HV .303 Brit success.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

I have been trying to develope a 'mil spec' cast load for my No4 MkII to use in service rifle shoots. Velocity and bullet weight need be with +/- 6% of Mk VII ball; 2440fps and 174gr.

Today I shot the rifle with the following load:

CBE 316 175 GC, oven heat treated WW + 2% babbit, BHN 23.
Sizing: .312 on front driving band, rest .314
47gr AR2209 (H4350)
WLR primer in RP cases
OAL 75mm
Velocity 2390fps

This is at 50m only but shows potential and the load is well within spec. Note the shot to the left was operator related. Ahem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/IMG_0094.jpg

[DanM]

I have been using IMR4350:34grs with compressed COW fill with the Lee180 boolits. This loads gives 1996fps with good accuracy in my Faz. I wonder what difference I would find with H4350? The only reason I would change would be to get a powder that meters well enough to eliminate individual weighing from the uniflow. Otherwise the IMR works great.

[felix]

Bigger the granule stick, the less important it is to get exact weight. Your Uniflow is plenty good enough, even when chopping individual granules. Just make the throw as consistent as possible by minor banging the arm when filling and when dumping. The reason is because the powder granules are NOT dense, and therefore do no carry the same amount of energy as a granule of ball powder, or really small stick. Besides, almost all stick powders are single base, making the importance of weighing exactly even less important. In other words, look at powder weighing at the bottom of the accuracy list when using IMR or V-V types. Boolit weighing is at the top of the list, however, because weight is a percentage of how many voids remain. Problem is not how much the boolit weighs, but where the air holes are, so hopefully we are measuring where the holes are by using the probability that the holes are at the circumference of the boolit. ... felix

[longbow]

Nice shooting!

I have been looking for an upper end load using 200+ gr. cast boolits but am still searching. Unfortunately I haven't had much time to cast or shoot for quite a while so progress is slow.

So far the best I have done is with a load of IMR 4198 and a lapped and Beagled 314299 giving about 1 1/2" at 50 yards with issue sights. But I wanted something that would give 1800 to 2000 FPS FPS. I haven't chrono'd these but am pretty sure they aren't 1800 FPS.

I have tried IMR 4320 and IMR 4064 with and without COW filler. The loads with filler didn't do too bad but certainly not as good as yours. Maybe I should pick me up some H4350.

Those CBE moulds are sure nice so maybe I should try one of those too. You seem to get very good results with the CBE moulds.

Longbow

[JeffinNZ]

I think in the very near future you guys will find that IMR stick powders will be replaced by Hodgdon stick powder ex ADI so either way you will be changing. IMR4227 is already gone are on the way.

Yes, I get great results from the CBE .303 moulds. I think it is primarily because Jim has really done his homework on what the LE rifles like. Much in the same way that US craftsman know how to work a 1911 Colt or a Garand. LE's are very common down here so that's what we focus on. Likewise he offers something like 6 bullet designs for the .310 Cadet cartridge. This is unheard of for such an obscure round but there are lots of those rifles in AU so he has a demand.

[Bigjohn]

I think in the very near future you guys will find that IMR stick powders will be replaced by Hodgdon stick powder ex ADI so either way you will be changing. IMR4227 is already gone are on the way.

Yes, I get great results from the CBE .303 moulds. I think it is primarily because Jim has really done his homework on what the LE rifles like. Much in the same way that US craftsman know how to work a 1911 Colt or a Garand. LE's are very common down here so that's what we focus on. Likewise he offers something like 6 bullet designs for the .310 Cadet cartridge. This is unheard of for such an obscure round but there are lots of those rifles in AU so he has a demand.

I tend to agree with Jeff on CBE molds. I have an expanding collection of them for various calibres. For the SMLE's, I would only buy Jim's molds depending on the weight and diameter required for one of my rifles.

Same applies for my M/H Cadet rifles. Jim also offers a .380" diam mold suitable for the 38/55. I slugged the bore on my Pedersoli at .379" and the .380" is working quite well in it.

John.

[KCSO]

My hunting load for the 303 is a Mountan Moulds 220 grain rnfp bullet and I am using IMR 4895 and pushig it to 2000+ fps. Groups with iron sights are 3 1/2" ay 100 yards and that is good enough for the girls I go with. I have never tried to get more velocity but you have me going, I may have to see if I can hit 2400 with good accuracy.

[Buckshot]

.................Great shooting Jeff! Those leakers are what God thows in every now and then to keep us humble :-)

...............Buckshot

[KCSO]

I NEED another 303 mould and I like the looks of that CBE does he have a web site and can/would he ship to the usa?

[Boz330]

I NEED another 303 mould and I like the looks of that CBE does he have a web site and can/would he ship to the usa?

YES & YES http://www.castbulletengineering.bigpondhosting.com/default.htm

Bob

[JeffinNZ]

I NEED another 303 mould and I like the looks of that CBE does he have a web site and can/would he ship to the usa?

Be sure to ask Jim about the new designs he is working on.

[Thumbcocker]

For an easy way to reach 2000+ fps check out AA 8700. Cheap, low pressure, and consistent accuracy. It does leave a little unburned in the bore but it meters very well and won't strain the gun.

[knappy]

I think in the very near future you guys will find that IMR stick powders will be replaced by Hodgdon stick powder ex ADI so either way you will be changing. IMR4227 is already gone are on the way.

Yes, I get great results from the CBE .303 moulds. I think it is primarily because Jim has really done his homework on what the LE rifles like. Much in the same way that US craftsman know how to work a 1911 Colt or a Garand. LE's are very common down here so that's what we focus on. Likewise he offers something like 6 bullet designs for the .310 Cadet cartridge. This is unheard of for such an obscure round but there are lots of those rifles in AU so he has a demand.

Jeff in N.Z,
Sorry to cut in on you. But I need a lot of help in Aust, can you give me some loads for 303 with ar2208 orAR 2209 for militry shooting with G.C. leadloads.
thanking you

[JeffinNZ]

Knappy: I only use AR2209 for my cast HV loads. 41gr under a 220gr bullet bullet for a Mk VI duplicate 2000fps load. 47gr under a 177gr for Mk VII duplicate 2400fps. Both bullets are wheel weight oven heat treated. I am generally shooting .316 bullets these days.

[rhbrink]

Very good shooting Jeff, always interested in high velocity cast boolit shooting. I noticed that you didn't mention lube would you care to tell us which lube you are using?

[JeffinNZ]

For our US cousins:

AR2208 = Varget.
AR2209 = H4350.

I use my own lube. Too much emphasis is put on lube in my opinion. Good bullet fit and correct powder is as important.

[218bee]

Jeff, you mention .312 on front band and .314 thr rest of boolit....
Is that how they drop from mold or do you size them that way? how?
I suppose Jim can make a similar mold in about .316 for my oversize 2 groove Savage?
Nice shootin and I agree with Buckshot....besides if ya shot a purrfect group you might as well quit cuz ya couldnt do any better. Guys told me I should quit shootin Trap after my first 25...probably should have listened...lots of lead downrange since

[mrwhite]

Very interesting thread.
Need something to feed my Westley Richards

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff, you mention .312 on front band and .314 thr rest of boolit....
Is that how they drop from mold or do you size them that way? how?
I suppose Jim can make a similar mold in about .316 for my oversize 2 groove Savage?
Nice shootin and I agree with Buckshot....besides if ya shot a purrfect group you might as well quit cuz ya couldnt do any better. Guys told me I should quit shootin Trap after my first 25...probably should have listened...lots of lead downrange since

The mould drops at .316-.3165 in WW. To seat to a minimum OAL for service rifle I have to size the front band to .312 to fit the leade. Nose first sizing works. Long winded but seems to work.

If you want a crash hot fat 2 groove barrel bullet I recommend his 316 240. This is 3 shots from a 2 groover at 50m.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/pygmy24gr74850m.jpg

[218bee]

Thanks Jeff that boolit looks as if its worth a try....don't know if I can match that group though.
Do ya size that one or shootem as theyre dropped?
Thanks for the info...been wanting to try a CBE mold

[dromia]

Interesting, my HV .303" load uses AA 4350 under a LBT 198 Gn custom bullet with a Linotype range scrap allof giving BHN of 22. MV in the 2200 fps range. Currently shooting consistent 3" in my No 4T.

[PAT303]

Well,even though I've got allot on my plate ATM looks like I'll have to do some HV loads,Ihave some well seasoned CBE bore riders on the shelf.My 8mm may as well join in too. Pat

[JeffinNZ]

What I found to be critical was to have the front driving band butting into the leade. This produced the above accuracy. I have been forced to back off a few thou so as to be able to unload a complete round and not leave a projectile in the bore and the accuracy is not quite as good.

[dualsport]

Anyone using a Loverin type in their .303? I have the Saeco 315 and a bunch of Fat 30s or maybe they're the Super Fat 30 from a group buy mold, 8 or 9 lube grooves and around .315-.316. Were these intended for tumble lubing?

[PAT303]

What I found to be critical was to have the front driving band butting into the leade. This produced the above accuracy. I have been forced to back off a few thou so as to be able to unload a complete round and not leave a projectile in the bore and the accuracy is not quite as good.

I found the same thing with my 8x57,any amount of jump and accuracy suffers. Pat

[PAT303]

Anyone using a Loverin type in their .303? I have the Saeco 315 and a bunch of Fat 30s or maybe they're the Super Fat 30 from a group buy mold, 8 or 9 lube grooves and around .315-.316. Were these intended for tumble lubing?

I have a feeling that the Loverin style boolit would be the best,I wouldn't use tumble lube and your molds aren't designed for it.How many fat 30 molds do you have? Pat

[dromia]

All my .303"s like the GB fat Loverins sized .315" - .316" the stepped driving bands really help fill the throat and lead.

I always go to a Loverin if I'm looking for quick results from a rifle, never had too much success at driving them much over 1800 fps but then again I've never put much effort into trying to get them to shoot faster, yet.

[dualsport]

I don't have any GB Fat 30 molds. A friend loaned me his and I made us both a good stash. They're .305x.315, flat nose, 175 gr. as cast. These tapered types have worked well for me in the form of the Saeco 315 in standard .30 cal. barrels. The Saeco is skinnier. Lubing them in a Lyman die is interesting. Mostly I've either handlubed or tumble lubed them as cast.

[herbert buckland]

would LLA stand up to these volicitys with hardened boollits & GCs

[dromia]

In my experience no, I don't think about using Xlox over 1200fps and most of my applications for Xlox are at velocities below that. That is in rifles BTW.

[dualsport]

High velocities are possible with LLA. Depends on how high and a few other factors. Many veteran casters have experimented with no lube at all and had success. Just have to get all your ducks lined up right. Right boolit that fits the throat well is the number one secret to any accurate load. One school of thought believes the lube doesn't act as a lube at all. You could spend days just reading all there is to be found on lubes and what they do or don't do. A boolit that is a good fit and right alloy/hardness can shoot well at over 2,000 fps with two coats of LLA, in my experience. Whether or not traditional lube would work better in that same scenario would just have to be tried. There's even the method of using both traditional lube and LLA together.