Battery Lead Opinion Needed

[Uncle Chan]

About 20 years ago, my father in-law tore about several dozen batteries and smelted the lead into ingots. I estimate that he has about 500lbs. He's done all of the hard work. He wants to give me the lead for casting bullets.

Should I? 20 years ago there weren't so many "additives" to the batteries like today. AND, the smelting has already been done.

Recommendations?

[rigmarol]

That's a tough one without actually seeing what he has. But I "think" if they have already been made into ingots there "shouldn't" be anything but lead to worry about, but then we don't really know what his process was or if he actually got everything out and made true lead only ingots. I'd say if they were free, and you work outdoors it might be worth a try at least.

If you are just starting out in casting, I'd certainly set them aside and got back to them after you have some experience under your belt so that in case things aren't right with that material, you'll be able to recognize it based on experience.

Worst you can do is have to toss it out later.

[runfiverun]

that is good advice rigmarol gave you there

WELCOME to the site both of you jump in and have fun check out the chat room in the evenings.

[HeavyMetal]

In this case I'd haul this stuff to a recycler and let them buy it from me! Even 20 years ago there was to much "other" stuff in batteries.

Go to a recycler you don't really use often and sell it to them as plain old lead. A big yard will sell it to someone who will figure out what it is so they can use it! Don't volunteer any more information than you need to but the odds are they'll figure it out before you're done with the deal.

Then take the cash and go buy wheel weights from a known source! A recycler you usually deal with or the local tire shop.

Batteries are bad news, for boolit casters, no matter how old they are. With all due respect to your Father in law I know for a fact dealing with batteries is way different than dealing with wheel weights. I deal with two battery recyclers here in L.A. and getting the alloy's seperated right is quite the production!

[uncle joe]

Actually junk yards want the lead out of batteries because it is as close to straight lead as they get. I talked to one the other day about wheel weights and he said they would rather have battery lead and they didn't usually buy wheel weights. However I would probably use the lead. I have an old battery at work I'm thinking about using the lead from. just wash it off with a little diluted ammonia to neutralize anything on the surface of the plates and dry and smelt.

[jack19512]

I have asked this very question in the past about using batteries for a source of lead and was always told not to use it. Don't know how much difference there is between batteries from 20 years ago though.

[357maximum]

I would very cautiously try it....but I never throw nothing away. I have lead from my granddad that I am sure came out of batteries before I was even a glimmer in his boys eyes. I use it for 32mag and 38 special...never had an issue...just mixed in some ww to make it a tinge harder then let her fly. YMMV

[idahoron]

I got some ingots from a guy on Ebay, I wanted it for my Muzzleloader. The stuff was VERY HARD! I got a Cabin Tree tester because I was tired of getting "pure lead" that was too hard to get down the barrel. The Lead from Ebay was 22 BHN. I asked the seller and he said it was melted down batterys.
For a centerfire this lead would be great. I can't get it down a ML. The Battery lead I have is hard. Ron

[Tom Herman]

I have an old battery at work I'm thinking about using the lead from. just wash it off with a little diluted ammonia to neutralize anything on the surface of the plates and dry and smelt.

Hi Joe,

Do yourself a favor and forget about it. While you can indeed neutralize the acid on the plates, I wonder how deep the acid has gone, and you might have to actually let the crap soak for a while.
The biggie here is the battery alloy itself: Expect Arsenic and Calcium to be present. The battery develops a LOT of slag and dross. That's where the rub comes in! The dross material will react with water to for AsH3, or Arsine gas, which is HIGHLY POISONOUS!
You couldn't PAY me any amount of money to work with batteries. It would literally have to be a life and death matter, because that's what it would be.
That being said, I did latch onto 300 pounds of ingots destined for batteries. I don't know if it's grid material, but the stuff is nearly dead soft.
The big thing here is that I'm essentially remelting lead, and not dealing with all the other crap. There is no acid residue, nor huge piles of Lead Peroxide or Lead Sulphate being created. What little dross is generated is bagged, and goes right into the garbage after the casting session is over, so no potentially gas emitting waste ever comes into the house.
In short, be doggone careful! Pass that battery up, and see if you can make a deal with the scrap yard where they will give you some lead for each battery you haul in. That would be as close to a "win win" situation as you can get with batteries.
Be safe, and Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[hershey]

thanx for the specifics on the batteries, i have probably half a ton or so sitting out back, i pretty much decided i wasn't gonna extract the lead because of all the warnings i'd read, but now i understand why not to. i am waiting for the battery price to take a jump up and then i'll cash out, a couple of years ago a scrap yard offered $1 a pound on earth day, boy was that a happy wallet day for me, i am patiently waiting for another opportunity like that.

[Bent Ramrod]

If it was me, I'd use the lead. I'd check it first for hardness and if soft, use it for muzzleloader balls/BPC boolits; if hard, for smokeless pistol and rifle.

If the lead has sat out for 20 years, all the more reactive metals (if there ever were any) will be long oxidized. All the useless oxides, sulfates , plastic and remaining acid would have been separated out when the stuff was melted down (and a jolly mess that must have been). Any other elements I would judge would not be volatile enough at casting temperatures to do anything, unless maybe I was to hang my nose over the pot and huff. (I cast out on the back remada, outdoors but under a sunroof.)

There is usable lead in storage batteries; it just isn't cost effective or practical right now (with all the environmental and liability laws) to bother with it as long as there is range scrap, wheelweights and other sources. However, if it's already been melted out, I myself wouldn't hesitate to go for it.

[Tom W.]

Since the stuff is already in ingots, there should be no harm. I've gotten several 60 lb. ingots from Saunders Lead in Troy, Alabama. They recycle old batteries. The lead is as soft as it can be.

I would not recommend smelting batteries yourself.

Mind you this is my experience.......

[docone31]

Oh, man. Batteries.
I once had a boat, before my divorce, and the marina had batteries. I struck a deal with the owner and hauled off the batteries. I thought I had the moter lode!
Wrong!
Most of the terminals were zinc, and the plates were lead sulphate. I didn't know.
So, there I was with a pile of batteries. I tried melting some of the plates and it just doesn't provide much lead. I had another friend who had a scrap yard he was selling, and he let me put the batteries there.
Never mind what the acid did to the paint in my truck bed. At least I got rid of them.
The older six volt batteries were definately lead. The 12 volt, you are really on your own.
If they are in ingot form, that is different. Making batteries into ingot....... prepare for some real work, not to mention disposing of the acid and cases.
I learned that one.

[buck1]

STOP !! dont do it. batery lead contains VERY TOXIC STUFF!! It is common knowlage -NOT TO EVEN TRY TO MELT IT-!! SCRAP IT!!

[jhalcott]

I agree with the idea to NOT smelt the batteries. In THIS case how ever , the lead is already in INGOT form. There fore, I'd use it. 500 pounds of lead is hard to throw away. I'd check it's hardness and add what ever is needed to make the bullets I'm going to shoot! It's 20 years old and it would take tons of NEW batteries to get that much lead.

[longbow]

I have used battery lead for bullets with no issue except they were softer than wheelweights.

I am not sure of battery grid alloys used through the years but I do know that soft lead, calcium lead and antimonial lead have been used. I asked the process engineer at the lead smelter I work at whether there was any danger to melting and using calcium lead for bullets - the answer was "no".

I certainly didn't have any problems other than the work involved and being careful emptying the sulphuric acid from the batteries then separating the lead sulphate packed in the grids. No zinc terminals on the bateries I have.

Was it worth the effort to drain the batteries, cut them appart, separate the grids from the casing and get the lead sulphate out? No, if you have a better source of lead or wheelweights.

Unfortunately for me I live in a small town so have limited access to wheelweights and I work for a lead smelter but am not allowed to buy product!

In your case, all the hard and potentially dangerous work has been done. I would use the lead.

Longbow

[lathesmith]

Since this stuff is already ingotized, like others have said the nasty,dangerous, and time-consuming work is done. I have used this kind of lead in the past, and like 357maximum I mixed it with other lead and it worked fine.

I would NOT recommend getting batteries and then attempting to cut them apart and smelting them. This is a fool's game--and you could wind up a DEAD(or worse!) fool for trying that.
lathesmith

[Southern Son]

Longbow,
worked for a lead smelter and you were not allowed to buy the lead? That is as stupid as me living in Broken Hill years ago and not being able to locate a single source of leave. The town exists to MINE LEAD.

[DLCTEX]

I recently sold junk batteries for $7 to $9 each. I think that will buy more lead than you can smelt out of them. DALE

[Down South]

I recently sold junk batteries for $7 to $9 each. I think that will buy more lead than you can smelt out of them. DALE
A buddy of mine told me that he was getting $25-$30 a piece for the large tractor batteries and around $10 for car batteries just a few months ago. Sell the battereis and then buy WW or lead.

[357maximum]

A buddy of mine told me that he was getting $25-$30 a piece for the large tractor batteries and around $10 for car batteries just a few months ago. Sell the battereis and then buy WW or lead.



HE DOES NOT HAVE BATTERIES....HE HAS PRE-IGNOTIZED LEAD THAT HAPPENED TO COME FROM A BATTERY....AND YES I MEANT TO YELL.

[Down South]

No need to yell. The thread did start off with ingots from batteries and I’m not sure if they are safe to use or not. If they were properly smelted as we say, then I would think the dangerous impurities would be long gone.
The thread does have a few questions/comments on salvaging battery lead and that was the reason for my post.

[Tom Herman]

About 20 years ago, my father in-law tore about several dozen batteries and smelted the lead into ingots. I estimate that he has about 500lbs. He's done all of the hard work. He wants to give me the lead for casting bullets.

Should I? 20 years ago there weren't so many "additives" to the batteries like today. AND, the smelting has already been done.

Recommendations?

Uncle C,

My earlier posting was geared towards strongly discouraging folks from pulling apart batteries.
Since your FIL already did the dirty work 20 years ago, the material should be good and safe to use. In that amount of time, I concur that any oxidizing agents are most likely long since gone.
Remember that I'm also using grid alloy, but the stuff I have never made it into the battery, so it has no acidic contamination.
Also remember that the problem is with the dross: That's where the crap goes and it gets finely dispersed, so it's much more reactive.
My flux generates slag that is hygroscopic (absorbs water), so it could quickly oxidize any Calcium present and thus turn Arsenic and Antimony into Arsine and Stibine respectively.
Bottom line: Cast outdoors, keep the dross outside and away from the house, and get rid of it as quickly as possible, and you should be just fine.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[copdills]

Tagged for information, Thanks

[konaaahbend]

The problem with batteries isn't just the acid, that could be neutralized. The real harm is from arsine gas created each time you melt the lead. This is the same stuff used in WWI by the Germans and it takes very few ppm to kill. There is no easy or safe way around it. This arsenic by itself is bad enough but throw in the other compounds and you've got a fer sure trip to the hospital, maybe not today but someday ! Never use batteries, no matter how tempting !

[Gerry N.]

There is so much toxic material in battery plates that I wouldn't melt or use them on a bet. Calcium, cadmium, and arsenic are just some of the toxics in it. Of course you can do as you wish, but metallic poisoning is no joke. See if you can sell it, or trade it for wheelweights or known lead alloys. In this case, it's much better to be safe than sorry.

Gerry N.

[Ricochet]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=40769

[canebreaker]

I melted 5 newer batteries in a bonfire. About a month later I found about 1/2 coffee can of lead. Not worth the trouble! Take a hammer and beat the terminals off and melt them down.
After lead is melted most chemicals are cooked out. I've used the lead for boolits, sinkers and other molding projects. I use alum., brass and steel molds and no reaction to the chemicals on any of them.
Trade-ins, you get 5. to 10. for the old ones. Selling, you get 1. to 5. each.

[cbrick]

After lead is melted most chemicals are cooked out.

I think we have a little mis-understanding here. The problem isn't chemicals, the problem is heavy metals that when combined by heating create gasses such as arsine. Heavy metals are not "cooked out".

You of course are welcome to make all sinkers you wish but for others considering the use of batteries I highly suggest you go to post #27 by Ricochet and click on the link. Not only read it but study it and then consider if you still would like to melt batteries for the lead.

Rick

[geargnasher]

+++1 Ricochet and Rick, many don't understand the chemisty and are endangering themselves, bigtime.

Just 'cause the batteries got melted down to nice pretty ingots and the acid and trash are gone, doesn't mean they're anywhere near safe.

I had 20 automotive batteries accumulated, I traded them to a sometime scrap man for the equivalent scrap value of some old pure roll flashing he had. I use old battery cable terminals from work in my Heinz-57 plinking mixes because they are high-antimony alloy and stiffen up soft range scrap a bit, but I won't even use battery posts in my mix.

Gear