Gas check making

[tankgunner59]

What is the minimum equipment and cost to start making gas checks?

[Soundguy]

One of the many types of whackamole style punch and mandrel tools, plus the material.

Look at freechecks, etc.

[kmrra]

http://www.freechex.net/

[dragon813gt]

Charlie just made some tools but he's effectively not making them anymore. I was surprised to hear he made some.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

one of patmarlins' dies ($84) and your reloading press.

http://www.patmarlins.com/product-category/checkmaker/

[smoked turkey]

I have found Patmarlins CheckMaker to be a superb tool. His checks stay on my boolits and they are nice. I am still trying to find the soft aluminum needed for the CheckMaker to really do its job. It is a little slower way to make checks, but I enjoy the process and I am not trying to make a years worth in 30 minutes so it is right down my alley.

[iMigraine]

In the same boat, trying to decide between CheckMaker & FreeChex III. FCIII looks fast but then you do have to buy an arbor press. CM looks slower but works in your reloading press. Kinda leaning towards CM since I'm not a high volume shooter. Just wondering if the CM is harder to center the punch out discs in the die when you cup them?

[dragon813gt]

Do you want to handle small flat discs of metal? This should be your deciding factor. W/ a Freechex it's a one step process. Insert metal in tool and out comes a finished check. W/ the checkmaker you punch out a disc. And then cup it in a separate step. Handling small finished 22 cal checks is enough aggravation. I can't imagine handling the discs. W/ larger calibers this isn't as big of a deal. They both produce checks that work which is what matters.

[smoked turkey]

I have the CM. The aluminum I currently have is too hard for my .50 cal CM die in my Rock Chucker press. I am using it but it is hard to cut the disc. Even with the hard aluminum, the check forming operation is a piece of cake with the CM tool. the check fits my Accurate 51-520GG cast perfectly. The check is secure on the shank and is flat on the bottom. Reason is Pat worked with me to make a good fitting check on my boolits. He did a nice job on it. I am not a high volume shooter either. I don't have room on my bench for an arbor press. I wanted to use my RC press, and I don't mind the extra time to do the second step in the process. I will say that handling a small disc for a 22 caliber would be very tedious as compared to my bigger .50 caliber. If you have rifle like my .505 Gibbs which takes a non standard check size, then I highly recommend both Tom at Accurate for the mold and Pat at Patmarlins for the check maker. You just need to use "soft" aluminum for the process.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Another recommendation for Pat Marlin's check making dies. I have one of his 35cal plain base gas check makers. Beautifully made and ingenious little tool. The ability to add a check to a plain base style boolit really opens up your options and mold versatility.

Currently I am making checks from soda cans, but am learning that not all aluminum cans are equal. Some brands like Red Bull seem thick and malleable while others like generic sodas seem brittle and tear easily.


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[iMigraine]

Well I don't have any intentions on making gas checks for .22 caliber. Decided last night to order Pat's CM for 7.62x39 for my Russian SKS. Looking to reload for Marlin 336 30-30 as well. My hope is that the 7.62x39 CM might work for both calibers; if not, I'll be ordering another CM for .30 cal once I figure it all out.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

A 30cal CM should work for both calibers. After all a 7.62 is a 30cal. I might just let Mr. Marlin know you intend to use it in both 30-30 and 7.62x39.


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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

In the same boat, trying to decide between CheckMaker & FreeChex III. FCIII looks fast but then you do have to buy an arbor press. CM looks slower but works in your reloading press. Kinda leaning towards CM since I'm not a high volume shooter. Just wondering if the CM is harder to center the punch out discs in the die when you cup them?
I've owned 4 of the patmarlins CheckMakers, I think they are an excellent design and they are beautifully machined. The way the tool is designed, The disc fits tightly into the cup forming die, and once "seated", it can't move. But with that said, when you drop/place the disc, if it goes sideways/diagonal and you form it, the GC will be very offset/lop-sided and is junk. If you watch the GC as it's placed, and when it goes sideways/diagonal, just "tap" the cup forming die with your finger, and the vibrations will usually move the disc, so it is "seated". Btw the way, the cup forming die is mounted in the ram (like a shell holder). This becomes second nature, and only needs to be mentioned to someone who have never used or seen the die...Much like FL sizing brass cases, it you don't fully insert a brass case into the shell holder, it'll likely get crushed..It's that obvious.

[Loudy13]

I bought the FCIII mostly due to not wanting to tie up a press when I wanted to make gaschecks, so with 113.00 for the FCIII and an arbor press that was given to me for Christmas it was relatively cheap to get started making checks. Made 2000 .30 cal checks so far and it works great.

[Dan Cash]

You fellows having problems with hard aluminum need to anneal the stuff. Heat it a little with a torc, gas burner or even an electric plate. Tain't rocket science.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

You fellows having problems with hard aluminum need to anneal the stuff. Heat it a little with a torc, gas burner or even an electric plate. Tain't rocket science.

Is there a color you go for? Is the temperature the same as brass? I'll have to try this.


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[Dragonheart]

Is there a color you go for? Is the temperature the same as brass? I'll have to try this.


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I wipe a thin coat of liquid hand soap on the metal and heat the aluminum with a propane torch until the soap turns a uniform black.

As far as making Gas Checks I don't think you can beat the Freechex tools, especially when you consider it's a one punch operation. The minimum investment is a tool and and arbor press. If you want to see the Freechex IV in operation check out this video: https://youtu.be/R5sIuzphTEk

[Retumbo]

I sold my pat marlin's and made myself a copy of the free chex. As for annealing, I throw a handful at a time in my lead pot. Couple minutes later I scoop them out. Get the odd one with some lead on it but most are lead free. My .30 gas checks work on all my Lee 30 caliber cast bullets189308

[smoked turkey]

I need a little more information than I have regarding how to successfully anneal the aluminum strips I have. A few days ago I used the search function here that took me to a thread that said to make a line down the center of an aluminum strip using a permanent black "sharpie" marker. Then use a propane torch on the strip until the black line disappears. It didn't work for me as the aluminum was still hard after the heat. Dan, I would appreciate it if you could let me know your method of annealing as I have a fair amount of .014 aluminum that needs softened a bit before I can use it. I did see the tip in post # 17 using liquid soap. I will give that a try also. Thanks for any help.

[GrayTech]

Have you tried rolling up a strip and putting it in the molten lead for a while?

[smoked turkey]

GrayTech thanks for the suggestion of placing the aluminum strips into my melted lead at a future casting session. I have seen threads here that anneal the finished gas checks by putting them into a steel pipe nipple with caps on each end. If I understand the technique it should also work with aluminum strips. Probably not too efficient since limited to the amount of aluminum strips in the pipe. I feel pretty dumb even asking this question, but I wonder if the temperature were kept below the melting point of aluminum if it would work to put the aluminum roll directly into the melted lead? Has anyone tried this ? Thanks again for the thought.

[Walter Laich]

I've used soda cans but now get my foil from http://www.coilandfoil.com/

for some reason the preparing of the soda can is not 'fun' for me so I am happy to buy the rolls and go from there

[grullaguy]

You fellows having problems with hard aluminum need to anneal the stuff. Heat it a little with a torc, gas burner or even an electric plate. Tain't rocket science.

After I cut my strips, I keep them in a peanut butter jar. When I do some casting, I pass a handful, one at a time under the surface of the lead. I wipe any residual lead off with my insulated glove and set them aside. When I clean up after casting, I rub the strips one final time through a folded over, oily rag. This ensures they will go through the cutting punch with ease.
The annealed strips are then placed in another peanut butter jar, labelled as such.

[jdfoxinc]

I just put a 7/8x18 bolt in the top of my hollywood press and use it like an arbor press. I need to make a bottom holder like has been posted so I don't have to pour out the checks in the bottom.

[smoked turkey]

grullaguy thanks for your informative post on annealing the aluminum strips. I was wanting to check with you regarding the time in the melt for annealing. I tried the process this afternoon and placed the aluminum in the lead for a 15 count. It seemed to be somewhat softer but not significantly. About how long would you suggest the strips stay in the lead to get maximum annealing? Thanks a lot for your help.
Stan

[grullaguy]

grullaguy thanks for your informative post on annealing the aluminum strips. I was wanting to check with you regarding the time in the melt for annealing. I tried the process this afternoon and placed the aluminum in the lead for a 15 count. It seemed to be somewhat softer but not significantly. About how long would you suggest the strips stay in the lead to get maximum annealing? Thanks a lot for your help.
Stan

With the aluminum that I have, a 15 count is just about perfect. I do notice harder spots on the ends though, due to having to feed in one end and then the other. The center of the strip gets double dipped and seems softer. I think you will find your own method with some more experimentation. I notice that the strips sound different after annealing when dropped on a hard surface. Good luck!

[deputypaul1]

Im just getting started in casting my own 9mm luger and i plan on powder coating the bullet do i have to still install a gas check? If so were can i buy a gas check maker

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[Dragonheart]

Im just getting started in casting my own 9mm luger and i plan on powder coating the bullet do i have to still install a gas check? If so were can i buy a gas check maker

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I have been powder coating 9mm for years, so I would save the money and use a non GC mold. If you have a GC mold and do not use gas checks then it is going to effect accuracy. As far as velocity I have fired PC rifle bullets at 3500 fps with no leading so at 9mm velocities you don't have anything to worry about, assuming you have done a proper job in coating the bullets.

[Soundguy]

Im just getting started in casting my own 9mm luger and i plan on powder coating the bullet do i have to still install a gas check? If so were can i buy a gas check maker

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If your mold is not a GC mold, you won't be able to use them. Also, unless you will be shooting many, many GC in that caliber.. it may be cheaper to buy pre made ones, then make your own.

[jdfoxinc]

Just get a 7/8-18 bolt screw it into the head of your single stage press. Get more fancy and make one of the shell holder FCIII holders. No arbor press needed.

[Soundguy]

Just get a 7/8-18 bolt screw it into the head of your single stage press.

He COULD maybee do that.. but it will ruin his press.

If going that direction.. I'd suggest 7/8-14 bolt.. otherwise he'll need a thread repair tap. ;)

[dragon813gt]

Im just getting started in casting my own 9mm luger and i plan on powder coating the bullet do i have to still install a gas check? If so were can i buy a gas check maker

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Doubt you will need them for 9mm. There might be some Freechex available on GunBroker. Otherwise your only other option to buy one is from Pat Marlin. Lots of specs out there to make your own if you wanted to.

[deputypaul1]

Thank you

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[jmort]

The SAAMI (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI) pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum is set at 241.32 MPa (35,001 psi) piezo pressure.[21] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum#cite_note-21)
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum +P (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpressure_ammunition#Commercially_available_.2B P_cartridges) is set at 265.45 MPa (38,500 psi) piezo pressure.
At these pressure levels you can get by naked, but I like a gas check on all my 9mm Luger ammunition
Personal preference

[Dragonheart]

Doubt you will need them for 9mm. There might be some Freechex available on GunBroker. Otherwise your only other option to buy one is from Pat Marlin. Lots of specs out there to make your own if you wanted to.

I would suggest you call Charlie and see if he has some in stock.

[1_Ogre]

From my understanding, Charlie is trying to sell his business and basically is not selling his FreeChex anymore, he wants to get out of the business but stay on as a consultant

[Springfield0612]

From my understanding, Charlie is trying to sell his business and basically is not selling his FreeChex anymore, he wants to get out of the business but stay on as a consultant
I bought one this week from him for .30 cal


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[Dragonheart]

From my understanding, Charlie is trying to sell his business and basically is not selling his FreeChex anymore, he wants to get out of the business but stay on as a consultant

Charlie has been laid up from hip surgery since he took a bad fall, so I doubt he will be very active in the shop for a while. But if you have a need give him a call as he may have something in stock. Somehow he seems to make it happen.

[Sagebrush7]

Charlie has some dies ready to finish processing. Soon as he gets on his feet he will get them ready. He had a few available send him a PM.

[Vern Humphrey]

Two tips for using the checkmaker.

1. When making disks, cup your hand over the checkmaker. Those disks will FLY, and they fiy right into the Geezer Zone (too close for your main lens, and too far for your biforcal lens.)

2. Use a stiff piece of nylon string (from a string trimmer) to be sure the disks are bottomed out in the forming die.

[Springfield0612]

Got my Freechex 3 .30 cal on saturday opened it on Sunday. Ran out and bought a guillotine paper cutter for $5(used) and a roll of .010 aluminum flashing. I cranked out 300ish in no time. Had to make a wood "adapter" for my drill press but she's smooth now!

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[bpatterson84]

I have a concern about these aluminum checks. Aluminum oxidizes and forms aluminum oxide, which is extremely hard and abrasive. It's actually used in higher grades of fine sandpapers. Is there a source of copper sheeting or flashing that can be used successfully?

[Tom W.]

How long would it take for the checks to oxidize? And wouldn't there be a film of lube on the check after it has been sized? Sometimes I think people overthink these things. I have a FC II and found that folded over Pepsi cans make great checks. I bought the .45 cal check maker and forgot to tell Charlie that it was for a revolver. He sent me a smaller mandrel, no charge. As I like to experiment, I tried the checks on my .44 boolits. They worked just fine.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have a concern about these aluminum checks. Aluminum oxidizes and forms aluminum oxide, which is extremely hard and abrasive. It's actually used in higher grades of fine sandpapers. Is there a source of copper sheeting or flashing that can be used successfully?
Yes there are many sources for copper, in fact I just gave some away in a PIF.
But Aluminum isn't a concern, There have been many discussions here about this, a "advanced" search will turn them up, and will have detailed explanations why oxides are not a concern.

[Sagebrush7]

I would get some .014 to make 30 caliber gas checks.




Got my Freechex 3 .30 cal on saturday opened it on Sunday. Ran out and bought a guillotine paper cutter for $5(used) and a roll of .010 aluminum flashing. I cranked out 300ish in no time. Had to make a wood "adapter" for my drill press but she's smooth now!

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[Dragonheart]

Yes there are many sources for copper, in fact I just gave some away in a PIF.
But Aluminum isn't a concern, There have been many discussions here about this, a "advanced" search will turn them up, and will have detailed explanations why oxides are not a concern.

Agreed. And if it's powder coated or even lubed it wouldn't be an issue anyway.

[Springfield0612]

I would get some .014 to make 30 caliber gas checks.
I got the sample pack from vulcan checks and anytjing over .0135 smears aluminum inside my sizing die. Once payday comes Im gonna order some .013 flasing.

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[jimb16]

I use a paper cutter to make my copper, aluminum or brass strips. I set up my burnsomatic torch to anneal them. I hold one end with pliers and pass them through the flame slowly til it changes color. as I get near the end, I grab the front end with another set of pliers and drag the other end through the flame. It doesn't take long at all. You can anneal a lot of strips in a very short time.

[Dragonheart]

I just wipe down a large cut piece of flashing with soap and put a torch to the whole thing. When the soap turns black it's done. Since the metal is now softer cutting the strips is easier.

[AOM]

Good afternoon New member here. We used to anneal T6 aluminum be using an Oxy/Acetylene torch. First thing we would do is ignite the torch without the Oxy, deposit the soot onto the aluminum, add the Oxy to the torch then heat the aluminum up until the soot was burned off. That would return the aluminum to "O" condition. Aluminum is tough, there is no indication of it getting to hot, it just melts. As for the information here, Good Lord I am glad to finally find a place like this. I was bequeathed my Grandfathers Winchester in .32WS. As finding box ammo nowadays is near impossible, the only solution is to make your own. Now, if I can find some primers......

[Soundguy]

Primers? I remember those. You used to be able to walk in gun shops and get those, or order in bulk online.
Man.. Those were the days. :(

[Dragonheart]

Primers? I remember those. You used to be able to walk in gun shops and get those, or order in bulk online.
Man.. Those were the days. :(

If you wanted to take ammunition out of the hands of the "People" wouldn't this one component pretty well do it?

[Soundguy]

Yup... Powder can be made..albiet harder.. Primers... Much much harder.

[lksmith]

I have found Patmarlins CheckMaker to be a superb tool. His checks stay on my boolits and they are nice. I am still trying to find the soft aluminum needed for the CheckMaker to really do its job. It is a little slower way to make checks, but I enjoy the process and I am not trying to make a years worth in 30 minutes so it is right down my alley.


Pat makes a good tool(I have some), but it is a hassle being a 2-step process, those little discs are a PITA to handle. Check out Matteson's little machine shop, he has a FB page. Make a nice one step tool, and Price isn't bad. I think ~$80 including shipping. I much prefer Dave's version personally

https://www.facebook.com/Daves-Mini-Machine-Shop-115005990253152/

[Dragonheart]

If you properly Powder Coat you don't need gas checks any more than you need to gas check a copper jacketed bullet. However, if you have gas check molds accuracy should improve with a properly installed gas check since it would create a flat & perpendicular base covering the bullet's base imperfections. if the the gas check is not properly installed the whole point is moot.