45 colt loads for Marlin 1894 CB

[Jcduff936]

I have been trying to find an accurate load for my Marlin 1894 CB and my Ruger Blackhawk, both in 45 colt. I just sent off my cylinder to Doug Guy so that he can work his magic. I'm open to any advice that you can offer. In case you're wondering, I have been researching this for months, I just haven't had very good results.

The powders that I have available are Bullseye, IMR 4227, Titegroup, H110, Trailboss, Longshot, Universal Clays, Hi-Skor 800-x, and Reloader 7. I have CCI 300 and 350 primers as well as Winchesters. My boolits are a .452 255 gr SWC from Straight Shooters Cast Bullet Company ( very very affordable) and my own cast from a Lee 255 RF mold also sized at .452. These drop at .452-453 and weigh about 256-258 gr with a mixture of COWW, old fishing weights, SOWW, and 20/1. All of the boolits are pretty well uniform.

I would love to have a load that works great in both but I can work with separate loads. I'm not a fan of huge muzzle blast and super heavy recoil and I don't really need the velocity of a magnum. Anything above 8-900 is plenty which is super easy to achieve out of the long barrel. I've only been able to achieve 3-4" groups at best at 100 yards. This is with a scope so I would like to get in the 1-2" range. I don't know how accurate these rifles are in a 45colt. Maybe I'm expecting to much.

Thanks for any help that you can offer.

[GoodOlBoy]

The Lee 255 RF should work just fine. I always get better accuracy at 100 yards out of a RNFP design than a SWC, or Keith, but I'm talking about inches not feet. You want to lean towards softer lead because remember you aren't pushing these fast and hard. Also consider trying the .453s as dropped to see what kind of accuracy you get. I have better results with slightly larger diameter bullets. I've had very good results with both Unique, and Trail Boss. 800-900 fps out of a handgun is a cowboy load, and should be plenty darned accurate. Yes you will get more out of the longer barrel of the rifle, but you still aren't going to see alot of recoil and noise compared to folks trying to magnum-ize the 45 long colt. Stick with regular large pistol primers, and make sure you have a good roll crimp. Also I've got to say I am not having great accuracy results with PC'd bullets compared to lubed, or tumble lubed. Again I'm not talking about horrible results, just not as good results. Unfortunately I have to use PC'd for a couple more years because of the risks associated with having cancer a couple of years ago and not being allowed to handle lead. Anyway it's just me, but I would consider pulling the scope off, using iron sights, and moving in to 50-75 yards as you test loads. Once you are cutting holes, and making clover leafs then it's time to start testing the loads farther out.

Once you have a "decent" load get off of the bullseye targets. I know that it sounds crazy to some folks but also what I found to help with my accuracy issues was to start playing games with my shooting. My favorite is taping up playing cards and working on cutting out hearts, clubs, etc. Sometimes I find that just working a bullseye just frustrates me. Also remember shooting cans is fun. So often we chase the accuracy goals that we forget why. Make it fun. Safe, but fun.

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy

[Jcduff936]

Thanks for the advice. When I started reloading several years ago, I was using an old 30-30 with open sights. I shot from different positions over and over pushing myself and it truly made me a much better shooter and reloader. I've reloading quite a bit since then, mainly for rifles, but always with Jacketed bullets. I've never had trouble with any rifle getting less than 2" groups at 100 yards. I've gotten 1/4" groups out of a '94 30-30 with a 110 gr HP and my 7.62x39 will throw an entire magazine into a group of 1 1/2" when I'm shooting as fast as I can get the crosshair back onto the paper. I'm just saying, this is the first time I have thrown groups in the range of 3-14" with any handload out of any rifle. Even my cheap ML will shoot under 2" at 175 yards.

The only thing new is the cast boolits and 45 colt caliber. I've loaded a few (maybe 200) jacketed at high velocity. A few over the 2000 fps mark were enough for me to know that I wasn't going to enjoy load development and if they're painful out of a rifle, I don't want to try them in the Blackhawk. I am not opposed to mid level loads or even higher as both guns will handle the pressure. I don't need that kinda horsepower, and I can shoot faster when hunting with lower recoil loads. The lower muzzle blast seems to help with spooking the hogs making it easier to get more than one. And I don't have a lube sizer so I'm currently tumble lubing with 45-45-10. I tried powder coating but have found it hard to control the thickness without using the PC gun which I don't have. I'm sure this is the problem that your having. It's kinda like a jacket of varied thickness. Once the boolit is sized, whether from sizer or barrel, the center and the balance point are off. I have an old Hornady manual that illustrates this and I was reminded of it when I started PCing. I would try a gun applicator or better quality PC.

Aside from that, I don't mind raising the pressures if that's what it's going to take to get accuracy. I've got two 44 mag rifles (Ruger 44 Magnum and H&R) that I have shot quite a bit with factory ammo stuffed with JHP and they both shoot under 2".

I have just started trying Universal Clays because I read that it was almost identical to Unique but cleaner. Maybe I got a bad batch, but I have gotten 940-975 fps ( in the Blackhawk) with 7.8 to 8.0 gr compared to others getting slightly less fps with 9 gr Unique. It is also very dirty compared to some of the other powders that I've tried so far. Hodgdon list 7.8 as Max and will not give information on higher pressure loads with this powder. Ironically, they show data for Titegroup from mouse fart to cannon loads. I'm not enthused about running a fast powder at super high pressure to get modest velocity but if someone tells me that this is the magic ticket, I'll try it. I haven't tried Trailboss yet but I love it out of my 270 with 100 gr bullets and the 30-30 with 170 gr cast. Someone mentioned using Reloder 7 in something I read but didn't give particulars, just that they never achieved their desired velocity. This powder is super accurate out of 7.62x39.

I'm just hoping someone has some words of wisdom that could save me a few pounds of powder and a ton of lead. Most of my focus has been on the BH loads but I really like this gun and having it chambered to match my revolver is pretty nice, but I need it to be more accurate than my bow. Again, thanks for any advice.

[blackbike]

When you get it back, check your cylinder/boolit fit first.
Then I would try WLP over IMR4227 and the best fitting boolit.
bb

[GoodOlBoy]

I honestly think you are on the right track. You shouldn't need to push past cowboy loads in order to get good accuracy. I agree with you I am not a fan of "thumper" loads that are cannon blast loud and hurt on both ends of the gun. I will say that I love the 45 long colt, but I did find it easier to dial in Marlin 336 in 30-30 than I initially did on my 45 long colt carbine.

If I may make a suggestion that I was reluctant to make initially because I don't want to offend, and some folks take offense very easily. Please don't take offense it isn't meant that way.

Try these bullets from Rim Rock bullets. $52 per 500 plus USPS flat rate shipping (and they will ship up to three sets of 500 in one flat rate box). https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/cb-45-lc-250-gr-rnfp-per-500.html

OR

The same basic bullet from Missouri Bullet Company at $51 per 500 plus shipping (I don't remember their shipping costs) http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=49&category=5&secondary=17&keywords=

This will eliminate anything going on with a wonky yet unrealized mold, OR lube, OR alloy, OR size, OR etc. The 250 grain RNFP design I have seen work in MORE 45 long colt guns than any other. BHN is 15 on the Rimrock, and 12 on the Missouri. What this will do is give you a uniform sized and lubed bullet with a uniform harness. Once you have one of these two dialed in it shouldn't be a leap to then be able to tweak your own cast bullets to do the job. And let me tell you I have shot bullets from both companies. Both are great, both are consistent, AND both will knock a deer down at 100 yards like it was hit with a sledgehammer when used with cowboy speed loads. IE very light recoil and report.

Again I can't stress enough, and people argue this but I am just giving you my experience, the 45 long colt is PICKY about crimp. A good roll crimp into the crimp groove will serve you as good or better than a hundred other tweaks. Also forget about bore riding, bullet jumping, and other theories passed around for now. The 45 long colt has been jumping cylinder gaps and chamber to bore gaps since 1872 and still been accurate.

Additionally the two guns you have are as fine a gun as you are ever going to find, bar none. You have every reason to expect the accuracy you are asking for out of the rifle with ease, and the handgun with practice. I think the problem, in all honesty, is going to come down to a single factor somewhere. That's the main reason I am suggesting buying bullets from one of those two sources. That eliminates the whole question of the bullet and puts the focus back on crimp, case, primer, and powder. Once you get that load and get it dialed in I can tell you from experience you are going to write it down somewhere and hold it as dear as the guns themselves.

I don't share load data because I can't expect that everybody who ever reads this will reload responsibly, even though a vast majority of the reloaders and casters on this board are the best around. But I will say this. In all honesty there is really only one load that I use anymore. It goes as follows. 250 Grain cast lead RNFP. Trail Boss using a custom dipper I made that I measure out by volume. CCI Large Pistol Primer (or Remington will do in a pinch). 45 long colt brass all trimmed using a old fashioned lee ball cutter with 45 long colt guide; and a Lee classic loader in 45 long colt to size, load, and form the roll crimp. I can hit whatever I am aiming at with this load, and I've quite literally had it go through both sides of a full grown whitetail deer at 75 yards.

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy

[Ken in Iowa]

Sound advice above!

Dad and I shoot a lot of 45 Colt in both rifles and revolvers. We found .454 boolits to be the most accurate. Dads Rugers had the throats reamed to about .4535" and the difference was dramatic. As was suggested, try the 255 Lee boolits as cast. Just tumble in 45-45-10 and load them.

Of the powders mentioned, Trailboss will be great for light to medium loads, Universal for hot loads and Bullseye useful across the spectrum.

Boolits don't need to be hard. 8-10 BHN is optimal and 12 is fine too.

We shot many hundreds of Missouri Bullet 250 RNFP Cowboy bullets with complete satisfaction. I cast my own now.

45 Colt tends to be dirty. There have been quite a few threads on that subject.

Have fun!

[USSR]

When you get it back, check your cylinder/boolit fit first.
Then I would try WLP over IMR4227 and the best fitting boolit.
bb

+1.

Don