How do you test your loads for accuracy?

[Triggernosis]

I'm just wondering what the recommended procedure is for finding out which load is most accurate in an open sight revolver if one doesn't have access to a Ransom Rest. With a rifle and optics it's pretty simple - load 3-5 rounds in about 0.2 grain increments, shoot a group with each load, and pick the load with the smallest group. However, with a revolver and open sights, how do you tell? I'm not sure I trust my hold nor my eyes with an open sighted pistol in order to shoot a decent enough group.
Do you shoot from a rest? Etc.? Etc.?
Please share your methods.

[44MAG#1]

If you don't trust yourself then will it make any difference when your firing offhand?
Try to find someone who has demonstrated he or she is a good shot and see if they will do the testing for you.
In your situation just pick a safe load out of the books and enjoy shooting.
Kinda sounds like a problem to me.

[375RUGER]

Load development on sand bags. I do initial load testing at 25-35 yds. Then it's onto 50yds when I have the load narrowed down. Shoot at whatever range you can see. 10yds, 20yds, 25yds.... Try diffferent target styles and sizes till you find something you are comfortable sighting with. Use bright colored 1-1/4" dots or post-it notes as your POA.
Most importantly, make sure the revolver rests on the bags the same and you grip the same each shot.
I usually work in .5 grain increments.

[Triggernosis]

I usually work in .5 grain increments.

0.5 grain? For my .38 Special and .32 H&R, that would only be about 2, maybe 3, different loads. Is that pretty much standard?

[reddog81]

I usually load 20 to 30 rounds for each loads. 1 load on the light side of the load data, 1 load in the middle and 1 load closer to max. For example if the range was 4 to 6 grains of powder I'd try 4.5, 5, and 5.5. If 5.5 is the most accurate than next time i'll do the same thing but use 5.2, 5.5, and 5.8.

Honestly if you can't tell the difference between the loads I would just concentrate getting to the range more and shooting rather than worrying about tweaking loads. The Lyman reloading handbooks have an accuracy load for each bullet. Using that as a starting point is probably as good as anything else.

[RogerDat]

The only accuracy that I think matters is how accurate it is the way I shoot it. I tend to shoot moderate distances (100 meters to less than 10 meters) In a two handed stance with an occasional foray into one handed DA shooting. So how well bullet performs in a Ransom of from a sand bag may mislead. Say in .357 mag a stouter load is technically more accurate but the recoil pulls my aim off more than a milder load. Or shooting a old milsurp prone rather than seated behind sand bag is a bit different, and both are different to me than free standing but the OP did ask about pistols. I suggest just shoot more of each test load. Shooting 20 or 25 rounds of each load will pretty clearly show the binary choice between better and worse. The suggestion of trying three loads is a good one. Of the three one will probably clearly be inferior. Repeat a few times and you will zero in on what works.... plus get to shoot a few hundred rounds :-)

I also ask brother in law to give it a try, he shoots more accurately than I do. If it works for him and not me then I know it is a loose nut on the grip and trigger not the load. If it ever works out the other way, that it's more accurate for me than him I'll let you and the whole world know, trust me.

[44MAG#1]

What I find unusual in the post by reddog81 is the example he gives.
Jumping from from 4.5 to 5 grains is an 11 percent increase.
Going from 5 to 5.5 is N increase of 10 percent.
Now I have been loading for close to 47 years and have heard others say this but let me ask.
If on is dealing with a 30-06 using Speer data using the 180 gr bullet with start load of 54 gr and a max of 58.
Now if one starts with 54 and jumps the same 11 percent one jumps in the example given one would jump to 59.9 gr in one jump.
How can an 11 percent jump in the example given by reddog81 and not be safe in a rifle when one is using a very fast powder compared to a rifle.
Now to go further in reddog81's example if 6 gr is max and we back off 15 percent to be safe that is 5.1 gr start.
If we jump 11 percent that would be going to 5.6 gr. We would only have left 7 percent to go to reach max.
Why such LARGE jumps in charge weight in a handgun with small charges of fast powder when in a rifle we would never think of doing so in a rifle due to safety? Even with slow powder?

[Thumbcocker]

With a gun that I have shot a lot I do initial testing at 25 yards from a Weaver stance on paper. Then 50 yards Weaver at soda cans or if I feel frisky shot shell hulls. I will do sitting back rested at 100 and 200 for loads that look good. FWIW I shoot better from sitting back rested than I do from a sandbag rest. I have never tried Creedmoor but many swear by it. I can usually tell when a load is not giving me what I am holding for. If I am having an off day I will reserve judgment on a load until I am shooting better.

[Outpost75]

In working up a handgun load, I assemble 12-shot samples with weighed charges and repeat samples in 0.1 grain increments + and - bracketing the base charge. I start from a clean, dry gun for each 12-shot series firing at 25 yards off sandbags, firing the first cylinder full from a clean, dry gun, then repeating the next cylinder full from a fouled gun.

I use a double backer system, imposing two targets,one on top of the other. After firing the first group I pull off the top target, leave the backer, reface and repeat in a fouled gun. I then measure the x, y coordinates of every shot, compute the center of impact and then the radial distance of each shot from the CI and the radial standard deviation.

Extreme spread only considers the worst two shots, and it takes a large sample of groups to compare two loads to a useful level of significance using a T test or similar method. Extreme spread reveals nothing of normality of dispersionunless evaluating a very large number of targets, which is impractical. To evaluate a load in the least number of shots you want to determine if the group is circular-normal, that is the vertical, horizontal variances being approximately equal. Comparing clean and fouled groups will tell you if bore conditioning is a factor. Firing repetitions bracking 0.1 grain in .38 Special.or .45 ACP wadcutter will help you find the "sweet" spot. If one charge seems to have promise, bracket it again and repeat.

Good wadcutters should shoot inch groups at 25 yards from a match grade pistol.

[country gent]

I test loads in increments up to just below book max or when a certain velocity is wanted to just above that level. I test over a rest and sand bags. When I find the best load for that day. I load it and each side and retest the next time out. I also use a chronograph for load development and testing, watching velocities, standard deviation numbers and extreme spreads. This can be revealing at times.

[shoot-n-lead]

In working up a handgun load, I assemble 12-shot samples with weighed charges and repeat samples in 0.1 grain increments + and - bracketing the base charge. I start from a clean, dry gun for each 12-shot series firing at 25 yards off sandbags, firing the first cylinder full from a clean, dry gun, then repeating the next cylinder full from a fouled gun.

I use a double backer system, imposing two targets,one on top of the other. After firing the first group I pull off the top target, leave the backer, reface and repeat in a fouled gun. I then measure the x, y coordinates of every shot, compute the center of impact and then the radial distance of each shot from the CI and the radial standard deviation.

Extreme spread only considers the worst two shots, and it takes a large sample of groups to compare two loads to a useful level of significance using a T test or similar method. Extreme spread reveals nothing of normality of dispersionunless evaluating a very large number of targets, which is impractical. To evaluate a load in the least number of shots you want to determine if the group is circular-normal, that is the vertical, horizontal variances being approximately equal. Comparing clean and fouled groups will tell you if bore conditioning is a factor. Firing repetitions bracking 0.1 grain in .38 Special.or .45 ACP wadcutter will help you find the "sweet" spot. If one charge seems to have promise, bracket it again and repeat.

Good wadcutters should shoot inch groups at 25 yards from a match grade pistol.

What does this data tell you about the gun and loads that you are using?
How do you adjust your loads based on the data that you get?

[atr]

Keeping it simple, since I don't carry a sand bag or a Ransom Rest in the field I test my revolver loads (38 spl, 357 mag and 44 mag) by going to the range and firing off-hand at 50 ft. I use a paper pie plate as a target. I use whatever groups best and is comfortable to shoot.

[308Jeff]

For high power rifle, I do an incremental ladder. I started typing it out, but it's very well explained here.

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

Has worked very well for me when working up 223 and 308 F-T/R loads. Much faster and cheaper way to figure out what works.

[Virginia John]

If I am trying a new powder or example, I will check the load data for the powder vs. caliber I am loading. Try to find at least two references that agree. For target loads I usually start with the minimum stated load data and increment up and down from there in .2gr increments loading five of each weight. So now you have 3 sets of rounds loaded and you try all 5 of each noting how well it performs as in POI vs. POA. Check the guns reaction to the load, does it cycle, how is the muzzle flip, what is the recoil like, etc. From these three sets of rounds you select one or you decide to try three more hotter or softer based on your initial feedback.

[Rodfac]

FWIW I shoot better from sitting back rested than I do from a sandbag rest. Me too, and I find that a zero from that position is perfect for 2-handed offhand as well. This makes it good practice for trigger control, sight alignment and picture etc.

But with cast bullets, I'm looking for accuracy, first and foremost, and with an auto loader, function, then accuracy. I rarely hunt with my short guns, at least deer sized game, which makes any super accurate load I find a good 'hunting' load for woodchucks etc. YMMV Rod Here are a cpl pics...

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii64/Rodfac/Positions%20Holster%20Shoot/SittingGrip.jpg (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/Rodfac/media/Positions%20Holster%20Shoot/SittingGrip.jpg.html)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii64/Rodfac/Positions%20Holster%20Shoot/DSCN2091.jpg (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/Rodfac/media/Positions%20Holster%20Shoot/DSCN2091.jpg.html)

[reddog81]

44MAG#1, Actually there are plenty powders that have a 50% increase in powder weight from min to max. looking at 200 grain lead bullets for .30-06 in Lyman #48 there are lots of powders that start right around 20 grains and go up to 30 grains as the max. I've used 10 grains of Unique in some .30-06 loads where the max was over 20 grains.

For reference my 4 to 6 grain jump was for a 200 SWC in .45 ACP using 231. The crazy thing about Lyman #48 for .45 ACP is that there are actually 2 200 grain 45 ACP SWC loads and the starting weight for one is 4.0 grains and the other is 5.4.

[MT Gianni]

If I am accuracy testing I use sandbags or an Ohler pistol rest. I shoot offhand to try to duplicate my results from a rest but recognize it isn't an ideal world. If I know my loads are accurate from a rest I can fix what needs to be done offhand. If I am not shooting well offhand there are too many variables to blame the load.

[popper]

I've never worked up a load for pistol or rifle. I have increased a load to see when it fails.

[375RUGER]

0.5 grain? For my .38 Special and .32 H&R, that would only be about 2, maybe 3, different loads. Is that pretty much standard?
I had .44 mag and .500 S&W on the mind, and I should have said I start in .5g increments. I do get down to .1-.2 grain as I narrow the load, in the .44 anyway. I have one load in the 44 that uses 20.2g of H110. Same as rifle, start wide and then narrow it down when you notice groups get tighter.
For itty-bitty pistol you probably don't need but a few loads with a 2g spread of powder to get a good load. IIRC last time I did some 357 work I used .3g spread.

[Hogdaddy]

I find 15gr H110 to be as accurate as I can be out of my 357 Ruger Security Six ; )
H/D

[saleen322]

I'm just wondering what the recommended procedure is for finding out which load is most accurate in an open sight revolver if one doesn't have access to a Ransom Rest. With a rifle and optics it's pretty simple - load 3-5 rounds in about 0.2 grain increments, shoot a group with each load, and pick the load with the smallest group. However, with a revolver and open sights, how do you tell? I'm not sure I trust my hold nor my eyes with an open sighted pistol in order to shoot a decent enough group.
Do you shoot from a rest? Etc.? Etc.?
Please share your methods.

I shoot from a rest starting at 25 yards until I get something that shows promise and then go to 50. The other thing I will offer is don't count on powder charge changes alone to give you big gains in accuracy. Powder charge is under crimp in importance and certainly has less effect than overall length. Normally group spread will be greater high to low than left to right; vertical stringing, from incorrect powder charge. I will start at minimum powder charge and increase the powder charge until the groups go round-no greater in elevation than windage; and note that charge. Then continue to increase the charge, while staying under maximum, until the vertical stringing returns and note that charge. The sweet spot is generally the center of this range. I do this with the length on the minimum size and increase length in small increments until the groups go down in size. I recommend going from short to long in length as many rounds will increase in pressure if you decrease the length. After you find the best length, then you can play with more of less crimp and see the results. It takes time but is worth it. To show the difference, here are two different loads. Same bullet, same case, same primer, same powder and charge weight. I only changed the length and you can see the difference. Hope this helps.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Pistol/952%20SW/9mm115Tgt2-A_zpsc7160316.jpg http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Pistol/952%20SW/9mm115Tgt1-A_zps3b596f96.jpg

[44MAG#1]

I think my point wasn't understood on the increments in percentage when going up on loads.
If load data for a given cartridge is starting load 4 grains and max is 6 grains why would one make such a large jump in an increment percentage wise such as 4.5 to 5 when one wouldn't do it in a rifle?
Makes no sense.

[reddog81]

If you want to take the time to load 4.0, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6, 4.8, 5.0, 5.2, 5.4, 5.6, 5.8, and 6.0 that would certainly be one way to do it but it's going to be much easier to keep track of 3 loads. Once you know which load you prefer of the 3 then you can tweak the loads from there. The OP asked what people do. That's what I would, right wrong or indefferent....

It's definitely possible to do in a rifle. I was shooting a new bullet in my 1903 last week. I had 3 loads 10, 12, 15 grains unique. I could have taken the time to load the 30 different .2 grain increments between 10 and 15 but I wanted 20 rounds of each weight and I didn't have 600 pieces of brass laying around.

[Larry Gibson]

I put the target just far enough away so there won't be any powder burns on it.....then shoot enough shots until 3 holes "clover leaf". I then cut out that 3 shot group, put it in my wallet for "bragging rights"........

I also scan it so I can post it on forums claiming 5/8" groups at 318 yards..........:kidding:



Larry Gibson

[Triggernosis]

Me too, and I find that a zero from that position is perfect for 2-handed offhand as well. This makes it good practice for trigger control, sight alignment and picture etc.

But with cast bullets, I'm looking for accuracy, first and foremost, and with an auto loader, function, then accuracy. I rarely hunt with my short guns, at least deer sized game, which makes any super accurate load I find a good 'hunting' load for woodchucks etc. YMMV Rod Here are a cpl pics...

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii64/Rodfac/Positions%20Holster%20Shoot/SittingGrip.jpg (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/Rodfac/media/Positions%20Holster%20Shoot/SittingGrip.jpg.html)



Aha! I'd never thought to use that position before. I like it. That should work well for me.

[sundog]

I put the target just far enough away so there won't be any powder burns on it.....then shoot enough shots until 3 holes "clover leaf". I then cut out that 3 shot group, put it in my wallet for "bragging rights"........

I also scan it so I can post it on forums claiming 5/8" groups at 318 yards..........:kidding:



Larry Gibson


Well, I do just about the same dang thang, ceptin' that my story is that there are 10 shots in those 3 holes...

[dverna]

I put the target just far enough away so there won't be any powder burns on it.....then shoot enough shots until 3 holes "clover leaf". I then cut out that 3 shot group, put it in my wallet for "bragging rights"........

I also scan it so I can post it on forums claiming 5/8" groups at 318 yards..........:kidding:



Larry Gibson

Reality can be a *****. I believe a lot of people cherry pick results to look good. I have seen claims that are just BS but we are all conditioned (at least on this forum) to play nice or get warned...so I let it go.

Just remember folks, if someone is shooting jacketed rifle sized groups at 100 yards with a pistol using cast bullets ....why is he wasting his time here?

Anyway, back to the OP.

Trigger, first test your capability. Get/borrow a .22 target pistol and put a scope or dot sight on it. Get a selection of good ammo. Get a pistol rest. Set up at 25 yards and shoot for group (10 shots). If you cannot get less than a 2" group, you have to work on trigger control and/or flinch. BTW most will group at 1".

Then shoot without the scope. How much does using iron sights affect you. If there is a huge difference, work on sight picture.

If you cannot shoot a .22 accurately off a rest, you are wasting time and money testing CF.

If you shoot a .22 accurately, then testing a CF requires three parameters. One, is to establish if the gun is accurate. If it will not shoot jacketed bullets, that is a red flag. The second, is if you can produced consistent reloads...best done with jacketed bullets of good quality. Lastly, do you have a good cast bullet.

Therefore, if you prove you are capable of shooting, the gun is capable of shooting, you are capable of reloading, and you can cast a good bullet, then load development makes sense. It is a matter of experimenting with the simple things first...powder type and charges, crimp, OAL, primers, sized diameter. More involved are alloy, lube and bullet design.

It behooves you to select bullet designs that typically run well in your caliber and gun. There are many here who have opinions and experience you can draw on.

Don Verna

[Love Life]

I put the target just far enough away so there won't be any powder burns on it.....then shoot enough shots until 3 holes "clover leaf". I then cut out that 3 shot group, put it in my wallet for "bragging rights"........

I also scan it so I can post it on forums claiming 5/8" groups at 318 yards..........:kidding:



Larry Gibson

I do the exact same thing, but I can't tell anybody how I do it and nobody can match how I do it.

[Texas by God]

Keeping it simple, since I don't carry a sand bag or a Ransom Rest in the field I test my revolver loads (38 spl, 357 mag and 44 mag) by going to the range and firing off-hand at 50 ft. I use a paper pie plate as a target. I use whatever groups best and is comfortable to shoot.
This- and if it doesn't perform this way I don't waste more time on that load.

[44MAG#1]

reddog81

Okay we will use the 45 Auto as an example using Hodgdons data for CFE Pistol and the 200 gr bullet.
They list as a start load at 6.3 gr at 14900 PSI and 7.7 as max at 20200 PSI.
NOW if I take and start at 6.3 and load 10 at that load and then jump 11% to my next as you gave the example in your scenario I will have to load the next increment at 7 gr.. That is not too smart.
now let's say I go 6.3 6.8 where do I go next 7.3 right?Going up just the half as you gave in your example I jumped 8%.
Now in the example I gave in the 30-06 with a 180 gr bullet from Speers #14 book and used your example of jumping 11% in one increment using a starting load of 54 gr of H4350 and jumping 11% we would go to 60 gr which is over their max of 58 gr.
My question is why would one not be that sloppy in a rifle and then be sloppy in a handgun? Especially which with fast powders builds pressure quickly and could pose a problem pressure wise in the next increment with such a big jump?
That is what I don't understand.

[Love Life]

reddog81

Okay we will use the 45 Auto as an example using Hodgdons data for CFE Pistol and the 200 gr bullet.
They list as a start load at 6.3 gr at 14900 PSI and 7.7 as max at 20200 PSI.
NOW if I take and start at 6.3 and load 10 at that load and then jump 11% to my next as you gave the example in your scenario I will have to load the next increment at 7 gr.. That is not too smart.
now let's say I go 6.3 6.8 where do I go next 7.3 right?Going up just the half as you gave in your example I jumped 8%.
Now in the example I gave in the 30-06 with a 180 gr bullet from Speers #14 book and used your example of jumping 11% in one increment using a starting load of 54 gr of H4350 and jumping 11% we would go to 60 gr which is over their max of 58 gr.
My question is why would one not be that sloppy in a rifle and then be sloppy in a handgun? Especially which with fast powders builds pressure quickly and could pose a problem pressure wise in the next increment with such a big jump?
That is what I don't understand.

You wouldn't make the same jump. Common sense would tell you to change how much your increments should be based off the reloading data available. In 45 ACP, using fast powders, I use .2-.3 gr increments depending on the load window for the powder. For smaller cartridges (38 S&W, 380, etc) I use .1 gr jumps. For powders and/or calibers with larger load windows I would use larger increments.

When chasing the most accurate, I will do additional workups with finer increments up and down. This is especially helpful in squeezing out that nth degree of accuracy AND finding a load area where +/- .1-.3 on either side falls in the same groups to the distance I am shooting for. What I've accomplished with that is given myself the ability to load a bit faster not sweating that +/- variation of the powder measure. If I really, really, really, really want the last drop of accuracy then I break out the lab scale which measures to the .02 gr. and I'll be loading that in brass that has been severely sorted and prepped to be as consistent as possible.

It all depends what you want to get out of it. For an iron sighted revolver, I will find what I need doing an initial ladder moving up in .2-.4 increments, and then a second ladder centered around my most accurate loads from the first ladder.

[reddog81]

I didn't say just keeping jumping up 11% percent until you're over max...
My intent was to simplify the process and instead loading 100's of rounds and getting lost in all the data, getting burnt on shooting and making a giant chore out of something that should be enjoyable. I specifically said choose a load on the light side, one in the middle and a load closer to the max. Once you shoot those loads determine what worked best and refine the approach. The example I used has a fairly wide range just like many of the combinations out there. Obviously you need to stay within the min and max of the load data. Again, I never said just choose a random percentage and increase from there until your gun gives away...

If you took the time to look up .30-06 data you would see there are loads that have a spread from 20 to 30 grains. How would you suggest working up a load? 5 rounds at 20.0, 20.2, 20.4 going up .2 at a time up to 29.6, 29.8 ,and finally 30.0 would result in creating 255 rounds. There might be some bench rest shooter out there that can shoot hundreds and hundreds of rounds in a sitting but that's not going to work for most people. Do you just choose one random load and hope it's the best like your first post suggests?

[44MAG#1]

Going from 20 to 30 if one jumped 11% one would go to 22.2 as the next increment if one started at 20 with the first batch.
That is a 2.2 gr spread.
One wouldn't do that even in the 30-06 example I gave Going from 54 to 58 gr..

[reddog81]

There's no magical 11%. If the load data was 54 to 58 and you were doing what I suggest then you pick a light load, a medium load, and a hotter load. In this example I would go with 55, 56, and 57 grains. This happens to be a 1.8% increase but that is not relevant.

If in this example the 55 grain load was the most accurate then I'd try 54.5, 55, and 55.5. There's no magical % increase. You just keep refining the load until you find the one that works the best staying with in the min and max. If this is too confusing use a different method.

[tazman]

I know that my steadiness and eyesight vary from day to day. I also know that my handguns don't shoot the same from a rest as from offhand. My handguns react differently when I interact with them since I am not a machine. This is undoubtedly why I can't seem to shoot 1911 semi-autos well even though I love the design.
What I do to test loads is to shoot them offhand at distances I am comfortable with over the course of several days to even out the differences in my own performance.
I never reject any load on the first day unless it is truly atrocious. I never accept any load as being outstanding unless it has performed that way over several trips to the range.
The same strategy applies to my rifles.
It also gives me a great excuse to go to the range more often.

[Norske]

I test my loads by trying them at the indoor range where I volunteer as a safety officer. The 16 lane handgun range is a 50 foot range, the six lane rifle range is up to 100 meters long. Most of what I've learned is 50 years between being on a collegiate rifle and pistol team and the present is a very long time.

[Shiloh]

Sand bags.
I build a fort with them.

SHiloh

[Jcduff936]

I think there is a lot of good advice given so far. I can't help but think that you haven't done a lot of pistol shooting because you mentioned not trusting your eyes. Maybe you meant you're just rusty or normally use a scope. To me, this is the first issue to address. You have to be able to trust your optics, whether it's the ones God gave you or the ones you bought. Depending on your gun, you might be able to install a red dot sight or scope. I just installed a red dot on my RBH, mainly for load development. I'll probably take it off once I get through with troubleshooting my current issues with this gun. I have to agree with Don Verna, my wife is having a hard time shooting her handgun so I'm getting her to start off like I did, with a 22lr. I have a Heritage Rough Rider that I bought new for $100. It is amazing how accurate it is. It doesn't have fancy sights and I can't shoot it from a rest as well as freehand, but I threw a bunch of lead downrange with it. I believe that this is the best way to learn if you can shoot and will be fun in the process.

If you can shoot already, please don't take offense. As for the load development process, it depends on what your plans are. If you are wanting to use it for self-defense or other stand-up use, I would worry more with trying different shooting positions. This will train your muscles how to overcome the different variables while giving you the instinct with the weapon that you need in those situations. If you are just planning on plinking, there is plenty of instruction already mentioned. I wouldn't worry about using a rest unless you are planning on target shooting or competition. It doesn't help in a practical sense in my eyes. I know plenty of people that swear by sighting in a rifle with a lead sled or similar contraption, only to miss or make bad shots in the field because the rifle behaves differently when it's not locked down. I had an uncle that could shoot his pistols very well from a bench, but couldn't shoot freehand to save his life.

One last thing to consider, I have trouble with certain sights and you may also. I would take every opportunity to shoot different guns with different sights as you can. It can make a huge difference. Some people do better than others with certain sights. If you can change yours, it may or may not help but it's worth considering.

Handguns take practice, so shoot as much as you can. Have fun with it. If you get frustrated, stop and pick it up another day. You'll probably surprise yourself how you can shoot even what you can't see. Good luck!

[psweigle]

The real question to you should be what is the intended perpose of the load being worked up. If it's for handgun hunting or long range targets, the old 12"2x4 with a v notched barrel support board works fantastic as a rest. And I load up in .2 grain incraments.

[Triggernosis]

When I said I don't trust my eyes I meant that my vision is at the point that the front post isn't as sharp as it used to be.
I'm a Master level shooter with a service rifle, but use a corrective lens for that (switching to a scope soon).

[robg]

Find the starting load for whatever powder load 5 rounds increasing .5gr till max .test fire find best group load again but in .2 he increments around most promising load .then shoot 10 round groups ,best group keep that load

[popper]

Can you really tell unless it's a scoped revolver in a ransom rest? Working up in small increments is to find the barrel node in rifles. If you are actively in competition shooting, go for it, else just find one that works pretty good.
I try with XD40 for a good group @ 25, 3" best. But I hit a pig in the rear (on a dead run) @ 25 1" right of bung hole, where I was aiming. My standard low recoil, target, SD, what ever load (i.e. not worked up). I'm old, going in Wed. to get the right eye fixed, left in 2 weeks, then get cataracts fixed.

[Texas by God]

We grew up playing chase the bullet. About 25' set up a paper plate. Shoot a hole in it. Use that as your aiming point and watch your group form.
Best, Thomas.