1916 Bsa Smle

[KCSO]

A fellow stopped in at my camp at our Summer shoot and asked if I was still interested in Enfields. When I said yes he said he had an old Ennfield that he wanted to sell and I ended up buying it from him for $200. The rifle is a 1916 BSA SMLE mk III * and sometime during it's life it acquired a Fajen stock. I took it home and removed the rear sight and trimmed the front sight down and fitted a 3/8" dovetail white bead front sight. I checkered the sight base and the new lyman bead sight base was cross hatched at 50 lpi. The rear sight was replaced with a 5D peep for a 30-30 mounted on the right side with the base reversed. This gives me just enough elevation for my liightest cast loads and I can still crank it down to 2" high at 100 for my hunting loads with a 190 bullet at 2200 fps.

Now the best part is that this rifle came over after WWI and was taken care of!!! The bore still has sharp rifling with no pitting. The leade looks like new and the bore measures 304/311. It was cleaned and oiled when I got it and it only took an overnight soak and a bristle brush to remove all traces of copper. I will have to glass bed the fore stock yet but the first trip to the range showed that the gun is a shooter. the first three at 50 went into 1 1/4" and would have been better but I was usinng some old ammo loaded with old (1950 vintage) Lyman gas checks and you could tell by the flyers ( 4 in 1/2" and one high) that the gas checks were shedding.

Now I have the urge to flatten and checker the bolt handle and add a 3 blade rear sight, after I put on my 6 round magazine and brass retainer chain. Then I willl be ready for the Ghost and the Darkness.

[Bigjohn]

NICE work! The old SMLE's certainly clean up and dress up well when someone who knows what their doing, does the work.

With further good care and attention you will get a lifetime of service from the Ol' girl.

John

[JeffinNZ]

Nice butt (the rifle I mean). I bet there are not too many of them in the US. Lots in NZ and I imagine AU in sporter config.

Good choice of front sight. I like a bead for field work.

[KCSO]

I'll bet there are as many SMLE's in the USA, they been selling them surplus here since WWI was over and if I remember right Savage was the #2 or #3 producer in WWII. It would be interesting to find out. As to the bead sight whan it is for me I just dig i the scrap drawer and use what I can find. Since I have to re bed the forestock I might just thin it and shorten it and put a sling loop on the barrel. Then agan if I don't get caught up in the shop I will probably end up deer hunting with my old Krag again.

[Bigjohn]

If the bore is in as good a condition as you say, it is certainly a canidate for shooting cast boolits.

Check out some of JeffinNZ's recent postings for various load details.

:drinks:

John.

[Buckshot]

..............At one time there was a glut of SMLE's on the U.S. Market. Similarly Swede Mausers. On the Swedes local retailers footballed them on sale for $79-$89 and EVERYONE had them available. Kimber even did wholesale slaughter upon them converting many, many hundreds into what I call garage sporters.

Similarly the poor ole SMLE's were becoming stale on the market so enterprising outfits began creating never never land oddities out of them like "Tanker SMLE's and the conjured up MkVII Jungle Carbines.

...............Buckshot

[KCSO]

At one point 1/2 the world was armed with SMLE's. If I remember right, India, Pakistan, Turkey, Greece, Burma, China, Siam, Australia, New Zealand, England, Canada, Norway, Africa, Egypt... who did I miss. This may be heresy to the 903 fan's but the Enfield in it's various marks is probably the best military bolt ever made and the one made the longest and used the most. I think that it even has the Mauser beat for overall use.

My particular interest in these came when I lived in Northern Minnesota and they came trickling over the border as cheap (19.95) sporters. By 1973 I was shooting a #4 target rifle wet up with parts and tuning instructions from Elwood Epps. I've had a couple of these around for many years but the best one I ever had was a replica of Fredrick Russell Burnham's rifle. That was one of the nicest sporting 303's I ever had and I am sorry I sold it, but by the time I got rid of it the barrel was shot out with cheap cordite loads.

At that time I could go into the local hardware store and buy surplus 303's from a big wooden box and it was 2 or 3 cents a round count 'em and sack 'em yourself. We use to pull the rounds apart to play with the sticks of cordite and the bulllets were packed with kapoc in the tips. GEM stores had rifles for as little as 15 bucks and factory hunting ammo was $5.69 a box for Remington 215 soft points.

[JeffinNZ]

They have argueably the best open sights I have ever shot especially if you can get a No1 MkIII (not MkIII*) like I have with the windage adjustable rear sight.

You know, in my youthful days of shooting when I was merrily being brainwashed that new and fast was best, I swore I would never own a LE rifle as they were butt ugly. Now I own 4 LE rifles in various configs and shoot mostly 'slow' cast bullets. Go figure.

The poor old SMLE/No.4 cop a bit of flak for not being tack drivers but in fairness they were not designed to be. They are battle rifles. It is not hard to get 2 MOA out of them but any better than that, regularly, is getting rare.

I have an article coming up in NZ Guns and Hunting soon on accuracy and the Lee Enfield; maybe I should submit it to 'Castpics'.

[KCSO]

Well I had to do it I trimmed a magazine for my SMLE. I hope the photo's show what I am talking about...
First I removed the innards and the fron magazine lip spring from the old magazine. Then I trimmed the magazine by 3/4" leaving just 1/8" more meat at the back of the magazine than the front. This is to make a magazine with the same dimensions as the Jeffrey sporting rifle. I then filed everything square and then took the belt sander and gently rounded the bottom of the magazine. Then I cut a rough bottom for the now bottomless mag and silver soldered (this can be brazed or welded also but don't try soflt solder it won't hold) the bottom to the mag and trimmed the excess with a hacksaw. A file and a belt sander smoothed the bottom to the proper dimensions and a fine belt in the sander smoothed everything up. I went the extra step and soldered on a brass retainer chain but these aren't really necessary. The magazine is now ready to either polish and blue or give it a coat of flat black paint.

[Bigjohn]

Throughout my years in the shooting sports, I have seen a LOT of work done on various models of the .303"; some of it outstanding but a lot of it is shameful (bubba'd).

What I will say about the Ol' girls is that when the get dressed up really well they are a sight to behold.

Also there have been many changes in calibre from the .22Rf upto and including the 45/70 Govt (that I am aware of); and they have stood up to it. During WWI, the Turks even modified some of the captured rifles to 8mm Mauser and used them.

However; if kept within their pressure margins these rifle will give a lifetime of service to you.

John.

[Newfoundlander2]

Did you cut the mag with the lever on the right hand side down????????? I'm prepared to pay $125.00 for one of these intact rare mags.

[KCSO]

Intact is the word, I only cut damaged magazines. The bottom was rusted almost through.

[Buckshot]

Throughout my years in the shooting sports, I have seen a LOT of work done on various models of the .303"; some of it outstanding but a lot of it is shameful (bubba'd).

What I will say about the Ol' girls is that when the get dressed up really well they are a sight to behold.

Also there have been many changes in calibre from the .22Rf upto and including the 45/70 Govt (that I am aware of); and they have stood up to it. During WWI, the Turks even modified some of the captured rifles to 8mm Mauser and used them.

However; if kept within their pressure margins these rifle will give a lifetime of service to you.

John.

..............I have an article from 'Rifle" magazine detailing a SMLE conversion to 45-90, and one to 444 Marlin. The guy doing the 45-90 was trying to prove that the British gunmakers could have used the Enfield to supply folks with an African big game capable rifle.

..................Buckshot

[KCSO]

I converted my Gibb's rifle to 45-90 because the longer shell fed better. I actually got it to feed 5 from the magazine after i went to the longer shell. I also loaded the gun with some loads that would definatly kill and elephant, if you could get him to shooot the rifle! I ran a 535 Postell cast fro 1/2 and 1/2 w/w and lino to 1900 fps and still had no excessive case head expansion. A 405 would go 2000 easy. I will have to post a picture of that gun when it was finished.

[Freightman]

I have a #4 mk1 that has been sporterised with a S&K ccope mount has a good barrel but I am just not into the cut up ones. What I am asking where to find a 444 barrel for it?

[Bigjohn]

Just when you thought it was safe to read the forum, along comes someone like me with something different to add.

As we have been discussing SMLE .303" rifles and customising work done on them, this will take it to another extreme.

This weekend, I had a visitation from a friend of mine who lives north of here and amongst other items he bought with him on this trip was his version of a KIFARU Rambling Rifle. This is an idea which he managed to pick up from some where for a lite handi multi calibre rifle was packs up reall small.

7952
All to go, all you need

7953
Contents

7954
Assembled

7955
Not real purty but it works.

7956
Action alone.

Currently able to shoot; .303" British, 7.62 x 39mm, .308" (Cast Boolit loads only), 7mm (not certain which case), .270 (again not certain which case) and any other calibre for which a barrel is available and can be loaded within safe pressure curves.

The object is to have one rifle suitable for multiple uses and compact.

John.

[KCSO]

Here is my 45-90 Gibb's rifle. The butt stock was replaced and a recoil pad added as the issue stock was brutal with heavy loads. The rear sight si a T/C sight and the front is a large gold bead. The gun will put 5 shots into 2" at 100 yards and willhandle more load than I can.

[KCSO]

That would be a heck of a gun for a bush pilot or a survival weapon in a jeep.

[Bigjohn]

I know he has a .410 shotgun barrel which would fit the action as I gave it to him. So it sort of makes it an alrounder.

John.

[Frank46]

Big John, interesting concept rifle. Doesn't look to difficult to duplicate and of course there are plenty of barrels out there to play with. Like the way it breaks down and stows in the case. One could scrounge up one of the ishapore .410 guage barrels maybe from gun parts (numrich) and away you go. Frank

[Bigjohn]

Big John, interesting concept rifle. Doesn't look to difficult to duplicate and of course there are plenty of barrels out there to play with. Like the way it breaks down and stows in the case. One could scrounge up one of the ishapore .410 guage barrels maybe from gun parts (numrich) and away you go. Frank

The ONLY limiting factors are; Imagination & action strength. The barrels are totally free floating and lock in place using a modified SAVAGE barrel nut system.

Most of the Indian (Ishapore) .410" barrels are chamber for the .410"/.303"; basically a blown out .303" case. They were also popular here downunder for a while when not much else was available as they could be made from things on hand like surplus .303 ammo.

Also the .303" case was necked down to a whole series of "Wildcats" (?) and built on surplus action post the wars. These were also popular until other american etc cartridges/rifles become available.

John.

[JeffinNZ]

Hey John! Tell your mate he needs a Pygmy barrel too!!!

[NoDakJak]

I have just begun experimenting with a #4 Mk1 that is chambered for the 25-303. I know almost nothing about the rifles history other than it came from an estate in Canada several years ago. The workmanship appears to be pretty good. I had assumed that it had a new commercial barrel but a closer inspection tonight indicates that the rebated crown may hide a barrel liner. It is drilled and tapped for a custom (cobbled) scope mount I installed a Tasco four power. It had new appearing beech bett and cut down fore end. The butt was about an inch and a half too short for me so I replaced it with an old Fajen Monte Carlo butt that had been trimmed down for my use. I have used an assortment of dies to cobble up ammo for it at this point. My initial loads have been 250-3000 starting loads with Remington 87 grain 25-20 FN. I fully intend to wring it out as a cast boolit shooter. If I can figure out how to use this new digital camera and post pictures I will display the rifle. Does anyone want to cry? I bought it in new condition for $125 as no one in this area wanted a SMLE chamberede for a wildcat. Yowza! Neil

[Bigjohn]

Jeff; I'm already with the program. I had a barrel from a No.1 MkIII* which someone had attempted some gunsmithing on by recutting the thread and shortening the chamber. I passed this on with the hint for a new calibre option for the KIFARU.

NoDakJak; there are several sources here downunder for .25/303 7/8x14 diesets if your interested.

http://www.westernfirearms.com.au

http://www.jansa.com.au

I could go through some of the Australian reloading manuals and PM the load data.

I believe this thread is demonstrating just how versatile the LEE ENFIELD actions are and there is still a lot of options as yet unexplored.

John.

[Frank46]

Big John,interesting info regarding the .410/303 shotgun case. Guess if you are just wanting something bad enough someone will find a suitable working solution. Frank

[NoDakJak]

Big John: I would certainly appreciate any loading data for the 25-303 tht you may be able to provide as data is scarce here. Most information that I have been able to find says to use 250-3000 data. That actually makes a lot of sense since they are both of near capacity and operate at fairly close pressures but I would like to have tested data. I do not know what particular version of the 25-303 this is and may have to have custom dies made.
I also have a 22-303 built on a Siamese Mauser action. I discovered that this particular version is actually a rimmed version of the 220 Swift. I use Swift dies and starting load data for loading it. Works very well.
I have a couple of Sportco Martinis built on the Cadet action. One is a 22 LR that has a crossbolt safety mistalled in the lever and the other is a 25-20 with a rather light weight barrel and a "Field" scope mount. A couple years ago Iused the 22 exclusively for rabbit hunting but the dull winter sun and well camaflauged bunnies versus my aging eyes and poor open sights didn't fare too well. The 25-20 with an old Weaver 4X mounted actually works much better. Loads have to be kept light as the firing pin has never been bushed.
Is the 25 Super still produced in Australia? Any loading data on that would be appreciated as I intend to build a rimmed version of it using the 222R brass on a Martini Cadet. A wildcat version of the 25 Super was produced in this country in the early 1960's and named the 25 Wooters Tooter. This was later renamed the 25 Copperhead.
Thanks for any assistance. Neil

[Bigjohn]

NoDakJak (Neil), If your rifle is a .303/.25 Australian Wildcat, there is only one.

The information below is from Nick Harvey's Prictical Loading Manual, he uses bullet weights rather than Manufacturer's details so the information is generic.

87 grain
IMR 4064 Start 34 grs/2850 Max 37.5 grs/3000

IMR 4895 Start 33 grs/2820 Max 38 grs/3100

IMR 3031 Start 32 grs/2800 Max 36.5 grs/3100

IMR 4320 Start 32 grs/2600 Max 39 grs/3200

IMR 4350 Start 38 grs/2700 Max 41 grs/3000

WIN 760 Start 38 grs/2750 Max 41.5 grs/3050

IMR 4831 Start 40 grs/2730 Max 42.5 grs/3050


100 grain
IMR 3031 Start 32 grs/2800 Max 34 grs/3000

IMR 4064 Start 33 grs/2800 Max 35.5 grs/3000

IMR 4895 Start 32 grs/2650 Max 37 grs/3000

IMR 4320 Start 33.5 grs/2700 Max 38 grs/3000

WIN 748 Start 33.5 grs/2600 Max 37.5 grs/2900

IMR 4350 Start 36 grs/2600 Max 39 grs/2800

WIN 760 Start 37 grs/2600 Max 41 grs/2900

IMR 4831 Start 37 grs/2600 Max 41 grs/2800

H 380 Start 32.5 grs/2520 Max 39 grs/2850

BL-C2 Start 33.5 grs/2600 Max 36 grs/2800


117 grain
IMR 3031 Start 30 grs/2500 Max 33 grs/2700

IMR 4064 Start 31.5 grs/2500 Max 34.5 grs/2720

IMR 4895 Start 31.5 grs/2530 Max 34.5 grs/2700

IMR 4320 Start 32.5 grs/2430 Max 36 grs/2730

IMR 4350 Start 36.5 grs/2500 Max 39 grs/2650

WIN 760 Start 37 grs/2550 Max 40 grs/2700

IMR 4831 Start 36 grs/2400 Max 39 grs/2600

DO NOT EXCEED STARTING LOADS IN RIFLES BUILT ON SMLE ACTIONS

I hope these help.

I have a .222R (Rimmed) on a Cadet Action; it shoots very well.

John.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I wouldn't be cutting the magazine short, it spoils teh looks of the rifle as far as I'm concerned, unless you change the shape of the trigger guard as well. You have to get rid of the flat front to make it look balanced in my book.

[NoDakJak]

Bigjohn, Many thanks for the loading data. I know that there are at least three variations of the 25-303 floating around in Canada, Australia and the USA. This particular one is a simple neck down of the 303 to 25 with no other case changes.
I like the looks of that Takedown rifle. I think that I will have to find another #4 and build myself one. It will take a while though as I have too many projects going now.
Neil