Info Requested: 38 S&W SPL Military and Police Revolver

[Bayou52]

Guys:

This revolver was inherited from Dad who passed in 1970. I've had it in storage for the past 47 years. The serial number is C164XXX. It has no worn blue other than the ring on the cylinder. I never knew Dad to have shot it, but he likely did, at least a couple of times. The hammer and trigger are both case hardened.

Here's the pics:

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/Bayou413/IMG_20170211_140414_zpsmafecae3.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/Bayou413/media/IMG_20170211_140414_zpsmafecae3.jpg.html)

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/Bayou413/IMG_20170211_140326_zpswmtv7xuc.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/Bayou413/media/IMG_20170211_140326_zpswmtv7xuc.jpg.html)

I believe Dad would have acquired this revolver in the 50's or early 60's.

I'm now inclined to take this gun to the range. But, I was wondering:

1. Is there a data base of serial numbers where I could get a manufacture date?

2. Did this gun predate the familiar frame size designation (K frame, etc)? The original box only says "Military and Police Revolver".

3. Any particular reason why it should not be shot?

Thanks, in advance, for any info!

Bayou

[MarkP]

Pre M 10

[Walkingwolf]

You should refrain from shooting that gun, in fact for your own good you should ship it immediately to me for proper disposal.

:kidding:

[Uncle Jimbo]

The "C" prefix on that serial number means it is a Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolver (also known as the .38 Military & Police). The "C" went on guns with the new hammer bock safety. It is a K service frame gun with 5 external screws. Barrel markings are "Smith & Wesson" on the left side and ".38 S&W Special CTG" on the right side. Some had both markings on the left side.

Look on the crane or yoke of the gun (the part that holds the cylinder when you swing the cylinder out) and the model number should be there.

I think.

[Outpost75]

Nice revolver. No reason not to shoot it, but avoid +P loads. A 146-160-grain cast bullet of wheelweight alloy, sized .358 and loaded with 3.5 grains of Bullseye or 4 grains of 231 or HP38 will approximate factory loads and shoot close to the fixed sights.

[Bayou52]

Thanks so much, Guys, for the info.

Yes, there's the markings on the left side of the barrel, as Uncle Jimbo noted.

And there are stampings on the frame where the cylinder closes. It's stamped "2 B" and under that, the numbers "90XXX".

It doesn't seem to have a frame designation.

The gun is in super condition and quite tight in all respects. Tighter, in fact, than some of my newer Smiths. So, I'm confident the gun is safe to shoot.

Since no one remarked that this is a collectible item, perhaps a lifetime is long enough to wait to shoot. Probably don't have another 47 years.....:)

Bayou

[Murphy]

Bayou52,

You have what appears to be a Pre Model 10 "C Series" (5 Screw) K Frame. The C Series of K frames began in 1948 and ended in 1967. Given the serial number and a bit of Google work, it was built around 1950-1951. Hope this is of some help.

By the way, a VERY fine specimen and a great heirloom you have there my friend.

Murphy

[Bayou52]

Thanks, Murphy, for your kind words and great research info. That really helps my understanding.

And thanks Everyone, for all of the comments and info! I now know what this is.

And I think Dad would be pleased....

Bayou

[FergusonTO35]

My 10-5 and 10-10 like 4.3 grains HP-38 and any 150-160 grain boolit I can find. Easy shooting load that shoots to the sights with decent punch.

[Bayou52]

Thanks, Ferguson, for that load data.

Bayou

[shooting on a shoestring]

Ok it's got a turn ring. Nothing says it's unfired. No mention of original box.
Yee Haw! It's a shooter!
Load it up and enjoy that glorious SA trigger!
There's none finer.
That DA will be smooth as butter.
That fine revolver is from the apex of S&W quality!

[Bayou52]

Thanks, shooting!^^^^^

[psweigle]

Can I have it? Load that beauty up and shoot it. Uncle jumbo seems to be spot-on. A PERFECT heirloom gun as stated.

[Bayou52]

^^^^Thank you, Sir!^^^^

[Mossy Oak]

You sure have a dandy there, they were designed to shoot lead bollits, and they are fine shooters. Don't shoot any hot loads!

Joe

[Bayou52]

Thanks, Joe -

What you say about shooting lead bullets is precisely what is printed on the inside of the top of the box which I also still have. The box mentions that barrel life will be longer with lead bullets.

I'll have to pick up some lead cast to reload for it.

I suppose plated would be OK, too.

I'll use no more than a light to medium, plinking load like others have posted, above.

This is great info considering at this time just yesterday, I knew virtually nothing about Dad's revolver!

Thanks -

Bayou

[bedbugbilly]

Got the the Smith & Wesson forum - costs nothing to sign up - make similar post. No disrespect to this site, but there are a lot of very knowledgeable collectors over there that can probably provide you with a lot of good info on it. You have a nice revolver there made even more special by the fact that it was your Dad's. All of my Smith's are "vintage" - the earliest I have ia s 1920 mesh K frame M & P Target Model and it gets shot every once in a while. My favorite M & P K frame is my 1952 38 Special with a 5" barrel because it was made the same year I was born. All of mine get a steady diet of my cast reloads.

Here is the link to the S & W site - post it under the hand ejector section.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php

Good luck and enjoy it - and I hope you'll keep it in the family!

[35remington]

The wide land rifling on Smiths of that vintage was actually specifically intended for the lead bullet. Power levels with standard 38 loads are more than adequate for any intended use so don't worry about not shooting Plus P.

While not a Smith and Wesson forum, the guys here have given you the right responses on exactly what you asked for and also what you really needed to know.

Be kind and give the gun a little oil on the wear spots before shooting. There is no good reason to shoot a revolver devoid of lubricant just because everyone else neglects to.

[rintinglen]

187854
I have a rough 1946 Gun similar to yours (you have a much nicer gun) but mine is fine shooter and I have had a lot of fun with it over the years. It is my travel gun, the one that stays in the motel, and which will not trouble me if it gets stuck in a property room for a year or two.
I have a set of the Thailand made grips on it now.

[texasnative46]

Bayou52,

IF I had that VERY NICE revolver, I would acquire a bullet mold for a 200 grain or heavier boolit & load it in front of 3.4 grains of Unique & carry it concealed OTB.
(I load a similar round for my 1960s era S&W .38SPL snubnose revolver & it "collapsed" a 200+ pound feral boar at <10M, that was trying to "have me for lunch" about 8 years ago. = GYD, too.)

yours, tex

[Bayou52]

Thanks for all of the great information, Guys. From id'ing the gun, to its maintenance and its shooting, it's all greatly appreciated!

I've learned a great deal from y'all!

Bayou

[Outpost75]

Good info from all. Most likely your revolver was targeted at the factory using 158-grain LRN ammo, because the front sight does not appear to be high enough to zero with a 200-grain bullet, comparing yours with Victory models in .380-200 made for the British Purchasing Commission.

Here is some eye candy of vintage .38 Special ammunition from the same period in which your gun was made and used.

187959187960187961

[Bayou52]

Thanks, Outpost!

I think you are spot on about that 158 grain LRN bullet for this revolver. Dad's original box containing the revolver had about 15 R-P LRN vintage 158 grain bullets in it.

Just a guess, but I'll bet Dad had a 50 count box of bullets. I'm guessing he shot about 35 through the gun, and the remaining ones are what's left in the box. I'd never known him to shoot the gun, but back in the 50's, he might've shot it on New Year's Eve.

So, I doubt if this revolver has even a full box of rounds through it.

Great info, and greatly appreciated!

Bayou52

[Outpost75]

Factory .38 Special ammo was loaded with 3.5 grains of Bullseye powder for many, many years and that is the only load you need, whether loading commercial soft-swaged bullets or casting your own. Using a double-end 146-grain cast wadcutter like the Saeco #348, this produces a "full charge wadcutter", approximating the velocity of the 158-grain LRN "service" load, but with the more effective wadcutter bullet. A good reference article about this load can be found at:

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

187962187963187964

[Bayou52]

Thanks for that great loading information, Outpost!

It is greatly appreciated -

Bayou52

[FergusonTO35]

I carry a 150 grain Lyman wadcutter over 3.1 grains Bullseye and Federal primer in my little S&W 637. Easy to shoot, accurate, and a consistent 712 fps out of the little 1-7/8" barrel. I bet your revolver would like it too.

[texasnative46]

Bayou52,

IF it was me, I'd TRY some 200 grain lead boolits in your "snubbie". = My RB Model 10 shot the 200 grain "Super Police" loads FINE out to 25M, which is what I regard as "average & appropriate" self-defense range.
(Your mileage may vary.)

Btw, "in the days of yore", when I was a railroad detective, I liked the 200 grain soft lead boolits & at moderate velocity, as they didn't ricochet AND they were GOOD STOPPERS on human-size targets.
(The only time that I fired my revolver against a living creature was against a VERY LARGE & NASTY-TEMPERED stray dog that was "going after me" in the rail-yard. - One shot at about 10M = GYD.)

yours, tex

[Bayou52]

Great info, Tex and Ferguson -

Y'all don't realize how much I appreciate all of the insights you've departed to me.

The best part about an heirloom is the memories from whom it came...

Thanks, Guys!

Bayou52

[texasnative46]

Bayou52,

EXACTLY. - I have an old "long Tom" 12-gauge single barrel by River Arms (that's likely worth at least 10 or 15 dollars) but it was given to me by my GF when I was 9YO & he was 86YO. - Money would not buy it. To me alone, it's priceless.

yours, tex

[Bayou52]

We think alike, Tex!

Thanks, Bayou

[Petrol & Powder]

Bayou52 - As has been stated, clearly a pre model 10. I think someone guessed about 1950-5 production ?

Very Nice Gun, by the way !

[Bayou52]

^^^^Thanks for your kind remarks, P & P!

They are appreciated.

Bayou

[stu1ritter]

Bayou52, mine is serial number C160161 and it shipped in 1950. I also know that C1659xx shipped June 1951, so you can put yourself in there somewhere. This is the K frame and is considered the Pre Model 10 but is officially called the 38 M&P. The K frame dates from 1899 when it was called the 38 Military & Police 1st Model (Model 1899 Army-Navy Revolver). There is no reason why your revolver should not be shot. Avoid +P ammunition as S&W state that +P is only for Model marked guns. I shoot mine all the time. Looks like ours are in about similar condition.

Stu
http://tinyurl.com/hhtq3j8

[Bayou52]

^^^^Great info, Stu! Thanks so much. Looks like our toys are close family relatives! Great pic.

Glad to hear you shoot yours often!

Bayou52