Homemade Tumbler Question

[TWC941]

Hello All,
Greetings from the communist state of California.

I have searched the forums already for an answer to this question but cant seem to find a solid answer. hopefully you all can help me out.

I am in the process of building a homemade tumbler and just ordered a washing machine motor off of ebay to power the thing. Ill post a link to it:http://www.ebay.com/itm/262857670646

This motor is rated around 17000 RPMs so I know I have to use some sort of pulley system in order to slow it down to a reasonable speed.

My question is... How do I go about doing this? I know virtually nothing about motors or electricity, but do have a decent amount of common sense haha. Any help of pointers would be greatly appreciated. If it helps, the diameter of the actual tumbler tube is 6 inches.

Thank you all in advance.

Regards,
Thomas

[Kenstone]

You don't mention whether it's a rotary/wet or vibratory/dry, but the motor is way too big for the usual size of either.
Here's vids of a few DIY brass tumblers:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=diy%20brass%20tumbler&qs=n&form=QBVRMH&pq=diy%20brass%20tumbler&sc=3-17&sp=-1&sk=
:mrgreen:

[wv109323]

I don't think that is a motor you want, First it is three phase motor which is not what is in residential homes. Next most 120V motors are 1750 or 3400 RPMs. That one says 17500 RPMs which is really cranking.
But to answer your question, If you are using v-belts, it is a ratio of pulley diameters. So a 2" pulley driving a 4" pulley would divide the RPM by 1/2 or 8750. If a 2" pulley is driving a 6" pulley them RPM is 1/3 or 5833 RPM. If you are going to put the drum directly on a roller it is still a ratio of diameters. A 1" shaft driving a 8" drum the rpm would be 1/8 of the shaft RPM.

[TWC941]

You don't mention whether it's a rotary/wet or vibratory/dry, but the motor is way too big for the usual size of either.
Here's vids of a few DIY brass tumblers:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=diy%20brass%20tumbler&qs=n&form=QBVRMH&pq=diy%20brass%20tumbler&sc=3-17&sp=-1&sk=
:mrgreen:
Its going to be a rotary / wet tumbler. Also, I already ordered it. So looks like I'm going to have to rig something to work it out.

[TWC941]

already ordered it.... any suggestions on actually making it work out or am I better off just paying the return shipping and getting a different one?

[country gent]

You can use multiple pulleys to slow it down pulley on motor to a set of step pulleys in a bracket on bearings then to the shaft. Another trick is find the gear box from a hose hold appliance and use it for reduction. I would make the multiple pulley set up if more reduction is needed. A couple pieces of flat stock with spacers and bolted together with a step pulley on each end. Youll have reduction from motor to first pulley reduction from pulley to pulley in the block and reduction from block to shaft and finally reduction from shaft to drum

[6bg6ga]

Its not a three phase motor. Its 120 volt single phase common washer motor meant for the common home.

I sincerely doubt its 17000 RPM despite the tag . I have the same motor in a box in the garage that I have in the past checked with a tachometer.

I would not however use it simply because of its mount. Just go to the nearest washing machine dealer and purchase one for $5.00 It will have a usable motor mount.

[Kenstone]

already ordered it.... any suggestions on actually making it work out or am I better off just paying the return shipping and getting a different one?
You could rig up a bunch of jack shafts to get the rpm down, but open belts running that fast would be an accident waiting to happen.
I'd take the hit and return that motor.

Did you learn anything about building a tumbler from the vids I linked to ??

Here's a link to the castboolits DIY tumbler thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?144547-Home-Made-Tumbler-Plans-with-Pulley-Size-and-Drum-explained
:mrgreen:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hello All,
Greetings from the communist state of California.

I have searched the forums already for an answer to this question but cant seem to find a solid answer. hopefully you all can help me out.

My question is... How do I go about doing this? I know virtually nothing about motors or electricity, but do have a decent amount of common sense haha. Any help of pointers would be greatly appreciated. If it helps, the diameter of the actual tumbler tube is 6 inches.

Thank you all in advance.

Regards,
Thomas

Thomas: the best advice I can give you is send the motor back and get your money back, and just buy a Thumler's Rotary Tumbler.

http://www.therockshed.com/tumbler3.html You can probably find one cheaper if you shop around but this is a good source.

Randy

[rogerreloader]

Hello All,
Greetings from the communist state of California.

I have searched the forums already for an answer to this question but cant seem to find a solid answer. hopefully you all can help me out.

I am in the process of building a homemade tumbler and just ordered a washing machine motor off of ebay to power the thing. Ill post a link to it:http://www.ebay.com/itm/262857670646

This motor is rated around 17000 RPMs so I know I have to use some sort of pulley system in order to slow it down to a reasonable speed.

My question is... How do I go about doing this? I know virtually nothing about motors or electricity, but do have a decent amount of common sense haha. Any help of pointers would be greatly appreciated. If it helps, the diameter of the actual tumbler tube is 6 inches.

Thank you all in advance.

Regards,
Thomas

Look in this portion of this forum for home made tumblers and you will find the answer to your question. It is at the top of the page about 3 or 4 down.

[jmorris]

I bid on gear motors on ebay for awhile before I "won" one for cheap that was the correct RPM to use without any extra reduction, need for pullys, belts, gears, sprockets or chain. Direct drive, super simple and cheap.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I built mine using a Sears/Craftsman water well jet pump that a friend was going to trash and it was like new condition. Turns out you can hack all the old pump juck off it leaving a nice 1/2HP fan cooled, 3/4" D-shafted motor with a handy flange'd case end (where the pump body mounted) that works fine for tumbler use. The motor is way overkill for the job but it was $free.99 and about right RPM. It spins a little fast, I think its like a 3400rpm motor but I'm running the smallest pulley I had on the motor which is a 2" and the drum driving jackshaft is I think an 8" pulley which is just about perfect speed now. I had a 6" and it was a little fast. The drum shaft is just a piece of 3/4" steel tubing mounted is some cheap greaseable fleet/farm pillow ball bearing blocks and the pulley on the one end. It has some rubber heater hose slid over it that grips/spins the drum. There is no other shaft, the drum is supported on the other side by fixed caster wheels, two to roll against and two to limit lateral movement. My drum is made of 8" PVC pipe and can do a batch of 3000pcs of 9mm brass plus 5lbs or more of SS pins and it does effortlessly and efficiently. The motor is very underworked and runs cool, it really quiet (the motor anyway) and powerful enough to run a bigger setup.

[Norbrat]

I would suggest that the speed listed on eBay is a typo. Not a hope in hades that motor would run at 17,000 rpm! It is a simple squirrel cage motor and would nominally run at 1700 rpm.

[jmorris]

If nothing else it would give the OP a reason to return and get a more suitable motor, the advertised speed being off by a factor of ten.

[TWC941]

Its not a three phase motor. Its 120 volt single phase common washer motor meant for the common home.

I sincerely doubt its 17000 RPM despite the tag . I have the same motor in a box in the garage that I have in the past checked with a tachometer.

I would not however use it simply because of its mount. Just go to the nearest washing machine dealer and purchase one for $5.00 It will have a usable motor mount.
So any washing machine dealer would have a usable motor mount? Never even thought of that. I was going to end up jerry-rigging something to try and mount it. Ill look into it. Thanks!

[TWC941]

I would suggest that the speed listed on eBay is a typo. Not a hope in hades that motor would run at 17,000 rpm! It is a simple squirrel cage motor and would nominally run at 1700 rpm.
I am hoping so! any easy way that I could easily check that? I don't have a spare tachometer laying around, only the one in my car. I may be able to take it out of my wifes car though... hmmmmm.....:p

[Norbrat]

I am hoping so! any easy way that I could easily check that? I don't have a spare tachometer laying around, only the one in my car. I may be able to take it out of my wifes car though... hmmmmm.....:p

I do apologise! :-|

Google show a number of these motors and they all seems to have a label which says 17,500 rpm!

It seems washing machine motors have changed a bit since I was making them back in the 80's. Then the motors were indeed quite simple and ran at one speed, usually around 1750 rpm; this is related to the frequency of the AC power supply.

This particular motor seems like a multi-speed unit and according to the label, is 3 phase. That would be controlled by a Variable Speed Drive, which would be part of the electronic controller of the washing machine.

So I reckon it may be difficult to get it to work easily for your application.

Maybe see if you can find an older washing machine motor from a wrecker/breaker as many machines are scrapped when the spin bowl bearings fail as it is often as expensive to replace those as to buy a new machine.

Again, apologies if I sent you up the wrong path.

[6bg6ga]

I do apologise! :-|

Google show a number of these motors and they all seems to have a label which says 17,500 rpm!

It seems washing machine motors have changed a bit since I was making them back in the 80's. Then the motors were indeed quite simple and ran at one speed, usually around 1750 rpm; this is related to the frequency of the AC power supply.

This particular motor seems like a multi-speed unit and according to the label, is 3 phase. That would be controlled by a Variable Speed Drive, which would be part of the electronic controller of the washing machine.

So I reckon it may be difficult to get it to work easily for your application.

Maybe see if you can find an older washing machine motor from a wrecker/breaker as many machines are scrapped when the spin bowl bearings fail as it is often as expensive to replace those as to buy a new machine.

Again, apologies if I sent you up the wrong path.

I realize the label says 17,000- 17500 RPM on the motor label. My electric motor tachometer says 1700 RPM. Maybe some are 17,000 RPM. Who cares? At any rate its the wrong damn motor for what you wish to do. So, lets all get over it ok? What you want it a motor with a standard mount which is available from older washers and driers. I've brought a dozen or more over the years for $5-10.00 Once you talk to your friendly washer/dryer repairman and tell hin its NOT for a washer or dryer but a project your working on the price goes down to almost nothing. Another source of motors would be your friendly heating /air conditioning repair center. AKA furnace blower motors are up to the task.

[Sasquatch-1]

I thought about this at one time. I watched all the youtube videos. The one that intrigued me the most was the guy who used the windshield wiper motor. It was also one of the easiest to build. I did not build it because I was to cheap to buy a wiper motor from the junkyard. Go to youtube and run wiper motor tumbler, there are several vids.

[6bg6ga]

Windshield wiper motor would require a hefty 12VDC power supply or a battery. Consider the cost of the battery or the power supply or battery and battery charger and its no real cost savings.

One needs to consider this direct drive option, yes. I believe one needs to find a frequency drive motor that one can adjust the rpm to suit the need and the tumbler load.

Yes, this type of motor is more costly. This type of design however will eliminate some of the more costly assemblies needed with other designs.

[NyFirefighter357]

https://youtu.be/9bXLq_9CW4c This is the one I'm building. Most if not all of the material can be scrounged for free. 12v wiper motor (Got one from my buddy who's a mechanic), 12v laptop power supply ( Found an old computer power supply someone didn't need or you can use a small 12v battery and low amp charger), an old bed frame ( I always find these being thrown away I keep 1 or 2 around) , 3 position 6 pin switch (You can use 2 single throw toggles to reverse polarity also), 2 rubber casters ( I had these kicking around), extension nut and bolt (I bought these mine needed metric thread), The feet I'll make with 4 bolts and rubber or cork stoppers if I don't have something else that will work. The barrel is 2-5 gal. bucket and I'll bought a screw on lid that fits 3.5gal to 5 gal bucket from Home Depot for $8 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leaktite-5-gal-Screw-Top-Lid-5GAMMA6/203205720) All totaled I have about $12 invested in the project.
This is the overview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MchjmCIvzlY

[6bg6ga]

https://youtu.be/9bXLq_9CW4c This is the one I'm building. Most if not all of the material can be scrounged for free. 12v wiper motor (Got one from my buddy who's a mechanic), 12v laptop power supply ( Found an old computer power supply someone didn't need or you can use a small 12v battery and low amp charger), an old bed frame ( I always find these being thrown away I keep 1 or 2 around) , 3 position 6 pin switch (You can use 2 single throw toggles to reverse polarity also), 2 rubber casters ( I had these kicking around), extension nut and bolt (I bought these mine needed metric thread), The feet I'll make with 4 bolts and rubber or cork stoppers if I don't have something else that will work. The barrel is 2-5 gal. bucket and I'll bought a screw on lid that fits 3.5gal to 5 gal bucket from Home Depot for $8 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leaktite-5-gal-Screw-Top-Lid-5GAMMA6/203205720) All totaled I have about $12 invested in the project.
This is the overview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MchjmCIvzlY

You will find quickly that the 1A-2A power supply you have won't have fun running the motor because the motor draws more current than the supply can put out.

[Sasquatch-1]

This guy uses a 5 amp laptop power supply that works fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXLq_9CW4c


Windshield wiper motor would require a hefty 12VDC power supply or a battery. Consider the cost of the battery or the power supply or battery and battery charger and its no real cost savings.

One needs to consider this direct drive option, yes. I believe one needs to find a frequency drive motor that one can adjust the rpm to suit the need and the tumbler load.

Yes, this type of motor is more costly. This type of design however will eliminate some of the more costly assemblies needed with other designs.

[6bg6ga]

This guy uses a 5 amp laptop power supply that works fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXLq_9CW4c

Never seen a 5A laptop power supply. Most are around 2A-2.4A. At any rate not the best supply for the windshield motor in my opinion. Switching supplies generally work better with a constant load.

[6bg6ga]

Looked at the video and I guess its ok. Looking to make one myself that will handle a 5 gal bucket full of 308's with SS pins. The windshield motor will probably be ok provided it isn't loaded too heavy and the duty cycle is below 100% since it wasn't designed to run the load it is being used for. In other words its easier to run the wipers on a Toyota than it probably will be to run the bucket full of brass, pins, and water. Myself I will opt for a decent motor up to the task. Just my opinion.

[DanishM1Garand]

already ordered it.... any suggestions on actually making it work out or am I better off just paying the return shipping and getting a different one?
Just sell it on eBay.

Find a free or nearly free treadmill on Craigslist. Use that at your power source it will be set up to turn at the speeds you desire.

https://columbus.craigslist.org/spo/6021191318.html. 50 bucks.

[jmorris]

I had started down the road of pulleys, jackshafts and pillow blocks, when I set out to build one.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/DSC02488.jpg

As luck would have it, I found a suitable gear motor for less that the bearings would have cost before I went to work on it. I used 2 100lb 12.7 gallon chlorine buckets (any pool guy will give them to you) they are stronger than your normal 5 gallon bucket and hold a lot more. One is mounted to a case plate permanently and the one with agitators in it just slides in and out of it.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/SST/DSC02490.jpg

[toallmy]

You might check the local scrap yard , I have picked up some heavy duty electric motors and gearboxes for a few bucks at times that they got from the local poultry plant , check the lead price wile your their .

[6bg6ga]

I had started down the road of pulleys, jackshafts and pillow blocks, when I set out to build one.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/DSC02488.jpg

As luck would have it, I found a suitable gear motor for less that the bearings would have cost before I went to work on it. I used 2 100lb 12.7 gallon chlorine buckets (any pool guy will give them to you) they are stronger than your normal 5 gallon bucket and hold a lot more. One is mounted to a case plate permanently and the one with agitators in it just slides in and out of it.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/SST/DSC02490.jpg

I've put together a lot of stuff over the years so I will throw my two cents in here. The only decent, smart, and sensible way to build one of these tumblers is shown in the bottom picture.

By the time you buy pulleys, belts, shafts, and all the assorted BS you could have a motor and a setup like this one. There is no guess work because its a jmorris design. Make it like shown and you will have something that will last a lifetime.

So, get your calculator out and start adding up all the pulleys, shafts, bearings and stuff you will need to put one of these together and you will be surprised that your probably 90% toward buying a motor for a direct drive setup. This is the best in simplicity and functionality that you will ever find.

[SlowBurn]

Just sell it on eBay.

Find a free or nearly free treadmill on Craigslist. Use that at your power source it will be set up to turn at the speeds you desire.

https://columbus.craigslist.org/spo/6021191318.html. 50 bucks.

I went the with a free treadmill; came with power switch and speed control.
another-cheap-wet-tumbler (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?286774-another-cheap-wet-tumbler)



https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5618/20429418143_f4ba103298_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/x8h7gi)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/660/21024254596_d8a7c0b2f5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/y2QNqd)

[TWC941]

so... to update everyone on my status, I just send the motor back for return. What kind of motor should I be looking for now? I want to make sure I get it right this time lol :P

[6bg6ga]

so... to update everyone on my status, I just send the motor back for return. What kind of motor should I be looking for now? I want to make sure I get it right this time lol :P

You need to say how big a tumbler want. A 5 gal bucket or smaller? Answer that and you can figure which direction you want to go. Want to do a lot of cases? If so then the 5 gal bucket is right for you. Less cases then scale it down.

Do you need a picture of a motor so you know what to look for? Basically you will want a motor with a mount like the picture jmorris posted.

[TWC941]

You need to say how big a tumbler want. A 5 gal bucket or smaller? Answer that and you can figure which direction you want to go. Want to do a lot of cases? If so then the 5 gal bucket is right for you. Less cases then scale it down.

Do you need a picture of a motor so you know what to look for? Basically you will want a motor with a mount like the picture jmorris posted.
I want to do a 6 inch pvc pipe approximately 2 feet long. I have a metric **** ton of brass that I am in the process of decapping and after than will be cleaning.

I have been looking online and really like the idea of the treadmill like was posted above. currently browsing the wonderful world or craigslist seeing if I can find a cheap one.

[Alstep]

Here's one I built recently. Simple & straightforward.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?322931-Tumbler-Project

[Carrier]

My son built this in a couple of hours for under a $100.00. The reducer cost more than the other parts as they were all used.


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p45/r404a/afdbb24c3371ed8abd69563411214938_zpssdkhlsuz.jpg



http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p45/r404a/433490fad9944b7a0545ab94a10ca3ff_zpsmivkls1k.jpg

[No Blue]

Why do all you guys use pillow block bearings? At the speeds and loads of a tumbler, greased oak is all you need. It's like none of you have a clue as to what will work.

Like the 17,000rpm motor; obvious misprint. I have a die grinder that runs near that speed, but that's what you need to have a 1/2" grinder wheel do some work. Not a dishwasher.

[SARuger]

I'm building mine out of the wifes ice cream maker(she won't notice until its summertime) and a 5g bucket and resealable lid from Home Depot. A frame welded up by me, some casters, a shaft, then some baffles in the bucket. I should have it done in a few days.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you must use an excessively fast motor, the simplest drive is to support the drum on two rollers surfaced with rubber hose, and drive one of the rollers.

A gear motor, slow enough to keep the contents tumbling rather than held in place by centrifugal force, is by far the best thing for the job. A windshield wiper motor can be good for a smallish one, and can be powered by a car battery charger. A good way to get a free and quiet bearing which will outlast greased oak is to have a slow motor spindle connected to the bottom or lid of the drum by a piece of stiff hose, and float the drum in water.

[6bg6ga]

Some prefer bearings over oak because it is a more precise way to put it together. Some here have mechanical/engineering backgrounds and while the oak may work they choose not to do it the red neck way ( no offense meant) If its worth doing its worth doing correctly and you certainly cannot fault bearing as a proper way to impliment the design.

[jmorris]

It's like none of you have a clue as to what will work.

Cleaning each piece of brass by hand will work, that said we all know there are better ways to do it.

[Kenstone]

Why do all you guys use pillow block bearings? At the speeds and loads of a tumbler, greased oak is all you need. It's like none of you have a clue as to what will work.

Like the 17,000rpm motor; obvious misprint. I have a die grinder that runs near that speed, but that's what you need to have a 1/2" grinder wheel do some work. Not a dishwasher.
:D
Post up some pics of stuff you made...
:bigsmyl2:

[ulav8r]

Many newer washing machines use a high speed 3 phase motor. The high speed is used to spin dry the clothes so they do not have to spend as much time in the dryer. The three phase is so the speed can be varied electronically. Maytag Neptune was one of the first in the US.

[danomano]

This is what I did for wet tumbling.. pulleys, both sides are linked with pulleys too so they both turn are home made from wood aside from the one on the motor. very little money in to this. maybe 20 bucks.
189374

[country gent]

I have made several tumblers over the years. I have used steel frames, wood frames and reworked originals. One used a 5 gal bucket and its lid. What the friend wanted, I wanted to run a small threaded rod and bolt a cover on. Added some rails in the bucket to help with agitation also. Made a couple drive wheels for around the bucket so lid and rails weren't an issue. Another used a wooden drum 12" dia X12 long. barrel was 3/4" thick pine sealed with an epoxy coating. Octagonal in shape and each end offset 1" in the drive wheel. It rocked and spun really worked well. It was a wood frame and bronze bushing glued into the wood frame. Last was an old dryer for a trap and skeet club. Lined the drum with thin sheet metal and rubber coated it. Used the original motor and change pulley to slow it down. This one was used by members to clean large batches of shotgun hulls. The drum was fixed so just used a 2" flat belt around it for the driven pulley. Theres a lot of ways to build a tumbler or agitating case polisher. I have thought about a rocker type that rolls 1/2-3/4 turn back and forth for even more agitation

[TWC941]

what do you all use as the rubber grips to help it grip while rotating?

[TWC941]

I went the with a free treadmill; came with power switch and speed control.
another-cheap-wet-tumbler (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?286774-another-cheap-wet-tumbler)



https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5618/20429418143_f4ba103298_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/x8h7gi)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/660/21024254596_d8a7c0b2f5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/y2QNqd)

what are those yellow grips and where did you find them???

[country gent]

Ive used rubber hose. Just get it the same size as the rods and press it over with a little rubber cement for lube to help it slide. Ive cut down leather belting for the drum wheels also. or rubber tubing in a groove around the out side of the wheels

[ncbearman]

what do you all use as the rubber grips to help it grip while rotating?

Stair tread tape. Its pricey but I had some laying around.

[6bg6ga]

Just out of curiosity ...how much do you guys have tied up in the bearings, shafts and assorted hardware? I'm going to guess $20 per each pillow block bearing assembly for something that's not dirt cheap. Say $20-25 for shafts? Something to keep alignment....$20

Looks like the cost saving way of doing it is pretty close to the direct drive motor cost. :D

[mdi]

I would google "gear/pulley ratios" (small motor pullet to a large pulley on a jack shaft, and again a small pulley on the other end of the jack shaft to a larger pulley on the drum. Some info; http://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng.aspx

[No Blue]

:D
Post up some pics of stuff you made...
:bigsmyl2:

I'd post a picture of the 5100 square foot home I built; but I don't want any of you peeps knowing where I live! :)

Just search for a picture of a Conestoga wagon; those and all other horse drawn wagons used a greased oak bearing for the wheels. That would last the 1500 mile trip to California with no problems.

Lots more of a load in the wagon than 10 pounds of pins and brass....

Using a ball bearing for that is massive overkill. Save your money.

To the poster about high speed washing machines; maybe in a commercial laundry, like a big hotel, motel, or uniform cleaning, will they have 3 phase motors. You have to be in a non-residential area to have access to 3 phase power, so the Neptune was not a 3 phase motor for use in your home.

I called up the local electric company about 3 phase for my Bridgeport; no way would they install a new transformer for that.

The new machines do spin faster, but the quick and easy way to do that is with gearing in the transmission.

[ulav8r]

To the poster about high speed washing machines; maybe in a commercial laundry, like a big hotel, motel, or uniform cleaning, will they have 3 phase motors. You have to be in a non-residential area to have access to 3 phase power, so the Neptune was not a 3 phase motor for use in your home.


The Neptune and other washers that use 3 phase motors have a VFD built in that take 120V single phase and electronically converts it to 3 phase. The VFD controls the motor speed by varying the frequency of the 3 phase power created. I worked in the Emerson factory that made the Neptune motors about 7 1/2 years, they ARE 3 phase motors.

[Kenstone]

I'd post a picture of the 5100 square foot home I built; but I don't want any of you peeps knowing where I live! :)

Just search for a picture of a Conestoga wagon; those and all other horse drawn wagons used a greased oak bearing for the wheels. That would last the 1500 mile trip to California with no problems.

Lots more of a load in the wagon than 10 pounds of pins and brass....

Using a ball bearing for that is massive overkill. Save your money.

To the poster about high speed washing machines; maybe in a commercial laundry, like a big hotel, motel, or uniform cleaning, will they have 3 phase motors. You have to be in a non-residential area to have access to 3 phase power, so the Neptune was not a 3 phase motor for use in your home.

I called up the local electric company about 3 phase for my Bridgeport; no way would they install a new transformer for that.

The new machines do spin faster, but the quick and easy way to do that is with gearing in the transmission.

Wow just as predicted you got nothing...
Just keep digging that hole, all you need to run that Bridgeport is a phase converter, and I'd believe the washing machine guy before you, as he has lived it...
:mrgreen:

[6bg6ga]

You guys can use all the wood you want. Me, I will because of my background continue to build things correctly and over kill. If I really wanted to go backward I'd make the whole darn thing out of wood. :D

[SlowBurn]

what are those yellow grips and where did you find them???

If you're referring to the two 3/4" plywood rings I cut with a jig saw, they aren't very grippy. I thought I would have to stretch a rubber band around them to prevent slipping, but so far there's been no problem.

[coatessey]

The Neptune and other washers that use 3 phase motors have a VFD built in that take 120V single phase and electronically converts it to 3 phase. The VFD controls the motor speed by varying the frequency of the 3 phase power created. I worked in the Emerson factory that made the Neptune motors about 7 1/2 years, they ARE 3 phase motors.
I have been in the HVAC industry for a long time. ulav8r is correct at least in regards to the drives (I'll take his word on the washing machine implementation as well). 120V single phase to 3 phase vfd's have been around for a long time.

The vfd or variable frequency drive does just that it varies the output frequency and voltage to control the speed of the motor. The ac line voltage is converted by the drive to DC pulse width modulation and then converted back to the ac output to feed the motor. Of note is that the motors should be inverter duty rated.

Who is going to be the first one to implement a vfd on their tumbler?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You can indeed get an electronic converter to provide three phase power, but I doubt whether it is worthwhile unless you get a good deal in a three-phase workshop machine. I am sure rotary converters lose the lower running cost of a three-phase supply, and I don't know if electronic ones do.

With a worm gear you could even run it from a home-made windmill. Some people (not me) use tumblers to mill gunpowder, and I can imagine gaining peace of mind from running it far from a power socket, or with the drum floated in water to earth static.

[jmorris]

I built a few of these tumblers using 3 phase gear motors and VFD's. If you have a use for ones this big you are not a reloader, rather a manufacturer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZOYjmAnO0

Each drum is good for 15 gallons of brass at a time and you'll need an overhead crane to load and unload them.

[jmorris]

I called up the local electric company about 3 phase for my Bridgeport; no way would they install a new transformer for that.

There are at least 4 ways around that, that I have and use. VFD's as discussed are pretty cheap, give you the ability to run 230 v 3 ph motors at various speeds, change directions and can run them from 120 v single phase power.

One of these would do it.

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Drives/GS1_(120_-z-_230_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)

A static phase converter is a fancy name for a box of capacitors that allow one to run a 3 ph motor from single phase. This one would do the job.

https://www.zoro.com/phase-a-matic-phase-converter-static-1-3-hp-pam-300hd/i/G1518142/?gclid=COzsj4_pvNICFQu5wAodJJMG0w&gclsrc=aw.ds

A rotary phase converter is basically a static phase converter that is running a larger 3 ph motor already and that inertia will give you better start/reverse on your mill than a static alone.

Like these.

http://www.phase-a-matic.com/RotaryDescription.htm

I use all three for different reasons and picked up a backup generator off of CL for just over a $1k with almost no hours on it that will deliver 100 amps at 240v 3 ph, to run the really big stuff.

[coatessey]

There are at least 4 ways around that, that I have and use. VFD's as discussed are pretty cheap, give you the ability to run 230 v 3 ph motors at various speeds, change directions and can run them from 120 v single phase power.

One of these would do it.

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Drives/GS1_(120_-z-_230_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)

A static phase converter is a fancy name for a box of capacitors that allow one to run a 3 ph motor from single phase. This one would do the job.

https://www.zoro.com/phase-a-matic-phase-converter-static-1-3-hp-pam-300hd/i/G1518142/?gclid=COzsj4_pvNICFQu5wAodJJMG0w&gclsrc=aw.ds

A rotary phase converter is basically a static phase converter that is running a larger 3 ph motor already and that inertia will give you better start/reverse on your mill than a static alone.

Like these.

http://www.phase-a-matic.com/RotaryDescription.htm

I use all three for different reasons and picked up a backup generator off of CL for just over a $1k with almost no hours on it that will deliver 100 amps at 240v 3 ph, to run the really big stuff.
J Morris you indeed have built everything! I was being facetious when asking who would be the first. *Wiping the egg off of my face*

[6bg6ga]

jmorris,

I would like to know the fractional HP of your direct drive tumbler motor. I've shopped ebay and haven't found one yet. Is it speed controlled or just a geared down motor.

I'm afraid I have to copy yours if you don't mind. Its straightforward and elegant in its simplicity. The money saved on bearings and rollers can be put into a decent motor and I'd rather go that route.

Thanks,
Joe

[jmorris]

It's way overkill for what I did but I only "win" 1 out of 100 auctions because I'm cheap and if your cheap you can't be picky.

This is it.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/SST/DSC02496.jpg

Some other photos of it in this album.

http://s121.photobucket.com/user/jmorrismetal/library/reloading/SST?sort=3&page=1

Its worth noting that there is no way in heck I would have bought the motor new for the project and only went that direction after I "stole" that one off eBay.

https://www.zoro.com/dayton-ac-gearmotor-39-rpm-tefc-115v-2z842/i/G2560817/

[6bg6ga]

I especially like the lovejoy connector. It shows experience in design and function. If you happen across anymore motors like that one reasonable I would like to buy one. I'm sold on the direct drive setup. This morning I was eyeing my 2 wheeler thinking about incorporating your design so it could be attached to the 2 wheel cart for mobility and ease of storage. When not in use it would attach to the two wheel cart thus not taking much more floor space. When needed to clean cases it could be wheeled to a clean area in the garage and simply laid down to run. If the cart was needed to move something the tumbler would simply detatch from the 2 wheeler.

[jmorris]

I just lean it up against the wall, takes up the same floor space as the bucket alone would at that point.

I have notifications sent to me from eBay gear motor, auction and no reserve are what you want. Bid what is acceptable to you then go on and forget about it. Most times that will be the end of it but every now and then you get great deals. I especially like the "free shipping" ones because on most of the gear motors I have won, the shipping would have cost more than I paid for them shipped.

Like my personal best eBay deal ever, <$50 burgmaster turret drill.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fAVaOMdBkc

[6bg6ga]

I just lean it up against the wall, takes up the same floor space as the bucket alone would at that point.

I have notifications sent to me from eBay gear motor, auction and no reserve are what you want. Bid what is acceptable to you then go on and forget about it. Most times that will be the end of it but every now and then you get great deals. I especially like the "free shipping" ones because on most of the gear motors I have won, the shipping would have cost more than I paid for them shipped.

Like my personal best eBay deal ever, <$50 burgmaster turret drill.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fAVaOMdBkc

Almost made me cry watching that video as it brought back old memories. That is a super find.

[Traffer]

Yes I made one from a windshield wiper motor because that is what I had lying around. I collect DC power supply's because they are always handy. I have mine hooked up to a 4 amp 12 Volt power supply. If you don't have one I would suggest a cheap automobile battery trickle charger. I haven't tried it but 2 amp should do fine. The WW motor is big enough to run a direct drive 1 gal bucket full. I have mine rigged up with a 5 quart thermos type jug and a 140mm computer fan (12V) blowing on the motor. Otherwise it gets very warm in about 45 minutes. I would be confident running a 2 gal bucket on it and gearing it down just a touch. Mine runs at about 75 rpms. Just a tad fast. I think the target would be about 60 rpm or 1 rev per second.
Another option you have is to run a faster motor with a belt around the outside of the drum. Clothes driers work essentially like that. They have motor pulley at about 2" diameter and the pulley on the drum nearly the same size as the drum say 20' to 26" in diameter. That would cut your rpm's about 13 to 1 and allow you to use in the neighborhood of 1000 rpm motor.
There are lots of youtube videos on successful builds. I suggest checking as many as you can. Give yourself a lot of options. I have even seen people just weld up bars going across treadmills at the appropriate height and set 5 gal buckets on them. One treadmill can hold at least four 5 gal buckets at a time. As far as washing machine motors go, I have tried to use them for various purposes through the years and found them to be nothing but a pain in the patutchy.

Windshield wiper motor would require a hefty 12VDC power supply or a battery. Consider the cost of the battery or the power supply or battery and battery charger and its no real cost savings.

One needs to consider this direct drive option, yes. I believe one needs to find a frequency drive motor that one can adjust the rpm to suit the need and the tumbler load.

Yes, this type of motor is more costly. This type of design however will eliminate some of the more costly assemblies needed with other designs.

[jmorris]

Like this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEW-EURODRIVE-R17DT71D4-TH-GEAR-MOTOR-/311815021248?hash=item48999fa2c0:g:rTUAAOSwTM5Yudp 2

No one is going to do a search to figure out what a R17DT71D4-TH is so the buyer won't get as many bids. Most of my "wins" I am the only bidder.

Then you'll have the thing for a year or two before you finally come up with a use for something that powerful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJVoZzBGBhs

If the one above had free shipping I wouldn't have posted it here and bid on it myself.

[Traffer]

One of the best designs I have seen on Youtube is a bucket in bucket tumbler. The guy direct drives a 5 gal bucket with a gear motor (hard to find a cheap one, this is the only draw back with his setup). But the direct drive 5 gal bucket with another 5 gal bucket inside for the media and brass and liquid. He highlights a lid that is available at places like Home Depot. It is a snap on a 5 gal lid with an unscrewing lid in the snap on part. The unscrew part is almost as big as the opening. Very nice. The next one I build will be like this. He also shows why he went to direct drive instead of using rollers that the bucket sits on. When the bucket gets heavy the rollers want to slip. People have gone to extravagant extremes to try and solve that problem. The most practical way that I have seen is to put a belt around the outside of the bucket instead of having powered rollers underneath.
Folks Tumblers are VERY simple rigs. You just need to spin a waterproof drum slowly with some ribs inside to help move the media around. There is no need whatsoever to make them complicated. By scrounging the parts you should be able to make one for well under $20. I think I paid less than $10 for the parts for mine. (Of course if I were to buy the parts new it would be very different, considering a new windshield wiper motor itself would run into the hundreds of dollars. So the first steps I would take would be to see what I had our could get dirt cheap for parts and design it from the parts. Not design it then try to find the parts.

[Kenstone]

One of the best designs I have seen on Youtube is a bucket in bucket tumbler. The guy direct drives a 5 gal bucket with a gear motor (hard to find a cheap one, this is the only draw back with his setup). But the direct drive 5 gal bucket with another 5 gal bucket inside for the media and brass and liquid. He highlights a lid that is available at places like Home Depot. It is a snap on a 5 gal lid with an unscrewing lid in the snap on part. The unscrew part is almost as big as the opening. Very nice. The next one I build will be like this. He also shows why he went to direct drive instead of using rollers that the bucket sits on. When the bucket gets heavy the rollers want to slip. People have gone to extravagant extremes to try and solve that problem. The most practical way that I have seen is to put a belt around the outside of the bucket instead of having powered rollers underneath.
Folks Tumblers are VERY simple rigs. You just need to spin a waterproof drum slowly with some ribs inside to help move the media around. There is no need whatsoever to make them complicated. By scrounging the parts you should be able to make one for well under $20. I think I paid less than $10 for the parts for mine. (Of course if I were to buy the parts new it would be very different, considering a new windshield wiper motor itself would run into the hundreds of dollars. So the first steps I would take would be to see what I had our could get dirt cheap for parts and design it from the parts. Not design it then try to find the parts.
Lots of used wiper motors on ebay for $20 or less with shipping included.

How do I know this, I've been looking:bigsmyl2:
Thanks for posting about your build,
:mrgreen:

[No Blue]

The Neptune and other washers that use 3 phase motors have a VFD built in that take 120V single phase and electronically converts it to 3 phase. The VFD controls the motor speed by varying the frequency of the 3 phase power created. I worked in the Emerson factory that made the Neptune motors about 7 1/2 years, they ARE 3 phase motors.

I stand corrected. Using a VFD starts to explain why those Neptune's cost a fortune and were nightmares for the owners and Maytag. That was one lousy puppy of a washer.

I built a rotary convertor to run the Bport, 5hp 3phase motor, some caps, heavy duty switch. Found out about VFD's 5 years after I built the rotary; no Internet 20 years ago to find out about them and then have a way to find good deals.

The machine Danomano made is what I'm going to make; no welded steel frames, no pillow blocks, just something simple and cheap. All I want to do is spin a drum with some metal in it....

[SlowBurn]

The machine Danomano made is what I'm going to make; no welded steel frames, no pillow blocks, just something simple and cheap. All I want to do is spin a drum with some metal in it....

If you can, consider building with the idle shaft higher than the driven shaft. When they're at the same elavation, they share the weight equally. When the driven shaft is lower, more of the drum weight rides on it, increasing friction, decreasing opportunity for slippage.

You may be able to see the elevation differences in post 46 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?328653-Homemade-Tumbler-Question&p=3970081&viewfull=1#post3970081) where the idle shaft's main purpose is to balance the drum over the driven the shaft.

g'luck and have fun




(http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?328653-Homemade-Tumbler-Question&p=3970081&viewfull=1#post3970081)

[No Blue]

If you can, consider building with the idle shaft higher than the driven shaft. When they're at the same elavation, they share the weight equally. When the driven shaft is lower, more of the drum weight rides on it, increasing friction, decreasing opportunity for slippage.

You may be able to see the elevation differences in post 46 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?328653-Homemade-Tumbler-Question&p=3970081&viewfull=1#post3970081) where the idle shaft's main purpose is to balance the drum over the driven the shaft.

g'luck and have fun




(http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?328653-Homemade-Tumbler-Question&p=3970081&viewfull=1#post3970081)

Very good point! You have superior spatial relationship ability. I'll do it that way.

Traffer made a good point of collecting the material and then design to use it.

Instead of designing first and then have to buy the material at whatever price.

DIY is to save money, so I do.

[6bg6ga]

I had started down the road of pulleys, jackshafts and pillow blocks, when I set out to build one.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/DSC02488.jpg

As luck would have it, I found a suitable gear motor for less that the bearings would have cost before I went to work on it. I used 2 100lb 12.7 gallon chlorine buckets (any pool guy will give them to you) they are stronger than your normal 5 gallon bucket and hold a lot more. One is mounted to a case plate permanently and the one with agitators in it just slides in and out of it.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/SST/DSC02490.jpg

On your tumbler John is there any support rods under the bucket?

Looking at the motor assembly it looks to me like a love joy connector and then a bearing and then the bucket attaching plate. Am I correct here?

Thanks,
Joe

[jmorris]

There is additional support under the bucket, it is just bolted to the plate that is welded to 1" shaft. The 1" shaft rides in two bearings that are for go kart axles bolted into a box I welded together. They make sure no load ever sees the output shaft of the motor except rotational. The love joy coupling was used because the motor already had half of it and I happened to have the 1" side so all I had to buy was the spider, makes everything go together faster because it doesn't have to be perfect at that point.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/SST/DSC02498.jpg

I will point out that a 100 lb chlorine bucket is a lot stronger than your average 5 gallon bucket.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/SST/DSC02444.jpg