158gr SWC and Unique in 357 snub

[hendere]

There are a million threads out there about the 38 Special FBI load but I can't find anything specifically about the 357. I recently started using a S&W model 60 after using a 642 for years. I decided in a hurry that full on Mag loads won't be for me in this gun, but do I gain anything with switching to 357 cases and adding a bit more Unique? I've heard in the past that 357 doesn't do much better in a 2" barrel.
I guess my question is, using a soft 158 grain SWC bullet do you gain velocity using say 5.4 or 5.6 grains of Unique in a 357 Mag case over 5.3 grains in a 38 Special case in a 2" barrel? Would another powder perform better?

I really need a chronograph.....

[sniper]

This is as close as I can come to a 2" barrel...4", 5.5 gr Unique, standard primer, 357 brass, 150-160gr cast SWC booolit. Alloy, close to Lyman #2. 860 fps, chron'oed, minus ~50 fps for -2 inches of barrel= ~800 fps.
I hope that helps somewhat. :smile:

[Outpost75]

Chronograph data from my Ruger SP101 chambered in .38 Special with 2" barrel with 0.004" cylinder gap:

Federal 147-grain HSHP +P+ LE 922 fps, 15 Sd
Winchester 158-gr. X38SPD +P 831 fps, 6 Sd
Winchester 130-gr. SXT +P 920 fps, 23 Sd
Winchester 110-gr. STHP 852 fps, 20 Sd

Hornady 158-gr. XTP 11.0 Alliant #2400 924 fps, 21 Sd - Approximates Federal +P+ LE
Remington 158-gr. SWC .358" 4.0 Bullseye 842 fps, 4 Sd - Approximates X38SPD "FBI Load"

[Boogieman]

Just got a Ruger SP101 3" . 38SPCL 158 gr. LWSC HP 5.2 Unique crono's 885 fps. 357mag.# 358156 Lyman 158gr gc swc 13.2 gr. 2400 runs 1220 fps. The 38 load equals the Rem. FBI load

[Piedmont]

I think you gain something by using magnum cases. I have read, but not tested this, that a .38 spl. plus P load loses something like 30-40 fps when fired in a magnum chamber because of gas blow by in that 1/10 to 1/8" part of the .357 chamber beyond the .38 case. This is when compared to firing the same load in a .38 spl chamber and sounds logical.

So if you loaded your magnum case to .38 plus p pressures you get all the velocity back and a perhaps a bit more. Or you could just buy some Buffalo Bore +P .38 loads that shoot 100 fps. faster than competitors' FBI loads and let it go at that, shooting them in your .357 and more than making up the difference.

[USSR]

There are a million threads out there about the 38 Special FBI load but I can't find anything specifically about the 357. I recently started using a S&W model 60 after using a 642 for years. I decided in a hurry that full on Mag loads won't be for me in this gun, but do I gain anything with switching to 357 cases and adding a bit more Unique? I've heard in the past that 357 doesn't do much better in a 2" barrel.
I guess my question is, using a soft 158 grain SWC bullet do you gain velocity using say 5.4 or 5.6 grains of Unique in a 357 Mag case over 5.3 grains in a 38 Special case in a 2" barrel? Would another powder perform better?

I really need a chronograph.....

For my Model 19 snubbie, I came up with an FBI load using .38 Special brass, my cast 158gr SWCHP bullets and 3 different powders: HS-6, AA#5, and Unique. To answer your question, yes there are better powders than Unique; HS-6 and AA#5. 7.0gr of HS-6 or 6.4gr of AA#5 will put you at 850 - 900 fps in .38 Special brass. I would add 0.3gr more powder if using .357 brass due to it's greater case capacity. Hope that helps.

Don

[Petrol & Powder]

There are a million threads out there about the 38 Special FBI load but I can't find anything specifically about the 357. I recently started using a S&W model 60 after using a 642 for years. I decided in a hurry that full on Mag loads won't be for me in this gun, but do I gain anything with switching to 357 cases and adding a bit more Unique? I've heard in the past that 357 doesn't do much better in a 2" barrel.
I guess my question is, using a soft 158 grain SWC bullet do you gain velocity using say 5.4 or 5.6 grains of Unique in a 357 Mag case over 5.3 grains in a 38 Special case in a 2" barrel? Would another powder perform better?

I really need a chronograph.....

I don't think you're going to get a huge increase in velocity by going to a .357 casing and .1 -.3 grains more of Unique. The bigger casing will slightly offset the advantage of a slightly larger powder charge. You also have the limitation of a 2" barrel.
The longer .357 casing coupled with the short ejector rod stroke of a 2" J-frame might be another factor in staying with 38 Special casings.
As for Unique, it certainly has a long history but I lean towards powders that meter a bit better. You may be able to get similar results (or maybe better) with CFE Pistol, ww-231 or even Bullseye.

Just personal preference here, but I'd rather stay in the 38 Special +P territory.

Edit - I just read USSR's post and agree that AA#5 may be your best bet.

[9.3X62AL]

IME using full-length Magnum casings to duplicate "Special-level" loadings......I add about 10%+ powder weight to the Special data in a Magnum case for velocity equivalency, bullet-for-bullet. E.g., 44 Special "Skeeter's Load" (Lyman #429421 atop 7.5 grains of Unique in 44 Special cases, gives 925-950 FPS). In magnum cases, 8.2 to 8.5 grains of Unique accomplishes the same goal--and it is a worthwhile one, because these loads are accurate and very tractable. All-day shooting with the Loudenboomers.

A S&W J-frame 357 Magnum shooting SAAMI-level loadings is a handful. The Ruger SP-101 is A LOT more manageable for me. Either one would tame down nicely with a load that duplicated the old FBI 38 Special 158 LSWCHP +P charge. It has been a long time since I've carted around a 2" 38 Special, but you can't do much better than the old FBI 38 load in those little rollers. Effective--manageable--accurate.

[Larry Gibson]

5.8 gr Unique in 357 cases under a 158 gr cast (358156 or TL358-158-SWC) duplicates the Winchester LSWCHP "FBI" loads pressure in my Contender test barrel (Oehler M43) and velocity wise in my 2 /12" M19 and 6" Ruger Security Six. It is my 38 SPL +P "FBI" duplication load in 357 magnum cases. I use 6.5 gr Unique for a magnum level load.

With a 358477, 358156 or the TL358-158-SWC I use 5.5 gr Unique in 38 SPL cases to duplicate the Winchester "FBI" 38 SPL +P load. I cast them soft and HP them also.

Larry Gibson

[dubber123]

loaded to "real" .357 specs, the .357 does indeed outperform the .38 even in short barrels. It's a substantial gain. It also comes with blast and recoil, possibly more than you want. I carried a S&W snub of various models for years, all in .38 Spl. I chronographed some loads through a 2.5" model 19, and was surprised at the difference between standard .357 loads and my +P .38 loads.

[hendere]

Some great info here. Thank you all very much. I'll probably stick with the 38 cases (they do seem to eject easier) and look into increasing the load a tad and maybe look
at AA5. Looking at other's chronograph data is fascinating to me. I really need to get one. Thanks again guys.

[Petrol & Powder]

.......................

A S&W J-frame 357 Magnum shooting SAAMI-level loadings is a handful. The Ruger SP-101 is A LOT more manageable for me. Either one would tame down nicely with a load that duplicated the old FBI 38 Special 158 LSWCHP +P charge. It has been a long time since I've carted around a 2" 38 Special, but you can't do much better than the old FBI 38 load in those little rollers. Effective--manageable--accurate.

/\ Could not have said it better /\

The old FBI load may seem pedestrian, outdated, old school - whatever label one might attach; but it is STILL a great load in a short barreled revolver.
I DO cart around a 2" 38 Special and the "FBI Load" is still my choice despite many other options.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I suggest using full wadcutters in your snubby 38 in the 150 grain range. I use 6.5 grains of an AA#5 mil surp clone and get 950 fps out of a couple J Frame snubbies. Yes it's bouncy but nothing near as tough as my 1300 fps loads in an SP101 357 2.25" gun.

Full wadcutters over 900 fps are impressive on water jugs. I much prefer them to SWC in the same velocity. Pop some jugs for yourself and see the difference.

I do think you're on the right track of loading to a "controllable" velocity. Much better to score a hit at moderate velocity than score a miss with a hammer of Thor load.

[Hi-Speed]

I like using 357 Magnum cases in Ruger SP101 2.25 inch with Speer’s published load 158 gr LSWCHP and 6.0 grs of Unique. Velocity runs approx. 865 FPS.

[charlie b]

I have always used .357 cases in my magnum revolvers (Taurus 805, Python and SP101), even with reduced loads.

Most of the Python shooting is done with basically +P .38 loads in the magnum case. I love AA5 and AA7 for the .357 (and the .45). Fairly clean burning and meters really well.

FWIW, I segregate the 'mild' loads from the full pressure mag loads by case color. The nickel plated cases are full bore, the brass ones are the medium power.

[RED BEAR]

I would think that there is something to be gained with the mag cases you should be able to find a happy medium between power and recoil. My old hands don't handle recoil like they used to.

[35 Whelen]

Last fall I worked up a mid-range sort of load for my .357's, which are a pair of 4 3/4" Uberti Hombres, a Ruger Security 6, and a '92 Rossi 20" carbine. I settled on 5 5 grs. and a 153 or 158 gr. SWC (depending on which mold I cast from) which yielded almost exactly 1,000 fps. Very accurate load too.

https://oi60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Hombre%2075%20yds._zpso8h5qtye.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Hombre%2075%20yds._zpso8h5qtye.jpg.html)

35W

[sniper]

I found out yesterday that the Speer 357 Magnum 135 gr. Short Barrel load shoots to the same point of aim as my 150-158 gr. .38 +P level loads, and doesn't have much more recoil. I loaded alternating Speer and reloads in the cylinder, and was surprised how little difference there was between the loads. That was in a 4.2" barrel, and heavier gun, but the comparative recoil shouldn't be that much greater than a +P level load in your gun.:smile: