Cap N Ball HPs

[rodwha]

I talked with Eric at Hollow Point Molds who said I could send my ram(s) to have him thread them for a pin that matched those of the mold so that the cavity wasn't deformed upon loading. This sounds good, but knowing there is limited room I'm wondering about using a short pin (and allowing the boolit to seat deeper).

Lets just say this threaded pin in the ram is 1/3 to 1/2 the length would it likely keep the shape of the cavity in tact upon loading?

The flip lip side would be to make a shallow cavity, which I had also considered. Initially I made WFN boolits assuming expansion might not happen. Anything beyond .452" seems a bonus, but then seeing the gel blocks comparing a non expanding non magnum bullet vs a HP shows a tremendous difference.

I truly like the idea of a short loading pin in that I could have a shallow cavity and deep cavity depending on intent (max penetration vs damage).

I understand that this is a peculiar question, and I'm not so sure anyone has done such yet. But if the cavity isn't at least uniform it isn't going to be all that accurate, especially if I use them in a revolving carbine or sabot in a muzzleloader.

[Gtek]

Why not find or make another plunger that way keeping original intact, one screw swap on ram? Have a threaded button head from flat to individuals designed for different profiles of meplat and HP's.

[rodwha]

I have figured this would be a good idea. Not so much for an original as they have seemed to be designed with a concave face meant for a ball, which I generally don't care much for. I'd have one faced flat for my WFN design and one with a pin installed, though I also wondered about how removing the pin would work on soft lead.

[Wayne Smith]

Why don't you simply have a ram made with a pin, cast your boolits of soft lead, and have the pin make the HP as you load? You would have to look at release angles since you would have no lube.

[bedbugbilly]

I like Wayne's idea - I'm assuming you are using soft lead for your conicals. It takes some good pressure to seat the conical and if your ram end was made with the end profiled to your existing boolit with a pin added, it seems like the pin would punch your HP and the inside profile of he ram maintain your boolit profile for the most part. It might be worth a try before you have a HP mold made or alter one?

Interesting ideas and I hope you'll post what you come up with!

[beagle]

Probably a feasible idea. Several years ago, Shuz was messing with loading some cast in the .380 Auto for his wife's CC pistol. I Made a TP with a pin that allowed him to make a shallow, hollow point cavity while he was sizing and lubing the bullets. Bottoming out the stop, you can bump a pretty fair sized cavity in the bullets that are small as the .380. from my limited experiences with BP loading, the pressure should be sufficient to swage a small HP cavity in the soft lead associated with BP bullets./beagle

[bedbugbilly]

I'm glad you posted that beagle . . . .

I have shot C & B for 50 + years but mainly '51 Navies (.36). I tried conicals and just never had much luck with them - the RB shot better for me. When I was first getting started out in BP, I had a friend who had a .44 Remington and I remember that he experimented with conicals and they shot well out of his revolver. That stirred up the memory that he did experiment with HP conicals but at the time, there weren't the molds like there are now nor the custom molds. He drilled the HP in them and they did shoot pretty well and had decent expansion IIRC.

Anyway . . . . this has been an interesting post and there are enough folks out there that also use their BP revolvers for hunting, varmints etc. - and I guess I'm primarily thinking .44 but it might work well with .36 conicals - that I hope that someone will pursue this who has the equipment that could make an interchangeable plunger to poke a HP in one while loading. While they might not be a big demand for them, I can easily see a potential for someone with the equipment and a "home shop" to custom make them and sell them. I have the machining experience but not the equipment - and I realize that plunger dimensions are different for different brands of pistols but it would be an easy task to turn to the diameter of the customer's dimensions.

At any rate . . . I've enjoyed this thread and look forward to reading more if someone pursues it. Interesting! Plus, I never thought about punching a shallow HP in during sizing as you mention. Would love to see photos of the punch and the end product!

[44man]

I don't know, we shoot pure RB's and have killed many deer. I just don't see a HP. I use the Ruger OA and my friend uses a Rem.
Now a REM has a small cylinder with chambers very close. Gap pressure would ruin the next boolit but not a ball. We tested all and a ball is still best. Why a HP on pure lead? What would you gain?

[bedbugbilly]

44man - probably not a whole lot. I agree that a RB can certainly do the job. I have shot BP for many many years and with the exception of shooting minie ball conicals out of Rifled Musket for N-SSA, all of my shooting was with RB. It worked well on critters and tree rats,etc. I used to hunt deer but in all the years I hunted, I have never shot one. Have always been more "traditional" and so have my ML guns - never got in to fast twist and conicals or sabots or any of those "new fangled things".

BUT . . . I do realize that there are those out there that like to "experiment" and my philosophy is "more power to 'em". I like trying new and different things and this I just sort of find "fascinating" - primarily because I would like to see someone do it and what the results would be. And, as you point out . . there may not be any advantage to it at all. But it may be fun for someone to try it and see what the results are.

For what it's worth . . . which isn't much . . . . I've been casting for more that 50 years now and I have never owned a HP mold. I just never felt the "need" for it as when I've shot critters, a solid boolit always put them down. But, a lot of folks like to play with them and that's great.

A number of years ago, I tried several different conical molds for my .36 Navies and for me, I found that the RB shot better for the type of shooting that I do . . . and years ago, I took quite a few rabbits with the Navy I had at the time . . and they didn't know if they got hit with a RB or a conical. I have had Army revolvers but I always went back to the .36 fro the .44 as it was a personal preference.

For me, shooting BP has always been about the fun of it and trying new things . . . that's what life is all about. Sometimes we try new things and they work . . . sometimes they don't . . . . but you'll never know if you don't try. :-)

[44man]

Good post. I still love a RB. Yes I did use a Maxi Ball in a TC for a time. Can't complain but a flinter with a RB never failed either. I find it hard to improve it.
I shoot many revolvers now and rifles but pure lead will never be improved on. Just can't make it work with modern. I love a pure RB and if you can make it better, some gremlin or fairy is in the way. HP pure boolits?? Don't understand at all.

[rodwha]

A HP in a soft lead boolit is about expansion. To me bigger holes bleed more faster. This isn't necessary for something such as a deer, but if I were to need to track something I wounded that's dangerous I'd prefer a bigger hole.

Not that I'm overly concerned with overpenetration but even a ball is likely to pass through. But even looking at the wound channel produced by a ball vs a HP shows tremendous differences. I'm not thinking (yet) on deep modern cavities per se, but maybe something, especially if/when I get a .36 cal pistol, that a diameter increase of 25% (50% seems typical for modern bullets) might be good.

I prefer a wide meplat thinking along the lines of Elmer Keith.

I'm thinking a mold with pins gives me whatever depth I care for. There would be a point in which the pin would restrict the length of the projectile sticking out of the cylinder prior to loading. If I had a pin it may work for various depths.

[rodwha]

Now a REM has a small cylinder with chambers very close. Gap pressure would ruin the next boolit but not a ball.

Can you please explain this to me?

[44man]

Can you please explain this to me?
Sure, my friend shoots a Rem and the next chamber is so close to the gap, grease blown out and damage to a boolit is seen. Not sure nose damage does harm. A ball will lose the grease but is not cut by gas. You can see how close your chamber is to the cone.

[rodwha]

I'm certainly going to have to take a peek next time. Thanks for the heads up!