished sanding stock and am on my 4th wiskering which should be it. Hope to stain it later tonight. I pinned the ferrules on the ram rod. Sander down the rod a bit until it slid in and out smoother, then wrapped some 1/4" wet cotton rope around the rod and took a torch to it and got a nice spiral look to it. Hit it with some 0000 steel wool and stained and sealed it up....looks real nice! Working on polishing trigger guard which is my least favorite part of this kit, I'm not gonna bring it to a 600 grit finish as I like the look of the plum brown on a rougher finish. I drifted in the front sight and rear sight. Put two coats of Plum brown on the rear as it was to bright, wanted it to match barrel color. Installed ramrod pipes and vent liner. She's a coming along quite nice!

[rfd]

man, yer puttin' in a whole heapin' buncha work on the GPR, and it sounds like it's coming out well for ya ... Great! but we need pics!!

in the meanwhile i got me yet another GPR .54 kit gun. does the fun ever end? h3ll no! :p :D

[duckey]

Well I figur if I wanna put the $ into a totw bucks county kit I should take my time with this one. Only working on it a little at a time due to life getting in the way. I'll post a pic of the finished gun. Put one coat of lmf aw on it this afternoon. I may try one more coat to darken it up a bit. rfd sounds like you gotta lot of kits to build. Lol...I'm already thinking of a pistol or another rifle kit.

[rfd]

any stain is gonna change hue and contrast when hit with most any kinda clear - before using more stain, clear up part of the barrel channel to see what it'll look like and see if more stain is needed.

yeah, i sure have fun with these cheap but darned good guns. plus the wife appreciates i ain't spending time in bars with loose women. :)

[54bore]

man, yer puttin' in a whole heapin' buncha work on the GPR, and it sounds like it's coming out well for ya ... Great! but we need pics!!

in the meanwhile i got me yet another GPR .54 kit gun. does the fun ever end? h3ll no! :p :D

No it sure doesn't! I was just out with my Fast twist GM LRH .45 Cal Hawken this morning, shot my all time best 100 yard group.

[Beagle333]

Midway said today (3/31) is the last day of the sale. Better get yer name on one if you want it.

[duckey]

I want one but I don't need one. I was wondering when the sale ended. Well I put another coat of stain on and it looks just about where I want it. The LMF stain sure goes along way! Didn't have any wiskering after first coat. Looking forward to working in some oil and watching the color and figure come out, prolly my favorite part of finishing wood. Now I just have that pesky trigger guard to mess with.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Www.muzzle-loaders.com has the gpr flintlock kit for $475 + $2 shipping.

[duckey]

I'm glad I saved $110 through Midway. Got 5 coats of oil rubbed into stock yesterday. Put a sixth on this morning, slowly but surly it's sealing up the grain. Didn't use a wood sealer after stain, figured I'd just take my time a do it with the totw oil. Maybe I'll finish trigger guard today.

[duckey]

Ok, I stopped at 6 coats of oil. I actually had to take off the 6th coat as it was to heavy a coat and didn't dry, just gummy. Used some turpentine, then hand rubbed in the last coat and it looks real nice! Assembled the gun, had to jb weld the fore end cap on as it was loose after pinning on. Realized that the back mortise for trigger guard was excessively deep, or I didn't take the wood down enough. The front mortise for trigger guard was 1/2" short, which would have allowed the rear flat of trigger guard to sit into it's mortise, either way I didn't catch this earlier on, it might not even be an issue....basically I made a filler piece for rear mortise and glued it in. Last step is filing and finishing trigger guard and she's all done. I'll post some pics when I'm done.

[charlie b]

LOL! I would to bubba IN A HEARTBEAT!! But i figure i can prevent it from even being a thought by doing this

192160

So where do you get the all leather ones?

[duckey]

Well I got the trigger guard polished up last couple days, plum browned it tonight 3 coats. Got it sitting with some oil on it overnight. Tomorrow I'll slap her on and she'll be all done Clark! I'll post some pics. Now I need a RB mold. Had a blast building it. The gun really turned a corner for me when I stained and sealed the stock. Thinking about a pistol kit next.

[rfd]

good deal duckey! now go on and post us some pix, please!

[duckey]

Here yah go.
192619
192621
192625192620192624
Recap...laurel Mountain Forge American Walnut Stain x2 coats. Track of the Wolf original oil finish x6 coats. Birchwood Casey Plumb Brown 3-4 coats ( diferant parts took color differently).

[rfd]

sweet job, indeed! :2_high5:

[bubba.50]

sweet reward for all yer hard work.

[Beagle333]

Very nice work!!!

[duckey]

Thanks. I am sad the project is over, but there is a cure for that! I may do a couple more coats of oil on the stock and polish the brass on the ramrod a little more. I have the bug. Right before I started this project I bought a subscription to Muzzleloader Magazine to get me in the mood. What a great publication and man those guns in there are truly works of art. Just gotta get to the range now and test her out.

[rfd]

muzzleloader is an excellent mag, i just got 4 years worth of back order copies, every one is a gem.

a final break in the weather shaping up for me next week = range time at last. got a gaggle of guns to baptize.

duckey, don't forget to swab out the GPR ante-chamber.

[54bore]

You did a Very nice job!!

[duckey]

It'll be mayish before I get to range. I did clean out the anti chamber after you mentioned it. It wasn't to bad but did hav some proofing gunk in. there. Put another coat of oil (7th) on the stock today. Trying to seal up the grain a bit more.

[duckey]

rfd....what size round ball u like shooting in these guns? Lee has a .530 and .535. I'm thinking about the .530.

[rfd]

rfd....what size round ball u like shooting in these guns? Lee has a .530 and .535. I'm thinking about the .530.

.530 callahan bag mold ball, .015" patch strip that's been rubbed with gate feo #1 grease lube and then heat gunned into the cloth weave. i also lightly coned the muzzle, for easier ball seating. i make new ramrods, too - but also grind down the bell on the stock rod ferrule parallel and use it for ball seating, with a jag at the muzzle end. this allows ball loading with a rod up 'n' down motion, no awkward flipping around of the rod.

[duckey]

Well I had my first casting session in over a year! yesterday I cast about 100 or so 224 gn .530 RB's in hopes of shooting my new GPR kit that I finished this winter. I have also made lubed some .010 and .015 patch material I bought through TOTW with my Beeswax/lard/olive oil mix. I took apart my GPR yesterday and gave all the mortises a few coats of tracks original oil finish to seal everything up. Also rubbed in two more coats of oil on the stock. I am still seeing open grain if i look close enough. I have about 8 coats of oil on it now.

[duckey]

Well the wife and kids were gone for the weekend so I went to the range and shot my GPR that had been sitting in my safe for a while just waiting to be shot. I started with 50 grains of Schutzen black and a couple grains in the pan, no ball.....and touched it off. Had ignition! I started with 70 grains with a .010 patch lubed (beeswax, lard, and olive oil). Didn't like the fit in the muzzle so I used a .015 patch. I went up to 80 then 90 grains of powder, setteled on 90 then slowly filed front sight down as I was hitting low. I finally put one darn near the X and stopped filing. I fought with ignition the entire day...it was ether no or little spark or a flash in the pan with no boom. It was a hot and humid day in the 80's. I ran a couple patches down the barrel every 2-3 shots. A few times I just could not get ignition and had to the pull lock off and unscrew the touch hole plug and sprinkle a few granules of powder into it, after that it would fire. I used the propper sized flint as mentioned on this thread, English flint from TOTW. I positioned flint as discussed on this thread accordingly, switched out flints with new flints sometimes with good results for a few shots but no consistency. The frizzen looks a tad worn out in my opinion. I have attached a few pics. My targets shows (orange and white target) the shots that are the lowest are from 50 yards bench rested using 70 then 80 grains, the upper shots are from my .50 cal percussion. The cardboard target shows one shot on the x and 4-5'shots lower right with 90 grains. I had 2 hang fires and then a few cases of the flinch and pulled shot. :(. Lastly is my frizzen. Feedback welcome. The blue tape on orange and white target is covering up .223 holes (had to recycle a target as I was all out of fresh ones). All the orange dots are from the .54 GPR (lower holes) and .50 cal TC Grey Hawk). When I pulled the touch hole liner out after failed ignition it was never fouled, I could see day light through it. Also I did clean out the proofing gunk from anti chamber as instructed earlier in this thread.

198590
198591
198592
198593

[rfd]

Here's a link to an excellent article in Muzzle Blasts that you might find of interest with regards to yer ignition issues ...

http://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol4no4/articles/mbo44-3.shtml

Also, I'll add - yer rifle has an ante-chamber and if it starts to build up with crud it will kill ignition pronto because it obfuscates the touch hole or mitigates the powder charge. It must get cleaned out and be left dry. I use a .32 bronze brush with a patch wrapped around it, work it in good with a moist (not wet) solution of whatever (including just plain water) and follow up with a dry patch or two.

[duckey]

rfd that's a good read! I believe I have identified that I have a soft frizzen as I have orange sparks, need to clean better both the bore and then pan, as I did notice wet black goo in it. I did notice my flint was getting gooy/black and had to be wiped off. There are a few more things I have to check on the lock to see what else might be going on.

[duckey]

So I am pondering the idea of removing the frizzen, sanding down the face and then heat the and quench in oil.....Plan B.....spend the $175 for the replacement L&R lock from TOTW. RFD....the article you mentioned said that a belt sander could be used for the frizzen face, I have an 80 grit belt, I am wondering if this is too aggressive. It's not a lot of surface area to sand I might just do it by hand with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel. Any thoughts?

[rfd]

Jim Kibler (gunmaker extraordinare):
I just polish them as hardened. Sometimes I just use stones, but other times especially for a rough casting I have used a sanding disc for an air grinder to get the two big angled flats roughed out. Depending on who made it you may be able to file the pan cover. Typically with a Chambers lock only part of the pan cover is hardened to the point where it can't be filed. I believe he has mentioned before that he heats the frizzen face with a torch and doesn't attempt to heat the pan cover to a point where it will harden when quenched. Naturally some of it does get hardened, but not the whole thing.

[duckey]

Thanks, will give it a try

[duckey]

So yesterday I took the frizzen off, sanded down the face to remove the gouges, then heated the frizzen to a cherry red and oil quenched it. Cleaned face off and reassembled. I cocked her back and pulled the trigger. I got ok orange sparks and a gouge on the frizzen where the flint truck. Rather annoyed at this point but I guess I like problem solving. I tried flipping the flint over, tried a new flint etc and still getting ok orange sparks. I put some 2f in the pan and got a flash. I am new to this game...I read rfd's article for troubleshooting flintlock problems. Should I be getting white hot sparks? Should my frizzen be getting all gouged up? I am leaning twords an L&R lock. I know these are kit guns so maybe not the best quality materials or parts. I feel like the frizzen is just not hard enough, most likely accast part.

[duckey]

Anyone headed to the Dixon Gun Works fare the weeken of the 28th, Kenton PA. I'm going

[rfd]

while white hot is perhaps better than orange hot, all that matters is that the pan powder will touch off and send heat down the touch hole to set off the main charge. i have no issues with orange hot sparks of hammer steel metal. i find it best to use 'fine' english flints - thin ones with razor sharp cutting edges - that will strike the hammer steel (aka 'frizzen') at least 2/3rds up top. in the best of all worlds, when the flint is at half cock it should be near touching the frizzen or about 1/8" away. the flint should end up beak down and near the pan but away from the touch hole volcano gases that will want to erode that fine edge. keep it all clean of bp residue - frizzen, frizzen pan cover, pan, flint edge, touch hole picked.

as to that hammer steel hardness, maybe it does need rehardening or resurfacing ... however, if yer getting consistent pan ignition (and you can test this as many times as ya like without a load in the chamber, without going afield or to the range), then there really is no problem.

[duckey]

Well its sounds as though I am doing everything right that you have mentioned. Next range session I will do a better job cleaning before each shot to include the anti chamber. I do need to buy a .32 cal bronze brush to get that area of the barrel cleaner. I am using TOTW English flints of the proper size, and placing them in the jaws with leather, flint bevel down. I may try setting it a tad farther back in the jaws to allow more space from frizzen at half cock. If the range wasn't an hour away i'd be there more often. Should I be getting gouges on the frizzen where the flint strikes?

[rfd]

the GPR ante-chamber is .336" in diameter and 1.058" in length. i use a .32 bronze brush with a 2" arsenal cotton patch over its nose. in a pinch a .22 patched brush will do as well.

there shouldn't be gouges on the hammer steel face, and that'd be an indication it's too soft and needs surface hardening. i did that decades ago with 'kasenite', which is no longer available. i bought some 'cherry red' (kasenite substitute) but haven't used it yet. check out youtube for both.

[duckey]

Ive seen a video on the tube that used cherry red, rather simple. Well thanks for the help.

[T.Schenck]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Flintlock1812]

there is more to understand about a flinter than a percussion gun, but the learning curve is not steep and the deep satisfaction of such a reliable gun makes smacking critters or paper or steel so much more Fun.

So True!

[rfd]

ignition shakedown range visit #2 for the latest GPR .50 "screwdriver kit" gun. i cast up a buncha .490 balls, lubed up some .010" cotton patch strips with gato feo, and used swiss 3f down the tube (52 grains) and in the pan. the touch hole liner needs future fiddling (no surprise) and required getting fed a bit from the pan for consistency. every other shot or so was a dry no-ball shot, just checking ignition. no fouling control, super easy loading, not bad accuracy off the bench at 25 yards with some sight adjustments. ignition with a fuller english flint was good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMqidS3PLjo

http://i.imgur.com/1i2n0be.jpg

dull flints suk big time! An old "common" (double edged) gun flint with many dozens of good firings finally lost its edge, After 3 failures I flipped it over to its second edge, which was also a tad worn. After 2 failures I had enuf and swapped it out for a new flint that wouldn't spark on its first flight and required a bit of knapping. Note that when I brushed the ultra tiny knapped flint shards off the bench I got a nice 1/4" cut on the pinky. Flint can be surgically sharp, beware! After that, she fired every time. Life is still good. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F71HImhkwk0

[duckey]

Are you serial numbers on this kit within the recall from Lyman? Just curious.


the $440 GPR .54 flintlock "kit" arrived 3 hours ago and i just got time to open the box. the lock, trigger, butt plate, toe plate and nose cap were already installed. within 15 minutes i turned in 16 screws to add the tang, barrel, under rib, trigger guard, and 4 wedge escutcheons. gee, that was hard work. :) it all fits quite well, no wood removal, no misalignments, no issue of any kind - as expected.

http://i.imgur.com/KPhe9ql.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IAa7ZIw.jpg

[rfd]

bought my current GPR in the spring of last year, missed the recall list by over 800 numbers, good to go.

[duckey]

That’s good! Bought mine Mar 4th 2017 so thinking it was manufactured sometime before March 1st.

[rfd]

problem is with the breech plug, not the barrel. lyman asks for barrel to be returned because very few will be able to remove its plug.

this it finished and the .50 bore reamed out to a .54 by bobby hoyt ....

https://i.imgur.com/IEObLLz.jpg

[Eddie2002]

About ten years ago I built an Investa arms Hawkins .50 caliber flinter kit I got at Cabellas. First kit and first flinter for me, it came out nice but like Ducky it wouldn't give a real hot spark no matter how hot I got the frizzen before quenching. Tried different weights of oil and even a water quench on the striker face. Ended up ordering a Seiler small rifle frizzen in the raw from Muzzleloaders Supply. It didn't take a lot of work with files and a drill press to get it to fit the stock Investa Arms lock. It looks like it was made for it and gives a nice hot spark. Just a different way to skin the cat that worked for me.

[rfd]

the problem, if any, is with the investarms lock geometry, which is not at all unlike the spanish and other offshore flintlock arms. replacing with an L&R RPL05 lock cures that issue pronto.

https://i.imgur.com/0lQ0kTJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jnnceEA.jpg

[Eddie2002]

By replacing the frizzen on the Investarms lock with a Seiler small rifle frizzen I was able to get the flint to hit on the upper third of the striker plate instead of the bottom 1/4 of the Investarms frizzen. Not much of a change but better geometry for the flint which resulted in a much better spark. It made a big difference with my rifle.
It looks like the L+R RPL05 lock is a close drop in which would of been the way I would of gone if I knew about back when I was having trouble. The L+R locks are also nicer looking IMHO. Might splurge for one if I can save up the cash.
Real pretty rock lock you have there rfd.

[duckey]

bought my current GPR in the spring of last year, missed the recall list by over 800 numbers, good to go.

Finally got home from vacation and checked my Serial #, I am in the clear.

[Nit Wit]

I have one with an L+R Replacement flintlock in .50 cal. Nice rifle but heavy!
Nit Wit

[rfd]

i like the 9#+ GPR weight with such a short barrel, points well.