Revolver case length, or does it matter?

[sniper]

After initial sizing, many of my new .357 Magnum brass are shorter than "spec", according to my Speer and the Lyman #49 manual, and are not supposed to lengthen when shot.
I have understood that will result in inconsistent roll crimps, and less than good accuracy. So, how to resolve the problem...trim to agree with the shortest cases, hit an average between shortest and spec, or don't worry, be happy?:cool:

Thanx

[RogerDat]

I use the Lee EZ Trim, which trims to a specific length, won't go any shorter, I trim to that. If it won't trim then the brass will be a little short when it gets roll crimped. If bad enough I'll set it aside to do with other "short" brass but most of the time I still get a bit of roll so bullet won't walk from recoil. Good enough.

No roll or less than say 1/2 normal is enough to make me put the brass aside until I have enough that I feel like adjusting the die for a bit more crimp.

[dverna]

For accuracy loads, I would trim to a consistent length. For blasting ammo, load and shoot.

[merlin101]

For accuracy loads, I would trim to a consistent length. For blasting ammo, load and shoot.
Yep more or less, been loading .357 and many others for a looong time and only once bothered to trim them. I suppose it would make a difference in accuracy but not so much as I'd notice I can still consistently break clay pigeons at 50yd off hand. I'm happy with that.

[Bzcraig]

I don't worry about pistol brass.....

[44man]

Straight wall cases shrink when shot. I just make them all the same length. They rarely need trimmed. It does not matter if they are a tad short.

[ioon44]

I trim my .357 Mag and .44 Mag cases to the same length for roll crimping, I don't worry about the length just so they are all the same.
My 9 mm .40 S&W and .45 ACP that use a taper crimp I just load and shoot.

[str8wal]

.357 Magnum brass are shorter than "spec"

How much shorter than "spec" are they?

[robertbank]

I doubt there are many who would claim case length has any practical value for their results. I can't speak for others but my experience suggests varying case lengths in my handgun shooting is the least variable I have to worry about when it comes to shooting at targets of opportunity. I am sure Olympic level shooters would get some benefit from removing case length as a variable that might impact their scores but for hobby shooters...I don't think so.

I shoot lead cast pretty much all of the time in my revolvers and pistols and just remove the belling and rely on friction to retain the bullets. I have loaded some pretty stiff .357 mag loads and do place a slight roll crimp on them but for my practice loads and my autos I just remove the belling. A constant case length would assist in having a consistent roll crimp but given I don't for the most part use a roll crimp case length becomes a non issue.

Take Care

Bob

[Tackleberry41]

You just want them a consistent length for crimping. Its rare to find even new brass thats right. I bought a new bag of 308 recently, if set to the min spec, I cant trim them all.

[Shiloh]

I don't
I have in the past as an experiment. I saw marginal difference at best. There are others who swear by it.
PM Char-Gar. He does and sees a noticeable difference.

SHiloh

[funnyjim014]

Wow just realized I don't think I ever measured any pistol brass. Lol load em and shoot em. I am the reason for the large groups and flyers, not the gun or the ammo.

[tazman]

I ran some tests a couple of years ago on pistol case length. I found I wasn't a good enough shot to tell any difference. There are undoubtedly long range shooters that would benefit but not me.
The only case difference I found to matter was using wadcutter brass when loading full wadcutters. Even there the difference was only marginal for my skill level.
I could see it from a rest, but from offhand shooting, my groups were the same.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I agree, I've been loading since the mid 70, (as in last century!), never trimmed a pistol case. I don't like to make work, and trimming cases is work.

I believe the trim to length is the maximum length anyway.

[fourarmed]

The only time I ever did it was for silhouette shooting. If you are trying to shoot a 40x40 with a revolver, you do everything possible, including consulting a witch doctor. The witch doctor says, "Trim and anneal cases for a consistent crimp."

[sniper]

Thanks for the responses, all;

Showin's better than tellin', so "Just to see", I measured a batch of my primed brass, separated them into 3 lengths; Length, Less-than length, by .002-.003, with a few shorter, and Longer than length, by about the same amount. With the proper length brass, Set the crimp die per RCBS instructions. Seated till the case mouth was just a hair shy of the boolit's crimp groove top...right at the 1.590 O.A.L,:cool: and crimped them all. They passed the "fingernail test", and dropped with a satisfying "plunk" into my Wilson Case Length Gauge. Not a nickle's worth of visual difference between any of the crimps. :D
Will find out how they shoot as soon as the snow stops!:popcorn:

Now, to try my Dillon crimp die..they say it will both taper and roll crimp.:-)

[Dan Cash]

Don't worry, be happy. I am not a world class master pistol shot but have won enough matches to know that I am not shabby. In my 50+ years of reloading, no pistol case has crossed my trimmer. It is true that radical variations in crimp can affect accuracy but there are so many other things going on with a hand gun that crimp is generally an insignificant factor. Long range hand gun work can be an exception.

[str8wal]

Length, Less-than length, by .002-.003, with a few shorter, and Longer than length, by about the same amount.

Not enough to worry. Shoot em up ;-)

[Topstrap44]

I don't shoot cast bullets in my target revolvers but I have worked at pushing the limits of a revolvers accuracy for a few years now. Way back in the good old days shooting IHMSA I found that keeping the cases trimmed and having the exact same crimp was by far the biggest increase in accuracy for long range shooting. Back then with open sights it was hard to really see how accurate a revolver could really be at distance other than hitting everything and knocking them down.

I added a pistol scope and started seeing what my 10" Freedom could do, this was 10 shots on a 220 yard ram at a buddies range. It would easily hit all his little field pistol size targets and even smaller farther than that.

189207

Then I added a VGM (Variable Gantry Mount from Miracle Machine Works in Alabama) and a customized Leupold 2 1/2 - 8 pistol scope and was able to start really stretching it out. Using my same IHMSA load of 24gr of 4227 with a Hornady 240 XTP it was pretty darn good out to 500 yards. At Blackie Slivas range with JD Jones all three of us were able to get consistent hits on a standard IPSC target and we all got 4 out of 5 hits at 500 yards at least once. At Rayners Range the owner (Tom Rayner, Dale Tayler, Chris Kirkpatrick and myself were also able to get 4 out of 5 hits on the same size target at 500 yards with lots of 2 and 3 out of 5 shots.

189219

If you want consistent accuracy you need to trim the cases to get uniform velocity which give much better accuracy. It all depends on what you are looking for out of your revolver. A revolver is so critical in so many ways on how it likes to be held for uniform accuracy, that's why it was one of the hardest classes in IHMSA and really tough to shoot at the farther distances. I should dig it out this summer and try to get some good video and some hits for Youtube. Pretty amazing to see it come arching in from the top of the spotting scope, hit then drop nearly straight down in front of the target.

I made a special mount/bipod support for my Freedom 252 22 rimfire revolver to stretch the distances and see what type of accuracy I can get from it and it's been pretty surprising. It has a machined in 40moa increase and can just make dialing to 400 yards. I may try to make another for the 44 mag so I can still use the VGM mount but use the bipod.

189224

Topstrap

[corbinace]

Wow Topstrap44, you do not post much but when you do it is a good one. Thanks.

[sniper]

Wow Topstrap44, you do not post much but when you do it is a good one. Thanks.


Yeah, Wow! What other Superpowers are you hiding from us mere mortals?:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[rintinglen]

I don't trim any more, though I have in the past.. When I was shooting PpC, years ago, I was pretty anal at first. I measured, weighed and trimmed up a lot of Federal 38 Special wadcutter brass and used that for my match scores. I quickly found that the "perfectly Uniform" brass gave no advantage over my reasonably good practice ammo, if loaded with the same boolits.
Now, I was firing wadcutters, using iron sights, standing, double action, to a maximum distance of 50 yards. I was not using a machine rest with optical sighting equipment. If absolute accuracy is your goal, then it may be appropriate.

[44man]

I don't shoot cast bullets in my target revolvers but I have worked at pushing the limits of a revolvers accuracy for a few years now. Way back in the good old days shooting IHMSA I found that keeping the cases trimmed and having the exact same crimp was by far the biggest increase in accuracy for long range shooting. Back then with open sights it was hard to really see how accurate a revolver could really be at distance other than hitting everything and knocking them down.

I added a pistol scope and started seeing what my 10" Freedom could do, this was 10 shots on a 220 yard ram at a buddies range. It would easily hit all his little field pistol size targets and even smaller farther than that.

189207

Then I added a VGM (Variable Gantry Mount from Miracle Machine Works in Alabama) and a customized Leupold 2 1/2 - 8 pistol scope and was able to start really stretching it out. Using my same IHMSA load of 24gr of 4227 with a Hornady 240 XTP it was pretty darn good out to 500 yards. At Blackie Slivas range with JD Jones all three of us were able to get consistent hits on a standard IPSC target and we all got 4 out of 5 hits at 500 yards at least once. At Rayners Range the owner (Tom Rayner, Dale Tayler, Chris Kirkpatrick and myself were also able to get 4 out of 5 hits on the same size target at 500 yards with lots of 2 and 3 out of 5 shots.

189219

If you want consistent accuracy you need to trim the cases to get uniform velocity which give much better accuracy. It all depends on what you are looking for out of your revolver. A revolver is so critical in so many ways on how it likes to be held for uniform accuracy, that's why it was one of the hardest classes in IHMSA and really tough to shoot at the farther distances. I should dig it out this summer and try to get some good video and some hits for Youtube. Pretty amazing to see it come arching in from the top of the spotting scope, hit then drop nearly straight down in front of the target.

I made a special mount/bipod support for my Freedom 252 22 rimfire revolver to stretch the distances and see what type of accuracy I can get from it and it's been pretty surprising. It has a machined in 40moa increase and can just make dialing to 400 yards. I may try to make another for the 44 mag so I can still use the VGM mount but use the bipod.

189224

Topstrap
Hey, shoot Youngstown? been years and years since I was there. I found even case tension shot to shot was more important. I shot with Blackie, Boyd Carpenter, and the wonderful lady Josie Engle.
Have you ever stepped over into the PA shoot? I don't remember the club but had white targets with snow on the ground.
I hated to drive over Meander reservoir with the huge fish and could not fish it.
Back then nobody out shot my SBH, production, open sights and Creedmore. Most shoots were 39 or 40. I won Ohio state with 79 out of 80, shook on the last ram.
I won at Ozark, Lima, Youngstown and Bellfontaine. At Quantico and Piedmont.
I was there in the 80's, open sights, with the best of the best. I was International class with every gun.
What you say about long range with a revolver is true. I shot 500 meters and hit steel but wanted to shoot 800 but was not allowed because of cow pastures past the berm.

[Topstrap44]

I don't think I ever went to Youngstown, Ozark was my home range and also shot at Hancock, North Lawrence when they first opened, and Bellfontaine a couple of times. My mind is blank but spent a lot of time at the range up around Steubenville that JD was match director of where the Mastedon was located. That absolutely had to be one of the hardest ranges to shoot looking down into that old strip pit hollow. Wasn't any of the perfect backstops and perfectly aligned target stands. Also made the trip down to shoot with Boyd (got to shoot his XP with electronic trigger and the Engles. If I remember right they had either white targets with white background or black targets with black background and I had a tough time seeing the rams. Great people.

A buddy Dale Taylor shot a lot with Boyd and the Engles and shot his Freedom at a couple silhouette matches against the rifles at the extended distances and they were politely not invited back. I did venture up to PA once (Greater Pitt ?) to try my XP in 338CJMK at the rifle silhouette match, used a 4X pistol scope and tied their high rifle score of 32 but I cheated, I got to shoot creedmore.

We're now using a chassis for our old silhouette guns with rear triggers and occasionally shoot out to 1000 yards against the rifle guys. We started with midgrip guns and pistol scopes then slowly morphed into what really isn't a pistol but legally is. Who would have known that those old bolt guns could be competitive against the 1000 yard rifles but they do pretty darn good.

189355

XP-100 with 700 trigger and custom stock. We're also using undesignated Savage Target Actions.

Great fun back in the days, then too many classes and allowance of altering guns with sights, barrels and such. Been shooting longrange CF and rimfire matches the past few years but still using pistols. Occasionally see JD and Dennis L but haven't run into Blackie in a while. I run longrange rimfire matches at my house thru the summer, if in the area come give it a try, range is open all the time with covered firing line. I can only shoot out to 197 yards but make up for it with some really challenging small steel racks.

We also shoot pistols at these matches and have even managed to win a couple but do it mostly for the challenge no matter how I finish.

189356

Anschutz Exemplar with an aluminum stock I made.

189353

There is a fellow (Lawrence Leahman) that occasionally shoots at our local 1000 yard matches and has shot cast bullets. Watched him get a hit on a 900 yard target one day, he shot and we waited.......and waited and finally out of the top of the spotting scope comes the bullet and trace. Saw a little poof on the steel then the distant ding, was really cool.

Topstrap

[44man]

Never seen a pistol like that.