OE 2f in 40-65. Where to go from here?

[SgtDog0311]

Might as well come out of the closet as a Novice with BP. Nothing impressive to report so looking for suggestions. I shot these in two rifles. The first being the Money JIM409400 in a Cody Ballard with a WIN chamber that I believe is much like the Shiloh chamber. I tried comparing two primers from stock-on-hand, CCI200 and Fed210. In the Cody, bullets out to throat/lands, finger seated, with .060 Walter’s Wad. Everything was in Olde Eynsford 2f. Started at zero or near zero compression and worked up by one grain. In the Marlin Pacific pretty much the same but worked up by two grains and had a little more compression (probably a wad’s worth) for starting load at 56gr. I didn’t bell cases any more than the step up on Lyman expander from BACo so did not lay any flair down with a sizing die.

All targets at 100yds. I usually do load development at 50yds due to some degraded vision from advanced Glaucoma. I reckon the outlayers could be attributed to that but hard to say and I've shot better smokeless loads at 100yds.

For the Cody/Money these first two targets with CCI primers were the best by virtue of some core grouping but in each case I had a pair of outliers. Sorry but all the pictures are laying on their side.
187561 187562

With the Fed 210 primers I only had one target with equal results but still nothing impressive.
187563

So, give it some neck tension, change primers, lay what little flair might remain down, change seating depth? Don’t think OE 1.5f is the answer since I shot a couple loads there too and they were even less impressive.

I’ll post the Saeco/Creedmoor in the Marlin Ballard (Pacific) and results in the next post. Pretty much same results/questions. Any recommendations/observations appreciated.

[SgtDog0311]

Marlin Ballard (Pacific) with relined bore and chamber with .110 tapered freebore. Trying out the Saeco and Creedmoor since these seemed to fit the chamber better than the Money bullet. Also, was hoping to test out some velocities for the Saeco that were slower, so deeper seating depth was preferred with this bullet.

The loads with the Saeco with none or light compression did better than the load with the most compression. Again, a core group with two outliers. Second target is there to see as well.
187565 187566

With the Creedmoor I started at 56 and went up by two grains. Found it interesting that I had a horizontal string on the first target, a vertical string on the second and then back to horizontal again. Wind was not a factor. Keep in mind these all are on their left side.
187567 187568 187569

Not sure what I ought to try next... or perhaps I ought to just work on changing location of the barrel rest. Right now I'm just resting across sticks at the null spot. Also, as a side note for the previous post on the Money bullet, the Money is cast from with DanT's antimonial alloy: 97/1.5/1.5. Should be between a 20:1 and 16:1 for slump consideration.

One thing sure - this BP shooting can eat through more powder and lead than I consume finding a load with smokeless. I'm finding it a little more challenging for sure.

Wanted to say thanks to Hiwall55 for sending some Saeco and Creedmoor bullets and to Stevewhr for sending his BACo Money mould to live with me for a little while. I like all three of these bullets.

[Don McDowell]

What are you doing for fouling control?

[SgtDog0311]

BT... three long slow breaths. Temp was about 65 degrees yesterday.

[Hiwall55]

John was your flier at the beginning, middle or end of the group with the creedmoor and Saeco. And also I would try a LDPE wad with a piece of newspaper on it.
Bill

[SgtDog0311]

Bill, sorry to say I can't answer that. I was looking after each shot but had to get moving as the day went since I had to pick my granddaughter up from school and quite checking until that target was done. As luck would have it the Saeco and Creedmoor were the last of my loads. I'll watch it next time. I have never tried LDPE but I'll pick some up. What is an easy method to punch your paper out?

[Gunlaker]

I would also try a 0.060" LDPE wad, although I don't think that will make very much difference.

How far out is the bullet sitting? I assume that the first three bands are outside of the case. If you chamber a round and extract it, are the bands engraved by the rifling? Are they engraved equally all the way around?

When I use that bullet in my Shiloh I wipe between shots. Two damp Arsenal patches in normal weather, and three if it's 90 degrees or so. No dry patches as they will increase your chance of leading. Wiping with a patch on a nylon brush works best for me by far.


Edit: I was writing about the 409400M4. Sorry. Sorry the Saeco bullet I use neck tension and seat them with no grooved exposed, but the top band touches the rifling.
Chris.

[Don McDowell]

BT... three long slow breaths. Temp was about 65 degrees yesterday.

You have a core group of 3 shots very tight. So then you need to look at 2 things, either your fouling control isn't working, or you may be jumping the trigger a bit.
If you're not getting the breath from way down deep in your lungs, leaving water droplets in the tube, then you may want to stay a bit more hydrated, and add another breath. If that doesn't work you may want to look at wiping at least one damp, 2 maybe better between shots.

[country gent]

Don Ive even been known to cheat in hot dry weather and have a bottle of cold water on the line a big sip every 3 shots or so keeps me well hydrated and my breath a lot moister.

[Lead pot]

John.

I see a lot of good in those groups except for target p5 it has more vertical then it should have. I don't think your having a fouling problem with the horizontal you shot. I take it those squares are 1"?? when you have 3 shots close yours are I think it's a good start. Those fliers I think is lack of concentration not focusing on the front sight enough till it's sharp or hurrying the break with not holding a proper weld on the stock. P-5 looks like a little lead build up starting.
A good way to check if your blow tubing is good enough is to push a dry patch through after you take your usual amount of blows. If that dry patch shows any amount of greasy moisture and you don't feel a drag when you get to the end of the barrel your getting enough moisture. You will feel when you hit a dry spot doing this.

Kurt

[Hiwall55]

John, I use a press mounted wad punch, but you should have a hammer punch to try different wads and cut out newspaper

[Stevewhr]

John, those groups with the least vertical look good to me. Real good. I would shoot more of those, and ask yourself about sight picture and gun technique. I think those are better than you think. If you can take Bill and have him shoot as well. Rule out shooter issues, whether it's the eyes or technique. The close vertical are really encouraging to me. Tell me what the environmentals were like. It appears you had some wind? I'd think even 15 mph could be cause for the horizontal group.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks for the input gentlemen. Some answers/comments.

Chris, Bullet issetting out as far as I can seat it without forcing it. None are difficult to chamber though. The Money visibly engraves and has threelube grooves exposed. On both the Saecoand the Creedmoore they are out as far as it takes to see signs of the groovediameter touching the first driving band. The Saeco has scuffs you can see well enough without a magnifier on thebore riding section as well. TheCreedmoor has a little smaller diameter so not equal all the way around as Ithink it scuffs a little as it’s guided in – probably the bottom side but I’ll pay moreattention next time I chamber and extract one.

If I go to wiping I’ll follow the tips offered.

Don, I’ll pay moreattention to “jumping the trigger”. Couldbe a contributor. Usually I’m prettycaution about surprising myself but once I did notice my shoulder bracing whenI didn’t like the moment and held off for another breath.

Wayne, I see moistureflowing in the clear tube. Might oughtto hold off on the Skoal while shooting – not sure a mouthful of spit is ahindrance or helpJ

Kurt, the only ones I posted were those I thought hadsomething to hang a hat on (three shots near enough to be hopeful). And yes, those squares are one inch. I think both you and Don may have somethingthere with concentration and maybe jumping the trigger. The 40-65 with a 10.3lb rifle are a bitdifferent than my 38-50 so could be… Iknow last time I shot my 45-70 with smokeless and a lighter bullet before Ileft and it was like a 38 compared to the 40-65 and BP. I’ll try the patch after blowing next timeand have a feel from that. I had anexcellent lube star on both muzzles when I quit. Did pick up some minor leading when I rantight patches once home. Nothing bad.

Wayne, I’ll pick up a punch at Harbor Freight.

Steve, no wind to speak of - rare for Oklahoma. The ones I think you are looking at with the close vertical made me think of my hold and struggling with the aperture and my eyes. The thing I didn't like was the outliers. The Creedmoor gave me two or those to suspect myself on.


Thanks for the input guys. I’d like to have all three of these moulds but will start with two. I have plenty of Money bullets and enough ofthe Saeco and Creedmoor for another quick trip to the range in the meantime.

On the LDPE wads, do you order them sized them morecarefully to the exact diameter since I assume they have less give than aWalters Wad?

[Stevewhr]

The Cody gun shot well with the 64 grains I believe it was and one flier. My suspicion would be shooter error somewhere somehow. You put 4 shots into well under and inch vertically and then the flier. Maybe try for 10 shots for a group. I'd bet that load is a shooter and as such I'd try that again, and hopefully it'd work for you. As a "quality control" I'd have Bill shoot that load and gun and see what happens. You've mentioned recoil, there's always a chance you have got yourself a flinch. Or, consider giving up on the Cody gun and either send it or drop it off with me. I'll give it a good home. It's just too pretty not to shoot! I'd like to watch you shoot, watch what happens after the shot. You're sitting and on sticks or are you shooting off a bench with these targets?

[Gunlaker]

You've got lots of good advice I think. One more thought, what size front aperture are you using? If the aperture is too tight on the bull it will induce eye fatigue. That aiming black is 6 minutes in size at 100. For reference, I like a 0.100" aperture on that size bull. Any smaller and my shooting suffers.

I only mention it because when I started shooting these rifles I had the front aperture closed up quite tight on the bull, and the rear set quite large. I later read a book by Jim Owens and it set me on a better path, although I don't follow exactly what he says.

Chris.

[Bent Ramrod]

You've gotten lots of good advice here. The only thing I might add is that, if you are indeed a novice at this kind of shooting, you might do better with sandbags or a bench rest for your load testing, unless, of course, you are an AAA shooter or better off cross sticks.

I might be reading too much of myself into your targets, but the nice core groups with the mysterious horizontal lineup and the occasional wide one flang out there are exasperatingly reminiscent of my own BPCR Silhouette scores. :mrgreen:

[jlmurphy]

I couldn't tell from your initial post if you were full length resizing or slip fitting the bullets. I shoot the .40 65 and have found that the inherent taper of the case makes slip fitting the bullets difficult. I recently tested my rifle using slip fit and neck sized cases and confirmed that the neck sized rounds grouped considerably tighter than the slip fit. I performed this experiment in hopes of eliminating vertical stringing that was killing my Silhouette scores, turns out it was my scope, after repair, I shot my first Master score.

[SgtDog0311]

Steve, it was off sticks from my turkey seat – the one they ran over with the 4-wheeler at the Q – the one you repaired with bailing wire:p Been doing everything the way I’d expect to do it in a match. I’m wondering about the null spot I find by tapping the barrel and feeling for the vibration to subside. That’s what I’ve been using vs experimenting with different places. Seemed to work with my other bullets/loads. So, may pay to expend some powder experimenting with different barrel resting locations too. Keep your eyes open for the Cody to arrive. Just dropped it off at the Post Office J

Chris, That aperture issue is a good one to work on I think. I’ve been using the smallest I have up front but I’ll check the size. Both the front and the rear are a question mark for me. My eyes play havoc with the rear and been trying to experiment some making that larger by moving my cheek weld further back vs further forward. I have problems making out a good ring of light outlining the front globe (not the aperture but the globe itself aroundthe aperture), as seen in the back aperture. No target based conclusions yet! My inclination is to keep it tight up front but I’ll experiment per your comments since I’m still undecided. This loss of vision thing is a challenge. Doc says I’m down to 50% vision in my right eye. Still don't think its a factor though... just insofar as trying to decide what kind of light and outline works best.

Brent, this is my first year at BPCR. They started me out in B class and I was shooting in the teens but last 22 match I shot 26. I think based on my last two scores they may classify me higher this year. Might know this Sunday. I think they issue books then. I’ve been shooting sticks for afew years but not in BPCR, just for fun long-range gong events. Steve thought he bested me last time at his place but of course he is wrong;)

Jl, Neck tension was another big question for me. I don’t full length resize but I have Meachum bushings I can alter just the neck tension with. My necks are turned for uniform thickness the full length of the neck. I have a .410 sizer on order with BACo now. For most of these loads just shot I was just stepping up the case mouth with a slightly undersized expander… not a flare, just a step-up with the expander. Most would seat by hand but a few needed the press to help finish the seating. If I used a bushing to snug up the neck, then expanded with the .410, I’d be uniform and ever-so-slightly tighter than this last time around.
I also have a .4075 expander if I wanted to try .0025 necktension. I have enough Money bullets to try that but it was a little much for my liking. Using a .411 expander left the round needing a little more thumb pressure to seat than I wanted.

Be thinking about the changes for next trip and report back. Right now thinking I should select the best target for each of the three bullets and just see if the results repeat themselves after making some aperture changes and checking the fouling per Brent’s recommendation. And I'll go back to the bench. Then try it again withLDPE wads. If John sells those I can ask him the size question when I drop by his house.

[Don McDowell]

On your stool, might want to try something like one of those little step stools that will give you solid seating, if you can't get by sitting on the ground. You want to be sitting in a position so you can rest both elbows on your knee's , and not be tilted to far forward or back.
Your sticks need to be set to a proper height where when you get into the gun the sights are on target without having to slide the butt up or down on your shoulder. It needs to point naturally.
Try resting your barrel either about 4 inches back from the muzzle or directly in front of the forearm.

[SgtDog0311]

Thought I'd update this since I was painfully mining new data (very poor reception here at the cabin on my one and only link to the outside world) on Swiss and this caliber. Five or six days just isn't enough for 'Ol Slowpoke' so back to OE for the Q.

I reckon this six inch plate is my best at 100yds, which establishes I still have work to do on the shooter. Second one is at 150yds so you can still see I have work to do stabilizing my sight picture. Which took me back to Chris' observation about front aperture size and makes me wonder about the rear aperture as well. Chris, if you see this I'd like to know your thoughts there. Need to get a Hadley it would appear as well as try a larger front aperture.

Also curious what you experienced fellas think about the transonic business when doing load development? Appears from this chart that I'd be traversing that barrier between 100yds and 150yds, leading one to think either 100 or 200 would be best.

Any thoughts there?

Thanks, and sorry about the orientation.

[country gent]

I have used one of the bath tub stools for several years, That are pretty solid and are adjustable for height if desired. I think mine was $30.00 at menards. Makes a light weight adjustable seat with a nice sized seating area. The drawback is 4 legs never sit flat and solid like 3 legs will. I made a little shelf for the side of mine even to set ammo blow tubes OBIs and odds and ends on beside me. These stools are fairly inexpensive and can sometimes be found at garage sales also.

[Chill Wills]

Load development.
Try to shoot at the longest distance you will be shooting in a match.
If targets are at 300y to 800y - and you can load test at that distance on somewhat calm times of day; that is your best bet.

Use targets (to the extant you can) that are well defined - round and contrast well with the background. It is amazing how much better a good load will print doing the above. Then you know what you have.

Once you have tested in calm, good conditions, and have a good baseline load, you can test in wind and see how it holds up. Some don't, if they are marginally stable. Think bullet yaw. Look at the holes shot at distance. Or, think (too) heavy/long bullet for the twist. Or, think alloy. Harder is better for the high Bc bullets designs. Even a little slump on that nifty high Bc bullet nose is too much - creating (again) Yaw, out of balance and (now) a very low Bc.

[SgtDog0311]

Wayne, I have a turkey seat that serves me well. Even after the line volunteer ran over it at the Q last year with his four wheeler Steve's tie wire repair has held up for a year now. Even tilted a bit towards the sticks. No shelf though:-).

Michael, thanks. Facilities are always the issue aren't they. Did drive out to the valley to borrow a farmer's field but winds were about 30mph. Got just about everything in target and got to look at holes, at least at 300yds, so that was good. But here in my woods 150yds is my furthest target from the porch. I know you are right. Need to make more friends out in the valley and leave more room for finding better weather day. And make a bigger portable target. Man that land is flat. I fear this year the Q will be my proving ground. At least it's a good bullet for the twist and while not a high BC it has an excellent form factor (400gr BACo Creedmoor in a 16 twist).

[BRUCE MOULDS]

sgtdog,
your enquiring mind is to be commended.
iron sights are a learning curve in themselves.
as a starting point, try making the aiming mark 1/3 the diameter of the foresight ring.
for my eye, this is about a 3mm ring for a 4 moa aiming mark.
the aiming mark looks quite small, but it defies logic how the brain works.
from there you individual eye and brain might guide you.
the foresight is better too big than too small.
the rear aperture is your friend in aiming.
closed down as small as possible, it will increase depth of focus, thus allowing a clearer picture of both the front sight and the target.
however, even then, the eye cannot focus on both. so you need to focus on the front and blur the target a little.
you know when the rear aperture is too small, as it appears to have cobwebs in it and needs opening until they go away.
different lighting will dictate this.
your loads suggest good promise.
these guns have great barrel time compares to modern ones, and rely on absolute consistency of hold.
rolls off the tongue well, but harder to achieve.
a perfect consistent rest is very helpful. (read bench and rear bag as well)
transonic is from mach 1.2 down to mach 0.8. we have to live with it.
being a recipe for anything going wrong that can go wrong, and requiring bullets that are stable in this zone, just means that you have to get everything right. (like bullet alignment etc).
sometimes it pays to get a known good shooter to shoot you rifle and loads. there is no shame in this.
even then, you need to be sure that the results are repeatable for 10 shot groups. then you can say that bad shooting is you.
sometims a load that shoots well at 100 will have vert at longer ranges, often fixed by more powder/compression.
once you nail this, you will get great satisfaction.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Gunlaker]

John, if you find that after shooting 2 or 3 targets that your eye is getting fatigued then probably the front aperture is too small. You'll hsave to experiment, but I'd err on the side of a little too big rather than too small. Most of the time a 0.100" or 0.105" works best for me. I use my number drill set to measure the inside diameter.

When I fist started shooting I didn't think the Hadley was all it was cracked up to be. After a while I saw it's advantages, particularly in bright light. I start off on the smallest hole and increase until the size one click at a time until the image of the target brightens.

One thing I see a lot on the internet is that the eye will automatically center the apertures. This is true to a large extent, but during practice I have very often gone from shooting tens to shooting X's by just taking a second or so extra to ensure that the sights are exactly centered.

Chris.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

john,
chris gives good advice.
he has obviously done a lot of trialling to come to what he suggests.
just converting my metric sizes, reveals that I use bigger rings.
we are both correct, as it is how our eyes see it.
mine are not too good.
my smallest ring is used on 4 moa aiming marks and is 3 mm or 0.12", and biggest is 4.0 approx 0.16". (please check the calculation)
3.6mm or 0.14 seems ok for sil targets.
one thing that helps me to focus on the foresight is to use a relatively thick annulus.
distant thunder can make foresight inserts for many foresights on a custom basis.
what chris says about mentally checking that all circles are concentric can help, particularly the rear sight.
this will do nothing drastic, but will tighten things up somewhat.
one problem I forgot to mention previously is staying on aim too long.
fullbore shooters describe the problem as the image burning into the brain to such an extent that you can wander off true aim without realizing it and then fire the shot.
staying on aim for much more than 5 seconds will potentially cause flyers this way.
if you abort the shot for this reason, it pays to look at something green if available for a short time to relax the eye.
keep safe,
bruce.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

john, just rereading you posts, it looks like you are shooting off cross sticks from a sitting position.
if this is so, you are really making it hard for yourself to get definitive results.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Stevewhr]

Just studied your targets more John. You weren't shooting one target gangster style were you? You know holding the gun sideways. Might be time to relax and go with the best load to your mind. Last we talked you had a 1.6 MOA load. That'll do fine, look for the Holy Grail when you are relaxed and have nothing better to do. Just my .02. Looking forward to seeing you in Montana!

[Boz330]

As an old guy I like BIG apertures on both ends. I find it is easier to center things with lots of daylight around the target. I use the largest front aperture I have and have drilled out my Hadley cups, way oversize. With the smaller apertures in the rear it looks like there are cobwebs in them and some days all of them. I found that I probably wasted my money on the Hadley Cup since I only use the largest anyway no matter the light conditions. One o the joys of getting older. Beats having dirt thrown in your face though.

Bob

[SgtDog0311]

Bob, you got it. It all beats dirt thrown in your face.

Steve, I just snorted. I'll be the guy holding the old Ballard in one hand and the crotch of my baggy jeans in the other to keep them from falling down around my ankles. Had to have Steve Baldwin do the level for 'plumb' special, just for me.

Chris, thanks for weighing in since I called you out by name. And Bruce, thanks for the kind words and explanations. Hopefully my 'commendations' Will come in the form of improved scores.

In all, appreciate the input. Exactly what I was looking for regarding the aperture and inserts. Now I need to get myself some drill bits:-). Seriously, just checked; my Baldwins are marked. Seems I've been using a .090, on the notion corralling it tighter is better.

My rear sight is MVA. No Hadley. Thought I was getting by. Now I wonder. I don't get cobwebs from the rear aperture as is but I find myself climbing up and down the stock with my cheek weld trying for better light.

But the front, I can turn that one into a living breathing moving ameba. Not a good trick. Always thought it a function of my eye issues but from the shared observations sounds like I may be bringing it on myself, I suspect by hugging the target too tight.

Speaking of focus, aside from avoiding my tendency to "image burn", I go back and forth regarding what ought to be the last vector check. My inserts have a horizontal crosshair. No vertical. That centered in the rear Aperture competes for my attention with two other things. Obviously one is for the target to be centered within the front annulus. The other is the reveal of light around the outside of the front globe as seen in the rear aperture. Can't decide if that last one hinders or helps me center the horizontal crosshair in the rear aperture.

I shot three different targets, in turn putting focus on each. Too small a sample to make too much hay from, but one produced the horizontal target the other produced Steve's gangster target, and trying to evenly split focus produced a rounded group - but no tight core, though all three had the same overall group size.

Probably more than you ever want to read here and Steve's right it's time to retire to the loft and stuff cases.

Thanks again gentlemen!
Steve, got a Hadley I can borrow?:-)

[BRUCE MOULDS]

john, several more thoughts.
it can be wise to test the Hadley, as they can change zero slightly as you change hole size.
this is not a problem from string to string, but can be a problem during a string.
shooting yesterday reminded me of greeblies in the eyes,
if one of those floats across centre just as you are about to fire, it pays to abort the shot!
keep safe,
bruce.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks again Bruce. Don't need no greeblies. Doc already pronounce me barely fit to drive. Got diagnosed with advanced glaucoma this summer - only 8% of my right optic nerve is transmitting. Translates to 50% of my peripheral being gone. Left eye is a little better. Fortunately I can still get by but I see lots of things I shouldn't and don't see things I should.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah I definitely wouldn't mess with the Hadley setting once you've started a string.

Chris.

[SgtDog0311]

Just to close the loop on this (even though the topic of load development is always a lively one in my mind) I did find a load in time. It was a light load but worked well. My overall score at the Quigley was not so hot but mostly due to my inexperience in adjusting for wind. In other words I sometimes had excellent groups in the dirt to the off-side of the wind. I think we read the wind well, considering our experience level but me taking that info and putting it to good use was my downfall. I'm always too conservative and getting it right too late in the string for a good score. We had four of the six targets the first day and winds were 25-29 with 40mph gusts. I did get 15 hits out of the second day's 16 attempts and got a Quigley 8-pin which I was proud to get. Also did go with the a larger aperture (thanks Chris). I didn't try the Hadley but would have had I to had one before leaving for the Q. Steve lent me his Hadley but I was satisfied with the larger front aperture by then. I did have a little problem with leading that was easily dealt with in a single day's string of shooting. I'll be working on that this summer. Might try some alloy changes or size from .410 to .409 if I must. Shot the Creedmoor bullet only since I didn't have the Money bullet sorted out in time. But I was pleased to get the BP worked out in time since when I left last year (my first) I was thinking as I pulled out of Forsyth that next year I'm shooting Black! Appreciate all the help fellas!!

[country gent]

A satisfied match is the icing on the cake. Also I have seen so many upset over not placing its brought a new philosophy to me and also many others. Don't compete against the whole group ( watch and see the scores be amazed by the top shooters and do your best). I now compete against my self, as long as this score is better than the last I'm a winner. Takes a lot of pressure and match nerves away and allows me to concentrate more so on areas I need to. Sounds like you did very good. Reading wind is learned having the confidence to make the full correction is experience that comes with time. You have the first down now trust yourself with it.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah, you pretty much have to ignore what others are doing score-wise. Once you get to the match, all you can do is to shoot one shot at a time and try to make each shot break as well as you can, and do what you think best with the wind. Worrying about a previous shot, or thinking about what your total might be before you get there will really mess you up :-).

John it sounds like you are coming along quite quickly.

Chris.

[country gent]

I only worry about the shot in the gun not whats ahead and especially whats already gone. I cant call them back and reshoot them so they are one and gone. If one is bothering me and I have the time I may dry fire 1-3 rounds to get my head back. But those are done and gone. Whats ahead is there waiting but not important as The one in the gun is at the moment. Worrying about whats gone before or coming up does no good other than divide your concentration. Read the wind make the correction alighn the sights and break the best shot you can each time. Several things forgotten are remember to breathe and keep water intake up as these greatly affect vision. In dry heat not only the fouling dries out. On a hot sunny summers day water intake needs to be high to keep eyes and everything working.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks for the kind words fellas. I started late in life but I'm trying hard and enjoying every bit of it. Your "one shot at a time" was starting to come home to me towards the end.

[Stevewhr]

Wish I'd of applied one shot at a time. Got focused on what I needed/wanted to do and forgot to concentrate on each shot. As such, day two was not stellar. Shot with John and he's a good shot. Next year my friend, next year.