45-70 alloy for Russian Boar?

[pmer]

Hi guys, I'm planning a hunting trip for a Russian boar and wondering about alloy. I have some 405 grain boolits on hand and they are air cooled 50/50 COWW & pure. They are a SAECO 6 and wondering if that would work or should I cast some that are tougher?

Its a Marlin 1895SS 45-70 micro grove. I just practiced away my current load using 2400 and have some other powders like 3031.

[Wolfer]

I don't have a 45-70 but I'm confident a 405 gr cast 50/50 at trapdoor or above speeds will handle anything on the North American continent if reasonably placed.

[Mr Peabody]

That bullet should do the trick. I use Reloader 7 in the 45-70, though IMR 3031 does as well. The 3031 leaves bits of unburnt powder in the bore, or maybe it's burnt and has a different color.

[Hogdaddy]

I don't have a 45-70 but I'm confident a 405 gr cast 50/50 at trapdoor or above speeds will handle anything on the North American continent if reasonably placed.

Providing the Pb is from the good ole USA
H/D

[Harter66]

I don't know how far you expect to shoot 1 or how big you expect to shoot .
We have made several trips to TX for hogs . Typically 200# and under 75yd . 45 Colts out of a carbine was plenty for most opportunities . 255-265 at 1200fps will give pass throughs in shields and scapula to at least 170# as will a 30-30 .
A 45 cal 405 anything will be sufficient above 1400 fps for all the hogs you might encounter .

[Ballard]

I knocked a hog off last Spring with the .45-70. 300gr RCBS cast WW+ 2% tin. 53.5 grs of H-322. He went down fast, and didn't even wiggle. Just lights out.

[skeettx]

What you currently have will be just fine
You have confidence in that load, GOOD

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I agree with skeettx

[texasnative46]

pmer,

ImVho, most any 405 grain boolit in front of 25 grains of 2400 will "do the deed" on ANY game in the North American Continent, presuming a solid hit to the heart/lung area. = I have an old school chum who pastors a church in northern AK & he tells me that he's taken ALL the available local big game with his Marlin Model 1895 lever-action & that load.
(Roy took a HUGE/ANGRY Polar Bear with the rifle, that couldn't be dislodged from the church's Christian Life Center = read: the fellowship/choir hall. = GYD.)

yours, tex

[pmer]

Sounds good, it's at Bear Mountain in the upper peninsula of Michigan. It's guided and I can take one up to 250lbs or so. Hoping for a nice eating one and I haven't went after wild hogs before. Shot a few butcher hogs up close with a 22 but nothing that looks like these boar.

Wow, Tex, nothing worse than a polar bear holding up services!

[texasnative46]

pmer,

WORSE YET, the bear INVADED a Baby Shower, attended by numerous "church ladies". - Roy said, "I don't think so." & BOOM = GYD.

yours, tex

[jaysouth]

Five hundred six pounds of pig put down by a .308 shooting 165 Ranch Dog, WW with a little piece of solder, over 30 grs. of H4895 at 50 yards.

Had I been in a blind or otherwise off the ground, the first round would have killed him. But I only had a couple of skinny trees between me and the pig. After a total of 4 rounds, he rolled down a hillside and expired.

I guess that load is about a full pressure load in a 30-30 or thereabouts. Next time, I will take the 7 shot Marlin 30-30 instead of the 4 shot Rem 7600.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l222/jwsoutherland/Pig%20Hunting/2017-01-24%2011.04.36_zpsxqhotdji.jpg (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/jwsoutherland/media/Pig%20Hunting/2017-01-24%2011.04.36_zpsxqhotdji.jpg.html)

[texasnative46]

jaysouth,

IF I ever get into an area where there are boar anywhere near that size, I'll take along my Model 760 in 9.3x62mm, with the 10-shot magazine full of 286 grain hunting loads.
(Truly, I wouldn't trust a .30-30 for such a MONSTER.)

CONGRADS on your hog.

Addenda: My neighbor was TREED by several feral boar not long ago & spent the afternoon up in a Pin-Oak tree, until his son came looking for him in a PU.
(Johnny Mac said, "I was SCARED.")

yours, tex

[jaysouth]

A couple of centuries ago when I was a mere lad, a couple of local 'sports' decided that hunting feral pigs from horse back would be the most efficient way to cover ground in the dark.

About two miles into the swamp and about an hour after dark, they met up with a small herd of pigs. The horses panicked and left the two nimrods on foot. They spent the rest of the night up in trees, had a long way back to the truck after sunup, and a difficult time trying to make up a story that made them less than grossly stupid.

After a couple of failed attempts invoking UFOs, big foot and an earthquake, they finally fessed up to what really happened. One of them never did find his rifle. It is strongly suspected that there was alcohol involved in the planning and execution of this "hunt".

[popper]

Jay, yes pretty good 30/30 load. I have a 185gr RD for mine but it only holds 5 rnds. runs ~ 2100 from a 336. I use LeverE powder.

[Blackwater]

Jay, that was funny! Thanks! All sorts of folks seem to take their quarry for granted. I think it's some sort of hubris acquired from too much alcohol and too much one-upmanship around the campfire, usually? But take most anything or anybody for granted, and surprises are always likely to ensue. It's good nobody got hurt in the process, at least. I'm betting that's ONE story that won't be told around many campfires in the future!

[MBTcustom]

I've done extensive shooting of the 45-70 over the past 3 years. Five different rifles, 12 powders and more than 10 different bullet designs.
My conclusion (much to my chagrin) is that it works best at top end. Ten shot groups did not deliver sub 2MOA until I put the pedal to the metal and hit the NOS.
If you take your brass and use the Lyman neck sizing die, you will get a little more case capacity and a little more precision downrange.
Use COWW + some tin water dropped. The RCBS bullet is great, or you can buy my 45XCB bullet from Accurate molds (46-430 G) or the Ranch Dog etc etc etc. Anything about 405 grains with not too big a meplat will do.
Use White Label BAC.
Starline brass.
Then put it all together around Paul Mathews load of 54 grains of IMR 4895.
This will produce speeds in excess of 1800FPS, it will be accurate, and it will absolutely anchor any animal you shoot with it.
I had steel plates hung at 30 yards from tow straps. One bullet each, they went flying backwards like giant pennies hit with a pellet rifle. I assumed the bolts holding the plates to the straps simply tore through their holes, but this was not the case. The straps, both of them in each case, were torn in two and the plates were found 10 yards behind with frayed fabric still bolted to them.
I really didn't want to get into all that recoil, but the simple fact of the matter is, it shoots best that way, and all the rifle's I tried agreed. It's still one of my favorite calibers, and I've gotten used to shooting it, so I just shrug and thank God for the precision.


Edited to correct. I was thinking Paul Mathews and wrote Elmer Kieth.

[beltfed]

I've done extensive shooting of the 45-70 over the past 3 years. Five different rifles, 12 powders and more than 10 different bullet designs.
My conclusion (much to my chagrin) is that it works best at top end. Ten shot groups did not deliver sub 2MOA until I put the pedal to the metal and hit the NOS.
If you take your brass and use the Lyman neck sizing die, you will get a little more case capacity and a little more precision downrange.
Use COWW + some tin water dropped. The RCBS bullet is great, or you can buy my 45XCB bullet from Accurate molds (46-430 G) or the Ranch Dog etc etc etc. Anything about 405 grains with not too big a meplat will do.
Use White Label BAC.
Starline brass.
Then put it all together around Elmer Kieth's load of 54 grains of IMR 4895.
This will produce speeds in excess of 1800FPS, it will be accurate, and it will absolutely anchor any animal you shoot with it.
I had steel plates hung at 30 yards from tow straps. One bullet each, they went flying backwards like giant pennies hit with a pellet rifle. I assumed the bolts holding the plates to the straps simply tore through their holes, but this was not the case. The straps, both of them in each case, were torn in two and the plates were found 10 yards behind with frayed fabric still bolted to them.
I really didn't want to get into all that recoil, but the simple fact of the matter is, it shoots best that way, and all the rifle's I tried agreed. It's still one of my favorite calibers, and I've gotten used to shooting it, so I just shrug and thank God for the precision.

First of all Goodsteel,
Elmer Keith's load was 53 gr 3031 under 405 gr bullet.
I used that load back n 1963 and also under the Lyman 385 gr RNGC/1/4" meplat when I got my rebuilt M86 win 45-70. 1870fps.
It killed like lightning. Th 405 Rem bullet opened up like a varmint bullet. The 385 cast RNFP 457483GC worked well for 18 years my only hunting rifle. Using alloy of 9+1 ww/lino. It will go end to end thru a deer.
But as you said it hurts at the shoulder, too.
Soon after I reduced the load to 48 gr 3031 (Lyman handbook)
for 1750fps
Nowadays, I am using the Reloader 7 powder in my recent Marlin guide gun. Flows thru the measure better and seems to burn slightly cleaner.
beltfed/arnie

[beltfed]

Oh, with that 53 gr 3031 and the 457483, my M86 would put one all the way thru
a classical pine board baffle box and still thumped into the backstop with authority: 20 pine 3/4" boards spaced 3/4" apart.
For comparison, an M1 Garand put a 150 gr FMJ Ball bullet only into the 17th board.
Also, FWIW, Elmer Keith used a M86 with first shot with a 500 gr RN/full load
followed by the 405gr bullet or 400 gr Speer for heavy game in the timber
beltfed/arnie

[pmer]

http://accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/46-405A-D.png

Thanks for all the input! Here is the 405 grain I have.

[runfiverun]

PMER.
I shoot the T/L version of that mold.
it does just fine on top of 2400, for hunting I use 22.5 grs and a filler of Dacron.
I have taken it up to 24grs with and without the filler, but the steel butt plate on my 86 and my shoulder don't get along at that point.
if I wanted full on oomph for some reason I'd look real hard at H-322.

[Ballard]

Goodsteel and beltfed give GOOD advice. My H322 load was my hog load. I increase it quite a little for western hunting. It shoots quite flat at 2300fps, but that is NOT needed for piggies. ANY pig. BTW, Elmers load with the RCBS 405gr, (430grs my alloy), knocks Bison for a loop.

[pmer]

I got to try some rounds loaded with 50.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the 46-405A yesterday. One thing I noticed right away was the recoil was easier compared to 25.0/2400. 2400 seems to have more of a smack on the shoulder than 3031, I've read it before but didn't really try it till now since this is my first time trying 3031.

I set 2 jugs of water in a row and first jug split in two and the second almost went in two pieces. Then hit my metal swinger and it spun the swinger around 2 or 3 times which was more than my 44 ever done.

The hunting will be a wooded area and just have to zero for 30 yards at the camp with a long shot of 80 yards or so. It has a Burris Fast Fire II on it right now.

[pmer]

I made it to the lodge for the Russian boar hunt and got this one on the first day. I used the 45-70 with 3031 and the 405 grain boolit. It was quartering away and double lunged him and gashed it's liver. The boolit went out between the ribs and left a thumb sized hole.

It was about 20 degrees out and we had partly cloudy skies that were dropping lake effect snow from Lake Superior. The whole hunt was on foot stalking swamps and hilly woods. There was light wind and we had very quite walying because of the fresh snow.

In the first part of the hunt we jumped one that was sleeping under a tree trunk. The guide saw it with it's eyes shut but I only saw it on the run. About a half hour later we spotted a group of pigs in the swamp and stalked to within range. WInd was no problem and we even had the sun to our backs. This was my first time around large boars and a couple times they got to within 15 yards and they would look at us and try to smell us. But they went back to rooting in the snow.

I signed up for a mid sized one and these were either too big or too small so we watched these pigs till they moved out of the area. When it was time to move we went about a half mile west to set up a wait for them and that worked out good.

On the way there we saw them ahead of us and had one or two alpha boars around too. Once there it was only about a 10 wait before the first ones came by. And lucky for me some nice mid sized pigs were with too.

After this pig went by I let one round go and it ran about 15 yards and fell. Two big boars really stayed close and we had to chase them off a couple times. Wow that was a a fun hunt. 190693

[RugerFan]

Great hunt and some good eating! Congrats!

[pmer]

Thanks Ruger Fan, I thought I'd add a few picture of the mounts at their lodge because it was like a mini Cabellas' there. The Moose and the cinnamon colored bear were taken in Canada and everything else was from the estate or in the area. There was also a big cartridge collection there from big bore classics to hand gun. 416s, Gibbs, 500 A Square, Weatherbys. The 400/450 looked interesting and 375s and 9.3s were fun to look at too. I didn't see any PC'd stuff so I left a couple of coated 44s with RCBS 300 grain SWCs there.

One thing I didn't know about these pigs till this trip is there tusks keep growing. And the way the uppers and lowers rub together the lowers get a real sharp edge from top to bottom. So the lower tusks aren't just pointy but they will cut like a knife blade too. The alpha boars are such a contrast compared to deer hunting. Deer will run the other way in a heart beat. And you can watch these boars track your steps and push their way in to eat the blood soaked snow while you're standing next to the pig.

[Ranger Green]

I just came back from Texas where I got two pigs using my Marlin 1895SS, though I thought it had ballard rifling.

I used an NOE mold that cast 360 grain HP bullets. They were pretty soft, at about 9-10 BNH, as powder coating them tempered them more than I anticipated. The two pigs I got were about 40 and 50 lbs each. The fifty lb one I hit in the left chest area and the bullet exited between the 2nd and third rib from the end. It was dark so when the pig ran I thought I had missed it. After it was light enough I looked around the area as I held low. I was looking for a gouge in the mud to see if I could find the bullet but instead I found the blood trail. I followed it to the pig about 70 yards away, but only 10 yards into the mesquite.

The 40 lb sow I hit in the shoulder and she spun down and kicked only her hind legs for about twenty seconds. There is a nice round 45 cal exit hole on the far side. There was also a bit of blood shot meat on the Boston butt.

So I believe from my model of only two bullets that 45-70, even in a softer bullet, will take a pig if you put it in the right place.191599

[CPL Lou]

I've found that using a magnum primer and a heavy crimp while working with IMR 3031 in the 45-70 makes for small groups and cleaner burning powder.
My .02

CPL Lou

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Phil, looks like you had a real good hunt. Congratulations ! I wish we had been successful on the bison.
Sent you a PM.

[pmer]

Nice shooting Ranger Green, my 45-70 is a micro grove too. It handles boolits nicely too. I had a Burris Fast Fire reflex sight on it for the hunt. I learned that snow accumulating on the sight was not good because it blocked the reflection of dot on the glass. So I had to keep blowing snow off it. It worked good, probably not the best choice because of the weather.

CPL Lou, Yeah IMR3031 seems to have magical recoil easing tendencies while still making velocity. I have some magnum primers to try some time.

Glen, better luck next time for bison I bet it was still fun. I got his PM and sent him some boolits for his .480 Ruger. They are 380 grain with a big meplat. They-d be bad medicine for hogs too LOL.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

goodsteel, if you are still reading this, I like one of your boolit designs for the 9.3X62, but its driving bands are .366, if I ask for it in the notes section of the order form, could you make it .368, or do I need to pick a boolit already labled as such? thanks, sorry for the thread interruption! to the O.P, I think if you are comfortable with/ and have confidence in your load, that counts for a lot. Travis