Lyman Great Plains Rifle VS. Great Plains Hunter

[warboar_21]

Gents I am looking at buying a new blackpowder rifle. I currently have a CVA Hawken in 50Cal but would like to step up to the 54Cal. in a faster twist rifle. I have thought about buying a barrel for my Encore but i'm not a fan of the inlines. It would be a cheaper way to go but they just don't look right to me. I am really wanting a left handed rifle as I have been on a left handed buying spree but they don't make the Great Plains Hunter in a left handed model.

So this brings me to the question. Is there any difference between the two other than the Hunter model is drilled and tapped for a peep sight? On Lyman's website they really don't appear to have anything different to say about them other than the peep sight.
Honestly the peep sight is somewhat attractive to me as it would aid in the accuracy dept. If it's the only difference and i'm able to have the left handed rifle drilled and tapped locally I might go that route. If there are other differences that are worth it I will go for the hunter model.
I plan on using this for Deer and Elk this year if i'm lucky enough to draw a muzzleloader tag. My CVA has taken Whitetail deer in Indiana but I have never used it out west. The twist rate on it I believe is 1:48" which is ok but not great I guess. I was wanting to go with the 1:32" Fast twist so I could take advantage of more modern sabots or other offerings.

Thanks in advance

[bubba.50]

the Grear Plains Hunter models have 1 in 32 inch twist for shootin' sabots & conicals, the Great Plains Rifle has the 1 in 60 inch twist for shootin' roundballs.

[mooman76]

54 cal roundballs would be good enough for elk if you do your part.

[charlie b]

The faster twist GPH also has shallow rifling for the conicals and sabot. GPR has deeper grooves for patched round ball.

[Mr Peabody]

I've owned 4 Great Plains over the years. 50's and 54's. As heavy as they are I still wouldn't like the recoil sensation from a conical. The 54 with a patch ball is accurate and a very good killer, even on Elk.

[54bore]

I just bought a brand new Lyman GP Hunter 54 1:32 fast twist, i set it up with the Lyman 57GPR Tang Peep, and Lyman 17AEU Globe front sight. I despise the sharp Butt plate, a guy could probably shave with the top of it (No joke) That will be changing soon! This new rifle is nice but in my honest opinion does not compare to my TC Hawken's and Renegades, Fit and finish is So So, My old TC's are far superior, I was able to choose between 2 New Rifles in the Boxes, Glad i was able to do that as I didn't like the wood in the wrist area on the other gun. I would much rather of had a Green Mountain LRH barrel in 54 Cal bedded in a Renegade stock, but i was tired of waiting on finding a GM LRH 54 barrel. Accurate molds is currently making me a .54 Cal custom Paper Patch 2 Cavity Iron Mold, 2 different weight/nose configurations. I personally like a big BOOLIT with a decent meplat, they hit like the 'Hammer of Thor' Round Ball would be my LAST choice for Elk, other than bangin targets i have ZERO use for Round Ball, A TURD would have a better Ballistic Coefficiency, i'll stick with my Paper Patched and sized HAMMERS for Game. I just recently bought some .530 Round Ball to try in my .54 New Englander, also some .350 for my 36 Cal, and some .490 for my Lyman GP Pistol, i am looking forward to messing with it this spring/summer, but that is definitely where Round Ball will end with me.

[charlie b]

I got my GPH used at a local gun shop and I like it. I have always shot heavy recoil rifles wearing a shoulder pad (mine is a Past brand) so the buttplate does not bother me and it looks good. I like the lines of the Great Plains rifles better than the regular Hawkens.

I would rather have had a TC with Green Mountain LRH barrel as well, especially if I could have found one in .45cal. But, they are difficult to find.

I am still working on loads for the GPH but round ball as well as sabot show promise. Got some PP bullets to try out in it too.

PS I do not hunt, just plink at stuff on the range

[Good Cheer]

Just something to think about...
My percussion GPR was purchased used and sent off to have a smaller caliber fast twist barrel fitted.
187688
If you find an older good quality GPR for a good price and have the barrel of your choice fitted then you can have it your way and cash left over for all that other stuff you'll have to have.

[rodwha]

A large caliber round ball does excellently out to 125 yds without a whole lot of drop that's worth worrying about. However the wind drift is something else!

And a .54 cal ball does quite well on elk out to 125 yds. Plenty of evidence on the traditional forums...

My .490" ball with a BC of 0.069 weighing 177 grns pushed by 70 grns of 3F T7/Olde E produces around 1825 fps and at 1000' it is 2.0" high at 50 yds with 2.4" of drift (10 mph 90* breeze), 1.8" high at 75 yds with 5.6" of drift, dead on at 100 yds with 10.2" of drift, and at 125 yds is 3.7" low with 15.9" of drift.

A .490" ball will almost always give a complete pass through on deer beyond 75 yds with a boiler room shot given a broadside shot, and there are some who hunt elk with a .50 cal ball keeping their shots under 75 yds. I'd use a conical for anything bigger than a mule deer though, and my Deerhunter does well with that same powder charge pushing a 320 grn REAL, which is what I'd use given an opportunity at elk. Many are more comfortable with a .54 cal ball for elk hunting as their minimum.

[54bore]

A large caliber round ball does excellently out to 125 yds without a whole lot of drop that's worth worrying about. However the wind drift is something else!

And a .54 cal ball does quite well on elk out to 125 yds. Plenty of evidence on the traditional forums...

My .490" ball with a BC of 0.069 weighing 177 grns pushed by 70 grns of 3F T7/Olde E produces around 1825 fps and at 1000' it is 2.0" high at 50 yds with 2.4" of drift (10 mph 90* breeze), 1.8" high at 75 yds with 5.6" of drift, dead on at 100 yds with 10.2" of drift, and at 125 yds is 3.7" low with 15.9" of drift.

A .490" ball will almost always give a complete pass through on deer beyond 75 yds with a boiler room shot given a broadside shot, and there are some who hunt elk with a .50 cal ball keeping their shots under 75 yds. I'd use a conical for anything bigger than a mule deer though, and my Deerhunter does well with that same powder charge pushing a 320 grn REAL, which is what I'd use given an opportunity at elk. Many are more comfortable with a .54 cal ball for elk hunting as their minimum.

I am definitely NOT saying it can't be done, been plenty of elk killed with RB's over the years to prove that, i am just saying in my personal opinion there are better tools for the job, a big heavy Maxi Ball bullet comes to mind! No doubt in my mind i could kill an elk with a good solid baseball bat, or my Estwing claw hammer, but again there's better choices.

[rodwha]

I am definitely NOT saying it can't be done, been plenty of elk killed with RB's over the years to prove that, i am just saying in my personal opinion there are better tools for the job, a big heavy Maxi Ball bullet comes to mind! No doubt in my mind i could kill an elk with a good solid baseball bat, or my Estwing claw hammer, but again there's better choices.

I hear ya! If I were elk hunting I'd want something with a fair amount of range that isn't so effected by wind. But then an elk hunt would be a once in a lifetime event for me unless I moved. It wouldn't be because of the projectile per se, but the range and drift. But then some hint in really thick stuff...

I bought a barrel with deeper grooves meant for PRB as a stalking rifle figuring 100 yds was about max for deer that would still be descent at 75 yds were it a little breezy.

I've merely broken the barrel in and haven't worked on finding an accurate load. It's not good as is giving 3-4" at 50 yds. But with a felt wad and a 320 grn REAL gave me less than 1" at that distance and will be what I use through it if I find my barrel won't shoot a ball that well. And with a BC of 0.189 vs 0.069 150 yds would certainly be within reason (on paper).

[warboar_21]

Thanks for the advice so far. This is why I love this site. Wealth of knowledge. I just found a website that sells the Great Plains Hunter in Left Hand so that will be what I buy.

[54bore]

If you put a Round Ball through the boiler room of an elk (which is precisely where you are suppose to put it!) its gonna die plain n simple, no argument there!! I just personally feel there are better projectile choices for an elk in particular. I shot a nice 5 pt bull behind the front shoulder with a 7 Rem Mag no more than 75-100 yards, the first shot i thought i had missed?? After recoil had settled and i got him back in the scope there was no Reaction whatsoever, he just stood there? I shot again, and again, for the exact same spot behind the foreleg, after the 3rd shot i seen the bull take a step backward going uphill and then seen his hind end start to wobble, i knew then he was dead on his feet and i never shot again, upon skinning and quartering him i had hit the bull all 3 times in a group no more than a tennis ball, looking back that bull was dead the first shot but i didnt know it by his reaction, there was none! At least that i seen when the rifle came back down, No doubt if someone else had been there they would have seen him hunch up. Elk can suck up a lot of lead!!! I have shot 1 spike bull, and 3 Cows The 6 years i have lived here in Idaho, This last year i killed a BIG tank of a Cow with my 6.5 Creedmoor at 325 ranged yards, she fell to her belly immediately like butchering a beef, the only elk i have ever personally seen do that, ended up that i had hit high and broke her back. Elk are incredibly tough critters!! The only reason i shot this last years elk with the little Creedmoor is i was deer hunting, i had drew a Cow tag but was not expecting to see an elk in the area i was stand hunting whitetail that day, when she stepped out over on the hillside it was either do or dont, i knew the little rifle was capable as long as i did my part, I actually missed that cow, i did NOT intend to shoot her in the back bone, i meant to hit her behind the front shoulder, i got DAMN lucky that deal didnt go bad! Do i advise a 6.5 Creedmoor for elk? No i dont, again i feel there are far better choices, same as i feel toward a Round Ball for elk.

[bubba.50]

the problem is yer little pointy bullets was whizzin' through him too fast to leave any energy behind. you don't have that problem with a large caliber roundball or maxi-hammer movin' at about 1/2 the speed. like the difference 'tween gettin' hit in the ribs with an icepick versus a sledgehammer. both'll kill ya but you'll notice it sooner with the sledge. and it won't take as many licks.

like waksupi's sig line says "forget all you know about jacketed bullets. this is a whole new ball game."

[54bore]

the problem is yer little pointy bullets was whizzin' through him too fast to leave any energy behind. you don't have that problem with a large caliber roundball or maxi-hammer movin' at about 1/2 the speed. like the difference 'tween gettin' hit in the ribs with an icepick versus a sledgehammer. both'll kill ya but you'll notice it sooner with the sledge. and it won't take as many licks.

like waksupi's sig line says "forget all you know about jacketed bullets. this is a whole new ball game."

VERY WELL SAID bubba.50!!! Ive seen a 30-30 do way more damage to critters than the super magnums. The 30-30 slows down and unloads all of its energy in the body cavity, where the HOTROD magnums with premium bullets zip right through

[warboar_21]

Does anyone shoot the 450gr Lyman great plains bullet from the fast twist hunter? If so how do they perform as far as accuracy and on game? Also do you use pure lead or an alloy mixture?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[Fly]

I bought a GPR kit in .54 cal. I then bought a .50 cal GPH barrel. I can change the barrels out & have both.

Fly

[Good Cheer]

Golly I'd really like to have another small bore but this time medium twist instead of fast twist.
Maybe a .36 set up to used paper patched .38 pistol molds as well as round ball.
Or maybe a .38 bore to shoot 38-55 molds and .375 round ball.
Or maybe a medium twist .42 bore to paper patch stuff like these.
188119

[warboar_21]

I bought a GPR kit in .54 cal. I then bought a .50 cal GPH barrel. I can change the barrels out & have both.

Fly
I did not know you could do such a thing. I would still need to buy a Lyman rifle though.

[charlie b]

Yep, only restriction is you can't change from percussion to flint.

Someone in here also wrote off to Interarms and got a .45 cal barrel for his GP. Don't remember who or how much it was. Not sure if they would do other calibers/twists. Might be worth asking. Heck, I might write to them about another barrel once I figure out my .50

[OverMax]

I kinda think many underestimate the capability of a 54s patched ball on big game. From experience more than once. Northern deer shot with a 54s ball anyplace in the rib cage. The shock factor has to be overwhelming. Even if somehow their able to hobble away such deer hardly ever manage to move beyond their shooters line of sight.

[charlie b]

Forgot the other point, left hand. My .50 GPH is a lefty. Probably why I got it cheaper at the local gun shop.

[Good Cheer]

Tried to get a lefty flinter fast twist barrel. But they didn't bother making any for left handed customers.
Got the fifty RB barrel back when they were cheap. What to turn it into is a continuing source of fun speculation.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Good Cheer,

What caliber is pictured? Where did you get the barrel made? About how much did it run you?

I wouldn't mind doing something like that, but a 15/16 across-the-flats would get mighty heavy in a smaller bore. Maybe an octagon-to-round? I'd like a .40 or .45 with a 1:20 twist. The Whitworth and Volunteer rifles are all so spendy. Seems like you should be able to get a used Hawken as a platform for a custom barrel that could be far less than the grand they want for those Parker-Hales.

[nicholst55]

I bought a .54 GPH, and later added a RB slow-twist barrel. The fast-twist barrel would shoot into about 4" at 100 yards with 80 grains of 2F Goex shooting conicals, with me resting my elbows on the shooting bench. I hunted with that combo one time, but never got a shot. I switched to PRBs after that, and never looked back. I also have what began life as a .54 flinchlock Renegade that I added an L&R replacement lock and a Green Mountain PRB slow-twist barrel to. I shoot it more than the Lyman, although it's been several years since I've fired either rifle.

[jdb3]

My hunting partner hunts exclusively with a 54 muzzle loader here in Alaska. He had two barrels made for it so he could use either a round ball or conical. After a few years he put the conical barrel away and stayed with the round ball barrel. It has killed a whole lot of deer, caribou and moose over the last 25 years or so. You shouldn't be under gunned with the 54 round ball. I've had a Lyman Great Plains for over 30 years and it has always worked as advertised. Jim

[Good Cheer]

Good Cheer,

What caliber is pictured? Where did you get the barrel made? About how much did it run you?

I wouldn't mind doing something like that, but a 15/16 across-the-flats would get mighty heavy in a smaller bore. Maybe an octagon-to-round? I'd like a .40 or .45 with a 1:20 twist. The Whitworth and Volunteer rifles are all so spendy. Seems like you should be able to get a used Hawken as a platform for a custom barrel that could be far less than the grand they want for those Parker-Hales.

Hey there.
That's a forty bore 16" twist made by Ed Rayl.
The extra narrow lands are for using mechanically fitted boolits.
Narrow lands makes it easier to run the boolits through the engraving die.
In retrospect having wider lands and a .41 bore would have been more to my liking.
:rolleyes:

Then again, maybe it could get rebored to use .410 diameter boolits paper patched!
[smilie=w:

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Hey there.
That's a forty bore 16" twist made by Ed Rayl.
The extra narrow lands are for using mechanically fitted boolits.
Narrow lands makes it easier to run the boolits through the engraving die.
In retrospect having wider lands and a .41 bore would have been more to my liking.
:rolleyes:

Then again, maybe it could get rebored to use .410 diameter boolits paper patched!
[smilie=w:

Hmm. That might be the way to go. A sort of "poor man's Whitworth". Just a Hawken with a custom fast-twist barrel. Beats the $1300-$1700 price tag on the factory made whitworth/volunteers.

I suppose a .45 with a 30" barrel 15/16" across the flats would be a do-able hunting gun with a fair bit of weight to soak up recoil.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=charlie b;3952773]Yep, only restriction is you can't change from percussion to flint.

patent breech?.......bummer .. cheap n nasty nipple drum setup (old CVA) has its advantages ----just screw the drum out .....screw in a touch hole liner ..yer in business..!

[Good Cheer]

Hmm. That might be the way to go. A sort of "poor man's Whitworth". Just a Hawken with a custom fast-twist barrel. Beats the $1300-$1700 price tag on the factory made whitworth/volunteers.

I suppose a .45 with a 30" barrel 15/16" across the flats would be a do-able hunting gun with a fair bit of weight to soak up recoil.


A low priced option is to have an old sewer pipe .50 TC Renegade rebored to .52 bore and shoot off the shelf fifty molds paper patched.

What's not to like about shooting a 50-90 with caseless ammo! [smilie=w:

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

A low priced option is to have an old sewer pipe .50 TC Renegade rebored to .52 bore and shoot off the shelf fifty molds paper patched.

What's not to like about shooting a 50-90 with caseless ammo! [smilie=w:

Well maybe even lower-cost would be to rebore my .45 to .46 or .47 and do the same with off-the-shelf .45 molds (pistol if .46, rifle molds if .47)

My next question is where to find sights for such an animal? I don't know where to look for aftermarket ladder sights.

[rodwha]

Well maybe even lower-cost would be to rebore my .45 to .46 or .47 and do the same with off-the-shelf .45 molds (pistol if .46, rifle molds if .47)

My next question is where to find sights for such an animal? I don't know where to look for aftermarket ladder sights.

Dunno specifically but I do know Track of The Wolf and Dixie Gun Works has all sorts of BP parts.

[Good Cheer]

Well maybe even lower-cost would be to rebore my .45 to .46 or .47 and do the same with off-the-shelf .45 molds (pistol if .46, rifle molds if .47)

My next question is where to find sights for such an animal? I don't know where to look for aftermarket ladder sights.

Once't upon a time I was threatening to use those heavy flat bases like are used in the .476 and .480 revolvers. But went with a .52 bore instead.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello All,

I am very satisfied with my .50 GPH shooting my RCBS 45-300-FN in a sabot, so much that when I stumbled across a .54 GPH barrel for a reasonable price I couldn't pass it up. Found a used stock, installed & loaded the same bullet sized to .454 with a sabot. They both shoot fine.
I know some states do not allow sabots, I did shoot Power Belts from the .50 before switching to the 45-300-FN. They seem to shoot well also.

AntiqueSledMan.

[rfd]

all depends on the prime purpose of the gun. a GPR can be barrel swapped and become a GPH, and vice-versa. changing investarms hooked breech barrels can be done in a few minutes, tops. so have as many different barrel calibers and twists as ya like. but what can't change is the type of ignition system. one feller in our club bought a caplock .50 GPR (1:60) and added a .50 GPH barrel (1:32) and then a big ball .54 GPR barrel (1:60). so many choices. geez.

i couldn't find a .54 GPR flint kit so i bought a .50 kit and had bobby hoyt ream it to .54 with .012 radius groove 1:56 rifling ... ah, so much mo' bettah for patched balls! this is a tad better rifling arrangement, considering the short 32" tube, and a slower twist would only be better for a much longer tube.

i do believe that a .530 well greased patched ball, with a hefty charge of swiss 3f can do it all in north america at sane distances to 100 yards. for me, these are all traditional sidelock rifles for patched balls. i like to treat them as that and have no need for a conical. and of course ymmv! 217441