Choice between Winchester 1894 & 1892 in 45 Colt.

[AbitNutz]

I own a Winchester 1895 but really not familiar with 1894's or 1892's. I always thought that the Winchester 1894 was for smokeless powder rifle length cartridges, like the 30-30 and the 1892 was for pistol length cartridges. However, I picked up a 1894 AE with a 16" barrel and color case hardened receiver in 45 Colt. It was just too pretty to resist.

What's the good and the bad of the 1894 vs the 1892 in a pistol caliber? The action is totally different...even though they are different, aren't they pretty much the same? Similar size, same strength, same throw...etc, etc...

I'm confused why they would even make a 1894 in 45 Colt.

[021]

Because they didn't make the '92 after about 1945 therefore no option. The '92 is the better pistol caliber rifle, '94's can be hit or miss on feeding short cartridges.

[AbitNutz]

I'm hoping my 94 is more hit than miss as it's in 45 Colt. I have a Pedersoli Colt Lightning, also in 45 Colt. It functions flawlessly. I do wish it would let me slam fire it.

[Shawlerbrook]

021 hit the nail on head. The '92 is made for the short pistol cartridges.

[Butler Ford]

...

I'm confused why they would even make a 1894 in 45 Colt.

That makes two of us.
BF

[runfiverun]

they made them in 44 and 357 too. [I have had all three, I'm down to just the 44 now]
Winchester still makes the 92, they cost about 1200$ American dollars.

the model 94's have shallow rifling and tend to run large in their bore diameters.
but they will shoot.
don't be too surprised to have to use a 454 diameter for better results.

[Mk42gunner]

The Model 94 I have in .357 likes looong cartridges. The longer they are, the better it feeds.

Robert

[wellfedirishman]

Rossi 1892s are great if you want a pistol cartridge carbine. I used a couple in cowboy action shooting and they are super reliable. Put a Gunslinger spring kit in and they really smooth out.

I had a couple of Winchester 1894s in 357 and 44mag and sold them. The Rossis are better IMO in those calibers.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have at least one Rossi 45 Colt still after several. But if you can find one of the older Pumas or the Interarms (2 up north there) imported Rossi rifles go for those. They will cost near as much as a new Rossi 45 Colt but I still think they were better made.
The Rossi line are as strong as the old Winchester 92 which never was made in 45 Colt. But the 44 WCF made in the original Winchesters with a 240 grainer is nothing to sneeze about. Have several of those and they will "thwap" with authority what ever gets in the sights. The 44 WCF can be loaded near to 44 Mag velocities (use Starline brass) in the Win. 92's in the "smokeless" models with no fear.
MIke in Peru

[northmn]

My brother in law bought an old Rossi in 45 Colt. Darn thing spit in your face. He sold it. Heard later that he was using too light of loads that were not sealing the chamber. Anyway that was the first rifle I had seen do that.

DP

[ktw]

the model 94's have shallow rifling and tend to run large in their bore diameters.
but they will shoot.
don't be too surprised to have to use a 454 diameter for better results.

Mine (2000 vintage Winchester) is large in the chamber, but the bore is pretty standard (.450/.451)

Don't be afraid to try running .457 through them when using plain based cast. A good use for those light-weight 45/70 bullet designs (e.g. 457122, 457191) in molds that throw too small for 45/70 chambers.

-ktw

[Randy Bohannon]

Win/Miroku 92 are the best of 92's IMO. I use a Accurate Mold 300 gr. @ .456, it chambers and shoots excellent.

[Lonegun1894]

I HAD a couple Winchester 1894s in .357 Mag and .45 Colt, then bought the Rossi 1892s in same calibers. The Winchesters shot equally well as the Rossi's do, but the Rossi's feed smoothly. The Winchesters would feed some loads, on some days great, but then refuse to every now and then, just often enough to get annoying. I still have the Rossi's, but sold the two Winchesters. Mow before you get the idea that I don't like Winchester 1894s, I have a couple of them in .30-30, and they will always have a home here, but the 1894 action just was never intended to use a short cartridge. It's like building a .223 on a .30-06 action, and even though you get the right bolt face, chamber and barrel, and it works, it just never feels or feeds "right". I hope that makes sense.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

The 92 is the better pistol caliber action. Some 94s run okay with pistol rounds but it really is better suited to rifle rounds.

The 94s in pistol calibers I have handled seem to have a "clunky" action if that makes any sense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[runfiverun]

I should have typed groove and not bore diameter.
the 44 mag 94 and the Browning 92 in 44 mag is what got me into swaging.
the Browning needed a shorter oal, and the 94 wanted a bit bigger diameter.
I solved both problems by having a 4305 jacketed rnfp point form die made up.
I just put the cannelure short enough for the Browning's OAL and run the larger diameter in both.

it also works out for the 44-40 since I can gently squeeze the 428 diameter 200gr mold I have up to 430 and it loves the larger diameter.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/95900A3C1D2F5E8/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/744223B96FDE8AF/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/D17E117B0ED6111/standard.jpg

The above is my Rossi/Puma M92 rifle in 45 Colt. Even though it has a 32" twist it does a fine job with the Lee 457=340F I size to .456". The bore and groove in the rifle is .446" x .450" so it's tight with shallow grooves.

http://www.fototime.com/745969169444B08/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/DA71F46E61B6784/standard.jpg

Also have the above Win/Miroku M92 in 45 Colt. While it's barrel is perfect at .443" x .451" it has the 16" pistol twist. Truth be told it is not much more accurate then the Rossi, if it is at all.

...........Buckshot

[AbitNutz]

Anyone have experience with this place? http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/Home.htm


It seems they make (or market) an incredible amount of parts for lever guns...many of them improved.
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/pid_1897.htm
"This is the carrier for the Winchester model 94 POST 64 angle/side and top eject 44 mag and 45LC. They are extremely well made from 4140 alloy steal (which is hardened). They are NOT the stamped carriers. These carriers are improved versions of the originals. They are CNC machined here in the US. (The originals have a number of design flaws that make them very prone to breaking)"

[45-70 Chevroner]

My brother in law bought an old Rossi in 45 Colt. Darn thing spit in your face. He sold it. Heard later that he was using too light of loads that were not sealing the chamber. Anyway that was the first rifle I had seen do that.

DP

My Rossi 45 does that also. I shot it a lot in Cow boy action shoots. I was shooting a 230 gr lee round nose over 6 gr bullseye and it spit a lot. I went to 6.5 gr and that helped a lot. With my 255 gr Lyman RNFP it never spit no mater how light my loads were.

[Norske]

A few years ago my neighbor bought one of the expensive Winchester 92's in 45 LC for about 1/2 list price via CDNN Sports. they are a clearing house, so no steady inventory.
However, both CDNN and Davidson's have Winchester 73's in 45LC in stock.

[Sigmanz]

I had a 94AE in 45 colt. Although it fed and shot fine I never did like the feel. It was far from smooth and I agree, just had a clunky feel to it. I much prefer the '92 for pistol caliber.

[shdwlkr]

years ago had a winchester mdl 94 in .357 mag would not cycle for anything, got rid of it. The issue was the cartridge was not long enough to work effectively through the action.

The mdl 92 is much better with pistol cartridges that fit that action

[380AUTO]

I'd get an older Marlin

[bigboredad]

I have a 94 in 44mag and I really like it. It does like the longer oak but that's ok since I have 330gr bullet that has a long oak. The internals have been polished by a friend and the action is butter smooth and it also shoots the 330gr bullets very well even at speeds that don't beat me to death

[clum553946]

Good people to deal with. I've ordered from them quite a few times as I have a bunch of antique winchester 73's & 92's.


Anyone have experience with this place? http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/Home.htm


It seems they make (or market) an incredible amount of parts for lever guns...many of them improved.
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/pid_1897.htm
"This is the carrier for the Winchester model 94 POST 64 angle/side and top eject 44 mag and 45LC. They are extremely well made from 4140 alloy steal (which is hardened). They are NOT the stamped carriers. These carriers are improved versions of the originals. They are CNC machined here in the US. (The originals have a number of design flaws that make them very prone to breaking)"

[quail4jake]

Thank you for this post, I never knew the '94 was chambered in handgun/carbine cartridges. I have a 1926 '94 in .32 WS and a 1926 '92 in .32 WCF, both are honest and a true joy to fire but there is no comparing the '92 action for glass smooth functioning. I would imagine the '94 in a short cartridge would jam and run rough. Send pics, would love to see it.

[robg]

Anyone have experience with this place? http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/Home.htm


It seems they make (or market) an incredible amount of parts for lever guns...many of them improved.
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/pid_1897.htm
"This is the carrier for the Winchester model 94 POST 64 angle/side and top eject 44 mag and 45LC. They are extremely well made from 4140 alloy steal (which is hardened). They are NOT the stamped carriers. These carriers are improved versions of the originals. They are CNC machined here in the US. (The originals have a number of design flaws that make them very prone to breaking)"
Nice people good service ,bought a lifter and ejector for my win 357 ae from them

[Griff]

I own a Winchester 1895 but really not familiar with 1894's or 1892's. I always thought that the Winchester 1894 was for smokeless powder rifle length cartridges, like the 30-30 and the 1892 was for pistol length cartridges. However, I picked up a 1894 AE with a 16" barrel and color case hardened receiver in 45 Colt. It was just too pretty to resist.

What's the good and the bad of the 1894 vs the 1892 in a pistol caliber? The action is totally different...even though they are different, aren't they pretty much the same? Similar size, same strength, same throw...etc, etc...

I'm confused why they would even make a 1894 in 45 Colt.When Winchester quit making the mdl 1892, they didn't keep the tooling, etc. When demand for pistol calibered leverguns made a comeback, the only option Winchester had was to either re-tool, or modify the carrier & guides on the mdl 94 to accommodate the short rounds. It was first cataloged in 1967, in .44Magnum. They were only produced for a couple of years, not even cataloged in 1968! Mine serial numbered to 1969 & I bought it new in box thru the Navy Exchange in 1972. AFAIK, this was the only pistol caliber, regular production mdl 94 until the introduction of the mdl 94AE by USRA. I don't know when the .357 or .44 were cataloged, but the .45 Colt 1st made an appearance in 1985. 1976 & 1977 saw the Canadian issue of the "Little Big Horn" & "Cheyennne" commemoratives in .44-40, 1984 saw a Winchester/Colt commemorative set chambered in .44-40, 1986 had a .44-40 for the Winchester 120th Anniversary, and lastly, 1996 saw the issue of a Wild Bill Hickok commemorative in 45 Colt. I do not know if any of these post '83 guns were on top eject frames or if the were 94AEs.


they made them in 44 and 357 too. [I have had all three, I'm down to just the 44 now]
Winchester still makes the 92, they cost about 1200$ American dollars.

the model 94's have shallow rifling and tend to run large in their bore diameters.
but they will shoot.
don't be too surprised to have to use a 454 diameter for better results.As with the Browning B92 & 1892 and new "Winchester" 1892, they were/are produced by Miroku of Japan. The last Winchester Repeating Arms produced guns left the Winchester plant in 1982. ALL produced since then are made by others, putting the Winchester name on them under license from Olin Corp., who owns the name.


The 92 is the better pistol caliber action. Some 94s run okay with pistol rounds but it really is better suited to rifle rounds.

The 94s in pistol calibers I have handled seem to have a "clunky" action if that makes any sense.

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep, the mdl 94 DOES have that extra part that has to fall out of the receiver and go back in during the cycle. IME, the action feels the same regardless of the cartridge it's chambered in.


Anyone have experience with this place? http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/Home.htm


It seems they make (or market) an incredible amount of parts for lever guns...many of them improved.
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/pid_1897.htm
"This is the carrier for the Winchester model 94 POST 64 angle/side and top eject 44 mag and 45LC. They are extremely well made from 4140 alloy steal (which is hardened). They are NOT the stamped carriers. These carriers are improved versions of the originals. They are CNC machined here in the US. (The originals have a number of design flaws that make them very prone to breaking)"FWIW, the stamped carriers only saw use from 1964 to sometime in 1971. All subsequent ones are machined from the factory. IME the stamped ones are fine... unless someone tried to load an over-length and tried to muscle it in. I have a '67 Canadian Centennial with the stamped carrier still in it. Works perfectly. I recently bought a '66 Centennial at that "scratch & dent discount, and replaced it's bent & warped carrier with one from Wisner's (http://www.wisnersinc.com/model/winchester-94-lever-action-post-64/). Quick service & less money.

191272

1967 Winchester Catalog mdl 94 page

[The Ozzman]

Howdy OP.

In my experience, the 1892 is the best choice for pistol calibres for a couple reasons.

Firstly, it was designed for the purpose of shooting pistol calibres. Secondly, the 1894 was designed around the 30-30 and similar cartridges. The 1894 fills this role well. As others have stated, the 1894 can have issues with shorter cartridges, ie; pistol calibres.

As I mentioned in another topic a few minutes ago, the 1892 is a fine design for pistol cartridges, whether it be a genuine Winchester or a Rossi rifle. I am not sure, but the Rossi rifle may have slightly more metal on the receiver (don't quote me on that though!) and is surely strong enough for what it does.

I like the 1892, it can be easily slicked up at little or no cost (except time) and once worked is utterly reliable. The action is relatively simple, yet strong and I have found it to be fast, smooth, strong and very reliable.

Whilst not a perfect choice, it can do a fine job as a defensive rifle, especially in calibres like .44 mag and .45 Colt etc. I would be comfortable in using one for that purpose. When money permits I will be getting more of them in other calibres. Even as a western action gun, I can beat people with slicked up/worked 1873s in lighter calibres with no trouble.

[Griff]

Actually... the 44WCF, 38WCF & 32WCF (aka the .44-40, .38-40 & .32-20) were introduced as "rifle cartridges" in the 1873 Winchester... and only later chambered in pistols... so technically, they are what's become known as "pistol-length rifle cartridges". But still, "rifle cartridges". Whereas, the 45 Colt, introduced in the 1873 "Peacemaker" by Colt, is a pistol cartridge... although now chambered in several rifle actions. I've never heard it referred to as anything but a pistol cartridge. (Strictly a tidbit of information in case someone's got money on the line and saying they're "pistol cartridges"). The 1892 Winchester was introduced and only chambered in these traditional rifle cartridges until the latter third of the 20th Century... when clones began appearing in "pistol cartridges" such as the .357Magnum, .44 Rem Mag and even later for the 45 Colt. The original Winchesters can be found in these pistol cartridges, but it was on a case-by-case conversion basis.

But, indeed, you are correct, it is the far better choice when contemplating a pistol length cartridge in a handy, short carbine... or even a rifle.

[The Ozzman]

Howdy Griff.

Thanks for the correction; yes you are spot on, I recall Elmer Keith talking about this issue and the fact that the .44-40 or .38-40 suffered ballistically out of a six shooter because at that time they were still running rifle powders meant for long barrels and not 4-7 inch ones.

What I should have said was; "the 1892 was designed to suit short rifle cartridges such as......"

Thanks for pointing that out :-)

Ozz

[Greg S]

I started my pistol caliber journey with a 94 AE Trapper in 45 Colt complete with safety and inertia hammer. My friendly firearms advisor highly recommended the 92 action over the 94. It fed Keith style bullets but was rough racking. Alittle smoothing, polishing and clipping and it started to turn into a nice rifle.

I followed up with a second in 357 Magnum but with a 92 20" carbine. Completely different lockup (stronger) and alot smoother. Since, the 94 went down the road and was replaced with a 92 Trapper TD in 45 and a third 92 rifle with an octogon barrel in 32-20.

By once and cry once, there is no comparison in my mind.

[birch]

Miroku made 1892 rifles are as fine as they get.

[The Ozzman]

Hi Birch; do the Miroku ones have the safety button and rebounding hammer etc? I agree in regard to fit and finish and overall quality, but I am not a fan of the additional safety features. Hence my owning a Rossi.

Would be cool if there was a manufacturer with the traditional half cock safety (nothing else) and the fit and finish of Miroku/Winchester!

[chuckerbird]

I own two Miroku/Winchester '92's. 357 and 44/40. Both have the rebounding hammer and tang mounted safety. Both have been flawless. Have fired every round I've put through them. Like Greg S said you get what you pay for.

[Greg S]

Ozz, to castrait the Lawyerized rebounding hammer strut is easy. Simple 5 min job with a cut off wheel and clipping the mainspring about 3.5 to 4 coils. The tang mounted safety can be deleted and doesn't effect the normal operation of the rifle like the rebounding hammer does. Some folks has removed the parts and tigged the windows over but requires a reblue.

[The Ozzman]

Thanks Greg.

Thats good to know. That being the case my next 1892 might be a Winchester/Miroku. I have not yet owned one but the one I used a few times had a very stiff mainspring that required the gun be unshouldered to get more leverage on the lever. Was overall stiff and tight, but I imagine your advice would resolve much of that, as would a regular 1892 action job.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Would be cool if there was a manufacturer with the traditional half cock safety (nothing else) and the fit and finish of Miroku/Winchester!

The Miroku/Brownings are exactly what you are looking for.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/1729b46b089046b50cefbfdbf59ede7e.jpg
I have also heard that the Pedersoli lever actions are very nice and only have the traditional 1/2 safety.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk