Downside to seating 45acp longer?

[swmass]

So I have been searching the internet and can not find much on the subject. I shoot a lee 200 grain swc (non TL) through my 1911. If I recall correctly I started seating at 1.124 and was getting hang ups. I have been happily loading and shooting them at 1.126 with about 99% reliability and they shoot as straight as I can shoot them (probably answered my own question) . So, after reading that the loaded round should sit flush with the hood of your barrel and noticing mine sat quite a bit further than that... are there any downsides or problems that could be created in doing such? I believe if I try to seat flush with the hood I will be back around 1.123-1.124 and will have feeding issues. Any thoughts?

[phonejack]

My mistake

[35remington]

If adjustments to OAL produce reliable feeding and shoot well then have at it. No reason not to. I am presuming you are flush with hood and not greatly longer? If so the gun may not go into battery.

If there as a gap between hood and breech when the slide is shut the gun may tolerate somewhat above flush with the hood. If not you are courting problems.

1911's by design tend to feed more reliably with longer OAL's. Short OAL's are less reliable. If it is not clear why I can explain.

Seating longer tends to lower pressure given similar powder charges, not raise it.

[LakeviewBulldog]

I had the same issue with the Lee 452-200-SWC's I went all the way up to 1.130 to get them to cycle reliably in my XDM Compact. From what I read it is being under minimum OAL that can cause dangerous pressures. Being over OAL can impact feeding.

[swmass]

187593 Maybe it is not as bad as I think? Here is a picture for reference.

[Boogieman]

1911's should feed best between 1.240" to 1.260" .Both of my Colts, a 1991A 1001 & a OM. feed 100% at 1.250". That is with the 200gr.swc g lub. groove boolit. If yours won't I would look for other problems. Could be mag., tired recoil spring or miss adjusted extractor.

[huntrick64]

35Remington is spot on. The "plunk" test is fairly foolproof. Your pic shows a little high, but if it goes into battery, have at it. I didn't understand that earlier post about longer AOL raising pressure unless they are referring to jamming the boolit into the rifling. I used to mess around a lot with OAL, then just started using "plunk" and quit messing with it. Works for me. Since the 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, I spend more of my time making sure the case length is the same on all of my brass. You can have the same OAL on all of your rounds, but if your case length varies, then they each will vary when they slam home.

[Good Cheer]

swmass,
My preference (for a given piece) is a round nose that has a front shoulder that happens to align on the rifling.
Past that (for me that is) it's just whatever the piece likes.

[DougGuy]

I don't know where you got your information saying that the 200gr should sit flush with the end of the case but that is wrong. Probably from the same guys that said if it won't plunk, seat deeper until it does plunk. Again, wrong. The PROPER way to address the problem, is to have the barrel throated. *IF* it won't chamber a round, assembled within SAAMI spec, then THERE is the problem, plain and simple. SAAMI drawings of the chamber show freebore between the end of the chamber and the leade in to the rifling. I cannot tell you how many modern manufacturers run the leade in to the rifling, RIGHT TO THE END OF THE CHAMBER. If you have a barrel like this, with too little or zero freebore, it will always present problems.

Seating deeper is a poor workaround to the problem of not enough freebore, if any, or freebore of insufficient diameter. All seating deeper does is induce jams, raise pressures, and make it where you have to compromise and cobble together load data to get it to work. The 1911 feeds really good with a longer COA. Most modern mfgrs want to throat a barrel for only factory ammo, only .451" in diameter, and they only throat it for whatever limited bit of ammo they run through it.

A revolver cylinder or an auto barrel needs to be setup for cast because generally the boolits are larger than factory jacketed ammo, and it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a .452" boollit won't go into a .451" barrel without some force. You will have your best results with a boolit seated out of the case far enough that the shoulder of the boolit is seated in the freebore of the barrel, with some travel before the boolit engages the leade in to the rifling. You don't want the boolit jammed hard into the leade in or jammed hard into what little throat the maker of the gun sent it out of the factory with.

This is common, typical, and pretty near every modern 45 auto made has too small of a throat for shooting cast boolits. If you load ammo to COA listed in published, tested load data, and it don't plunk, have the barrel throated so you can use the load data listed.

For comparisons, the barrel on the left is a factory Springfield barrel, maybe an RO barrel, but you can see how the rifling runs right down to the end of the chamber, with ZERO freebore. How are you supposed to load ammo to specified COA, and expect it to plunk in this barrel? Long and short of it, it won't!

The barrel on the right is the same barrel after throating. This one will feed anything and everything that will cycle through the magazine, and run like a Singer sewing machine. I throat longer than SAAMI specs call for, and the results speak for themselves, the guns shooot lights out. Groups will be much smaller than fired from the barrel on the left, leading does not occur, pressures are reduced, it's just a better approach because it allows the boolit to pull crimp and enter the freebore, and freebore being smaller in diameter than the inside of the fired case, aligns the boolit in the center of the bore, square with the center of the bore, and guides it to the rifling much better than just jumping out of the end of the case and being crammed into the rifling.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg.html)

[gray wolf]

1911's should feed best between 1.240" to 1.260" .Both of my Colts, a 1991A 1001 & a OM. feed 100% at 1.250". That is with the 200gr.swc g lub. groove boolit. If yours won't I would look for other problems. Could be mag., tired recoil spring or miss adjusted extractor.
I agree with the above.
Also I agree the rifling should be softened a tad after the the chamber end.
If I were to set up a 1911 for a #68 type W C bullet I would have the back of the case to be flush with the barrel hood, and the front driving band kissing the start of the rifling.

If I had problems with any build up of crud at the rifling I could shorten the case O A L by a thou or two.
It's an old proven way to set up a 1911 pistol.

Not the only way, but good way.

[swmass]

Thanks for the replies. I have a good bit of 185 grain swc factory ammo with an OAL of 1.160 that feeds fine in my gun, so I think it is the bullet profile which cause hang ups when seated to normal lengths. So, it seems that if my gun chambers my rounds loaded to 1.126 even though they are slightly above the barrel hood, and they feed and eject smoothly with no sticking or problems I will not have any major problems waiting to happen?

Edit: wow, just made up a few dummies and tired to eject them by hand. They get caught up and do not eject. I must have never noticed as I always fire a full magazine and the empty brass ejects fine... hmm.. may be time to give the lyman 452374 a try

[pmer]

I have 2 1911s know and learned I had to seat SWCs a little deeper for the new one. Now the shorter rounds get caught in the older pistol. They seem to catch when they are supposed to slide under the extractor. Seated longer with some more boolit shoulder above the case mouth they fed good.

So I'm going to have Doug throat the barrel of the of the new one and have him do a spare barrel too. Seems easier than fighting with short throats.

I'm not sure why loaded rounds won't eject from swmass's. The nose doesn't clear the barrel or the port?

[swmass]

I
I'm not sure why loaded rounds won't eject from swmass's. The nose doesn't clear the barrel or the port?


That is is exactly what is happening. My gun feeds really short factory swc, so I think my gun just doesn't like this bullet seated deep enough to feed properly.

[Boogieman]

Factory hardball is about 1.260" to 1.265" any thing shorter should clear the extraction port. Try loading a few Dummy rounds at an OAL that will just pass the plunk test. work them through slowly & check to see if the extractor is holding them against the breech until the slide is fully retracted.

[Boogieman]

The H&G #68 style 200gr. SWC was designed to feed in the 1911 .
loaded to the proper OAL it contacts the top of the chamber at the same point as 230gr. ball when feeding this important as this is what helps force the case under the extractor hook. I've tried the Lee TL 200gr SWC & The RCBS 200gr SWC they load at1.190 & 1.215 neither would feed 100%. As these are my SD loads 99.5% just don't get it. I do use the Lyman #452374 ,loaded to 1.260" it feeds 100% also.

[swmass]

I have a few dummies made up at different lengths. They just clear at 1.25. Ball ammo at 1.1265 feeds perfectly. I like the lead savings and accuracy of the 200 swc, but I just don't have it in me to mess around with it right now. I'll start loading round nose and maybe give it a shot again later down the road.

[Love Life]

1.250 is my go to C.O.L. for 200 gr LSWC. You may need your barrel throated.

[Bzcraig]

I'm going to put in a plug for DougGuy. I've had him do two .45acp barrels for me, one 1911 & one Kahr CW45. The difference is night and day! You can mess around buying different molds trying to find the perfect combination of what you want or send your barrel to Doug and for less than the price of a NOE 2 cavity mold you'll have a barrel that will chamber almost anything and shoot wonderfully!