N Frame Cylinder Problem.

[USSR]

Recently ran into a problem with my nice 6 inch 25-5. After firing several rounds, the cylinder becomes hard to rotate - both single action and double action. With no cases in the cylinder, I can move the cylinder forward and back. It goes from having a cylinder gap with the barrel when I push the cylinder back, to having no cylinder gap when I push it forward. So the case rims are causing the cylinder to move forward, eliminating the cylinder gap. End Shake, Yes? So now the question is: can a local good gunsmith (http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=gunsmith) fix this, or is this a job for the Smith and Wesson (http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=smith+and+wesson) repair shop? Thanks.

Don

[Nueces]

I think it was Ron Power who started selling end shake spacers, or washers, that went between your crane and cylinder to move the cylinder back off the barrel. Another way is to use a crane stretcher to lengthen the crane barrel for the same effect.

Brownells has 'em: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/hammer-parts/hammer-hardware/cylinder-bearings-prod9858.aspx

[427smith]

don't know what your load is but a really light load will back the primers out. same deal when firing primer only cases.

[USSR]

don't know what your load is but a really light load will back the primers out. same deal when firing primer only cases.

That's true, but the problem remains that there is zero cylinder gap when the cylinder is forward and none of my other revolvers are like that and they digest light loads without tying up the cylinder.

Don

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Is this a new revolver, or have you owned it for awhile, shot it before, and this problem just developed?

[USSR]

Not a new revolver. I've had it for 7 years and it has just now developed this problem. I'm going to order those end shake spacers and give it a go.

[ReloaderFred]

Don,

Be sure to check for debris under the star, too. Sometimes gunk gets caught up under the ejector and can cause similar problems.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[eveready]

USSR,
Your 625 should be covered by S&Ws lifetime warranty. If may be worth your time to give them a call.

eveready

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I had the same thing with a S&W M25 30 years ago, it was the the old Unique which much dirtier than today's Unique. If BreakFree existed, I didn't know about it. I doubt that's your issue.
My bet would be crud under the ejector star.
Check to see if your ejector has backed out.

[44man]

Yes, seen it many times. opened the gun and wiped under the star with a rag, never seen anything but it fixed it.

[Nueces]

I think it to be clear that ejector star crud cannot be the main problem here. A properly fit revolver cylinder cannot be moved forward by hand to contact the barrel. Cleaning under the ejector cannot solve that problem, but the Power shims will.

[dubber123]

One thing to note, if the cylinder is pushed forward on a revolver that has a film of oil on the rear of the barrel and cylinder, the oil can bridge and block out all light making it look like there is no contact. I have noticed this before, but not many of my S&W's are that tight ;)

[USSR]

USSR,
Your 625 should be covered by S&Ws lifetime warranty. If may be worth your time to give them a call.

eveready

It's not a 625, it's a 25-5 made in 1981.

Don

[USSR]

I think it to be clear that ejector star crud cannot be the main problem here. A properly fit revolver cylinder cannot be moved forward by hand to contact the barrel. Cleaning under the ejector cannot solve that problem, but the Power shims will.

Exactly, Nueces. The first thing I did was clean behind the ejector star. No, I definitely have an end shake problem. My cylinder gap goes from 0.0" with the cylinder pushed forward, to 0.008" with the cylinder pushed to the rear. The End Shake shims are on the way. I will have to remove the ejector rod which I believe is a left hand thread. So, I will turn it to the right to remove it, yes?

Don

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Be sure to place an empty case in a chamber before trying to unscrew your ejector

[Harter66]

Waiting on spacers or rather bearing for a 1917 that did exactly the same thing .. .011 up tight on an AR case . I'm pretty sure whatever warranty I had is used up . :) On a lighter note it's pretty easy to fix and get the head space correct too.

[USSR]

Received my end shake spacers from Midway yesterday. I will be installing them next weekend. Will let you know how this plays out.

Don

[9.3X62AL]

I hope the spacer install resolves the problem.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Not a new revolver. I've had it for 7 years and it has just now developed this problem. I'm going to order those end shake spacers and give it a go.

The problem arising so suddenly is what would make me wonder. Yes, it might be debris under the extractor. That wouldn't force the front of the cylinder up against the barrel, but if you are mistaken about seeing that, it could be forcing the case heads up against the breech face.

Another possibility is that there was already a shim, and it got lost in disassembly.

[USSR]

The problem arising so suddenly is what would make me wonder. Yes, it might be debris under the extractor. That wouldn't force the front of the cylinder up against the barrel, but if you are mistaken about seeing that, it could be forcing the case heads up against the breech face.

Another possibility is that there was already a shim, and it got lost in disassembly.


Cleaned under the extractor, and definitely not mistaken about there being no clearance between the barrel and cylinder with the cylinder pushed forward. There was never any disassembly done to this revolver over the 7 years that I have owned and shot it, so no shim could have been lost. It just appears that shooting it over the years has resulted in this condition.

Don

[CHeatermk3]

Could it be that there was already a shim and it wore out and finally left the gun during firing?

The sudden onset has me wondering--

Anyhow, a new shim should resolve the issue if not there's always the factory option.

[USSR]

As for the "sudden onset", remember that it only takes .001" of additional end shake over 7 years to go from a working revolver that had say .001" of cylinder/barrel clearance, to a nonworking one that has zero clearance. It's a mechanical device that is subject to wear just like any other mechanical device.

Don

[6bg6ga]

Never took a S&W apart so bare with me..dumb question to be inserted here. How hard it it to take the cylinder out? I also have a 25-5 that took a tumble and garfed up the blue on the cylinder and thought if it isn't that hard to take the cylinder out I would purchase a new one from S&W and install it.

[USSR]

Not hard to take the cylinder out, but putting in a different cylinder would not be a "drop in" fit. Also, I doubt Smith & Wesson would have the proper cylinder for your 25-5, which hasn't been made for many years. You would have to buy a used one online and have a gunsmith install it.

Don

[Harter66]

Here's a quick and easy demo from that Potterfield guy . It is really just 2 screws and captured springs , no special tools needed .

https://youtu.be/JII__KNLYY0

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Could it be that there was already a shim and it wore out and finally left the gun during firing?

The sudden onset has me wondering--

Anyhow, a new shim should resolve the issue if not there's always the factory option.

If someone long gone did it by the light of nature, it may not have been metal. Or dirt between the end of the crane and its hole in the cylinder could have hidden a problem that lurked unseen as far as steel on steel is concerned. However it happened, a new shim ought to do the trick.

[Harter66]

Or perhaps the case of the lapped and polished edges finally fell in the grooves . We're dealing with .001-3 here while that is visible in 2 Ackley cases standing up rim to rim until the cylinder to bbl extension gap closes you may not notice it with 3-5 points of contact and 1-3 spring loads on it fueled by the muzzle and breach face run-out and runout of the 5 parts the make up the crane , cylinder , axle , ejector rod , ejector face run-out , moon clip run out , cylinder axle bore , and 10 other manufacture tolerance limits .

[6bg6ga]

Looks like I will tackle the cylinder change after watching the Larry Potterfield video.

[USSR]

The End Shake shims arrived this week, and so today I took the 25-5 apart and installed. What a time I had removing the ejector rod!!! Anyways, I had .008" of End Shake, so I installed .006" worth of shims. Noticed that the cylinder was a bit tight when closing, but took it outside and shot it. Got the same difficulty with cylinder rotation after I shot as before. So, figuring I had shimmed it to much, I removed one of the .002" shims so that I took up .004" worth of End Shake. The cylinder closed normally, but when I shot it I had the same cylinder rotation problem. So, I looked at the fired brass and the fired primer had some shiny spots around the perimeter of the primers. In checking my revolver I found out what the problem is: the firing pin bushing (for lack of a better word, it's the round piece with the hole that the firing pin protrudes thru) is recessed. This is allowing the fired primers to protrude beyond the recoil plate and causing scraping of the fired primers. Where do I go from here?

Don

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The End Shake shims arrived this week, and so today I took the 25-5 apart and installed. What a time I had removing the ejector rod!!! Anyways, I had .008" of End Shake, so I installed .006" worth of shims. Noticed that the cylinder was a bit tight when closing, but took it outside and shot it. Got the same difficulty with cylinder rotation after I shot as before. So, figuring I had shimmed it to much, I removed one of the .002" shims so that I took up .004" worth of End Shake. The cylinder closed normally, but when I shot it I had the same cylinder rotation problem. So, I looked at the fired brass and the fired primer had some shiny spots around the perimeter of the primers. In checking my revolver I found out what the problem is: the firing pin bushing (for lack of a better word, it's the round piece with the hole that the firing pin protrudes thru) is recessed. This is allowing the fired primers to protrude beyond the recoil plate and causing scraping of the fired primers. Where do I go from here?

Don


I don't think that is a big job. The bushing is out of stock with Numrich Gunparts, but may be available elsewhere. Probably it is the same on most or all N frame revolvers, and it wouldn't be hard to make one if need be. Somebody will probably be along who knows better than I do if it is a simple drive-out job with a punch from the rear, or if you need to do anything about the crimp. If you can get it out undamaged, I should think you could even insert a thin shim behind the bushing you have now.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/297680.htm

[USSR]

Thanks B in S. A couple of S&W armorers on the Smith and Wesson forum said that this is one of the few things that only the factory can do well, so I am going to send it in to S&W.

Don

[CHeatermk3]

I'm sure that when you get it back, it will be love at first sight all over again..it would for me anyhow!

Wish I had onenathose!

[Virginia John]

Sending it to S&W is a good thing to do.

[USSR]

Guess I"ll have to make do with the 4" 25-5, until the 6" one gets back.;)

Don