Texas considering program for poisoning hogs

[richhodg66]

Saw this today. I understand they're a problem, but not a fan of poisons for a lot of reasons.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fearing-feral-hog-apocalypse-texas-approves-drastic-measures/ar-AAnbswK?li=BBnb7Kz

[toallmy]

There are always unintended consequences with using poison .

[DanishM1Garand]

Feral hogs have a direct link to hunting. Ban the hunting of feral hogs and place a bounty on trapped hogs and the problem of hogs being introduced to areas would cease.

[NavyVet1959]

You have the people complaining that the hogs are destroying their property, but then when you offer to help them out and hunt them, they want money to let you hunt on their land. It's just a bit two faced as far as I'm concerned. If you truly believe they are a problem, then you should be welcoming anyone who would help you get rid of them. If you're trying to make money off of them, quit complaining.

[BK7saum]

I don't see how normal hunting practices will solve the problem anyway unless you're hunting 24/7. Once they are hunted during the day, they go nocturnal if they weren't already. In areas of thick woods and cover, accessing them is difficult to say the least.

I agree with your comment regarding landowners complaining about the hogs, then wanting to charge an arm and a leg to hunt them. I find more and more landowners hesitant to grant permission, fee or not, due to property being mistreated by folks leaving trash, gates open, driving the property when muddy, etc. So while they complain, they are also concerned that their property will be damaged/trashed by folks wanting to come hunt.

I would not want to see them poisoned, but that is way cheaper than flying property with helicopter to eradicate them that way. A lot of property here is small parcels, 40-160 acres with some larger ranches in some places. So whIle you can shoot some on your property, they cross the fence and move to the neighbors. Also, once shot at a time or two, they move out for a few weeks and you might not see them again for 6 weeks to 6 months.

[OS OK]

This might tell a little different story...

JAGER PRO™ Thermal Hog Hunting (4)- 13 Hogs in One Night (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLp6DQjDjxw)
WILD BOAR HUNTING WITH THERMAL GRAPHIC 25 KILLS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbGlwEQxTAY)
Thermal Hog Hunt - 26 Hogs in 1 night (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtVC-FJ-LMc)
93 Hogs Down: Night hunting with the Armasight Zeus Pro 640 50mm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvLRmp_7ktw)

The web is loaded with such hunts...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hog+hunting+with+night+vision +scope+

[BK7saum]

I've seen the videos. In non agricultural areas, you don't have wide open fields to hunt. Then it is one or two pigs at a time / night.

[BK7saum]

I imagine that those are 1-10% hunts. They only happen 1-10% of the time and on newly hunted areas.

[bob208]

I agree with navy vet. what to charge you to help them. don't complain then.

[NavyVet1959]

I agree with navy vet. what to charge you to help them. don't complain then.

LANDOWNER: "Woe is me, the hogs are destroying my crops. The government should do something about this!"
HUNTER: "Well, I could come by this weekend and shoot some for you..."
LANDOWNER: "That'll be $500 per day..."

You can't have it both ways. Complain and accept free help or don't complain and feel free to make money off of them. Don't be a hypocrite...

[dragon813gt]

I understand the landowner's problems. Both w/ the pests and the hunters. While I'm not a landowner I have access to a farm close to my house. The amount of problems from other hunters has been numerous over the years. From leaving trash to putting bullets through the barn. IMO they shouldn't charge if they want the hogs removed. But they need some sort of vetting process for the hunters. W/ the size of ranches in Texas I can see how policing the hunters can be a major headache.

[bbogue1]

I am not in favor of the state taking an active role. By that I mean if there is a problem negatively affecting the citizenry that is too big to be handled locally then the only thing the state should do is to provide rewards for assistance to resoling the problem. Reward the behavior you want to continue and disuade the behavior you don't. Some social engineering (like HOV Lanes and light rail) projects are taken on and will never have payback some do. I agree with Navyvet and DanishM1 to some degree. Place a bounty on the hogs and reward the landowner who can prove he's allowing hog hunting on his land. Bounty and land use payments payed by the state.

[popper]

The real reason is evident in the press release. $$. State gets to cut ~$1M from budget. Real question is why the cost to begin with. Typical Austin - to many simpleton EPA/Sierra types. Live trapping hogs is not cheap & transporting them is illegal most places. Those I've heard shipping do so out of the USA only - I presume for hunting.

[Boaz]

I live in north central Texas and it's covered with hogs . But it is true property owners will not let hunters in . It could be done in an organized way to let hunters in to keep their numbers down when they get serious .

[OS OK]

I understand the landowner's problems. Both w/ the pests and the hunters. While I'm not a landowner I have access to a farm close to my house. The amount of problems from other hunters has been numerous over the years. From leaving trash to putting bullets through the barn. IMO they shouldn't charge if they want the hogs removed. But they need some sort of vetting process for the hunters. W/ the size of ranches in Texas I can see how policing the hunters can be a major headache.

Why not 'bait' the hogs and use elevated blinds? At least you could control the direction these so-called hunters shoot in. If a fella complains and won't allow hunting...well, he needs a Miracle. He could start praying to Jesus or in some cases...Mother Mary.
But use poison . . . "Not only NO, but . . . HELL NO !"

[WILCO]

You have the people complaining that the hogs are destroying their property, but then when you offer to help them out and hunt them, they want money to let you hunt on their land. It's just a bit two faced as far as I'm concerned.

It's called skin in the game. Keeps out the riff raff and helps fray the cost of property ownership. Only way around it is to buy your own land. Then you'll be able to let every Tom, Dick and Harry hunt hogs for free.

[WILCO]

I live in north central Texas and it's covered with hogs . But it is true property owners will not let hunters in .

Many reasons why the door is shut. Liability reasons are at the top of the list. Not uncommon for a hunter to shoot themselves in the foot.

[runfiverun]

they can be curtailed.
Idaho was over run with Rabbits in the 80's.
your lucky to see a rabbit now day's.

everyone got together and done drives and netting and clubbing and shot them on sight.
I have seen 3 rabbits in the last 2 years while out ground squirrel hunting.
if they want them gone they are gonna have to put out some effort.

[toallmy]

My problem with using poison is it will affect other wildlife and possibly people . As to the land owner not allowing hunters , think of it like this how many people to you allow to freely come to your home when your not there .

[Boaz]

Lot of hog trappers operating here but a lot of miles , work for little money . They don't bring much per pound . Poison would kill that effort to thin em . Pretty sure the processors will not buy potentially poisoned hogs .

[NavyVet1959]

It's called skin in the game. Keeps out the riff raff and helps fray the cost of property ownership. Only way around it is to buy your own land. Then you'll be able to let every Tom, Dick and Harry hunt hogs for free.

Apparently, you misunderstood the subject of my complaint. I see nothing wrong with a landowner charging for the use of their land. What I have a problem with is when they complain about the hogs being a problem and want the government to take action, but then when someone offers to help them, they have the nerve to want to charge the person that wants to help them. Either enjoy the hogs and what income they produce for your property or complain about them and let people that want to help you hunt for free. Just quit being two-faced about it.

[w5pv]

I chuckle ever time I see something about the state wanting to get rid of the feral hogs,around 1967,68 or 69 they said that the hogs were state property and the land owners that had been taking care of the wood hogs would no longer be able to by taking care of the owners usually had a mark registered at the county court house and they would feed them enough to keep them in a close range of their homes,they would catch the sow and castrate the little boars and mark the little guilds with their registered mark for later iding and things went to hell in a hand basket after that.There is a community east of Buna,TX and north of Orange,TX called Devils Pocket that was among if not the last that allowed wood hogs until the state of Texas said the hogs belonged to them and not the people.LOL

[starmac]

I never knew the state told them the hogs belonged to the state, I just thought they outlawed open range, which kind of made sense.

[Blackwater]

Well, a long time abo now, feral hogs were a persistent and serious problem. What was done back then, was a widespread trapping effort, plus some real woodsmen who knew hogs, shot them as well. It was simply an all-out assault on them, and we took back our farm lands that they were SO prone to ruin. Have a whole crop ruined - your income for the year for yourself and all your family - and you get VERY determined to address the problem. I think it's the determination part that is lacking today.

Farming has always been a challenging and somewhat risky proposition. It's full of challenges most urbanites will never know or understand. But again, those people from days gone by now, had GRIT, and they had it in spades, and most today look for someone ELSE to pay to cure their problems. It's just "the modern way." And much of the reason farmers have taken the steps they have, is because our litigious society has pretty well forced them back into that position. And nobody seems to want to change the litigiousness, so ..... the problems will continue, until we come to our senses and quit trying to make this world "perfect" and a "heaven on earth" where no "problems" exist, or CAN exist. Folly is folly, whatever other names we choose to call it by.

We've crippled ourselves, and then have the nerve to complain that we're crippled! As the Wicked Witch of the West said as she melted, "What a world! What a world!"

[Love Life]

I was just down on the property in Aonia, GA this weekend, and there was plenty of sign of hogs. Ground torn up, and they dug a rut in one of my roads to wallow in mud. I didn't have time to hunt any of them while there.

I don't want them on the property and have local trappers taking care of the problem for me. They can trap, shoot in the head, but no "Hunting" shots on the property. If anybody is near Aonia and wants to trap hogs, give me a holler. You can hunt with a firearm, but you must pass my accuracy requirements 1st.

[popper]

I could be wrong but IIRC, all wildlife belongs to the state, any state. Else they couldn't charge for hunting license. Same for fishing. Only exception is imported game and they are still controlled. Pretty sure the processors will not buy potentially poisoned hogs - agree. Lots of 'experiments' like the silver jumping carp that was to eliminate the weed growth in ponds. Salt Ceder to prevent erosion around streams. No real environmental studies to find results before legislation rules.
Hardworking family farming is just about gone now, most is corporate and they make the rules.

[starmac]

Popper they were not considerred wildlife back then, just open range hogs. they were worked, marked and gathered for market, and owned by individuals.
The law outlawing open range for them made sense to me anyway, and those not gathered and sold eventually went to the state as they didn't stay on the owners property.

I am curious as to what type poisin they have plans to use. Many poisins do not work on hogs.

[popper]

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Texas-Ag-Commissioner-approves-killing-feral-hogs-10950587.php
There, it is official.

[dragon813gt]

I could be wrong but IIRC, all wildlife belongs to the state, any state. Else they couldn't charge for hunting license. Same for fishing. Only exception is imported game and they are still controlled.
The animals belong to the people of the state. The licenses are to control the population sizes. We all know what would happen if there wasn't season and bag limits. This is a case of "we did it to ourselves."

[w5pv]

They are thinking of a type of warfarin(rat poison)the ones that eat it they say the fat will turn purple

[NavyVet1959]

The animals belong to the people of the state. The licenses are to control the population sizes. We all know what would happen if there wasn't season and bag limits. This is a case of "we did it to ourselves."

I don't know how long it has been this way, but for quite awhile at least, hogs have been considered a non-game animal here in Texas and there is no season or bag limit on them. You can hunt them day or night and kill as many as you want. They are a pest, nothing more.

[lonewelder]

Another great idea from the people who know whats best for us[smilie=b:

[lonewelder]

hey navy vet.where you at in the 409 area?

[starmac]

I don't know how long it has been this way, but for quite awhile at least, hogs have been considered a non-game animal here in Texas and there is no season or bag limit on them. You can hunt them day or night and kill as many as you want. They are a pest, nothing more.

Hogs have never been considered a game animal in Texas as far as I know. Iirc state residents didn't evenhave to have a hunting license, but I checked a few years ago and out of state hunters had to buy a non resident small game license.

[w5pv]

They did tell us that the hogs belonged to the state. I cannot think of the other wardens name right now.All the old timers were very upset my dad was living in the pocket at the time and I had a few head of wood hogs that free ranged,Murphy Free was one of the wardens that was enforcing it.BTW dad lived in the pocket until his death in 1984 and mother lived there until she sold the old place.all the old timers were upset to say the least.They gave us a few days to get a few of the hogs and other stock.But the Smiths,Poe,s,Williams, Pierces,Viviers and all lost some of the free ranging stock that they had.I don't think anyone lost any cows or horses.I think that one of the other wardens name was Tisdale and this was before Larry Williford took over the eastern district he may have just started being a game warden along with Forest Laughing.

[starmac]

I never knew how much time they gave folks to gather their hogs, but I knew they were theirs until the deadline.
I never knew anybody in East Texas that ran cattle open range style, might have known some, but didn't know they ran their cattle loose.

I do know even after the deadline people still trapped and sold hogs.

[NavyVet1959]

Hogs have never been considered a game animal in Texas as far as I know. Iirc state residents didn't evenhave to have a hunting license, but I checked a few years ago and out of state hunters had to buy a non resident small game license.

I think it depends upon whether you are hunting them on your own property and you are killing them to control damage to the property.

http://feralhogs.tamu.edu/frequently-asked-questions/faq/


Q. Do I need a hunting license to hunt feral hogs?
A. The answer is “it depends”. The Texas Legislature has granted landowners some relief by stating that “landowners and their designated agents” can control feral hogs causing property damage by any legal means without benefit of a hunting license. However, for those individuals that are hunting feral hogs solely for recreational purposes, a Texas hunting license is required. If in doubt, consult with the game warden assigned to the county where the control/hunting activity will take place.


Interestingly, I guess we can blame it on Hernando de Soto in the mid 1500s.



Q. Why do we have so many feral hogs now?
A. Feral hogs were first introduced into Texas by the explorer Hernando de Soto in the mid-1500’s. However, it was not until the 1980’s that populations of feral swine literally exploded across the state. The huge increase occurred as result of a “perfect storm”: Many hogs were moved and re-released during this time to provide a supplemental species for hunting as their popularity increased as a game animal. Also, in Texas it is legal to supplementally feed wildlife and to that end, Texans feed approximately 300 million pounds of corn alone to wildlife annually. Non-target species such as feral hogs and raccoons benefit greatly from the increase in nutrition this supplement provides and respond by producing more young with higher survival rates. Feral hogs are also smart-inefficient attempts to control their numbers make them wary and less susceptible to control measures and often result in the hogs becoming nocturnal. Lastly, feral hogs have a tremendous intrinsic rate of increase. Mature sows can have two litters per year and their female offspring can become sexually mature at 6 to 8 months of age and therefore are capable of producing a litter of their own before their first birthday!


I always just get the basic hunting license which costs $25 per year.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/licenses/hunting-licenses-and-permits

[Hogtamer]

LL, like to lost my life on a big oak tree in the front yard of a man's house, just to the Thomson side of Aonia church in 1974. And don't worry bout them piggies, I heard they wuz in Lincoln Co this week and a couple of 'em won't be back. They ate some poisoned 270s, exactly 1 of those little 130 gr Noslers each. [smilie=l:

[10x]

Poison has some very nasty unintended consequences.
Poison a feral hog and every scavenger that eats the hog will get sick or die. Poison can really knock a hole in wildlife populations.
As for comments about property damage from folks who are allowed on private land to hunt - I suspect that is a rare and unusuall event.
In over 40 years of allowing folks to hunt on my property I have never had damage from hunters. I have had looters go through and collect everything that looked old that they could lift. But they were not hunters.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Seems to me that there are so many hogs and they're such a destructive problem that someone would get the idea to shoot them, gut them, freeze them in a mobile refer trailer, and ship them to China for food. Win-win for everyone. Farmers get hogs under control, hunters sell meat and make money. I'm pretty sure the Chinese would be receptive to purchasing them, since they like pork and eat most everything including deep fried scorpions, etc.

[starmac]

A guy might be there a while trying to fill a reefer. lol Even if it was doable, way too many regulations for that.

[rr2241tx]

Feral hogs are smarter than Texas Agriculture Commissioners, that I'll warrant you right now. Warfarin will kill a few early on, then they will learn not to eat the bait or go near the bait stations. It will all be tax dollars down the drain. Hunting has only a temporary effect on an established population, they get smart in a hurry when hunters start showing up and they can reproduce faster than we can eat them. Thanks to the likes of ConAg and Monsanto, Texas law has officially (and falsely) declared feral hogs to be a dire threat to human and animal health and criminalized movement across county lines. That insures that the ag giants absolutely control the market supply of pork that they rear in concrete floored factories and feed on grain they produce. Vertical monopoly anyone? From a practical standpoint then any potential use of hogs not raised in a pen and fed from a trough is limited to those willing and able to kill and process their own, take it to a processor in the county where the animal was killed and pay an average of $125 to have it "processed", or break the law. You sure don't want to be stopped on the highway with a trailer full of long nosed hogs if you don't own land in that county. For a hog trap to remain effective, you have to trap the entire sounder and kill every last one in the trap. That can get to be a lot of work and isn't the least bit sporting. Controlling free ranging hogs isn't a job for snowflakes.

I can tell you from the perspective of a landowner that $500 to shoot a hog is just a polite way to give you the hint that I can't afford to have people crawling all over my place with guns randomly shooting at things they think are hogs. I just plain don't have enough days of life remaining to adequately screen potential hog hunters to sort out good ones from bad ones.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

This is a very interesting thread, because I guess someone is putting out a lot of propaganda about wild hogs. I have been given the impression that they are an agricultural plague on a par with snakehead fish and weevils, destroying crops wholesale and breeding like flies. In fact, I saw a TV show about how destructive they are and how they were even being hunted from helicopters because they are kind of hard to find by traditional stalking. The presentation showed them running through crop fields in packs of a dozen or so and they were being gunned down five and six at a time. I know that the couple of times I went hunting them in California's Los Padres National Forest back in the 1980s (they were supposed to be everywhere) we bucked a lot of brush and never saw much sign, let alone a pig. On the other hand, back in the late 1950s when I was a kid a neighbor who lived a mile away had a boar and several sows that got loose and disappeared into the forest where they seemed to subsist on the abundant acorns and occasionally showed up to raid my mother's vegetable garden. They had no fear at all of a huge dog we owned which would attempt to bite them on the rear end, but his head would just bounce off their tough hide. The four or five escaped pigs became dozens in a little over a year before the owner managed to capture them. So, what is the actual truth here? A scarce sporting animal, or a plague?

[dragon813gt]

They aren't scarce in many parts of the country. They don't live here so I won't pretend to know a lot about them. But the guys I work w/ from Texas, all over the state, say they are all over and need to be culled.

[country gent]

I despise poisons since they also affect the entire eco system. Poisons just don't discriminate and there are a lot of animanls that eat the same as the feral hogs do. Also predators and water ways can be affected. Look how poisoning ground squirels prarrie dogs and some others have back fired over the years.
Here years ago Hogs were left to run wild to help clear grounds of brush, briars, and scrub to allow it to be cleared easier. I have read where they also were left to roam to control rattle snakes.

[308Jeff]

93 Hogs Down: Night hunting with the Armasight Zeus Pro 640 50mm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvLRmp_7ktw)


Who the heck was pulling the trigger in that? Enough bad shots that I couldn't watch it.

[jonp]

There are some bad shots in that. Shooting through a thermal is not easy but he should take more care than that. Pest or no they deserve to be shot correctly and not suffer

[308Jeff]

There are some bad shots in that. Shooting through a thermal is not easy but he should take more care than that. Pest or no they deserve to be shot correctly and not suffer

Indeed.

[Stewbaby]

They should just tell the illegal aliens that if they turn in 100 feral hogs, they get amnesty...then deport them both

[NavyVet1959]

There are some bad shots in that. Shooting through a thermal is not easy but he should take more care than that. Pest or no they deserve to be shot correctly and not suffer

Well, if it is your land and they are destroying your crops and you are not planning on butchering the ones you kill, I can see how a person could just want to kill as many as possible and forget about whether it was a humane kill. Would you be as concerned if the person was killing rats, fire ants, wasps, or mosquitoes and it wasn't a quick and painless kill? We've had dogs running in packs where they would prey upon our cows giving birth, often eating the calf as it was even in the process or being born or before it has even taken its first steps. We didn't care if it was a clean kill or not, we would take the shot to kill the dogs. Hell, I actually *like* dogs, but when they are a pest that costs you money, I have no problem killing them.

[starmac]

Hogs are hord on farmers crops, bigfarmers, little farmers, they do not discriminate. In one night they can destroy a hayfield or any other crop. They love rooting out the dikes in rice fields too, and can cost a farmer thousands in one night.
As far as I know there are only two poisinous plants that affect hogs, I forget what one is but the other is cuckleburs, but only in the 3 leaf stage. You can raise hogs in a field of cuckleburs and never have any problem. They are smart enough to not eat them.

Just like coyotes, people have been hunting and trapping hogs for ever, yet their range just keeps getting bigger and bigger, like coyotes, they will never be hunted and trapped out, period.
I have a friend in New Mexico whose ranch has been invaded with them for several years, where there were never any hogs before. He flys around shooting them all the time, but can't keep up.

[Danimal45]

This is a very interesting thread, because I guess someone is putting out a lot of propaganda about wild hogs. I have been given the impression that they are an agricultural plague on a par with snakehead fish and weevils, destroying crops wholesale and breeding like flies. In fact, I saw a TV show about how destructive they are and how they were even being hunted from helicopters because they are kind of hard to find by traditional stalking. The presentation showed them running through crop fields in packs of a dozen or so and they were being gunned down five and six at a time. I know that the couple of times I went hunting them in California's Los Padres National Forest back in the 1980s (they were supposed to be everywhere) we bucked a lot of brush and never saw much sign, let alone a pig. On the other hand, back in the late 1950s when I was a kid a neighbor who lived a mile away had a boar and several sows that got loose and disappeared into the forest where they seemed to subsist on the abundant acorns and occasionally showed up to raid my mother's vegetable garden. They had no fear at all of a huge dog we owned which would attempt to bite them on the rear end, but his head would just bounce off their tough hide. The four or five escaped pigs became dozens in a little over a year before the owner managed to capture them. So, what is the actual truth here? A scarce sporting animal, or a plague?

The hogs really are a huge problem. They uproot fields while plants are just sprouting, and a single hog can plow through what would become a ton of corn in a single night. It is in the spring when planting has just happened that they can do massive damage, but other than that they still consume incredible amounts of food for their size.


In Colorado we have pretty much eliminated them. It was a combination of game damage management, and a lot of people who really really love bacon.

[Danimal45]

The land owners do not want the government to do anything. They want the government to pay them for game damages, and they want to charge hunters. It would be a win win that way. The plan is to complain, complain, create enough of a problem to force action. The action is to suggest poisoning, start the public outcry, cancel plans to poison, pay more money to landowner for game damage.

If they really want to fix the problem, make the landowner prove that they are taking in hunters and pursuing all means necessary to eliminate the problem before any state reimbursement for game damage can happen.

[Love Life]

LL, like to lost my life on a big oak tree in the front yard of a man's house, just to the Thomson side of Aonia church in 1974. And don't worry bout them piggies, I heard they wuz in Lincoln Co this week and a couple of 'em won't be back. They ate some poisoned 270s, exactly 1 of those little 130 gr Noslers each. [smilie=l:

Hmmm. If you had them in Lincoln County, and I had them down in Wilkes at the same time... Hog epidemic? Run for the hills, lol. Let me know next time you are in town and you can hunt the hogs as I want them gone.

Place sure isn't the same with Kettle Creek Arms gone.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thanks for your input, Danimal45. So, in reading this thread over there are those who say that the hogs are a big problem and should be controlled or completely eliminated, and those who seem to want to protect them for various reasons. Some consider them a game animal rather than a pest, and others wish to profit from them by selling hunting rights. No consensus here on the hogs. I'm glad that they don't seem to have reached Oregon in any large quantity, although I have heard that there are one or two areas where they exist in small numbers in the eastern part of the state.

[Love Life]

I find them to be a pest and want them gone. I don't charge trappers, and I allow hunters if they are willing to do a confirmation shoot with me present to verify their marksmanship claims.

They tear my roads and fields up, doo doo all over, wallow in my creek, and are generally a nuisance to me. I don't want hogs on my property. My kids play on that property.

[Walkingwolf]

Why not put a bounty on them? Bounties decimated the buffalo, and the wolf.

[NavyVet1959]

Why not put a bounty on them? Bounties decimated the buffalo, and the wolf.

I wasn't aware of any bounty ever put on the buffalo.

The buffalo was more susceptible to population decimation via hunting since their birth rate is considerably less than hogs. Like cattle, a buffalo is probably only going to have one offspring per year and it takes longer for it to be sexually mature than hogs.

[Blackwater]

Poison has some very nasty unintended consequences.
Poison a feral hog and every scavenger that eats the hog will get sick or die. Poison can really knock a hole in wildlife populations.
As for comments about property damage from folks who are allowed on private land to hunt - I suspect that is a rare and unusuall event.
In over 40 years of allowing folks to hunt on my property I have never had damage from hunters. I have had looters go through and collect everything that looked old that they could lift. But they were not hunters.

Actually, there is truth in this, BUT .... as always, there's some "work-arounds" even to this. Some poisons now degrade quickly, which keeps "unintended consequences" to a minimum. But many who use these, compensate by using so much that it's still a problem, so application will always make a difference.

Don't know what the status of all poisons is now, but it CAN be done in a manner that minimizes the "up the food chain" problems. Still not optimum, IMO, but since shooting of all types has become so much of a litigious thing, we cannot blame those who are seeing their livlihoods threatened and destroyed by wild hogs, for what WE have wrought upon ourselves, in allowing things to become so litigious in this land. It stalls and stops many things that might do us real good. Apparently, those who have advocated this increasing litigiousness don't know or care about the "unintended consequences" their favorite pastime brings to us all?

[Walkingwolf]

I wasn't aware of any bounty ever put on the buffalo.

The buffalo was more susceptible to population decimation via hunting since their birth rate is considerably less than hogs. Like cattle, a buffalo is probably only going to have one offspring per year and it takes longer for it to be sexually mature than hogs.

I believe the railroads had placed a bounty on buffalo, I'll have to dig to verify.


The railroads were instrumental in the slaughter of the buffalo. First buffalo were killed for food during the building of the railroads. After they were built, buffalo were killed for safety reasons, because they were in the way and sometimes pushed the trains off the tracks.

http://itbcbuffalo.com/node/22

[NavyVet1959]

I believe the railroads had placed a bounty on buffalo, I'll have to dig to verify.



http://itbcbuffalo.com/node/22

Well, the US government encouraged the killing of the buffalo so that they could control the Indians. By wiping out the buffalo herds, it made the Indians less able to be nomadic and more dependent upon the US government for the subsistence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_hunting#Military_involvement


The US Army sanctioned and actively endorsed the wholesale slaughter of bison herds.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_hunting#cite_note-14) The federal government promoted bison hunting for various reasons, to allow ranchers to range their cattle without competition from other bovines, and primarily to weaken the North American Indian population by removing their main food source and to pressure them onto the reservations during times of conflict.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_hunting#cite_note-wildlife-15)[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_hunting#cite_note-Smits94-16) Without the bison, native people of the plains were often forced to leave the land or starve to death. One of the biggest advocates of this strategy was General William Tecumseh Sherman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman). On June 26, 1869, the Army Navy Journal reported: "General Sherman remarked, in conversation the other day, that the quickest way to compel the Indians to settle down to civilized life was to send ten regiments of soldiers to the plains, with orders to shoot buffaloes until they became too scarce to support the redskins." [17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_hunting#cite_note-Smits_312.E2.80.93338-17) According to Professor David Smits: "Frustrated bluecoats, unable to deliver a punishing blow to the so-called "Hostiles,"unless they were immobilized in their winter camps, could, however, strike at a more accessible target, namely, the buffalo.That tactic also made curious sense, for in soldiers' minds the buffalo and the Plains Indian were virtually inseparable."[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_hunting#cite_note-Smits_312.E2.80.93338-17)


Buffalo cows can have a calf at 3 years of age. Hogs will have their first litter within half that time and it can be 6-8 piglets. It would take a pretty intensive hunting activity to put any sort of dent in their population growth. I suspect that for most people, a couple of hogs per year is enough to fill their freezer with all the pork they need for a year.

[Walkingwolf]

Agree, and this is what needs to happen to the feral pig population. Make it economic to take large numbers of pigs, and the numbers will drop. People can only eat so much wild pig, and it costs money to hunt them. Make it profitable, and many will make it a business. I also would think it would be great night shoot training for the national guard.

[NavyVet1959]

Just like there are "sanctuary cities" for illegal aliens, even more cities are "sanctuary cities" for feral hogs due to their ordinances about not firing a firearm in the city limits. We have our share of them that travel along the greenspace areas along the levees and creeks. In many of these areas, the levee would act as a sufficient backstop in case you miss with your shot or you overpenetrate, so the shot could still be safe. Hell, many of the cities even have ordinances against archery within their city limits, so you can't even harvest the hogs with a bow and arrow.

[HarryT]

Maybe the US military reserve units could practice field exercises against the hogs during their weekend and summer training days.

[robg]

Poisoning is not the way to do it .why not try managed driven hunting as they do in Europe ?

[308Jeff]

Maybe the US military reserve units could practice field exercises against the hogs during their weekend and summer training days.

Could be crazy enough to work.

[Walkingwolf]

IIRC the US army used cattle at one time to test ordinance.

[starmac]

Most of Texas is private land, I dont see them turning the army loose.
Hogs do not play by the rules and stay in any given piece of property, so pretty hard to do big time hunts dealing with multiple land owners.
I also doubt the poisin gets widely used for the same reasons, They can't force folks to put out poisin, only the land owners that want to use it will. I highly doubt it puts much of a dent in the population.

[Geezer in NH]

Let the TX landowner deal with them themselves is the right way

[jakharath]

Had a student worker in a wildlife/game management course tell me that we would need to kill 63% more wild hogs just to keep the current numbers in check. I know folks who kill a lot of hogs, but it is just not enough. Wild hogs do an estimated $60 million in crop damage a year.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup its not my problem and if they don't want to allow public access to hunt them I don't feel a bit sorry for them. Let them decide which is worse, open public hunting for a couple years or having there land tore up by hogs. Sure shouldn't be something the tax payers have to foot the bill for.
Let the TX landowner deal with them themselves is the right way

[44man]

Money speaks. Easier to put out feeders and charge a fortune to hunt then farm. Feeding adds to the problem too.

[Lloyd Smale]

we get people up here like that. One farmer was growing sugar beats to sell as deer feed in the fall. He got crop damage permits for the deer that were eating them before season! Not only that but they caught him selling the permits and letting people shoot the deer!!!! He ended up in court and no longer even farms. Id bet the same thing goes down there. They probably charge people to hunt them and then cry and get funds from the government because of the damage. Bottom line is they don't want them all dead. there making them money
Money speaks. Easier to put out feeders and charge a fortune to hunt then farm. Feeding adds to the problem too.

[OS OK]

Just like there are "sanctuary cities" for illegal aliens, even more cities are "sanctuary cities" for feral hogs due to their ordinances about not firing a firearm in the city limits. We have our share of them that travel along the greenspace areas along the levees and creeks. In many of these areas, the levee would act as a sufficient backstop in case you miss with your shot or you overpenetrate, so they shot could still be safe. Hell, many of the cities even have ordinances against archery within their city limits, so you can't even harvest the hogs with a bow and arrow.

C I T Y S L I C K E R S & F L A T L A N D E R S ! Leave it to them and all the open green space will be asphalt and concrete parking lots.

[hutch18414]

I have seen nearly 15 acres of freshly planted peanuts destroyed in one night in Georgia. The hogs would root right down the row eating every seed peanut planted. There were about a dozen in that herd. The next evening there were 7 of us sitting on the farmers deer stands surrounding his field. Needless to say there were less hogs when the shooting was done. The 3rd night his seed peanuts remained safe, I guess those remaining pigs went for a more lead free environment.
As one of the earlier posters here said, it won't take long before the feral pigs avoid the poison. In Europe trained hogs are used to locate truffles, some buried 6 feet deep. If they can smell a truffle that deep there is going to be no way to keep them from smelling that poison right under their nose. And hogs have one of the highest intelligence levels among animals. Any success from poison will be very short term and probably have rather disastrous effects on the downstream wildlife feeding on the carrion. Isn't it amazing how stupid some of these college edumacated environmentalists can be? Don't expect this to end well for the environment. When the hogs quit eating the bait expect coons, possums, squirrels, even turkeys to suffer severe declines in population

[NavyVet1959]

I'm thinking a concern might be that a hog gets a letal dose of poison, but hasn't died yet, but then gets shot and eaten by someone.

And then there is the issue of deer and hogs eating from the same food source...

[Walkingwolf]

I'm thinking a concern might be that a hog gets a letal dose of poison, but hasn't died yet, but then gets shot and eaten by someone.

And then there is the issue of deer and hogs eating from the same food source...

And that IMO would make the problem worse. Many people would stop hunting, the poison would probably not make a dent. A really stupid idea IMO.

Any time an animal has become endangered, or extinct it mostly has been from human hunting. The state needs to find ways to encourage more hog hunting.

[Lloyd Smale]

Maybe a good way to deal with them would be to get about 50 of your neighbors and do a drive. March through the area about 20 yards apart stagger one man with buckshot and the next with a rifle and lay them out. do it on one farm today and next weekend do another. when your done do it again. 50 guys could cut a 1000 yard swat out of the farm at a time.

[rr2241tx]

What some of you fine fellows don't seem to understand is Texas is NOT just wide open prairie, most of it is fenced private land where you have significant liability for everyone you let onto the property whether that is covering an injury to the guest, injury to other guests, livestock, etc., the list is longer than a New York lawyer's left arm. You can't just turn people loose to wander around, especially at night, there's all manner of rattlesnakes, rocks, cactus, thorny trees, livestock and predators in the pastures too. If you don't know how to stay oriented and have a pretty good idea where you're headed there's a good chance you will wander into brush and walk yourself down going in circles. There won't be any poison put out on my land, my cattle and however many of the Governor's deer live there are worth more to me than the damage the hogs do. I understand farmers may feel differently about that. The difference is I know what it takes to kill unwanted omnivores with bait, warfarin won't do it and the stuff that will is essentially nerve gas that will kill anything that investigates it. There will be lots of collateral damage if the Agriculture Commissioner gets committed to eradicating feral hogs.

[44man]

I grew up hunting and fishing and had farms to hunt all over the state of Ohio and places to shoot. I respected the land, never left trash and even cleaned up others trash. Game warden came out when we were leaving a farm and wanted to know what was in the garbage bags, told him all the cans and plastic bottles we shot, kind of set him back a little.
Than the warden that seen us clean the parking lot at the PA game lands, became a good friend when he seen Ohio plates.
As hunters we see it first hand how others are so I don't blame farmers for not wanting anyone, had my fence cut too many times when we had animals.
I feel the same about hurting myself on another property, it is my fault, not the land or farmer.
I used to hunt the property behind me until it was bought and I was banned from it. They would walk my fence, shoot squirrels on my land and climb the fence to get them, I was in a tree with my bow when they were shooting too. The jerk turned out to be a poacher too, using a rifle in archery season and letting others in to do the same and going on other properties.
There was always shooting up there in the middle of the night. He even burned down his house, But he had stashed all his guns and valuables in his barn. He once told the woman down the road he knew how to burn a house to look like electrical. Glad he is gone.

[308Jeff]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-idaho-cyanide-idUSKBN16P03Q

"A "cyanide bomb" planted by U.S. predator-control agents targeting coyotes near homes and hiking trails in Idaho exploded when a boy handled the device, injuring him and killing his dog, authorities and relatives said on Friday.
Canyon Mansfield, 14, was playing with his yellow Labrador retriever, Casey, on Thursday afternoon near his home east of Pocatello when he saw what he thought was a sprinkler head on the ground and touched the device, causing it to detonate.
The explosion sprayed the boy and his 3-year-old, 90-pound (40 kg) pet with toxic cyanide gas, according to the boy's mother, Theresa Mansfield."....