Doing the Forbidden for Informations' Sake,

[RedRiver]

Let me start this by saying we are very safe with everything we do. We hold a Federal Explosives License so we take safety seriously. So for the finger waggers, no worries here.

There is little to no information, that I have found, on the lead within a car battery. So today we cut one open, drained the acid into a bucket containing a strong baking soda solution to neutralize it. Cut one side off the battery and had the whole thing soak in another strong baking soda solution for a couple hours. Next, we will be putting the lead components into another solution to make sure it is completely safe.


Next Friday, I will put it in the cast iron outside and melt and flux, and flux, and flux some of it. The rest I will just melt and skim it. This way we will all know what is originally in it and whether or not fluxing this particular lead actually accomplishes anything.



My goal is to have the definitive answer on what is contained in the lead within a battery and what contaminants there are. I will send a sample of each off to be scanned.

The battery posts will not be included in the test because we already know they aren't "contaminated" or dangerous.

We will go through 5 pounds of baking soda before it is all done.


I am an information guy, if there is debate or flat out falsehoods, I want to know the true answer. We will see if there is cadmium or calcium contained within the lead.

[rancher1913]

very interested, have a friend with about 25 old batteries that are all busted open and the acid is long gone, they were piled behind his barn by his father and forgot about. been thinking since nobody will take them like this I might try salvaging the lead but I have been a little worried about the make up, it will be good to know what is in it.

[Bookworm]

Very interested in this myself.

Not because I would melt one down, but because I want to know.

Back in the mid-80s, I used to go to a fellow that repaired car batteries. He would cut the top off, pull out failed grids, repair ( solder in sections ?) the grids, put the battery back together, heat seal the top.

I've often wondered what became of him. He was in his 30s, but looked 60. Had a big barrel of used battery acid he would refill the batteries from. Lead battery plates everywhere. Huge holes in his clothing from the acid. Batteries and empty casings stacked every which way.

Basically, his shop/yard looked like a SuperFund site.

[M-Tecs]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?138362-Why-Car-Batteries-Are-Dangerous

[GhostHawk]

Have fun.

My experience, there is not enough salvagable lead in a battery other than the posts to be worth the trouble. But I understand sometimes you do need to learn some things the hard way.

Think you would have better luck going to the plumbing company's that do new sewer/water main lines from street to house. They remove a fair amount of lead in a year. Just need to make them a better offer than everyone else. I know I salvaged some when we had ours done some 4 years back. We also left some in the dirt which is semi tempting to go find.

[RedRiver]

I won't do it again. It it a huge hassle cutting it open and neutralizing everything for what I can see, will be about six pounds. This is just an experiment.

[Budzilla 19]

I'm an information guy also and I won't attempt this. NOT EVER! So, having said that, you help yourself sir, just post your results to this forum for the rest of us to learn from. Good luck.

[dverna]

Some things are not worth knowing

[BNE]

Thank you for doing this. I have talked to an engineer that previously worked in a battery company. Her opinion was that the dangers we read about were VERY overstated.

Please include pictures!

[JSnover]

I think it's worthwhile for someone to come up with a clear, "this is what I got" answer. I'm also glad someone else is doing it because I disagree with the OPs claim that there is "little to no information" out there.
Soon enough we'll find out who's right.
I think we'll find out that the amount of recoverable lead isn't worth the time, effort, or the risk but at least this experiment might settle the debate.

[M-Tecs]

RedRiver. I think you took my post the wrong way. I posted it to show what some of the claimed dangers are. When I started in the later 60's it was common to smelt batteries. When the newer type batteries started coming out so did the claims of increased dangers due to various metals added to lead plates. I don't know if they are real or not.

[jsizemore]

Why not cut a couple samples to have tested before you melt? You would know how deeps the water before diving in.

[runfiverun]

there is fluorine gas waiting to be released.

I would drop the idea before I even started.
never mind the newer battery's will get you a whole1.5 lbs of lead.
which you could get without all this grief.

[GARD72977]

I dont think the guy cares how much lead he is going to get. Having it tested is the real goal. The backing soda will cost more than the salvaged lead!

[6bg6ga]

Having and holding a Federal Explosives License doesn't automatically qualify you in your quest to see if what we have been preaching for years is right or wrong. The only thing it tells me is your careful around chemicals. I suggest that the poster read this thread.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Are-Dangerous

[Teddy (punchie)]

My idea with car batteries ( other ?? lead) is to get an angle iron about 6 to eight feet long. Place on slant make a place or whole in bottom to collect lead. About half way up start piling fire using wood etc. Placing battery ( of other ?? items) at or close to top. Wind (air flow) from bottom to top. Start fire at bottom with idea that the air, will make its way to other end where items to melt are. I'll be far enough way not to care what it may be giving off. Next day show up and see what's at bottom.

All in how bad you need the lead. So far no need for me to do it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think the dangers are overrated, but not entirely absent, and not consistent enough to assume that what happens with the first battery will happen with the twentieth. It is said that an aging battery can develop pockets of liquid or gas in the eroded and redeposited lead.

Countries in wartime have routinely recovered the lead from batteries for munitions use. I would think they have remote and shielded equipment which would protect the operator from spattering. I don't know of alloying materials which would be dangerous, and any chemical residues could surely be skimmed from the top. They probably have ways of recycling the acid, though, rather than neutralising it.

I wouldn't do it with less precautions, and doubt whether it is worthwhile. It doesn't directly resemble anything a person gets a federal explosives licence, but I should think its issue depends to some extent on not seeming the type to let optimism get out of hand.

[Toymaker]

There is a very large facility, maybe the largest in the country, in Sedalia, MO that processes old batteries and recycles the materials. In case the name of the town seems familiar, that's where Sierra Bullets is located too. Coincidence?

[308Jeff]

This has been done recently by Grant Thompson.


https://youtu.be/SgGhNfJfSK0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FR4sEmY-54

[jonas302]

very interested, have a friend with about 25 old batteries that are all busted open and the acid is long gone, they were piled behind his barn by his father and forgot about. been thinking since nobody will take them like this I might try salvaging the lead but I have been a little worried about the make up, it will be good to know what is in it.

Have you checked with the scrapyard those batterys are worth a little bit around here paid by the pound doesn't matter what they look like even ones that are melted and burned in a car fire used to to about 4000 pounds a year and never had one turned away

[badbob454]

ok sooo 8 lbs of lead ,approx. or $10.00 for a battery core ...

[runfiverun]

those are mini ingots.
probably less than 4 lbs.

[lightman]

It will be interesting to see your results. Be careful and Good Luck! Years ago, before the newer style batteries came along, I tried salvaging battery lead. I found it to be a high percentage of lead oxide and quickly decided it was not worth the trouble. Back then, lead was plentiful and cheap.

[MaryB]

Problem is the gasses driven off during the smelt. I hope nobody is downwind for a long ways because some of them are super toxic! The recycling places use scrubbers to keep them out of the air!

[dbosman]

The video clearly shows that the battery being dismantled is an older technology battery with removable cell vents so you can top it off with water. It's not the maintenance free type with doped plates that is reported to give off stibnine and arsine gases.

[QUOTE=308Jeff;3957911]This has been done recently by Grant Thompson.

[popper]

Those guys are total idiots. No protection, melting lead sulfide? Used to have Exide plant here but greenies chased them out.

[KenT7021]

The NRA had a warning about recovering lead from batteries in their Cast Bullet Handbook by E.H.Harrison.The danger is from the skimmed off dross.When it is exposed to moisture it forms stibine gas which has the same effect as nerve gas.I don't know if atropine would work as an antidote though.I believe there was at least one fatality when an individual opened a trash can that dross had been disposed of in.

[Outpost75]

Modern maintance-free automotive batteries are calcium-lead alloy, rather than antimonial-lead as used in larger fork-lift, marine and industrial batteries. The Ca makes it useless for our purposes due to the hea y drossing which occurs.

[RogerDat]

very interested, have a friend with about 25 old batteries that are all busted open and the acid is long gone, they were piled behind his barn by his father and forgot about. been thinking since nobody will take them like this I might try salvaging the lead but I have been a little worried about the make up, it will be good to know what is in it. Take the used batteries to a scrap yard, take the money from the scrap batteries and buy lead. You will be way ahead on how much lead you end up with and from a safety standpoint.

[6bg6ga]

That is the problem with a thread like this. It has been proven that trying to use battery lead is associated with toxic gas and chemicals. Thanks to this thread people now think its possible to try to use battery lead. Good going. I would advise those thinking about smelting the battery lead to read the thread on battery lead that I and several others put a link to. Exercise common sense and take your battery collection to the yard for money then take that money and buy good clean lead.

[DocSavage]

The frying and muffin pans look to be teflon coated,I'd be very reluctant to melt or pour molten lead into them. I second the safety concerns especially the guy wearing flip flops/sandels.

[JSnover]

That is the problem with a thread like this. It has been proven that trying to use battery lead is associated with toxic gas and chemicals. Thanks to this thread people now think its possible to try to use battery lead.
The real problem is people who insist on ignoring the wisdom, warnings and experience of others.
The OPs mind is made up, in spite of the facts. His findings will likely confirm what everyone else said. Stay tuned.

[RogerDat]

For those who can gain wisdom from the experience of others, you will probably do well in reloading if you take some care. For those of you that feel a need to pee on the electric fence to see what happens.... we want video and don't touch the flammable powders or primers and you should be safe enough.

[finstr]

Poisons and dangers aside it just seems like a lot of very messy, smelly work for what amounts to a handful of useable metal. I'll stick to wheel weights.

[sqlbullet]

All I could think about reading this thread was the old poem:

"Johnny was a chemist's son
But Johnny is no more
What Johnny thought was H20
Was H2SO4"

OP, i would strongly suggest you engage a professional hazards analysis of your endeavor.

I would further suggest that having a Federal Explosives License in no way qualifies you to understand the dangers of what you are about to attempt. This is not a concern about explosion, but a concern about harmful vapor formation and release which can be deadly or permanently debilitating to people who inhale said vapors. A masters degree in chemistry would be more apropos.

And, as has been pointed out, one of the dangerous compounds may form days, weeks or years later if the dross is kept dry and uncontaminated and then subsequently exposed to water.

I know you don't want finger wagging. But you have provided no bona-fides that indicate you are actually qualified to understand the hazards of what you are about to attempt. And worse, you have provided credentials you think qualify, but don't.

[fredj338]

Seems like a lot of work for little gain. The trade in value of used batteries seems higher than the amount of usable lead plus the effort & cost, 5# of baking soda?

[RedRiver]

Melted it down today. Was pretty breezy so no issues with fumes.

Out of probably 20 lbs of crud in the pot, I got 3 lbs of lead total. Just nowhere near enough liquid to even think of fluxing.

The ingot is purple identical color to pure lead, but smoother in appearance to stick on ingots.

Next step is sending it off to be tested.

All in all, it's nowhere near worth it for 3 lbs of lead. So if you're thinking that you have a gold mine of lead sitting around, just sell the batteries and buy your lead. But that was never the point of this experiment, the purpose of it is to see what is in the alloy, stay tuned. Should have answers next week.

[RedRiver]

And nothing about what we are doing is safe. Lead is hazardous.

Melting down hundreds of pounds of wheel weights gives me a headache, not to mention the paint of xray room lead, that is by far the worst.

Just try to mitigate the dangers and you will be fine.

[kmrra]

I have already tried this and its not worth the time , no matter how you do it

[RedRiver]

Some pictures

[bayjoe]

So if you only get 3 pounds of lead for all that work. What else is inside the battery that makes it so heavy?

[MaryB]

The acid is very heavy for the space it takes up. I worked for a feed testing lab in high school and we got in sulfuric acid in 55 gallon drums that weigh close to 800+ pounds each... add in the heavy plastic case, the lead and other metals used...

[Walter Laich]

not to take this on a detour but what would a feed testing lab need with sulfuric acid? I really don't know--not making a snarky comment

[BAGTIC]

Modern maintance-free automotive batteries are calcium-lead alloy, rather than antimonial-lead as used in larger fork-lift, marine and industrial batteries. The Ca makes it useless for our purposes due to the hea y drossing which occurs.


The calcium also makes it more easily absorbed by our bodies.

[KenH]

Melted it down today. Was pretty breezy so no issues with fumes.

Out of probably 20 lbs of crud in the pot, I got 3 lbs of lead total. Just nowhere near enough liquid to even think of fluxing.

The ingot is purple identical color to pure lead, but smoother in appearance to stick on ingots.

Next step is sending it off to be tested.

All in all, it's nowhere near worth it for 3 lbs of lead. So if you're thinking that you have a gold mine of lead sitting around, just sell the batteries and buy your lead. But that was never the point of this experiment, the purpose of it is to see what is in the alloy, stay tuned. Should have answers next week.

Looking forward to results of your test.

Ken H>

[RedRiver]

The testing guy should have gotten it today. Should have results soon.

[RedRiver]

Having him test lead, antimony, tin, calcium, phosphorus and cadmium.

[M-Tecs]

The end product would concern me far less than the claimed issues with the initial smelting fumes and the dross.

[RedRiver]

Yes, but it will show what's in it all too. Traces anyway

[C. Latch]

Tagged for learning.

[MaryB]

They used it strip the protein form feed samples then tested the dried weight of the remains against the starting weight to get the amount of protein... going from along ago memory on that so not 100%... we also used a lot of caustic soda to neutralize the acid and it came in very heavy drums also.


not to take this on a detour but what would a feed testing lab need with sulfuric acid? I really don't know--not making a snarky comment

[54bore]

there is fluorine gas waiting to be released.

I would drop the idea before I even started.
never mind the newer battery's will get you a whole1.5 lbs of lead.
which you could get without all this grief.

I'd take this advise ^

[54bore]

The acid is very heavy for the space it takes up. I worked for a feed testing lab in high school and we got in sulfuric acid in 55 gallon drums that weigh close to 800+ pounds each... add in the heavy plastic case, the lead and other metals used...

This is totally unrelated but it brought back a memory, I knew an Ole Logger that could lift a 55 Gallon drum of oil out of the back of a Crew bus and set it down, Ive known him all my life, he looked like the Hunchback, had surgery to help correct it. Carry on with battery acid

[mozeppa]

i have an old land mine that's been tripped ....but didn't go off.

i'm gonna take it apart to find out why.....anyone want video?






:kidding:

[Budzilla 19]

Mozeppa, uuuuhhhhh"..........................yeah. Lol. I just took a dozen batteries to the scrap yard, came away with $72+ for my trouble.( going to buy 120 lbs of roof jacks with the money) I WILL NOT melt a battery! But, that's just me.

[JSnover]

i have an old land mine that's been tripped ....but didn't go off.

i'm gonna take it apart to find out why.....anyone want video?






:kidding:
Aww, just toss it into your pot and melt it. What's the worst thing that could happen?

[RedRiver]

RESULTS ARE IN!

100% lead.

No antimony, stibene gas
No tin
No calcium
No cadmium
No fluoride, fluorine gas
No phosphorus, phosgene gas

[RoadBike]

Thanks for posting results. Interesting experiment.

[rancher1913]

thanks.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Poisons and dangers aside it just seems like a lot of very messy, smelly work for what amounts to a handful of useable metal. I'll stick to wheel weights.
Funny thing, I don't even like the smelly fumes from the adhesive that comes from smelting stick-on wheel weights [smilie=f:

I can't imagine the smells from cookin' up some car batteries ... :holysheep

[edp2k]

> RESULTS ARE IN!
> 100% lead.

Something smell fishy here.

100% lead?

Not even a fractional percent of *ANYTHING* else?

No SN, SB, CA, AG, impurities, nothing?

And this was tested with a recently calibrated, high quality XRF machine, checked against other known, documented samples?

So the manufacturer of this common car battery used expensive 100.000% pure lab grade lead in this battery,
with no alloying agents to help the battery survive in the rough, bumpy, pot hole environment that a car battery must live in?

Hmmm.

Well, 5 out of 6 players say that Russian roulette is perfectly safe.

[M-Tecs]

Per various battery manufactures you should see lead, calcium, tin, aluminum, selenium and antimony depending on the alloy and application.

http://battcon.com/PapersFinal2009/ClarkPaper2009FINAL_12.pdf

Plate Alloys

There are five basic plate alloys used today.
1. Pure Lead used in standby long duration batteries with low current demands
2. Lead-Antimony used for cycling applications and often for heavy equipment starting batteries
3. Lead-Calcium (dominates the U.S. market) for flooded standby and VRLA designs
4. Lead-Selenium (dominates the European market) for flooded standby and cycling applications
5. Lead-Tin for VRL

[triggerhappy243]

I have been following this post from the start........................... mainly because "I" want to hear the truth, so "I" can share it with those that are like...... I wonder if............... Now we know the rest of this story.... as Paul Harvey would say. I commend redriver for doing this, because now if someone asks me, I can tell him why he should forget about the idea. 3-4 pounds of lead for all that work? I would rather slam my hand in a car door than waste the time fooling with car batteries.

[GhostHawk]

Would appear the biggest hazard is the acid.

Still not a lot of lead in them, and a fair amount of work to get it out. Hardly worth it IMO.

[RedRiver]

No. Nowhere near worth it. But now we have a big question that has been answered.

[KenH]

No. Nowhere near worth it. But now we have a big question that has been answered.

Actually, we have the question answered for YOUR one example of a battery - NOT for all batteries in general. While I don't doubt your post of results a bit, I'm 100% sure those are the results you got from the lab, it's just hard to believe lead from a battery is that pure. Not even a trace of other elements....

Just for the record, I've melted down a goodly number of car batteries in years gone by, back when I was "young, dumb, 'n full of c..." Yes, I survived, and we both survived casting bullets on stove with no vent while cooking on the other stove eye. Doesn't mean I'd want to do it now, and I played with mercury many years ago.

Ken H>

[eremington]

if he still has any dross from this experiment it would be interesting to see what it contains

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[BNE]

> RESULTS ARE IN!
> 100% lead.

Something smell fishy here.

100% lead?

Not even a fractional percent of *ANYTHING* else?

No SN, SB, CA, AG, impurities, nothing?

And this was tested with a recently calibrated, high quality XRF machine, checked against other known, documented samples?

So the manufacturer of this common car battery used expensive 100.000% pure lab grade lead in this battery,
with no alloying agents to help the battery survive in the rough, bumpy, pot hole environment that a car battery must live in?

Hmmm.

Well, 5 out of 6 players say that Russian roulette is perfectly safe.


Calibration: Yes, by the manufacturer. Verified by one of our customers whose parts are used in mission critical military equipment.

Three Decimal places pure? Doubtful. The manufacturer claims 0.01% accuracy. I think 0.1 is more likely. (Just my opinion after running hundreds of these tests.)

The spectrum looked like any other pure lead sample. Yes, there was other "junk" present, but none large enough for the machine to report. Hence all less than 0.01%. When I specifically told the machine to look for the above mentioned elements, they all came up negative. Not just not there, negative values. Meaning Zero% measureable.

If you go back to the first post and then only look at RedRivers comments, he knew the dangers, stated he was taking precautions, and when he was done reported the results and stated it was not worth the time and effort.

I am disappointed in all the people who jumped on him for doing something they would not do. I'm of the opinion that this hobby CAN BE very dangerous, unless proper precautions are taken. For myself, I do the following religiously:
- cast under hood with a very strong ventilation system.
- use latex gloves ANY time I am in contact with lead, even if I am using coated bullets. (I even wear them under leather gloves when casting.)
- wear safety glasses.
- Only smelt outside
- thoroughly wash up before coming back into the house.
- Wear ear plugs and safety glasses when shooting.
I do all this so I can hopefully be healthy enough to pass this hobby on to my grandchildren some day.

For me, the most important thing I learned from this was that you can get more lead by taking your batteries to the scrap yard and getting cash to buy lead.

One more thought and I will get off my soap box: When you buy that lead ingot from eBay, scrap yard, other forum member.....how do you know where it really came from?

[Beagle333]

Thanks for the test. Thanks for the results. Gonna buy my lead from smelted WW on here when I need any. :D

[RedRiver]

Funny thing, I don't even like the smelly fumes from the adhesive that comes from smelting stick-on wheel weights [smilie=f:

I can't imagine the smells from cookin' up some car batteries ... :holysheep

No smell whatsoever

[MaryB]

Question is, what is in the dross? And I wonder of that was an older battery not a new one with the goofy plate chemistry.

[therealhitman]

I am disappointed in all the people who jumped on him for doing something they would not do.

My thoughts exactly.

[M-Tecs]

In the late 60's and early 70's a friend of my dads owned a road construction company. The batteries for the equipment were massive. When they went bad they were just piled in the back 40. He had very large steel burn pit. He made a system to smelt them in the burn pit. The whole batteries went in. Most were 6 volt and they seemed to have high antimony content. The lead was donated to the 7th Calvary re-enactment club I cast and reloaded for. We got about 3,000 pounds lead alloy.

The manufactures claimed todays batteries are much different. http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal2008/KimPaper2008PROOF_5.pdf I do believe the manufactures specs. Other than the acid issue until maintenance free came about melting lead from batteries was common. The warnings started with maintenance free batteries.

Based on the sample of one battery making any claims beyond that one battery is irresponsible and quite frankly if it was the common maintenance free car battery the results are highly suspect. Until the waste stream is analyzed any test is half-assed at best.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

Salvaged battery lead should be avoided at all costs. Since the advent of the maintenance free battery the lead content has been reduced and elements such as strontium, calcium and others have been added. Most of these elements cast very poorly, ruin a pot of good alloy they are blended with and are extremely toxic. The quantity and quality of lead from batteries is not worth the risk or the effort. From "Linstrum" on the Castboolits forum (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php) - Maintenance free/low maintenance batteries use calcium metal-doped lead to catalyze the hydrogen gas. The lead alloy used in batteries also contains a bit of antimony and arsenic to help harden and strengthen the lead. When hydrogen comes in contact with arsenic and antimony, the hydrogen reacts to form ammonia analogues called arsine and stibine, AsH3 and SbH3. In World War One the Germans experimented with these as war gases. As such they were highly effective since they are deadly in amounts too small to easily detect

[Peregrine]

there is fluorine gas waiting to be released.


Where does the fluorine come from?

[mozeppa]

BNE....just a question.....do you shoot?

and if you shoot do you wear latex rubber gloves to load them too?

not being snarky.

[BNE]

BNE....just a question.....do you shoot?

and if you shoot do you wear latex rubber gloves to load them too?

not being snarky.


Ok, that's funny. Yes, I'm a shooter, and no, I do not wear gloves while shooting. Don't get me wrong, I get plenty dirty, I just choose to limit my exposure when I can. I have worked with lead oxide and lead alloys off and on my whole career. It can be dangerous if simple precautions are not taken. I have performed or overseen thousands of analytical tests also.

This was not a Design Of Experiment nor was it meant to be a d DOE. It is one data point. I just get annoyed at people who snipe at someone for doing something they are not willing to do themselves.

[MaryB]

When sorting wheel weights I wear gloves. Once in ingot form I am not as fussy because it is clean lead with no oxidation on the surface to speak of.

[bajacoop]

Unless you can process in a furnace hot enough to to break down the lead sulfate paste into lead and sulfur emissions there is not enough to worry about. Places that recycle batteries for the lead are getting almost all the lead from the paste. They use a chemical reaction to go from a lead sulfate paste to a lead carbonate paste and then process in a reverb furnace and blast furnace to get the lead from the paste.

[edp2k]

> I am disappointed in all the people who jumped on him for doing something they would not do.
> I just get annoyed at people who snipe at someone for doing something they are not willing to do themselves.


Wow. Just Wow. Many people are not willing to play Russian Roulette either.


I am disappointed and annoyed by all the people:


1. who say the manufacturer is lying about what they put in their product.
why on earth would the manufacturer do that?


2. are in denial when people with knowledge and experience point out
well documented serious chemical dangers, and say these people don't
know what they are talking about. In reality these people are trying
to keep someone from getting sick or killed and they are being told they
are talking nonsense.


3. say "see, I proved every one wrong! RESULTS ARE IN!" based on a
flawed backyard stunt (0.0% impurities? really? not likely) and then
other people read that "it's SAFE!", and based on one likely flawed
data point, proceed to put themselves and innocent people around them
in danger because one person claims to be a know it all.


Remember, dross from the smelt later exposed to water can produce poison gas
days after you smelted.


> Calibration: Yes, by the manufacturer.


What counts is now, not before it left the factory.


> Verified by one of our customers whose parts are used in mission critical military equipment.


You know as well as I that being a manufacturer of "mission critical
military equipment" is no golden guarantee that everything they do,
make or test is accurate. Their equipment can go out of cal just like
everyone else's, or be used incorrectly.


They put their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else.


Trotting out the "military" buzzword is just a version of "Argument
from authority".

[leeggen]

In my opinion it is up to each of us to experment, as long as it is done safely. Many of us have used whatever powder we had on hand to down load. Some have even up loaded over max where I myself would not go to. Red River choose to do this battery exp. to prove to himself about lead batteries. From what he has posted I think he was safe in what he done. Was it worth it, even he stated no. Get off his back you were not involved you did not get exposed to any gas nor acid fumes. Thanks Red river for the expermint now I know I won't ever try it. My uncle when he was a kid used to melt them down for his dad to use. He is still alive and as old as me.
CD

[6bg6ga]

I will go on record as one that does not agree with either this thread or the reported results on this experiment. To be blunt it gives the wrong ideas. One should simply take their spent battery in and get the $12 core charge and apply this to purchasing clean good lead.

The whole idea that one can or even should try to melt down batteries is bad to the bone. Leave them to hell alone. You will understand this when you observe what can happen when trying to melt down batteries. I've seen explosions and the shrapnel a battery can throw should in itself be enough for those with a mental capacity over that of a stream rock.

Just leave then to hell alone.

[WJP]

George Burns lived to be 100 smoking all the time most of his life. God will take you when he wants to. I understand worrying about people doing this the wrong way but it's not your life on the line. No one will ever learn unless people experiment. At least it's not a nuke.

[6bg6ga]

And if it were a nuke there would be people saying go ahead and play with it nothing will happen.......boom!

[BNE]

> I am disappointed in all the people who jumped on him for doing something they would not do.
> I just get annoyed at people who snipe at someone for doing something they are not willing to do themselves.


Wow. Just Wow. Many people are not willing to play Russian Roulette either.


I am disappointed and annoyed by all the people:


1. who say the manufacturer is lying about what they put in their product.
why on earth would the manufacturer do that?


2. are in denial when people with knowledge and experience point out
well documented serious chemical dangers, and say these people don't
know what they are talking about. In reality these people are trying
to keep someone from getting sick or killed and they are being told they
are talking nonsense.


3. say "see, I proved every one wrong! RESULTS ARE IN!" based on a
flawed backyard stunt (0.0% impurities? really? not likely) and then
other people read that "it's SAFE!", and based on one likely flawed
data point, proceed to put themselves and innocent people around them
in danger because one person claims to be a know it all.


Remember, dross from the smelt later exposed to water can produce poison gas
days after you smelted.


> Calibration: Yes, by the manufacturer.


What counts is now, not before it left the factory.


> Verified by one of our customers whose parts are used in mission critical military equipment.


You know as well as I that being a manufacturer of "mission critical
military equipment" is no golden guarantee that everything they do,
make or test is accurate. Their equipment can go out of cal just like
everyone else's, or be used incorrectly.


They put their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else.


Trotting out the "military" buzzword is just a version of "Argument
from authority".


Nobody said it was safe or recommended it be done. Quite the opposite. I don't recommend it be done either. Comparisons to Russian roulette are specious.

As for the testing results, you are trying to pick an argument where one does not exist. The manufacturer comes to our facility and calibrates every 6 months. If I was not clear, I apologize.

[RedRiver]

Guys, lead...sulfuric acid...water. PERIOD!

There is no conspiracy to prove you were wrong. Lead. Sulfuric acid. Water.

[RedRiver]

This was a Wal-Mart battery bought in 2012.

[Smk SHoe]

From what I can understand from this thread. He was not trying to find out how much lead he could get out of the battery, he was trying to find out what was IN the lead. I agree that it is not safe, but he did acknowledge that in the beginning and attempted to mitigate any danger that he could foresee. I don't think RedRiver plans on melting down more batteries and I thank him for doing the experiment so I can understand better.

[deadeye ruck]

Interesting! Back in the early 90's we had the opportunity to purchase in bulk 75lb pigs of lead from reclaimed batteries from the exide corporation. It came with an analysis and was as close to pure as you could get. I sure wouldn't want to be the one "reclaiming" it but it sure benefited us.

[johnho]

I see nothing wrong with what RedRiver did. He knew the dangers and had a plan for them to make this safe. Some of the analogies are comical if they weren't ridiculous, except the land mine one, that was good. You guys do know lead is hazardous right? yet you know the hazards and know how to reduce, not eliminate, the risks. and it's ok for some guy, like me, to load up a case with 47 grains of IMr 4895 and stick a bullet in it and shoot it from my 65 YO garand or almost 100 YO 1903 while I stick my face about 8 inches from it when it goes off? It's all about measured risk and what each of accepts as the risk we want to take in everything we do. I thought it was interesting. Now I have no idea why one would want to do that but who am I to criticize? you guys ever drive on the highways in Florida? Now that's a real risk. :takinWiz:

[rbuck351]

I have never melted a battery and have no intention of doing so but I do value the findings. The part about it being to expensive and time consuming to make it worth while is worth knowing for those that don't believe the dangers involved. Thanks Red River for taking the time and effort and for posting results.

[flint45]

Back in the 70's I smelted a few batteries got some lead but not enough to make it worth tried it some years latter but just got a big mess and no real lead gave up on that idea. But I would like to see their experiment.