Digital scale drift

[pull the trigger]

I have a cheap Hornady digital scale that is iffy. I will be weighing powder and sometimes before I drop it on there it will read -.4 grains. So I rezero it and go but I don't really trust it and end up pulling out the old 505. Is it just because its cheap or are they all like this. Thanks

[6bg6ga]

I never owned a digital scale but I am wondering if you are using the protective plastic shield that comes with some if not all of the better scales. Most of these domes are designed so that they will go over the powder pan and they have a hole in the top and powder is insered thru the hole. Soulds like it may be getting a draft.

[XDROB]

I have been using their scale for a few years and haven't had any problems
I read that one thing you should do is wait 15 mins to let it warm up before actually using it.

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[6bg6ga]

One would think the electronics would stabilize before 15 minutes.

[hermans]

I have two digital scales, one is an RCBS and the other a cheaper model somewhere from China ordered on eBay.
Both need about 20 minutes for the electronics to warm up and stabilize, after that they both are fine and measures accurately for long periods.
The problem with the real "cheap" scales are that they are only battery operated and have "auto shut off" which prevents the electronics to warm up properly.

[imashooter2]

What do your check weights say? I have a PACT that I leave plugged in. It holds zero for weeks. Probably more, but I recalibrate it before every loading session and have never let it sit longer.

[psweigle]

I have a couple digital scales that I use as a way to measure bullets and cases. They are +\- .2 of a grain. I use a quality balance scale for powder

[6bg6ga]

Can you be more specific? Brand of the scales?

[Loudy13]

I was having the same issue with a lyman scale its frustrating as heck, now I let it warm up for awhile before using it and I read on here that any air movement will affect the scale. I did find some truth to that without my dehumidifier running (fan) my scale was not as varied as it was with it on. Just something that might help.

[6bg6ga]

One needs to keep in mind that your trying for accuracy of .1 of a grain which means ANY air movement near the scale will affect the scale thus the plastic covers with the opening in the top that the better scales have.

[Smoke4320]

A cheap battery powered scale is just that. Cheap. Good for weighing bullets. Maybe OK on rifle Rd where you have 5 to 7 grains of leaway and are loading at bottom end and blasting ammo.
Personally I would Not use them for pistol ammo where .5 grains might have you in trouble. YMMV

[6bg6ga]

I'll probably be criticized for this but cheap and reloading don't go together. Buy good components period as your life could depend on it as well as the life of your prized rifles and pistols.

[jmorris]

Test it with the same charge, I don't mean the same volume thrown but the exact same number of kernels, just keep it in a separate pan/container.

If the scale says something ways different than it did before something is wrong with it or you have air currents messing with it.

Also so if you are just playing with them at weights lower than you would actually use them, some have self zeroing features that will move you away from your baseline. My oldest digital (Dillon) doesn't do this but the CM1500 will and it's not a feature I like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxBSOOL7Ks

If I want 1 kernel resolution I would use my homemade auto tricker.

[jonas302]

Cheap digital scales are iffy I'm told florescent lights affect them too My Frankfort arsenal pocket scale will start to wander after using it a bit and they are no good for trickling .1 into Its a handy scale to have around weigh cases or bullets always nice to double check my setup on the balance beam

[54bore]

Cheap digital scales are iffy I'm told florescent lights affect them too My Frankfort arsenal pocket scale will start to wander after using it a bit and they are no good for trickling .1 into Its a handy scale to have around weigh cases or bullets always nice to double check my setup on the balance beam

I have owned a cheap Frankford Arsenal digital scale for 4-5 years now that has worked flawless from day one. That being said i stil don't fully trust ANY digital scale, i ALWAYS check with my RCBS 10-10 Beam scale. I have a certified check weight that i check my digital scale with immediately after turning it on, i will use it periodically through out. I bought my digital scale to check bullet weights, archery tips, broadheads, and occasionally powder, but RARELY powder and if i do each load is checked on my beam Scale. You never know about an electronic devise

[kokomokid]

When I built my house I ran a dedicated wire to each room with red plug in cover for computer towers only. No surges on this breaker so I used it on my Pact scale-dispenser and still had drift. Old time gun crank told me to coil up my plug cord and lay a large magnet on it. I stoped drift by buying an RCBS 10-10.

[dragon813gt]

At one point I was buying any and all digital scales marketed towards reloaders. I had a few Hornady scales in there. I threw almost all of them away. My overall conclusion was that if it didn't plug in it was garbage. Particularly if it had an auto off function. Just as the scale was warming up it would shut off. Most gave a different reading depending on where you placed the weight on the pan. Most did not recognize the weight until it was over a tenth of a grain. One of the cheap Hornadys was the worse offender.

I should have done an actual study and written down my observations. Basically what I found was you get what you pay for. I currently have a PACT DPPS and an RCBS Chargemaster. I trust these two scales. Anytime I've checked a charge against my beams they all read the same.

[salpal48]

I own a ballistic products digital and woks Fine.. The fact of not trusting The result Is always there. most Loader buy them because There Cheap.
I went Back to my Old reliable Ohaus Model 314. The gentle swing Of the beam Until it Rest On 0
Dump the digitals go back to Beam

[dragon813gt]

Dump the digitals go back to Beam

There is no need to w/ the right digital scale. They are not all created equal.

[dverna]

I have a good beam scale for cross checking. The two digitals do 98% of the work.

I could get by without the beam scale by using check weights but would never ditch the digitals.

[jmort]

^^^ This
Completely agree

[54bore]

My digital works AMAZING to sit down and weigh 150 Of my Cast bullets at a time, i am picky with my bullets, after a pour each one gets weighed, i only keep them that weigh 1 grain apart, 1/10 over and they go back in the melt. I couldn't imagine doing this quantity of bullet weighing with my Beam scale, it would be a major PITA! As i said i keep a certified check weight by the digital, after weighing a half dozen or so bullets etc. i put the check weight on, so far so good 4-5 years and stil going. The digital has its place for me, but NOTHING will take place of my RCBS 10-10 for weighing powder charges

[bkbville]

I use a digital scale - but on set up and periodically verify the charges on my redding balance scale.

Call in paranoia

[Norske]

Ballistic Products sent me an e-mail claiming they just upgraded their electronic scale. Their scales are sold by a number of other reloading suppliers because it's good. I periodically check mine with the supplied test weight and my RCBS test weights I bought for my balance beam scale.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Of all my scales- Redding #1, RCBS 505 and 1010, Lyman D-7, Dillion electronic scale, Hornady dispenser with scale I rely on and trust the 505 and D-7. I retired the Reddings years back, all the rest of the scales are several 10ths off sooner or later during the loading job. My Dillion and the Hornady both recommend a 15 minute warm up.Robert

[bkbville]

I have a good beam scale for cross checking. The two digitals do 98% of the work.


There is a saying that a man with 1 watch knows the time, and a man with 2 watches never knows the time.

Thats the problem with 2 digital scales :) I figure the beam scale over rules.

[imashooter2]

There is a saying that a man with 1 watch knows the time, and a man with 2 watches never knows the time.

Thats the problem with 2 digital scales :) I figure the beam scale over rules.

Time to post this again... I passed a shiny new dime around to all my friends to weigh on their scale. Here are the results:

34.4 Dillon electronic
34.5 Lyman beam
34.5 Redding beam
34.5 PACT electronic
34.6 Dillon beam
34.7 RCBS beam

So which one do you suppose is right?

[jmort]

The U.S. Mint says new dime weighs 35.000589 grains
My cheap-**** digital says 35.0
I guess there is a lesson in there somewhere

The following table gives specifications for The United States Mint legal tender coins presently in production for United States Mint Annual Sets.

Denomination Cent Nickel Dime Quarter Dollar Half Dollar Presidential $1 Native American $1 Coin
Composition Copper Plated Zinc

2.5% Cu
Balance Zn Cupro-Nickel

25% Ni
Balance Cu Cupro-Nickel

8.33% Ni
Balance Cu Cupro-Nickel

8.33% Ni
Balance Cu Cupro-Nickel

8.33% Ni
Balance Cu Manganese-Brass

88.5% Cu
6% Zn
3.5% Mn
2% Ni Manganese-Brass

88.5% Cu
6% Zn
3.5% Mn
2% Ni
Weight 2.500 g 5.000 g 2.268 g 5.670 g 11.340 g 8.1 g 8.1 g
Diameter 0.750 in.
19.05 mm 0.835 in.
21.21 mm 0.705 in.
17.91 mm 0.955 in.
24.26 mm 1.205 in.
30.61 mm 1.043 in.
26.49 mm 1.043 in.
26.49 mm
Thickness 1.52 mm 1.95 mm 1.35 mm 1.75 mm 2.15 mm 2.00mm 2.00 mm
Edge Plain Plain Reeded Reeded Reeded Edge-Lettering Edge-Lettering
No. of Reeds N/A N/A 118 119 150 N/A N/A

[country gent]

I have the Gem Pro scales 250 series if I remember correctly. Its always been spot on to the check weights. A scales like any precision measuring insterment needs to be checked and calibrated periodically to remain at its best. I also use my check weights sets as shops use gage blocks. stacking them up to make the charge weight I'm throwing and checking the scales there to be sure. Even beam scales need to be checked occasionally for accuracy due to wear or dust in the knife bearings.

[mdi]

I tried a "nice" digital powder scale (in grains) several years ago, Jennings I believe. It worked fine for a month or so (less than 1,000 weighs) but soon needed to be "tared" every time I removed the scale, and checked for zero often. I re-calibrated it a few times (following directions to the "T"). Eventually it refused any "taring", "resetting" or calibrating. Could not reach any form of customer service so, $120.00 gone. No fluorescent lighting, no power lines near, no wild swings of temp., no low batteries, no power fluctuation. Went back to my Lyman/Ohaus D5 and Lee PPM for good, easy, accurate weights.

Found a deal on a Frankfort Arsenal digital scale mebbe a year ago ($17.00) and figgered it might be OK for weighing bullets, brass, etc. so I got it. I have found it is consistent, and is about .1 gr. lighter, different than my bean scales, across the board.

Just my experience, but I stayed away from digital scales for about 8 years and I still don't completely trust some numbers appearing on a display, seemingly at random, over my tried and true beam scales...

[garym1a2]

They need to make a 5 or 10gr check weight. check a scale with a 500gr weight does me no good when my average charge is 4gr.

I have a good beam scale for cross checking. The two digitals do 98% of the work.

I could get by without the beam scale by using check weights but would never ditch the digitals.

[juggernault98]

My Hornady scale (40$) does drift. After zero and calibration I write down the number put pan on zero and write the number without pan. And keep tabs on where it's at ever 5-9th round. If it drifts to much I zero and look at the numbers


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[dragon813gt]

They need to make a 5 or 10gr check weight. check a scale with a 500gr weight does me no good when my average charge is 4gr.

You need to check a scale across it's entire range. I get your point. But if the scale is inaccurate at any point in its range then it's skewed. A 10gr check weight might be spot on. Throw on a 500gr and it's 20gr off.

[jmort]

^^^ makes sense

[imashooter2]

The U.S. Mint says new dime weighs 35.000589 grains
My cheap-**** digital says 35.0
I guess there is a lesson in there somewhere



I didn't make it, I just weighed it. :)

[jmort]

You sure about that???:D

[Half Dog]

Are the readings repeatable? If you put a weight on, get a reading, take the weight off, put the weight back on; has the reading changed? If so you could have a friction issue, something rubbing. Of the readings do not stabilize you could have an insect problem. Ask me how I learned that one. Many things could cause a problem, just need to start eliminating possibilities.

[ulav8r]

Time to post this again... I passed a shiny new dime around to all my friends to weigh on their scale. Here are the results:

34.4 Dillon electronic
34.5 Lyman beam
34.5 Redding beam
34.5 PACT electronic
34.6 Dillon beam
34.7 RCBS beam

So which one do you suppose is right?

The one that was calibrated properly and then checked with an accurate test weight.

[6bg6ga]

I calibrated both RCBS scales one a 5-0-5 the other a 5-0-2 both show 34.3 with a 2015 dime. So, how much do the dimes vary?

[jmort]

Dimes must vary in weight if we are getting varience in weight for new coins. I have always used new nickels as "check weights" as they are supposed to be 5 grams on the nose. 77.1618 grains
https://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/index583f.html?action=coin_specifications

[6bg6ga]

I get 75.4 grains for a nickle. Both scales.

[ioon44]

As shown, if a person looks at enough coin's you will find difference in thickness and weight. I mostly use a RCBS 505 and Lyman check weight's.
The digital scales I have and have had all drift, this is not a problem for weighing brass or bullets but I stick to the 505 for powder.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

A buddy of mine that is getting into reloading recently bought a RCBS 10-10 beam scale, in the original box and instructions. Looked hardly used for: DRUM ROLL PLEASE, $45.00

Have a blessed day,

Leon

[Chill Wills]

When Lyman first offered an electronic scale, I tried one. Sent it back and went through two more in short order. Spent more time messing with it than weighing. Then did not trust it.

Do you remember the advertisements that ran in the 1970's and 1980's Handloader mag.? Denver Instruments? (Answorth) They make a line of electronic scales. In fact all kinds of scales, industrial, commercial and scientific scales. All electronic.

The company owner was a shooter and reloader. He made available one of the models at a discount for handloading though it was not mentioned as price reduced but the same model sold for more normally. They were (are) the price of one very nice rifle.

I have had one for decades now. It is ON 24-7. That is what it likes. It is big and sturdy and feels like picking up a bowling ball.

Does it drift. Yup. I can do a run of 100 or 200 bullets or powder charges and it might loose a tenth BUT it lets you know. As soon as you are off a tenth you ZERO it and keep going.


If you shoot hundreds or some months, thousands of rounds, not loaded progressive, it is well worth having something so trouble free.
Life is too short for cheap crappy reloading scales.

[HangFireW8]

I have the cheap BPI digital scale. It pops to -0.4 from 0.0 at any moment warm or not. Yes I run it on battery. No I don't want to run a cord across my bench to a wall wart. I use one of my beams for powder. The digital is reserved for boolit weighing.

-HF

[6bg6ga]

Still on the fence on digital scales. Would like on however to check the RCBS 5-0-5 and 5-0-2 scales

[XDROB]

I have been using Hornady's stand along digital scale for about 6 years and have not had any reason to doubt it. I have checked it with known weight, along with the calibrating weights it came with. I do let it warm up for 15/20 mins. I have fluorescent bulbs on each side of my table. Overhead. Did not know that they could affect the scale. Until reading through this thread.
Nothing overhead. My reloading area is in a back corner of my cellar, so no real drafts.

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[Chill Wills]

The lights can cause a problem if they are on the same electric circuit. If your scale is battery or outlet powered on a different circuit ..... likely not a problem unless it so close as to cause EMI through the air.

[Dale53]

As I indicated above, I am a "digital man". However, there is nothing wrong with having a balance beam scale as a back up.

Keep in mind, tho', balance beam scales have their issues, also.
1-air movement
2- oil dampening as well as magnetic dampening have had issues
3-dirt or dust under the knife edges
4- rough treatment

You get the idea...

Let the phrase "always vigilant" keep you from harm. Dale53


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[EddieNFL]

I'll probably be criticized for this but cheap and reloading don't go together.

The cheapest is seldom the least expensive.

[308Jeff]

I bought an RCBS Rangemaster 750 in 2009. It worked great for about a year and a half, and then it started having serious problems with drifting away from zero. It got bad enough that I eventually stopped using it as I no longer trusted it.

[pull the trigger]

Mine is a GS1500 Hornady. It is a $30 battery only scale. I dump powder from a measure, set
itnon the scale, then drop it in the case , seat the bullet. When I grab the pan off the scale, it will sometimes, drift from zero. And yes I got into reloading because I am cheap. I end up checking it with the 505 until I finally Just put the digital away. I have heard people say the RcBs chargemaster scale will drift while they are using them also. I hate fuel injection, dont know why this would be different.

[EDG]

Here is my scale story.

A friend of mine bought one of the Dillon Determinators about 15 or 20 years ago when they first hit the market. He could not get it to work right and he brought it by my house for me to check since I had a lot more loading experience. It drifted terribly often .4 grains in about 15 to 20 mins. I was using it in a large closet with battery power. There were no air currents to bother it.
He left and said I could have the thing because he did not trust it. I called Dillon and the tech said that was about par for the course with that price ($99) digital scale back then. He did not think any of them worked great. Basically I had to zero the thing every time for each weighing. In Dillon's defense they did say send it back and they would do what they could.

So I put it in the closet for several years and forgot about it. about 4 or 5 years later I called Dillon again and they said send it back again. I was not convinced that it was a good way to blow $8.00 for shipping. So it went back into the closet. Another 4 years passes and I called Dillon the 3rd time and they told me to return it again. They were about to discontinue the 1200 grain model and I wanted it replaced with another 1200 grain scale. They had just announced a little bit cheaper 900 grain model and I did not want it because of the smaller capacity and the smaller display.

I finally sent the scale in after about 8 or 9 years and it still looked pristine in the original box. Dillon sent me a new scale about a week later and it was the 900 grain model. I was disappointed until I turned it on and used it. It worked like a hammer first time every time and still does.

In the mean time my friend bought a RCBS 750 Rangemaster (made by PACT) . And then he died. He family gave me the scale and a few other things. I tried out the RCBS scale and it worked fine also.

So I now have 2 digital scales that work well. However I would never trust them due to the potential for slip sticking of the posts on top of the load cells.
So I use them for weighing bullets and cases.
I had a Lyman mechanical scale that I really dislike, and two RCBS 5-10 mechanical scales that I got with large buy of a guy's equipment. I also had bought 3 Lyman/AMT Autoscales which have the same beam as the RCBS 5-10. My friend also had 2 RCBS 5-10 and 1 RCBS 505 scale. All these scales worth great. The Lyman Autoscales are for loading large batches. With multiple scales running I can set them all to the same weight and they can trickle out charges faster than I can dump them.
For small lots I like the 505 the best. So I have 4 5-10s that are just spares. I also had a Bair triple poise beam scale that looked exactly like the old Pacific and Hornady triple poise scales but I gave it to my brother.

Summary: I will never trust a cheap handloading digital scale for powder charges. I might trust a high quality scale for that but I have way too many scales to buy another and I get along fine with what I have. I have enough mechanical scales to start off a few more new loaders so I will probably donate them. In the mean time I set the mechanical scales that I used with check weights any time I weigh powder.

[375RUGER]

The unit does need to warm up. Electrical line interference has an affect on them too. I use a ferrite bead interference choke on my power cord, because the one plug in the loading room that my scale works perfectly on is in a bad location for operating the scale, and an extension cord doesn't help. When I really want to throw charges closer than 0.3g, I throw them short with the powder dispenser and trickle the rest with my balance beam. This isn't an issue if I run it in the other outlet.

[1hole]

Back in the mid 60s I worked at the Cape maintaining/calibrating precision electronic measurement instruments; I had good job security because that stuff isn't very reliable. I weigh powder only with a balance (beam) scale, my digital is ONLY for weighing things like cases and bullets because that won't kill me if it goes nuts.

Things from China (as virtually all reloading scales are) is much like a guy in a move almost said, "Chinese electronic stuff is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get."

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got a pact dispenser and scale, a small batter pact and a one piece lyman dispenser scale. All of them work great. Unless your spending 300 bucks or more on a precision balance beam scale there can be just as much variation in a cheap balance beam due to friction as there is on any digital scale. Bottom line is either can be off even a .1 of a grain. An amount that doesn't mean a pinch of ### to a handloader. Now ive also got a couple cheap kitchen digital scales and sure wouldn't trust one of them to weighting powder charges. Also I do calibrate my digitals before EVERY use. It takes about a minute to do. Not a big deal and get yourself some accurate check weights. Most good scales come with them. Ive chuckled before at guys who bash the digital scales but when they tell you there using some cheap plastic lee balance beam scale its me that gets the last laugh. My buddy (against my advice) bought one of those lee o press kits with supposedly everything you need to load. I was there when you unboxed it. When I saw that lee scale I started laughing. tossed it in the trash and went home and got him one of my rcbs scales. Same thing with that cheap plastic powder dispenser. I had an lyman dispenser that I really didn't like that was still hands down better then that JUNK. Bottom line is id no sooner give up my star sizer or loading on a progressive press then give up my digital scales.

[ulav8r]

My Lee dippers do not drift, do not require warm-up, and can be used during a power outage.

I use 2.77 grains of Unique in a 380 with Sierra blems, don't remember which dipper. This is just barely a starting load(old Unique, not current) that cycles my Llama reliably. If using a near max load I would use a dipper and trickler with a scale.

[jmorris]

I use 2.77 grains of Unique in a 380 with Sierra blems, don't remember which dipper.

It would be impressive if you could throw to the hundredth of a grain consistently with any measure, much less a dipper.

[racepres]

It would be impressive if you could throw to the hundredth of a grain consistently with any measure, much less a dipper.
,
And...Who... can prove that exact weight is resulting in more accurate loads than exact Volume???

Constant Fight and Disagreement on that...
Since I shot my very best group ever with a Volume charge...I use Volume..YMMV
makes me laugh as I have a Friend who cuts Sticks of powder to get his "perfect" charge...he has yet to shoot consistently better groups than a another guy using a Dillon...with thrown charge...

Life is wayyyy too short to fool with .01 of a grain of Powder...
And any Lee equipment I have seen in use...seemed at least adequate...less expensive, but at least as good as the casual operator..

I don't bash anyones equipment after being outshot by a Young man using a Lee Loader [smack it with a hammer one] and a Dipper...right at the bench!!!!

[fiberoptik]

So the moral of this story is: digital bad, balance beam maybe bad, volume kinda bad.....everything must be weighed with the old style balance beam used in the Bible, all against proven check weights on the opposite side. Good luck finding a charge matching said check weights!


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[blikseme300]

,
And...Who... can prove that exact weight is resulting in more accurate loads than exact Volume???

Constant Fight and Disagreement on that...
Since I shot my very best group ever with a Volume charge...I use Volume..YMMV
makes me laugh as I have a Friend who cuts Sticks of powder to get his "perfect" charge...he has yet to shoot consistently better groups than a another guy using a Dillon...with thrown charge...

Life is wayyyy too short to fool with .01 of a grain of Powder...
And any Lee equipment I have seen in use...seemed at least adequate...less expensive, but at least as good as the casual operator..

I don't bash anyones equipment after being outshot by a Young man using a Lee Loader [smack it with a hammer one] and a Dipper...right at the bench!!!!

Exactly!

I use volume charges only. The scales are there for calibration of the volume only. I really like the Lee Auto Disk measures as I note what CC's are used for the loads I do and this is absolutely repeatable without having to tweak the volumes.

[jmorris]

And...Who... can prove that exact weight is resulting in more accurate loads than exact Volume???

I suppose you can prove or disprove that to yourself, if you have a way to repeatedly measure charges to the single kernel then you have the ability to test them side by side with other methods.

Pretty much why I threw this together.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA0_KDjbBGQ

If you don't have the ability to see if it makes any difference your just guessing or hoping.


There are more than a few successful competition shooters that use devices to throw accurate charges that cost more than $1000, like this one.

http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html

Now, one can't automatically attribute a win with any single component or that would be like saying the car that won the Daytona 500, won because of the right rear tire alone. However if that tire failed, it's safe to say it wouldn't have won.

[racepres]

I refuse to Obsess!!!
At this stage of advanced development...almost any piece in the rack can outshoot me anyway...
Luckily, I have young friends who can really shoot..and they don't seem to care how the ammo was Mfg...just that it shoot as well as they can...If Not...something gets changed..
Now, none of them orient the brass, nor shoot only one piece of Brass...
Not what they are trying to accomplish...if they can approach 3/8 or better at 100yds...they are just fine with it..
If I can stay at 1" I'm tickled!!!

[jmorris]

At this stage of advanced development...almost any piece in the rack can outshoot me anyway...

Thats why I said you could prove or disprove it, there are lots of folks and guns that a half grain difference in charge won't make any difference in group size as long as it doesn't cause the gun to blow up, for them it would do nothing.

[ulav8r]

It would be impressive if you could throw to the hundredth of a grain consistently with any measure, much less a dipper.

10 scoops = 27.7 grains 10 more the same, 10 more the same, close enough.

[Carrier]

10 scoops = 27.7 grains 10 more the same, 10 more the same, close enough.

Im not disagreeing or agreeing with your statement as I only used a dipper 45 years ago with a Lee loader for 45/70. But I would have to agree with the slick setup Mr Morris has in his video to be hands down far more accurate than a dipper.

[6bg6ga]

A dipper and accuracy? That's a new one.

I don't know when jmorris actually came up with his idea on the electronic trickler but for me I mentioned the idea here on this forum in 2013 and was met with skepticism and ridicule. My original sensor I was using cost $40+ . Meanwhile thinking my idea had no merit I set it on the shelf until jmorris posted his electronic scale in a thread. His accurate inexpensive sensor motivated me to once again play with my idea resulting in the same basic thing jmorris came up with.

Now the thread being scale digital scale drift probably brought about jmorris post on his electronic trickler and the extreme accuracy of the trickler to the point of being better than the store bought units by RCBS and others.

Having checked my unit I also can attest to the ability to throw one kernel accuracy and accuracy in the three place decimal. Having grown up watching my father load for his 30-06 and watching the result of loads being .1 of a grain different I can attest to the increase in accuracy aka smaller tighter groups. I was taught to trickle rifle loads to obtain the BEST consistent load and that = accuracy.

Ever open up a box of cereal and wonder if the weight was accurate and being told it was weight and not volume. Did the dipper test for grins. The results were in favor of the trickled loads.

I can't speak for anyone but myself when I say this. Some rifle loads I use are borderline between max maximum and blowing the gun up probably where .1 of a grain will be the difference between extreme pressure and splitting the case. Is it excessive to want to throw a load very close and electronically trickle the load for accuracy of 99.99%? No, not when you can make a piece of equipment for less than $100. I guess you can always buy the piece of equipment for 3.5X more money and have something not as good not as accurate.

Maybe trickling isn't for you but it has already proven itself more accurate than the digital scales until you hit the 1K mark. Want to be more accurate? Then you need the very best scale either electronic or analog and at this point your at 1k or better.

[6bg6ga]

Having made comments above I will mention another thing.. Being able to make up an accurate load one can then turn to the gun, gun bedding, trigger group, and such and start eliminating the problems that are keeping your gun from being more accurate. Once the load is established the gun is proven the only thing left is the shooter.

[jmorris]

10 scoops = 27.7 grains 10 more the same, 10 more the same, close enough.

That would be a tenth of a grain and an average at that.

If you had a repeatable method of throwing charges, firing and chronographing, you would find out that a tenth of a grain difference in charge weight, depending on powder used, could lead to a 5-10 fps change in velocity in a 308 round for example. A 10 fps difference in velocity would result in a 3 inch difference in drop at 1000 yards. So even if everything else was perfect, the first two shots would be further apart than the 10 shot record. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/04/best-10-shot-1000-yard-group-in-history-be-amazed/

You, your gun, the deer you shot 60 yards away from your blind might not ever see the difference but that doesn't mean there is no difference.

[ulav8r]

That would be a tenth of a grain and an average at that.

If you had a repeatable method of throwing charges, firing and chronographing, you would find out that a tenth of a grain difference in charge weight, depending on powder used, could lead to a 5-10 fps change in velocity in a 308 round for example. A 10 fps difference in velocity would result in a 3 inch difference in drop at 1000 yards. So even if everything else was perfect, the first two shots would be further apart than the 10 shot record. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/04/best-10-shot-1000-yard-group-in-history-be-amazed/

You, your gun, the deer you shot 60 yards away from your blind might not ever see the difference but that doesn't mean there is no difference.

Ain't shootin no deer at 60 yards with a .380. For precision rifle loads I'll use one of my scales.

[jmorris]

Ain't shootin no deer at 60 yards with a .380.

Yes, it would be pretty silly to weigh each charge for a firearm you would be really happy with shooting a 2" group at 25 yards with.

[pull the trigger]

Silly is one of the nicest things I've ever been called ��

[6bg6ga]

I'll have to throw my two cents in. A lot has to do with the powder being used. Something like H335,310, 231 and such will throw within .1 of a grain. Others the stick type will generally not throw that close. When using max loads to me its a no brainer to trickle the charge so that my max charges aren't over. My time is cheaper than blowing up my rifle but then again its just me. My time to throw and trickle the charges is minimal when I'm only loading say 50 rounds.

Those that believe they can reliably throw max charges by volume with their Lee disk type powder measure may very well some day have their opinions changed. I personally hope this never does happen. It just goes to say you can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink and I guess you can show someone a better more accurate way of doing things and well I guess they just can't see the light.

I personally will continue to trickle ALL my rifle stuff simply because I was taught to do it this way. The only exceptions to my trickle rifle stuff is my 5.56 and 300 black out rounds. I still continue to reload them on my Lyman T-Mag and not on the Dillon 650. To each his own... I will opt for peace of mind when reloading.

[jmorris]

Silly is one of the nicest things I've ever been called ��

I didn't intend to call anyone any names, rather the action of trickling is quite unnecessary for just about any pistol round. It's really not necessary for rifle rounds either for most uses. Not like ammunition manufacturers have thousands of employees sitting there trickling every charge. If you can't get your handloads more accurate that premium factory loads that are thrown volume charges, are you getting a return on the time investment?

[6bg6ga]

I didn't intend to call anyone any names, rather the action of trickling is quite unnecessary for just about any pistol round. It's really not necessary for rifle rounds either for most uses. Not like ammunition manufacturers have thousands of employees sitting there trickling every charge. If you can't get your handloads more accurate that premium factory loads that are thrown volume charges, are you getting a return on the time investment?

The commercial reloading machines are more accurate than what we have aren't they? Capable by design to throw a better charge?

[ulav8r]

The commercial reloading machines are more accurate than what we have aren't they? Capable by design to throw a better charge?

Probably not, but I have data to back that up. When you consider how fast they run the automatic machines, it is a wonder they can get powder in the cases, much less hold a tight tolerance on the amount.

[jmorris]

The commercial reloading machines are more accurate than what we have aren't they? Capable by design to throw a better charge?

Not really, they are not adjustable though, at least not in the sense we are used to. They are more like shot gun presses in that they use bushings of different diameters/volumes so there is no such thing as loosing adjustment.