Lee press not giving consistent OAL.

[Idaho45guy]

I have a basic Lee single-stage press that I use for my low volume reloads. I used used RCBS dies for the .45-70 and .45 Colt with no issues.

However, I picked up a set of Lee dies for .40 S&W and have been developing loads for it.

Today, I decided to whip up a batch of .40 S&W using XTP 155gr bullets in virgin Starline brass with 4.5 grains of Titegroup. Specified OAL is 1.126.

I adjusted the Lee seating/crimping die until I got the perfect length. Since I'm paranoid about over pressure with the .40, I checked every round for OAL after I loaded it. It varied wildly from round to round. Most were longer; around 1.128 to 1.131 and a couple were shorter, around 1.125 to 1.121.

I'd adjust the die to get that particular round perfect, then the next one would be off. It took forever to get 20 perfect rounds done.

What is going on? I don't recall having this issue with my RCBS die and .45 Colt, but then again I wasn't as picky. Is this common with the Lee dies? Or could it be the press itself?

I checked primer depth to make sure I wasn't running into issues there, and then made sure I was measuring on the brass itself. No idea why it would be so inconsistent in seating the bullet.

[HeavyMetal]

I'm going to throw out an idea for you to check into, feel free to add any input you may have:

Lee seating dies are all using the O ring type adjustment "keeper" the idea is once your die is set the O ring keeps it from changing setting and, in the case of the die body itself, supposedly allows instant return to setting if you remove and reinstall the die.

Now that only applies to settings done and the die returned to the same press.

However the bullet seating stem has no locknut and even though it does have the O ring you will still fight the "flex" within the threads of the adjusting stem, which can cause the problem your seeing.

How to stop this is something I am playing with but I hesitate to drill and tap the die body for a set screw as the seating stem is thin aluminum and easily damaged with a heavy hand.

Might be looking into a Jam nut system as used by every other die maker but Lee is a bit short on adjustment threads in the seating dies so it would have to be very thin and then we got the aluminum parts again!

To add insult to injury look at a Pro 1000 or Loadmaster, the turret will also move up and down as the press is used which also contributes to OAL flexing as you reload.

I actual added some clamps to my Pro 1000 to stop that but it removes the instant die change concept, however I think many users are fed up enough with making the Pro 1000 work with one caliber that this isn't the sacrifice one might consider it to be once the unit actually works as it should!

This is posted as food for thought and hope it helps.

HM

[trails4u]

.005 either way is not a lot.....quite a bit of that could be in the bullets. Doesn't take much of a nick or slight imperfection to make .005.

[dkf]

The seater likely touches the ogive of the bullet when it pushes it into the case. There is going to be variations in the ogive, ogive to tip, tip dimensions etc of the bullet. A few thousandths either way is not going to mean anything.

[1hole]

First, I believe you're being overly picky. Your handgun isn't a bench rest tack driver and an extreme OAL spread of .010" isn't going to do anything harmful to your safety or accuracy.

Bullets aren't made with the precision of rocket parts; just for fun, try measuring the length of a few of your bullets. It's easy for normal manufacturing differences in forming the ogive and meplat to vary that much.

Next, the length variations you see are hardly due to any brand of dies. Properly used, Lee's "Dead Length" dies are probably the most consistent seaters available.

I have some fifty sets of dies from all current brands but Dillion and a half dozen more makers long gone. They all work very well. I've not wrenched a die in for decades but I've never had a die change in use, including my Lee's. And Lee's alum alloy presses, even their very small "Reloader", are far more ridged than many who have never tested them with a dial indicator believe.

Finally, a lot of such small differences can come from variations in how hard we lean on the press.

[noylj]

Sorry, but you are in the normal range for COL variation. Measure some factory rounds and you'll find the same thing. Measure your bullets and you'll find a major part of the variation.
You need to start worrying, maybe, if the extreme spread is more than 0.020".
I don't find any difference in COL variation between Lee, Hornady, and Redding dies--O-ring or no O-ring.
If you want to sweat the COL variation, get a cheap Lee reloading press ($35??) and on main press seat all bullets slightly long than take each round to the single stage press and seat the bullet in small increments until you get the Col you want. The rounds won't be any more accurate, but you'll have more confidence in them.

[Idaho45guy]

Thanks for the replies; I'll try to be less picky...

[No Blue]

Thanks for the replies; I'll try to be less picky...

You're a Lee user; SOP to blame the tool. Go to Midway and look at the user ratings for anything Lee, that's all you'll see for most of their stuff. But, as previous posters have pointed out, the seating die contacts the ogive and you're measuring off the end of the bullet. I've seen this complaint from Lee users for the last 15 years. If it was some other color press, the first inclination is user error. But if it's a Lee, it's always the tool.....

Personally, half the population is by definition, below average when it comes to mechanical ability. Those are the peeps when you tell them to adjust a spark plug gap to the thickness of dime, don't have a dime so use two nickels....

[Hannibal]

As others have already noted, the issue may be the bullets, the die, or (most likely) the method of measurement. If it really bothers you, acquire a bullet comparator and see if the problem is still there. This measurement method will help you determine where the discrepancy is, IF there is one.

[MT Chambers]

"but if it's a Lee it's always the tool" what's your point??

[LAKEMASTER]

i was getting insanely erratic oal once i switched to my new bench.

the 2x6 that the press was mounted to was flexing a little.

added a 2x6 to hold all the boards in place and the problem went away. i can only assume the fluctuation in the ram pressure was changing the " umph " the seating die gave...

stuff like that makes me wonder how many reloaders suffer from problems that their mounting equipment causes...

[mdi]

I ain't the press. Unless it's so worn out there is .125" slop all around, and prolly not even then. Bullets will vary that much, they are a swaged mass produced item that will vary in ogive, OAL, and weight. Not all bullets come off one machine and there will be variations.

Often, it's the nut behind the handle that causes variations and dirt dies. The press, even with slop, will still have the same ram travel, round to round, and the dies are solidly mounted...

[JSnover]

I'm going to throw out an idea for you to check into, feel free to add any input you may have:

However the bullet seating stem has no locknut and even though it does have the O ring you will still fight the "flex" within the threads of the adjusting stem, which can cause the problem your seeing.

How to stop this is something I am playing with but I hesitate to drill and tap the die body for a set screw as the seating stem is thin aluminum and easily damaged with a heavy hand.

HM
I have had the same problem and I'm considering using a set screw with a plastic 'thread saver' tip.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#set-screws/=16k0pfk

[PaulG67]

"I adjusted the Lee seating/crimping die until I got the perfect length."

Are you seating and crimping at the same time??

[JSnover]

I seat and crimp separately and still have +/-.005" For most of my shooting that's close enough. If I need an exact length for a small run I've been deliberately setting the die 'a little long' and running them through again after a final adjustment.

[No Blue]

"but if it's a Lee it's always the tool" what's your point??

That if it's a Lee tool, it can NEVER be a user produced screw up. It's always the fault of the tool; even when it's not.

If you have green, blue, orange, or the other red, any malfunctions are operator error. Can't be the tool. With Lee, it's always the tools fault.

You'd have to be completely clueless not to notice or understand that fact.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

Just measure a box of factory for consistent OAL. I'll bet your (+/-) tolerance is equal to, and probably tighter.

[Driver man]

I had a similar issue. I found a bit of lube in the seating die. Cleaned it ,fixed it.

[JSnover]

I had a similar issue. I found a bit of lube in the seating die. Cleaned it ,fixed it.
This is also good advice. If your OAL starts to get screwy it might just be time to clean your dies.

[Soundguy]

I've found that a thinned partial coat ( see thru thinned ) of fn polish on those aluminum threads, then allowed to dry, makes for a very good way to keep them from self adjusting, or at less limit it.

I keep a bottle at the press to mark and wipe case heads for test purposes.

Heck, primer sealer would likely work too. I got that too, but its too spendy to use on lee dies. ;)

[noylj]

I "like" it when they blame the press because the powder measure isn't as consistent as they would like--and, usually, it is a Lee press being blamed not matter what measure is being used.

[country gent]

I would look at the linkage for wear and spring before going to far. Worn links pins and or other parts can also cause inconsistancies. I have used the Lee seaters with the aluminum adjusting stems with good results the plastic stems not so much. I believe its a standard thread so a bolt and lock nut could replace it if you believe that's the problem. Bench top flexing may play a part also. If you have a magnetic base and finger Indicator set it up so at the top of the stroke under pressure it reads on the top of the shell holder or ram ( a stop collar can be set on the ram to give a surface also) and seat some bullets or size some cases and see what the indicator reads under force. Then set it up on the top of the press just outside the lock ring and see if the frame is springing or flexing. Then on top of the die body and last is on top of the seating stem.

[kmw1954]

The seater likely touches the ogive of the bullet when it pushes it into the case. There is going to be variations in the ogive, ogive to tip, tip dimensions etc of the bullet. A few thousandths either way is not going to mean anything.

Looks as there are many that can't grasp this concept.

I've been loading a lot of 3 different types of 9mm Berry's plated bullets as of late. It's not the press, it's not the dies, it's the bullets.

Try pulling the seating stem from the die and then with it out of the die take a handful of bullets and one at a time check them in the stem and see how well the fit. Then if you really want to get anal while doing that also measure the over-all length. I think you'll be surprised.

[bkbville]

Aristotle: "It is the mark of an instructed mind to rest satisfied with the degree of precision to witch the nature of the subject admits, and to seek exactness where only an approximation of the truth is possible"

Verify you aren't collecting lube, especially alox snot, on the mouth of the seater plug. That will definitely cause abnormal variations in base to ogive, and trickle to COAL.

Also - if powder coated - you have the variation in the coating thickness impacting the seating.

But, you may be looking for more exactness than you can even be sure of, or need, especially for pistol

[6bg6ga]

This is the time when I would like to jump in and say well you get what you paid for but I will refrain. Cleanliness is next to Godliness when it comes to reloading. I'll make it simple....keep the dies neat and clean as it effects overall length. Having said that .001-.005 in length is nothing to sweat. When loading 40 cal you want to be sure the bullet is crimped tight enough so you don't get push back.

[psweigle]

Check the oring on the seater stem, if it isn't torn or flat spotted, then lift the stem up and down to see if it flexes. If not, and I suspect it won't, try measuring a hand full of those hornady bullets, I'm sure you will see the problem. I've noticed as of late that their bullets are undersized. The ogive is all over the place. Hope this helped.

[kmw1954]

This is the time when I would like to jump in and say well you get what you paid for but I will refrain. .

Sounds more like you didn't.... refrain!

[NoAngel]

Not like any other press will give any better results when the variance is undoubtedly in the nose shape of the bullet. A flat seating plug on a wide meplat bullet is about the only way to get exact OAL results every time. It's all meaningless anyway. +/- five thousandths or so will never show up on paper unless it's a very accurate rifle. Pistols? No.


Not to sound like a jerk but I have never understood the obsession with having a die return to the exact same spot every time you screw it in. It doesn't take more than 60 seconds to dial it in. I screw the seating plug out a couple turns every time I take a seater out of the press and start over every time. Lee dies are some of the easiest to adjust any way. If I am in that big of a hurry, I shouldn't be reloading any way.

[NoAngel]

This is also good advice. If your OAL starts to get screwy it might just be time to clean your dies.


That is the truth. Some people NEVER clean their dies and wonder why they get shifty results. You'd clean your gun but not your dies? Madness!!

[bedbugbilly]

I don't load 40 but I do load 9mm with a set of Lee dies - I seat and crimp in two operations and all I load is lead. I get a variation in over all length but not enough to worry about. They all fit in the cartridge gauge when I randomly check them as they come off my 4 hole turret and they all chamber and shoot just fine. I can't believe other calibers - i.e. 380, 40, 45 wouldn't be the same.

I use a variety of brands of die sets for what I load - RCBS, Lyman, Herters, CH, etc. as well as Lee. While some seem to have an issue with Lee - the sets I have load just fine. And as far as COAL - I think we all try to load within specs and it's good to be a little "finicky" and not get sloppy . . . but there are times that the COAL is going to be determined by your chamber and then "adjustments" need to be made.

[Char-Gar]

I do not think it is overly picky to expect exact uniformity in the overall length of the cartridge. I expect all of my rounds to be dead nuts on in this regard. The only time inconsistency is a problem with my ammo is when bullet lube builds up in the seating die or the die lock ring is not tight against the press.

I bought my one and only Lee press in 1981 and threw it in the trash when it would not produce 30-06 match ammo with consistent COAL. I know there are legions of Lee fans, but I am not one of them.

Buy RCBS, Lyman, Redding or other make of dies with traditional screw adjustments and lock rings. Put these in a cast iron press with all steel linkage, properly adjust them and these inconsistent OAL problems will go away.

IMHO, when it comes to reloading there is no such thing as "good enough" ammo or "blasting ammo". I am just funny like that.

[opos]

May have missed it but have you shot a run of the ammo with some slight variation using a chrono (anything else is just guessing) to see if you really have a problem or are "tilting at windmills"? I've read some 30 posts in this thread and don't think any of them talk about the end result of all this conversation....how the ammo shoots.....Years ago I went on a perfection kick and I'm not a "precision shooter" and worried myself sick over some slight variations...then I borrowed a chrono and shot some strings...problem solved...I needed to relax.

One more thing..Starline makes great brass but I still "work new brass" when I get it...Starline can vary some like any other mass produced cost effective product..it's no where near perfect and can cause some varitations (usually acceptable...but noticable) in the finished product...

Load a bunch...borrow a chrono...shoot some and let us know the outcome.

[mozeppa]

easiest way to set your mind at ease.....buy a box of the most expensive .40 ammo you can find....match grade if possible.

use a good 1" to 2" micrometer on the whole box.....you'll find 3 to 4 thousandths high to low on them.

more on the cheap stuff.

[mozeppa]

p.s. this is one of the reasons i use only cast boolits with a meplat on it.

all my seat dies (.30 carbine.....380 ....9mm....38....357....40....44....45 acp....45 colt.)

they all have stems in them matched to the end shape of the boolit. (basically flat nose with some ogive.)

or keith style boolits.

[EDG]

Not true. There are operator errors with all brands.


That if it's a Lee tool, it can NEVER be a user produced screw up. It's always the fault of the tool; even when it's not.

If you have green, blue, orange, or the other red, any malfunctions are operator error. Can't be the tool. With Lee, it's always the tools fault.

You'd have to be completely clueless not to notice or understand that fact.

[r1kk1]

I use a flat seating stem for any bullet with a flat nose. I use hot glue or even epoxy to make custom round nose sweaters. With that in mind, I use Dillon dies where I can as both the seat and crimp dies feature a simple clip to hold the innards in the die. Simply pull the clip and the innards fall out the die, and fall into your off hand. Clean, slide the components back into the die and place the clip back in. No readjustments needed. Very simple.

Take care

r1kk1

[EDG]

This same topic came up a few days ago on another forum devoted to benchrest and accuracy shooting.
Those guys all used match grade bullets by Sierra, Berger and Lapua. Yes they have the same questions - why does the OAL vary. The answer is the bullet ogives vary in length.

[No Blue]

Not true. There are operator errors with all brands.

True, but with Lee the first thing most forum peeps will declare is it's the cheap Lee press. No thought given to operator errors, screwed up components like messed up brass, or how the press is installed.

The other presses get that examination of other factors, and ONLY if all other possibilities have been ruled out, then call the mothership in Scottsdale, Oroville, or someplace in Nebraska?

It's almost a daily occurrence around here.

[JSnover]

I learned on one of those cheap Lee presses, still have it on my bench next to the Redding. I learned you can turn out some pretty good ammunition on it. Mine is 20-30 years old (bought used) and it was probably the best single reloading investment I ever made since it was dirt cheap to begin with.

[1hole]

I'm too old and have owned and used many excellent reloading tools from many makers. I have no emotional attachment to any brand.

When I first got a good dial indicator and magnetic base for it I measured a lot of stuff, including press spring in my RC II and two of Lee's very small and low cost "C" presses, their"Reloader", that I use for special work. Making a long story short, I used a matched box of hot once fired LC match .30-06 cases from the same Rem 700 in the same die and shell holder set to move the shoulders back the same. Measuring 6 cases lubed the same, I FL sized a group in each press. I got very close to 3 tho consistent spring on the "Chucker and not enough on either of the little Lee's to measure.

You may understand why I now laff at all the intuitively believed but unmeasured statements about how weak and springy Lee's "cheap pot metal" presses are. My "Reloaders" are NO where near as massively strong overall as the much bigger and more costly cast iron 'Chucker but, within the range of normal sane use, the Lee's are more rigid than cast iron and that's a fact.

If I had to replace my "Chucker" tomorrow I'd get Lee's iron "Classic Cast", it's an equal or better press in every respect.

[No Blue]

1 hole, that probably accounts for green presses need to 'cam over', while Lee all have a stop built into the press linkage.

Lee advertised the aluminum alloy they used was 46,000 psi tensile strength. I looked in my Machinery Handbook for cast iron tensile strength and most were less than 30,000psi.

Cast iron is great for machines with fast moving parts and need the mass of metal to dampen any vibrations. World of difference between a Delta or Powermatic table saw and an aluminum table saw you can carry.

But even Lee had to accept the 'Conventional Wisdom' that cast iron is better to make a press out of. Even if it isn't....LOL

[r1kk1]

1 hole, that probably accounts for green presses need to 'cam over', while Lee all have a stop built into the press linkage.

Lee advertised the aluminum alloy they used was 46,000 psi tensile strength. I looked in my Machinery Handbook for cast iron tensile strength and most were less than 30,000psi.

Cast iron is great for machines with fast moving parts and need the mass of metal to dampen any vibrations. World of difference between a Delta or Powermatic table saw and an aluminum table saw you can carry.

But even Lee had to accept the 'Conventional Wisdom' that cast iron is better to make a press out of. Even if it isn't....LOL

Richard says the Reloader C will full length size 375 H&H Magnum, according to his book, yet I've seen at least three of his little C press snap at the bases over the years on this forum. I spent time with him on the phone in the 80s. Long story short, we don't agree. I have three cast steel presses, one single stage, two turrets. The rest of the single stage presses I own are cast iron. All three progressives I own are aluminum. I don't case form on them. They won't handle it.

Take care

r1kk1

[L Erie Caster]

I have 2 green presses, a Rockchucker Supreme and a Partner, both have tabs on the linkage to prevent a cam over condition. So I don’t understand your statement that they need to cam over.

[noylj]

My little Lee Reloading Press has processed .30-06 without a problem. It would be nice to have a steel/iron/aluminum handle instead of pot metal, but I've used mine for various tasks since some time in the '80s and it is still working just fine—mostly for depriming and bulge busting.
I also read about folks sticking cases in their dies, so, obviously, the dies/presses weren't built right.
If you want to complain about the little Lee press handles breaking in three reports, just look up all the broken Dillon SDB and 550 handles—like I've read about over the years. There are folks who can break a 200# anvil.

[1hole]

Nothing is fool proof for a sufficiently talented fool. I've seen web photos of Rockchuckers with the top strap broken by some clown trying to "cam over" with their dies screwed in too deep; what does that prove?

As I originally said, it would be foolish to assert any light alum alloy press (including the RCBS' Partner) is equal in total strength to a cast iron monster and I'm no fool. What I said is the high strength alum alloy presses are more rigid within their yield strength than cast iron. I challenge anyone who has a sensitive dial indicator and knows how to use it to try it himself and prove me wrong. And I've seen a lot of photos of green Partners with broken bases, all only proving what I said up in the first line.

Case reforming is not a "normal" reloading chore. I've NEVER seen any common reloading manual deal with case reforming. In fact, I doubt if as many as 5% of us will ever reform cases.

I make an assortment of reformed cases from '30-06 and .303, including .22-250 and .44 Mag shotshells, and I do use my RC II for that but I don't think it's a bit better than any other modern iron press, including Lee's Classic Cast.

[1bluehorse]

:hijack: Considering this thread has denigrated to a Lee equipment appraisal, let's throw more fuel on the fire. This is my opinion and is as valid as any other. People buy Lee equipment because it's less expensive (notice I didn't say cheap) than other brands and is probably "good enough" for them. Fine. But it's like telling me your Harbor Freight tools (I have some) are as good as Snap-on (I have some). They will do the same job, but, they're not the same quality. I've not been to one video site looking to find information on "precision" hand loading techniques and found any Lee equipment being used. Any. Not even the vaulted Lee Classic Cast SS press (I have one). That's one sturdy press for sure and it handles all my "extra" work that I don't want to do on my other SS press. I seldom load ammo on it but I'm sure it would do a "good enough" job. Now, honest answer please, if I was to offer you either my Lee Classic Cast press or my Co-Ax press for free (you'd have to keep them, no selling, just to eliminate the money aspect) which would you take and why. Let er' rip....:drinks:

[kmw1954]

Well I already have 2 presses on my bench and there is no more room so I would say Thanks and pass on both. I load on both a Red and a Green and when I put the finished rounds thru the gun I can't tell which press it came off of.

[EDG]

It is also a daily occurrence that some fanboy tries to apologize for Lee when he has little experience with other brands.
Lee makes both good and not so good stuff but many people cannot admit there are some stinkers.
Example
Metals have a property property called the endurance limit.
With steel or cast iron if you stay below that limit the tool can take practically an infinite number of cycles without fatiguing and breaking.
Aluminum does not have that shape of endurance limit so Lee has to put the stop on the handle to try to prevent over stressing the press. With enough cycles sooner or later the aluminum will break. Lee does not understand this material property. He will keep having this problem until he gets a professional mechanical engineer to design the highly stressed components out of something besides A356 die cast aluminum.


190497


190498

Mostly I blame Lee for not understanding the need to test his products especially the presses so they reach a satisfactory number of cycles in a life span.
During the design of a new product he should be able to test it to insure a reasonable life before marketing it to the public. That could be done with a test fixture that exercises the press with a hydraulic cylinder for 10,000 or 100,000 cycles - what ever he wants to warrant the press for.


True, but with Lee the first thing most forum peeps will declare is it's the cheap Lee press. No thought given to operator errors, screwed up components like messed up brass, or how the press is installed.

The other presses get that examination of other factors, and ONLY if all other possibilities have been ruled out, then call the mothership in Scottsdale, Oroville, or someplace in Nebraska?

It's almost a daily occurrence around here.

[dragon813gt]

Now, honest answer please, if I was to offer you either my Lee Classic Cast press or my Co-Ax press for free (you'd have to keep them, no selling, just to eliminate the money aspect) which would you take and why. Let er' rip....:drinks:

The Lee. I had a CoAx and sent it down the road. The ergonomics on it absolutely suck for me. I'm one of the people that can afford to buy any press I wanted. I own a bunch of them. The Lee classic cast presses are the ones I use the most.

[jetinteriorguy]

Since you can buy 3 Lee classic cast presses for about the same as one Forster Coax, I'd take the Lee and use the money I save to buy more equipment or more loading components.

[ghh3rd]

Didn't read all of the above, but adding a possibility -- lube buildup in your seating die. Sorry it's already been mentioned...

[Idaho45guy]

Didn't read all of the above, but adding a possibility -- lube buildup in your seating die. Sorry it's already been mentioned...

I think that was actually the problem... Ran some rounds with XTP boolits and no issues. Ran some 180gr cast boolits with Alox and started having consistency issues again.

But at least I was able to start a very heated thread over the issue... :kidding:

[54bore]

Never been a fan of Lee Stuff, i own a few Lee things, but not much. Its RCBS, or Redding for me. (For the most part, you get what you pay for) I have a few Lee push through Sizer Dies, a shell holder or 2, and their little yellow plastic dipper spoons, i had their little hand held priming tool years ago, i used it til i wore it out. I have never seen a Lee product that didn't work? but there are nicer/better quality tools for the job. In my opinion Lee is bottom of the barrel, Harbor freight of Reloading/Casting tools.

[1bluehorse]

The Lee. I had a CoAx and sent it down the road. The ergonomics on it absolutely suck for me. I'm one of the people that can afford to buy any press I wanted. I own a bunch of them. The Lee classic cast presses are the ones I use the most.

I'm one of "the" people also. Agree that there are some thing's the Co Ax doesn't lend itself to well, hence the Classic Cast press. But IMO (and many others) believe the Co-Ax is the best of the best of single stage presses.

To the OP, lube buildup (good that you found your problem) in seating dies is a very common occurrence/problem when using cast bullets, (especially if using a "tumble lube") also the seating stem sometimes just doesn't fit the bullet we're using. There are some really good ideas around on how to "fix" the stems to fit. We've probably all had these same issues.

As to the "lively" debate, I always enjoy them (poking the lion so to speak) , and sometimes even something of value comes from them :-). Not often though....:bootgive:

[JSnover]

I think that was actually the problem... Ran some rounds with XTP boolits and no issues. Ran some 180gr cast boolits with Alox and started having consistency issues again.

But at least I was able to start a very heated thread over the issue... :kidding:
Since it's a lube problem and not a mechanical issue, try what I did: Remove the adjusting screw, chuck it up in a lathe (or a drill press) and put a hole though it. This will let the lube flow thru the nose punch (assuming your punch is already hollow) and out the top. Then you'll know when your die needs cleaning but your OAL won't be all over the place.

Edit [faulty memory strikes again] Drilled the screws and the nose punches. Again, very easy with a lathe, not difficult with a drill press.

[No Blue]

Since you can buy 3 Lee classic cast presses for about the same as one Forster Coax, I'd take the Lee and use the money I save to buy more equipment or more loading components.

Wrong answer; it's ALWAYS buy once, cry once, you get what you pay for, and all the other platitudes the clowns with more money than sense spout...the ideal item to buy is the best value. Not the cheapest or most expensive; the best for the money. That's gonna work for 95% of the peeps....so on second thought, yours is the correct answer!

[1bluehorse]

ReDo....

[1bluehorse]

As usual in these "discussions" we must insult those who do not agree that Lee equipment is "not to cold, not to hot, but just right" and is the "best value" to buy. Some of us may not agree with that as it depends upon what one may consider "value". I do believe we pretty much will all agree it's about the cheapest equipment to buy though.

And I am not a "clown" with no sense, I'm an old "cowboy",... with no sense.... and definitely WITHOUT enough money...;)

[kmw1954]

Red, Green, Blue or Orange. Makes no difference to me what anyone decides to purchase. Also, single stage, turret, progressive or motorized progressive makes no difference to me. You can all argue merits till the cows fall dead.

I'm not brand loyal to any product. I buy what I can afford and what suites me and only me. If anyone doesn't like what I'm buying or using that's just too bad. Don't care, you don't have to use my stuff I do. Is some stuff better than others? Yes I won't argue that point on anything. Do I always need the top of the line, most expensive product? NO.

If someone came to me and told me they wanted to get started in hand loading would I tell them they needed to go out and spend $500.00 on all new reloading tools? No.. I'd tell them to get on the auction sites and start buying good used equipment for as little as they can. Why? Because many new hand loaders give up the practice in a relatively short time for many reasons. Some just because they don't find it as "Cool" as they thought it would be or it's just "too much work".

[1bluehorse]

Red, Green, Blue or Orange. Makes no difference to me what anyone decides to purchase. Also, single stage, turret, progressive or motorized progressive makes no difference to me. You can all argue merits till the cows fall dead.

I'm not brand loyal to any product. I buy what I can afford and what suites me and only me. If anyone doesn't like what I'm buying or using that's just too bad. Don't care, you don't have to use my stuff I do. Is some stuff better than others? Yes I won't argue that point on anything. Do I always need the top of the line, most expensive product? NO.

If someone came to me and told me they wanted to get started in hand loading would I tell them they needed to go out and spend $500.00 on all new reloading tools? No.. I'd tell them to get on the auction sites and start buying good used equipment for as little as they can. Why? Because many new hand loaders give up the practice in a relatively short time for many reasons. Some just because they don't find it as "Cool" as they thought it would be or it's just "too much work".


Truthfully, I agree with you completely. I actually own quite a bit of Lee stuff, including a couple presses. And I have to admit, I was just "trolling" to goad the tiger..:oops: Not a good thing to do I know, but sometimes it's just fun...[smilie=p:

[kmw1954]

Truthfully, I agree with you completely. I actually own quite a bit of Lee stuff, including a couple presses. And I have to admit, I was just "trolling" to goad the tiger..:oops: Not a good thing to do I know, but sometimes it's just fun...[smilie=p:

I could tell! :p Some folks just get so worked up with the my stuff is better than your stuff that at times it gets old. Really. I don't care what anyone else uses as long as they are using it safely and not trying to do something with a tool that it was never meant to do. For me the whole purpose to hand loading is to enjoy myself and relax.

[JSnover]

It disappoints me in a community like this, to have someone say, "what's going on with my Lee?" only to get an answer that sounds like' "Yer problem is ya bought junk!"
My ancient Lee single-stage 3-holer turns out ammunition for my M700 30-06 that shoots sub-MOA groups with boring regularity: Average 3/4", personal best: 3/8"@100 yards. From a rest. Imagine how small those groups might be if I knew how to shoot.
I love my Redding but I see no reason to scrap my Lee.

[mac60]

It is also a daily occurrence that some fanboy tries to apologize for Lee when he has little experience with other brands.
Lee makes both good and not so good stuff but many people cannot admit there are some stinkers.
Example
Metals have a property property called the endurance limit.
With steel or cast iron if you stay below that limit the tool can take practically an infinite number of cycles without fatiguing and breaking.
Aluminum does not have that shape of endurance limit so Lee has to put the stop on the handle to try to prevent over stressing the press. With enough cycles sooner or later the aluminum will break. Lee does not understand this material property. He will keep having this problem until he gets a professional mechanical engineer to design the highly stressed components out of something besides A356 die cast aluminum.


190497


190498

Mostly I blame Lee for not understanding the need to test his products especially the presses so they reach a satisfactory number of cycles in a life span.
During the design of a new product he should be able to test it to insure a reasonable life before marketing it to the public. That could be done with a test fixture that exercises the press with a hydraulic cylinder for 10,000 or 100,000 cycles - what ever he wants to warrant the press for.

What can you tell us about the picture of the press? Is that your press or is it a picture you found on the internet?

[1bluehorse]

It disappoints me in a community like this, to have someone say, "what's going on with my Lee?" only to get an answer that sounds like' "Yer problem is ya bought junk!"
My ancient Lee single-stage 3-holer turns out ammunition for my M700 30-06 that shoots sub-MOA groups with boring regularity: Average 3/4", personal best: 3/8"@100 yards. From a rest. Imagine how small those groups might be if I knew how to shoot.
I love my Redding but I see no reason to scrap my Lee.


What is a Lee single stage 3 holer..? Never seen one. I know you're not talking about the old three hole turret press (had one) I didn't think it would handle an 06' round. If it is the 3 hole turret please tell me the secret to your success. I do all the brass prep, turn necks, primer pockets, flash holes, check run out (nothing more than 2 thou allowed) loaded with Forster BR dies on a co-ax and can't make a 3/8in group at 100. That is very good shooting. Guess I just can't shoot very well.

[JSnover]

What is a Lee single stage 3 holer..? Never seen one. I know you're not talking about the old three hole turret press (had one) I didn't think it would handle an 06' round. If it is the 3 hole turret please tell me the secret to your success. I do all the brass prep, turn necks, primer pockets, flash holes, check run out (nothing more than 2 thou allowed) loaded with Forster BR dies on a co-ax and can't make a 3/8in group at 100. That is very good shooting. Guess I just can't shoot very well.
It is the three-hole turret press and with longer bullets I do have feed the nose into the seating die before slipping the cartridge base into the shell holder, so yeah, it's a little short for the '06.
I don't think I'm doing anything special. Neck-sizing only, once the cases have been fired in my chamber. I also seat and crimp separately, segregate brass, weigh every charge, seat the bullets .003"-.005" off the rifling, all that normal stuff.
For the record: The previous owner had the rifle bedded and floated into a late '80s Bell & Carlson stock (some sort of gun shop package deal if I recall) and I replaced the Weaver scope (Ocular lens had been cracked somehow) with a Leupold 3x9. It doesn't look like any work was done to the action or the bore, other than me scrubbing some copper out after I bought it.
Also, the groups fired from an Outers Varminter rest, not prone and definitely not offhand (not even in my wildest dreams).

[ulav8r]

It's good when newbies buy good equipment. That's how I got a Reloader Special press, Uniflow Measure, 505 0r 510 scale, 3 sets of dies and a Lee hand primer for $50 about 4 years ago.

[noylj]

Just going by the title of the post, unless the press is made of rubber, the PRESS is not the determinate of COL--that goes to how you measure it and whether the bullet has a consistent ogive and meplat. Some have postulated, without doing any testing, that the O-ring that keeps the die locked on Lee dies could have some flex that could effect COL. Well, by the time the die threads are compressed to the press threats, I doubt the the o-ring has any effect any more (and, that would the lock ring and not the press).
Now, a really weak C-press that has flex could have an effect on COL, but, even then, the effect would seem to be same from round to round-same force, same flex.
So, if you have some real COL problem, look to the bullets and, for progressive presses, look for shell plate flex (I always tighten the shell plate until it won't move and then just loosen it until it moves smoothly--though not easily).
However, if you really think that you can control COL to less than 0.010" spread, you just haven't been measuring COL for very long or you have some method that should be published.
So, the OP should answer the following:
1) what is bullet length average and S.D.?
2) taking factory ammo, what is COL average and S.D.?
3) compare to your reload COL average and S.D.
I find that most of my COL variation is due to (1) and is the same or less than (2).

[JSnover]

Assuming the equipment is clean enough and tight enough to rule out mechanical causes and that operator error isn't the problem, I'd look at ogive consistency (somebody else already brought this up). Shouldn't be hard to do with a bullet comparator or something like it. I have a dozen die sets and only two of them have punches that would actually contact the tip of the nose. All of the others ride a little ways down the side.

[JSnover]

Shouldn't be hard to do with a bullet comparator or something like it. I have a dozen die sets and only two of them have punches that would actually contact the tip of the nose.
So I got out my trusty caliper and measured a handful of "Match Monster" bullets (190 grain .308 FMJBT made by Nosler) from Midsouth. Overall lengths varied by +/- .012" That surprised me but it won't have anything to do with your COAL. Then I measured bullets (not cartridges) using the comparator and found the distance from the base to the ogive varies by +/- .001" Much better and a lot more relevant.

[JSnover]

I don't mean to maul this thread but I decided to measure a coulpe of other .30cal jacketed bullets:
SMK 168gr OAL +/- .006" Base to ogive +/-.003"
Hornady Interlock 220gr. RN OAL +/- .0025" Base to ogive +/- .0025"
The Hornady is a soft point hunting bullet so I expected it to be the least consistent but the ones I measured held a tighter tolerance than the so-called match bullets.
If your punch has a flat nose or a large radius you might get a more consistent COAL because the bullet type/style won't matter. If your punch has a long taper to guide the bullet and never touch the tip your COAL can vary quite a bit but the good news is you'll probably have a more consistent length relative to your throat.

I did not measure any cast boolits since alloy, casting conditions, and users are too variable.

[jban]

I would replace the original lock ring. As others have stated that the o ring is the problem. I like Lee dies, but I always replace their lock ring with a different companies lock ring. Once that is done you have metal again metal when you tighten down the dies. Then it comes to being consistent with you leverage pressure when you crank down on the handle.
Good luck

[robg]

I've replaced other lock rings with Lee lock rings ,we're all contrary creatures��

[kmw1954]

Is this happening at high tide or low tide? Or maybe it's just the position you're standing at while at the bench.

[bob33809]

You can bash Lee all you want, I personally used a Lee turret press. Loaded over 12000 rounds, from.380 to .308. Had no problem. I personally love Lee products for casting and reloading, why spend more for the same results. Just like a friend of mine shot his Hi Point 9mm over 10000 rounds with less than 3 failures to fire. Everyone has good and bad experiences.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[jcwit]

Some here on this thread I'm sure must drive a Rolls Royce as their daily driver!

[EMC45]

I have drilled and tapped my Lee rings (after removing the rubber o ring) and screwed a grub screw into it and use like RCBS rings. Cost a few cents per ring, but they lock down the right way now.

[1bluehorse]

Some here on this thread I'm sure must drive a Rolls Royce as their daily driver!



Actually I drive a 15 year old Dodge diesel pickup. Not even a 1 ton, just a measly 3/4. But I do use a Forster Co-Ax press for rifle loading and I have an RCBS Pro 2000 for progressive reloading. Between what the two of them cost it wouldn't pay for a set of tires for said truck. You'd have to throw in a Dillon 550B to make the difference. The tires will last about 40,000mi, for me that's probably around 5 years. The presses will last for decades. So what's your point ? IMO the couple hundred "extra" bucks for the "better" quality doesn't mean much in the long term...I also like good cigars, Crown Royal or Bulleit Bourbon in lieu of Black Velvet, and I don't buy "cheap" beer. Cheap is cheap. If some folks are good with that it's fine with me, but as far as I know I'm only gonna get one go round' here so I'm going to enjoy things as best I can. [smilie=2: Of course YMMV...as we all do things our own way.

[kmw1954]

boy this thread has really deteriorated. what's next?

[1bluehorse]

boy this thread has really deteriorated. what's next?



You're absolutely correct and I apologize to all for my bad manners.

[noylj]

At the big car auction in Phoenix a month or two ago, there was a very nice Rolls Royce that looked perfect that went for only $15000. If I had bought it, it WOULD be my daily drive.