Casting for GI M1 Carbine - Am I Asking Too Much?

[308Jeff]

I have quite a bit of 30 Carbine brass. Way more than I have bullets.

What I want is to produce cast bullets, with no gas checks, and jacketed bullet reliability. I plan on PCing (medium blue bullets would look neato in 30 Carbine).

Can it/has it been done?

[rondog]

Paging USSR.......

[lightman]

I use a 130 grain Lyman mold and Unique. Straight wheelweights work fine.

[GONRA]

GONRA suggests you USE GAS CHECKS! These verk Just Fine in M1 and M2 carbines:
119 grain .309 diameter Lyman U311359 cast boolit, 13.5 grains 4227 powder, CCI 400 primers.
Same OAL as GI carbine ammo.
Should able to use most any scrap lead, boolit lube for the boolit....

[georgerkahn]

I agree 110% with GONRA re using Gas Checks!!! In my (Indland) carbine, no matter what the alloy, I do not get the performance I wish sans the GC. I use the Ideal 311-359GC, LYMAN 311359 .30 Carbine 115 grain mould, w/#359 top punch, and LYMAN 311410 130 grain, 2-cavity w/ #467 top punch all with great success.
BEST!
geo

[308Jeff]

Thanks, guys. I suspected I was hoping for too much by skipping the gas checks. I will probably just keep loading FMJs.

[runfiverun]

don't get discouraged so easily.
you just have to think and measure your way through most of these little problems.
I bet it can be done

[Thumbcocker]

The Lyman 130 rn is a plain base designed for the .30 carbine. It worked for me.

[P Flados]

Until recently, gas check were the easiest way to get non-leading bullets for higher perfomance loads.

I had a number of guns that were certain to build up lead any time I shot hot loads with cast bullets.

Since I started PC (ASBB HF Red), I have had no leading problems for lots of full power loads.

The closest I have come to 30 carbine, are my 327 loads. I have pushed 90 & 110 grn bullets to full power with no problems.

I have also pushed PC coated bullets to full power with no leading in 357 mag, 357 Max & 44 mag.

It is my opinion is that the number of guns "requiring" gas checks to get full power are few and far in between.

If you are set up for gas checks and like them, fine. I do not have a check maker and have no interest in paying market prices for these items.

My recommendation is give PC an honest chance before comitting to gas checks or J words.

[308Jeff]

don't get discouraged so easily.
you just have to think and measure your way through most of these little problems.
I bet it can be done

I reckon you're right, good sir.


The Lyman 130 rn is a plain base designed for the .30 carbine. It worked for me.

I like it. Thanks!


Until recently, gas check were the easiest way to get non-leading bullets for higher perfomance loads.

I had a number of guns that were certain to build up lead any time I shot hot loads with cast bullets.

Since I started PC (ASBB HF Red), I have had no leading problems for lots of full power loads.

The closest I have come to 30 carbine, are my 327 loads. I have pushed 90 & 110 grn bullets to full power with no problems.

I have also pushed PC coated bullets to full power with no leading in 357 mag, 357 Max & 44 mag.

It is my opinion is that the number of guns "requiring" gas checks to get full power are few and far in between.

If you are set up for gas checks and like them, fine. I do not have a check maker and have no interest in paying market prices for these items.

My recommendation is give PC an honest chance before comitting to gas checks or J words.

Alright. I'm gonna have at it and see what happens.

Thank you.

[jimb16]

130 gr. lyman plain base and 4227 powder. Has worked great in every carbine I've ever had and I've had more than 25 of them. (I only have 2 right now) I even shot them successfully in the M2 carbine I used to own. Keep the velocity down around 1400-1500 fps and you should be fine.

[308Jeff]

Thank you, Jim!

Is that the 311410?

[15meter]

I use a saeco 254 sized to .310 with (usually) redding green lube in the sizer, shot in 4 different carbines over the years all shot great, no leading and accurate enough for plinking and occasional 100 yard matches. This is a 115 gr., bevel base, round nose design. Loaded with Alliant 2400 to cycle action nicely. I don't have a clue on the velocity. The lead I use is typically "dead guy lead". I bought this lead from an estate a number of years ago with the instructions of "he always used 3 of these big ingots with one of these little ingots". Nice lead that is plenty hard enough to work through the carbine well.

[Larry Gibson]

308Jeff

You can certainly get jacketed bullet reliability with a PB'd cast bullet in your M1 Carbine. However, you will not get jacketed bullet performance.

I have been shooting cast bullets in M1 Carbines (a few M2s also) since '68. I have shot thousands of cast bullets through them. With several GC'd cast bullets I have always gotten better accuracy with 100% reliability at 1850 - 1950 fps than with FMJs. Most often the cast bullets at full performance level (1850 - 1950 fps) even are more accurate or as accurate as the best commercial jacketed bullets. You will not get that level of performance with accuracy using a PB cast bullet. The GC is definitely needed. It is not any more painful to put on a GC than to PC the bullets. The cost isn't much more either.

Larry Gibson

My "shooter" M1 and the 313631 SWC (for the 32 H&R sized .309 and HP'd) loaded at 1975 fps. All 15 of those will stay inside 1 1/2 - 2 moa at 100 yards. For casual shooting the Lyman 311359, RCBS 30-115-SP and the Lee C309-120-R are excellent choices.

187956187955

[Victor N TN]

Back in the early 1980s, the man that taught me most of what I know about bullet casting, told me that any rifle that used a GAS system to cycle the action needed a gas check. Or be prepared to strip it and clean the entire gas system.

Like I said, this is hear-say from a trusted and pretty smart man. If anyone knows for sure that information is wrong, please let me know or post it here.

Thank you.
Victor

[bstone5]

I have a 117 grain cast bullet sized at .309, the bullets are plain base. The bullets are powder coated and a home made gas check made from cola can material is installed. The bullets will shot with zero lead in the gas system of the M1 Carbine. At a velocity of 1850 the bullets shoot a good group at 100 yards. Use the same bullet in a 308 bolt gun, small ring Mauser, that are loaded with Trail Boss, my 9 year old grand son shoots this gun a lot for plinking, he can go thru ammo fast since there is very little recoil with the Trail Boss load. Always keep several hundred of these bullets available, bullets cast with an automated Master Caster.

[308Jeff]

Thank you, all.

[jimb16]

Yes, 311410. Been shooting that one for years. I size it .309.

[fatelk]

I don't have near the experience as some of these guys, but from what I've seen loading for mine, I'll second what Larry Gibson says about accuracy.

I've been using the Lee 100gr RN pistol bullet, powder coated and pushed to about 1800fps. So far they've been completely reliable, with no trace of leading, but accuracy is nothing to brag about. They're basically minute-of-tin can for my ten year old son.

[beagle]

Why do so many ignore the wealth of information on castpics? Sure, PB bullets will give accuracy comparable to jacketed bullets in the .30 M1 Carbine. See article "Cast Bullets in the .30 M1 Carbine" on castpics./beagle

[308Jeff]

Thank you.

[308Jeff]

Why do so many ignore the wealth of information on castpics? Sure, PB bullets will give accuracy comparable to jacketed bullets in the .30 M1 Carbine. See article "Cast Bullets in the .30 M1 Carbine" on castpics./beagle

Beagle, I tried to search on there, but I'm coming up empty handed. Can you post a direct link? Very much appreciated.

[Sur-shot]

If you are smart with the carbine and cast bullets you will set up the seater and crimp dies as two different stages. Crimping and seating as one function can build up shaved lead and lube on the case mouth, then build up lead and lube on the chamber end at the barrel mouth where it headspaces and eventually result in an out of battery discharge on an older worn carbine. The result is a sheered locking lug if you are real lucky. Saw that happen to my "Jukes Box", was not a happy camper.

I too use that 130 Lyman and it shoots real well at about 50 yards, after I replaced the bolt. :-(

[308Jeff]

If you are smart with the carbine and cast bullets you will set up the seater and crimp dies as two different stages. Crimping and seating as one function can build up shaved lead and lube on the case mouth, then build up lead and lube on the chamber end at the barrel mouth where it headspaces and eventually result in an out of battery discharge on an older worn carbine. The result is a sheered locking lug if you are real lucky. Saw that happen to my "Jukes Box", was not a happy camper.

I too use that 130 Lyman and it shoots real well at about 50 yards, after I replaced the bolt. :-(

Thank you!

[zomby woof]

I have the NOE 311115 PB mold for the Carbine. I use Hi-Tek coating. I strongly suggest getting this mold. Feeds great and extremely accurate. Send me a PM for more specifics.

[308Jeff]

PM sent. Thank you!

[dmccord]

Why do so many ignore the wealth of information on castpics? Sure, PB bullets will give accuracy comparable to jacketed bullets in the .30 M1 Carbine. See article "Cast Bullets in the .30 M1 Carbine" on castpics./beagle

Thanks for the head up, I just finished reading it and learned a lot! I just picked up 2 M1 Carbines and am about to start loading some NOE cast bullets (Gas Checked) They are listed as 115 grain but powder coated and gas checked they are 119 grains. I will be using data I have found for 115 grain so I will have to reduce it just a little. I keep reading about people using H-110 but its not listed in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. I do see loads for it on their site for a 110 gr FMJ bullet.

Just starting out with the 30 carbine, thanks again for the info.

[abunaitoo]

"Cast Bullets in the .30 M1 Carbine" on castpics./beagle
Can't find it.
Please post link.

[USSR]

I have been using cast PB bullets in my M1 Carbine for many years. It's all I use. The mold was a Group Buy on this site manufactured by Lee. The key is to use an alloy consisting of mostly linotype or monotype with some pure lead mixed in. My bullets come out at 105 grains, and my normal load is 12.5 grains of 2400.

Don

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks for the head up, I just finished reading it and learned a lot! I just picked up 2 M1 Carbines and am about to start loading some NOE cast bullets (Gas Checked) They are listed as 115 grain but powder coated and gas checked they are 119 grains. I will be using data I have found for 115 grain so I will have to reduce it just a little. I keep reading about people using H-110 but its not listed in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. I do see loads for it on their site for a 110 gr FMJ bullet.

Just starting out with the 30 carbine, thanks again for the info.

Unknown why Lyman doesn't list H110 for use with the 30 Carbine. H110 was developed for use in the 30 Carbine. My guess is because it is a powder not recommended for "reduced loads". However, I use it for top end, service level loads with jacketed and GC'd cast bullets where it performs normally w/o problems. H110 is my preferred powder in the 30 Carbine for jacketed and cast after 49 years of trying most everything else.

The OP wants to use a PB cast bullet. It is the only instance where I found a different powder to work better. With PB'd cast of 118 - 125 gr I found 4227 to be the better powder as for best accuracy the velocity was kept at 1550 - 1600 fps. Functioning was 100% with 4227 also with the low end loads.

Larry Gibson

[rintinglen]

It has been quite a while since I loaded any 30 carbine, but 12.8 grains of H110 did yeoman's work with a 311-316 gas checked. I tried some 311-410s but accuracy was mediocre. I have to admit that 25 years ago, I was much less knowledgeable than I am now, so It may have been operator error on my part, but the Gas Checked boolits were much more accurate.

[GooseGestapo]

I only started shooting a .30Carbine about 2 years ago. It's been an interesting endeavor.
I started with a Plainfield that shot pretty good, but discovered they aren't allowed in CMP Carbine matches, so I traded it for a '44 Saginaw rebuild with a like new Inland barrel.

I was quickly disappointed in that it throws "fliers". Nothing has shown any promise at helping. I've tried everything in the "accuracy" article to include a new stock and recoil plate. It already had a type III barrel band/bayonet lug.

Enter cast bullets!

On a lark, I loaded some 90gr Lee .311" powder-coated (HF "shake 'n bake") over 11gr of #2400. Idea was to see if they would cycle the action and feed.
Did They!!! I was amazed.
They shoot as good as the 110gr FMJ. No better, but for practically free bullets, they were amazing. And NO GAS CHECKS...
So, I've bought me a Lee 100gr 2R .311". Cast, coated, and sized they're 104gr and over 11.7gr of #2400, they come as close to duplicating factory ammo as you could ask for. I prefer #2400 as the cases are thrown over my right shoulder in a neat pile (I shoot long-guns left handed).
Still shooting 10" groups at 100yds, 1-2 will "fly" out of central core of 3-4". Just like 110gr Sierra's at close to $0.20 each.

I've also tried other powders (H4227, H110, Acc#9), along with assorted jacketed bullets. Also Lee 120gr RNGC, and 113gr Lee .311FNGC (my favorite).
I suppose a Criterion barrel is in my future...

But I really do enjoy shooting my Carbine for a nickel a shot!

[Texas by God]

I'm fixing to start reloading .30 carbine for my wife's Howa Sporter. I have some 110 sp PPUs to use up,and then get a mould. Is there a truncated flat point style available as far as anyone knows? I want a gas check design.
Best, Thomas.

[Outpost75]

I'm fixing to start reloading .30 carbine for my wife's Howa Sporter. I have some 110 sp PPUs to use up,and then get a mould. Is there a truncated flat point style available as far as anyone knows? I want a gas check design.
Best, Thomas.

Not sure whether a truncated flat-nose will feed. I had Accurate cut 31-120TG for my Inland carbine and Ruger Blackhawk revolver and it works for me.

197917

[GSSP]

I like to run the Accurate Mold 4-cavity, 115 gr (throws about 120 gr with WW) RN with GC and 14-15 gr of H110/CCI 400's. They are water dropped to increase BHN. Run's very smooth with zero malfs.

Alan

[Outpost75]

Accurate 31-114D sized .311" with 14 grs. of IMR4198 cycles my carbine fine and is accurate, if not full power.

198150

[Hickok]

don't get discouraged so easily.
you just have to think and measure your way through most of these little problems.
I bet it can be doneRunfiverun, I really like that reply. Great advice!

[GooseGestapo]

Update to post #32.
I decided to try lapping the crown on the muzzle.
Voila! I made a Lapp from a large headed screw. I coated it first with a piece of 320grit wet/dry sand paper. Polished the juncture of the bore and crown. Rifling is very prominent. I then followed up with valve lapping compound on the screw head, turned with a cordless drill.

Shot it this afternoon. Using some 100gr Hornady half-jacket I found in some gifted odd lots of components, over 11.7gr of #2400, I got a neat cluster of shots in 1.5" at 50yds with one flyer opening group to 2.5". A 50% improvement in accuracy!

Several other loads were tried including 110gr Armscor jacketed over 14.7gr of H110. Groups were nice and round, without the customary flyers. Heavy rains intervened with a tornado warning, so 100yd groups will have to wait. Perhaps 6" now at 100yds instead of 12-13"...

Such a fun rifle to shoot!!!