powder measures

[carpetman]

Back in 67 when I started reloading,a friend recommended the Belding& Mull powder measure. The thing was new but looked antique even back then. I have never used any other measure,so can't compare. Have read many times on several boards about certain powders that did not meter well in one type or the other powder measure. I have used all types of powder in my B&M and never found one it wont throw consistent charges of. Go to EBAY and do a search for Belding & Mull and these measures do show up there---but they are pricey.

[longhorn]

I've only heard good things about the B&M, but have never used one-I will note that the current issue of the Black Powder Cartridge News has a review of the new version of the B&M, somewhat (?) redesigned, from Montana Vintage Arms. ..."extremely superior performance." $189.oo plus shipping and handling. I count 7 different measures in my reloading room, and I don't think the phrase -extremely superior performance- would apply to any of 'em. Something else to save my pennies for, I guess.

[carpetman]

Longhorn---I don't know what the difference in the new version of the Belding & Mull vs the old would be?????? Those Ive seen on EBAY have gone for less than $189 and there really isn't a whole lot to wear out on one of them. What town in the Hill Country? Did you perhaps go to UT and if so,know any Aggie jokes?

[floodgate]

Carpetman (Welcome Back!!!) & Longhorn:

On the B & M Visible Powder Measure, the only differences I am aware of are (a) the replacement of the brass hopper on the older ones with a transparent plastic one, (b) the addition of an extra-length "super magnum" charge tube, and (3) the unholy increase in the prices (my 1968-69 B & M catalog lists the VPM at $14.50 plus another $16.50 for the Micrometer Magnum tube). I finally tuned up my old one with a repair kit (new glass window, screws and washers) from Buffalo and tried it out with AA5744 a couple of weeks ago, loading .45-70 for a local Quigley match. (DON"T ASK! At least I wasn't dead last.). I was only able to hold it to +/- 0.2 grs. at 25 grs; I expected better with that nice, easy-flowing powder, but it may have been my lousy technique; also, the clamp didn't hold it real tight to my powder shelf, and the leverage of the operating handle made it wobble back and forth, especially as powder dust built up under the sliding cavity block. I actually got about identical results with my early Lyman-made Ideal No. 5. Fun, though! (Gotta justify buying those old antiques some way!)

floodgate

[carpetman]

Floodgate---Thanks for the welcome. Back in 67 when I bought my B&M powder measure,they did have a magnum charge tube available as an accessory. I don't recall the price and don't don't recall it being higher priced than the measure itself. Seems around $15.00 and I thought $3.50 for the magnum tube??? 30-06 didn't require the magnum tube so I didn't have need for one. You are correct that they are bad to work loose. I mounted metal strips to either side of mine to prevent twising and it now stays in place. The variation you described,I would attribute to your technique. My son in law threw some charges with mine and they did vary. I threw consistent charges,and that had to have been technique and my being use to it. I once lost the lid to the hopper and auto parts store carried a brass freeze plug that was a perfect fit. I too cracked the glass window and I went to a local glass shop and they cut me a new one(no charge).

[floodgate]

Ray:

You're right, of course; I was in a hurry to get to dinner and didn't read the B & M VPM ad carefully. The $14.50 was for the measure WITH the standard, non-micrometer drop tube; $16.00 with the standard tube with the micrometer head; $15.00 with the plain Magnum tube and the $16.50 price was for the measure complete with Magnum micrometer tube. Makes the current prices even more scary. Yes, I thought about shimming the measure at the sides and will do it next time I use it. I cleaned out the slide-block channel and applied "Top-Cote" - the stuff you spray on saw tables to keep them slick - and will give it another try. The sideways lever is still hard to get used to, though, after years of using Herters', Ideals and RCBS Uniflows. It IS nice, though, to be able to see your powder charge as it moves by the window, and again, as you take out the tube to pour it into the case. But at the price ($180) of the Redding BR-30 Competition measure the rest-benchers use, the new VPM is not exactly a bargain.

floodgate

[carpetman]

Floodgate--I know you are a collector of written material. Do you have the chart that came with your B&M that gives rough guesstimate for setting to be used for various powders? I have one,but find it to be a very rough guess at best. During my add on project a year or so ago my B&M got soaked and I took it apart and cleaned it up real good. Have not used the "Top-Cote" but have to give it a try and on my table saw too. For sure add the metal strips to either side of the measure and you'll like it better,get used to it and I don't think you'll beat the accuracy of it.

[longhorn]

Carpetman-the only 2 features mentioned in the review are the threaded brass cap for the powder reservoir and accurate graduations. The most pertinent quote is probably "I say "redesigned" with some reluctance; this new measure from MVA is so much better, quality-wise and feature-wise, than the old B&M that they really aren't in the same league." Garbe's words, not mine. I don't know if it's truly better or not, but the words "redesigned" and "improved" always make me nervous. I traded a Flat-top .44 for a New Model Super Blackhawk in the mid '70's and think about that trade every time I see those words. I'm in Mills County, about a 100 miles east of you, and, yes, I was graduated from the University of Texas. No Aggie jokes, though-I spent 2 semesters enrolled there long ago, and the things that actually happened there make the jokes pretty tame in comparison. I'm glad to see your name here, too, BTW-I was a long-time lurker on both Shooters and the aimoo board, and enjoyed your posts. I will admit, though-I keep a big ole cat around as a snake alarm.

[carpetman]

Longhorn--Glad you finally came out of the closet urr uhh I mean quit lurking and started posting. Welcome aboard. What town in Mills county--maybe Goldwaite? Do you have a place to hunt? If you have room for a cat you must have room to hunt. I really don't see the hopper cap threaded as an improvement--possibly somewhat of a nuisance. My charge tube is graduated and you can dial in what you want with precision. I understand they did make a tube that was not graduated. Give a holler f you ever come to the big city.

[JDL]

After useing one for about 15 to 20 years, I find it is the best measure, by far, I've ever owned. Whenever I see the "New and Improved" line, I figgure it means, "We can make it cheaper and sell it higher" but, I don't know it that applies in this case.-JDL

[longhorn]

Yep, in Goldthwaite. The cat has room to hunt, not me. Well, I'd have to be sly about it-I jumped a _big_ 10 pointer out of the cedars less than a hundred yards from the front door last winter, but my lines of fire would be mucho restricted-scattered neighbors. It is the kind of neighborhood where 1 shot would simply go unnoticed (snakes, armadillos, etc. are pretty much fair game-) but dragging a lung-shot buck out of one of the widow ladys' front yard might excite some comment. My wife was pretty snippy about deer and deer hunting until we moved out here-and she hit her first doe in her car. Now, every fall she asks "How many of those ***'s can you kill this year?" Perspective and timing are everything in life, I guess.

[waksupi]

Speaking of deer getting thick. There is a guy across the lake, a new comer from a state I won't mention the name of, but it is on the south west coast. The neighbors saw a deer in distress, down on it's side, and obviously dying. The wardens checked it out, and determined it had been poisoned. Seems the ******* was spreading strytnine laced gopher poison out, because the deer were eating his landscape. He got a slap on the wrist. Someone needs to go put salt on all his srubbery and landscape, so there won't be any thing for them to eat. I've heard unconfirmed rumors the neighbors are making it pretty hot for him, and a new For Sale sign is in front of his place.

[carpetman]

Waksupi--I can tell you are upset about the neighbor poisoning deer. Bet if it were ewes you'd be in arms about it.

[wills]

Yep, in Goldthwaite. The cat has room to hunt, not me. Well, I'd have to be sly about it-I jumped a _big_ 10 pointer out of the cedars less than a hundred yards from the front door last winter, but my lines of fire would be mucho restricted-scattered neighbors. It is the kind of neighborhood where 1 shot would simply go unnoticed (snakes, armadillos, etc. are pretty much fair game-) but dragging a lung-shot buck out of one of the widow ladys' front yard might excite some comment. My wife was pretty snippy about deer and deer hunting until we moved out here-and she hit her first doe in her car. Now, every fall she asks "How many of those ***'s can you kill this year?" Perspective and timing are everything in life, I guess.

Where do you shoot BPCR? Ft. Chadbourne, HOTSA ?

[longhorn]

Wills-I've shot only at the Fort, and not at all for the last 18 months or so-the unending house project has really gotten in the way! Light now at the end of the tunnel, so I intend to be a much more regular attendee ("competitor" would be stretching things) from now on. I feel for anyone I get squadded with, as my spotting seems abysmal to me-guess all I can do is go practice. I did finally invest in a Waage electric pot, and it's made a vast difference in my bullet production, both rate and quality, so maybe I've got that little obstruction cleared.

[MARCORVET]

I don't know about top coat, but if you can find it, Boeshield is made for the aircraft industry, it leaves a hard, greaseless film that will prevent rust and is very slick.

[wills]

Wills-I've shot only at the Fort, and not at all for the last 18 months or so-the unending house project has really gotten in the way! Light now at the end of the tunnel, so I intend to be a much more regular attendee ("competitor" would be stretching things) from now on. I feel for anyone I get squadded with, as my spotting seems abysmal to me-guess all I can do is go practice. I did finally invest in a Waage electric pot, and it's made a vast difference in my bullet production, both rate and quality, so maybe I've got that little obstruction cleared.

I have been thinkng about one of the Lee 20# pots, but re reading some of the things Dan Theodore and others have to say about the Waage has just about convinced me to spend the money. I havent been to the range in about a year, just finished moving and am now only 18 miles from YCSA. If i can ever get unpacked and find my stuff, got to load up some rounds and get back to it.

[floodgate]

Carpetman:

Yep, I have the charts from several issues of the B & M Handbooks; you are right, they are very crude approximations, but will get you to within weighing distance of the setting you want. Note - as I have pointed out before - that on the Micrometer measures, the fine readings are discontinuous: that is, you go - say - 24.23, 24.24, and then jump to 25.00, 25.01, etc. PM me your e-mail AND street address and I'l send you the most recent chart I can dig out, depending on whether my scanner is working today.


Marcorvet:

"Top Cote" can be found in most of the "woodworkers' porn" tool catalogs, somewhere near the table saws. I suspect it is essentially the same as Boeshield.

floodgate

[carpetman]

Floodgate--Thanks for the offer of sending the B&M charts. I suspected you had such. In case you didnt,I did laminate mine back in 1967 when I got it and it is still fairly readable but I doubt would make a good print.

[tommyn]

I was cleaning up a lot of loading stuff that got put into boxes a while back and found my old B&M powder measure and cleaned the outside of brass hopper up and mounted it. I was going to sell it but darn it works so good. My bench has a Redding 3BR measure I use and also a lyman 55 for pistol powders and now I have the B&M mounted for stick powders. It does a great job and will be staying on my bench

[StarMetal]

I've mentioned this before, but we have new people now. I too have a Belding & Mull, the one and only powder measure I've ever owned. Notice, I said owned, not used. I think it's one of the best on the market. Mine even cuts coarse rifle stick powder. The one thing I had go wrong with it is the aluminum slider block got gauled up. So I cut a bronze block and milled out the cavity and cut a piece of glass for the front of it and installed it and my measure is like new again. I hand fit that bronze block too so there wasn't any loseness.

I have the micrometer metering tube. Once you weigh a particular powder you can write down the setting on the metering tube. I do this and record it in a book for future use.

Joe

[JerryW]

I have a new in box B&M last of the old ones has plastic hopper missing the charge tube. I use a brass blackpowder measure on the one on my bench. I will sell the new one for $100.00 + shipping. Jerryw

[Willbird]

I am klutzing around with an RCBS uniflow, I typically use the small drum only, and I have one of the old lyman 3 slide measures that I use for pistol stuff....I'm happy,

when you load man sized rifle ctg. 1/10 of a grain doesnt mean much anyway. also I really like hogden extreme powders and most of them come in short cut types now anyway.


Bill

[carpetman]

Willbird--Is that hogden extreme powder used for pigs only? How many hogs it take to make an extreme den?

[KCSO]

I think I have used about every kind of measure made, but after I got a Belding and Mull that is what I use for all my accuracy loads. I have a lathe so I made up a batch of measures for the B and M and put one with the load data in the die box. I also still use an old Ideal measure that I got from my father in law. The instructions say good for black or smokless powder, so it must be an old one.

[Maven]

I currently have 4 powder measures, a Lyman #55 (wi. a powder baffle added), which gets the most use; a Lee "Perfect" measure; a Forster "Benchrest" (? red wi. small red plastic hopper) and an Ohaus Du-O-Measure (got it from eBay for $15 + shipping). While I wish I owned a B & M, I have to say that the aforementioned work very well, but not with the same powders. Believe it or not, the Lyman is very repeatable, mostly because I have a notebook full of settings by powder type, e.g., IMR 3031 and weight, e.g. 29gr. The Forster is the hardest to set as the scale markings are arbitrary and sensitive. Like most measures, it likes ball powders. The Lee is OK, but no more "perfect" than the Lyman. It likes ball powders, but handles stick powders rather nicely. That shut-off valve is a nice touch too. Lastly, there's the Ohaus, which not only throws pistol powders in low doses rather accurately, but chunky milsurps such as IMR 5010 (much coarser than IMR 4350) also; i.e., within 5% accuracy. Having said [all] this, I must confess that I now use pistol powders for 99% of my CB pistol (duh!) and rifle reloading, particularly WC 820. The beauty of them is that you can use a pistol powder measure to throw the charges with complete repeatability if you first establish how many grains of a given powder each rotor throws: Much easier this way! ...Maven

[VP]

I ... use pistol powders for 99% of my CB pistol (duh!) and rifle reloading, particularly WC 820. Maven Any suggested loads for .45 Colt?

[felix]

820 is too slow except for 280 grainers and above. The powder will work better for the lighter boolits if you have really small chambers or really large diameter boolits. We are talking standard industry chambers here, not those custom smaller ones. If you have a 454 gun, then 820 powder would be much closer to ideal. ... felix

[omgb]

I bought a B and M measure two years ago and love it. It's very accurate with BP and IMR powders. Now to the Aggie joke: A Texas Aggie is walking down the street with a pig under his arm. A feller walks up and drawls, "Hey, where'd ya git that stupid looken thang?" And the pig says, "I won him at the fair".