I have a sickness: New CCW pistol ordered...

[Idaho45guy]

I was completely fine with my CCW choice; a S&W M&P40 Compact. It is incredibly accurate, reliable, handles well, and relatively OK to conceal. I just hardly ever carried it. Sure, it was always in the center console of my pickup in a beautiful Don Hume leather IWB holster loaded with Federal Hi-Shoks.

I just hated the feeling of tucking it in my waist band and the immediate discomfort of the added bulk of the pistol and holster.

Then last Fall, around a campfire and over scotch and cigars during a moose hunt in Idaho, my dad and brother and I got into a discussion about self-defense pistols and ammunition.

You see, dad is a retired Chief of Police, FBI Academy graduate, and PhD. Brother is a current police Detective and SWAT team member, and I am former federal Park Ranger, military member, and gun enthusiast.

Dad and brother are SigSauer fans. Brother carries a P239 in .357 Sig, dad carries the P239 in 9mm. I am the black sheep with my cheap S&W in .40 S&W. I like the increased power and diameter with little sacrifice in capacity that the .40 was famous for when introduced in the 90's.

Our discussion was centered around how bullet technology and powder efficiency has resulted in 9mm loads that are extremely capable of adequate self-defense.

We discussed and debated tirelessly and I finally agreed that I would buy a 9mm. I hadn't owned one since the 80's.

I did my research and decided that I would buy a single-stack 9mm.

I tried to take my Great Dane/Lab mix for daily walks and often would not take my M&P40 simply because it was too bulky. One day, I encountered a loose pit bull with nothing but a Benchmade folder and common sense. Although I was able to extricate myself and my dog from the situation without violence, I did not like the feeling of knowing I was unarmed when I bloody well should be, given my CCW permit and large assortment of firearms not 500yds from where the incident took place.

So, I bought a S&W Shield in 9mm. And not just the normal $350 Shield. I bought the fancy ported Performance Center branded Shield for $460.

It arrived and I immediately purchased a couple of different deep carry "holsters" for it. Bought a couple of hundred rounds of cheap FMJ ammo and a couple of boxes of high dollar Hornady and Sig Sauer self-defense ammo as well. My Visa card wept...

I took it to the range and fell in love with the size, trigger, and recoil. This was a little pistol that fit in the front pocket of my tactical pants, yet was a pleasure to shoot and held 8-rounds of a potent little round (if my dad and brother were to be believed).

But all was not sunshine and roses with my new Shield. Upon racking the slide with some difficulty, it didn't feel right. Shooting at 7-yards, it grouped well enough. But backing up to 10 and 25 yards revealed a problem. The groups opened up exponentially. At 25yds, I could barely get 8" groups.

I inspected the pistol and discovered that the barrel was improperly machined. In an earlier thread here, I went into great detail and provided photos of the monstrosity that S&W sold to me. I have since sent the pistol back and it was returned with another defective barrel, albeit not nearly as bad but still not providing the accuracy and perfection that I have come to expect from my S&W pistols.

So I developed a love/hate relationship with my Shield. I loved the size and hated the fact that S&W sold me a lemon. Then they sent me another lemon when I dared to complain.

But I loved the size and convenience of the Shield! I carried it everywhere! It fit neatly into an interior pocket of my leather weekend jacket, and in my winter expedition jacket, or into my dog-walking pants...

But, my honor was insulted by S&W. I sent them an email to let them know that the replacement barrel also contained a machining flaw, was still inaccurate, and the two month response time was not acceptable. They sent me a cold and canned response which insulted me further.

So, I began researching other sub-compact single-stack pistols. But now I wanted one in .40 S&W. I had ordered all of the components to begin reloading for the .40 S&W. I began casting 175gr SWC hard cast boolits. I realized that I could reload my own hard-hitting .40 S&W rounds for less than buying new 9mm FMJ plinking rounds.

My dad and brother's arguments for the 9mm centered around the low cost and increased round count. With the single-stack sub-compacts, I lost one round and could produce my own hard-hitting rounds for less money.

So, I perused the internet for months. I compared and contrasted the different pistols and narrowed it down to three; the S&W Shield 40, the Walther PPS M2, and the Springfield Armory XDS.

I chose the Walther PPS M2.

Then I found out that it was actually not available in .40 S&W...

So I ordered a SA XDS .40 S&W in FDE for $422 from Bud's Gun Shop...

187022

I have previously owned a couple of the SA XD pistols in .45 and found them very delightful to shoot and very accurate. I owned them when the S&W M&P series came out. I bought the S&W M&P40 and shot it alongside the XD. I wanted to consolidate my pistols to one design and one caliber at the time when my now ex-wife was questioning my array of pistols with the same apparent mission statement. I agonized over the decision and decided to simply choose whichever weapons system gave me the tightest groups.

The M&P won so I sold off the XD and bought the M&P40 compact. That was ten years ago and I have been delighted ever since. Until I tried the Shield and that whole debacle in which S&W customer service has turned me against the company.

I will review and post the results of the new XDs when it arrives...

[6bg6ga]

I hope you like it.

[osteodoc08]

I love my XDS in 45. So much so, I'm going to look at a XDS 9 and XDM compact 3.8 in 9 as well.

[54bore]

I had a shield in .40 Cal, bought it brand new with the thought of CC, after shooting it i absolutely HATED it!! I couldn't hit a bull in the @ss with it, someone else owns it now! Back to my GP-100 6" she dont conceal very well, but im DEADLY with it all the way out to 100 yards. Me and slide pistols in general dont see eye to eye, ive been a Revolver guy all my life.

[FergusonTO35]

Those XDS are some sweet pistols for sure. If you ever decide to give the 9 another try I heartily recommend the Glock 43.

[w5pv]

Chootem with a 45 cal they don't kick as much

[Idaho45guy]

This is the best group I could get from my 9mm Shield using a rest at 25 yds...

187118

[Plate plinker]

hmmm :| well have somebody else try this. Maybe you just struggle with the small guns? Keep trying.

[Idaho45guy]

hmmm :| well have somebody else try this. Maybe you just struggle with the small guns? Keep trying.

This was my M&P40 Compact at 40yds...

187119

It's not me...

[dragon813gt]

The original PPS is available in 40 S&W. I know it's to late now but they can be found easily. I prefer the paddle mag release. But I'm biased. I bought a PPS in 9mm when they first came out and have been carrying it since. But a little voice in my head keeps telling me to buy a CZ 2075 RAMI.

[Idaho45guy]

The original PPS is available in 40 S&W. I know it's to late now but they can be found easily. I prefer the paddle mag release. But I'm biased. I bought a PPS in 9mm when they first came out and have been carrying it since. But a little voice in my head keeps telling me to buy a CZ 2075 RAMI.

I really wanted the M2 in .40, which is in development. But after handling the XDS at my LGS, I really liked it.

[DougGuy]

Check out a Kahr CW45 for edc. I have one and love it. They are VERY accurate for being a 3 5/8" barrel, the trigger pull is buttery smooth DAO, no external safeties since it is striker fired and the striker doesn't have pre-load on it like a Glock. I was able to get a Mag Pack 7rd officer's mag to fit flush and it is 7+1 carry, same as a full size 1911A1. Weight is only 26oz. fully loaded!

This 230gr Speer Gold Dot JHP was pulled from a depth of 9" in our North Carolina red clay:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Kahr%20CW45/SpeerGoldDotSoilTest7-4-2015_zpsyf4bj0w4.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Kahr%20CW45/SpeerGoldDotSoilTest7-4-2015_zpsyf4bj0w4.jpg.html)

[Idaho45guy]

A 1911 is on my bucket list of firearms. Carried one in the Navy and really liked it. My first carry pistol was a Ruger D90. Huge chunk of steel. Then I went to .40 and then flirted with XDs in .45 but eventually settled on the M&P series in .40.

I still have a few hundred rounds of .45 acp including a box of the infamous Black Talon rounds that were discontinued in the 90's.

[dverna]

I have Kahr's in 9mm and .40. Agree with DougGuy...they are a nice gun. Kahr's are what I carried when I was working but now that I am retired I sometimes carry a Glock as I can dress differently and I like the added capacity.

Don Verna

[Lagamor]

Good friend of mine has a Rami, and I love that thing. Planning on getting one myself, but I'm hearing so much good stuff about Khars that I'm going to look into them.

[elmacgyver0]

I like'em all, what can I say.

[Triggernosis]

While I'm a fan of the CZ-75 platform, that Rami is one chunky feeling pistol.

[Triggernosis]

Oops. Double post.

[dragon813gt]

While I'm a fan of the CZ-75 platform, that Rami is one chunky feeling pistol.

You'd hate the one I have then ;)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/F6EB5B84-72C7-495C-B4CE-87820A717EA6.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/dragon813gt/media/Firearms/F6EB5B84-72C7-495C-B4CE-87820A717EA6.jpg.html)

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, that's the autoloader equivalent of a 2" S&W 65 with coke bottle grips!

[Lefty Red]

I loved the way my PC Shield felt, but like you just couldn't hit anything with it pass 5 yards!

My XDS 40SW should be here early next week. I was hesitant due to it a lot of feedback of the XDS in 40. I liked mine in 45, and thought it too heavy for a 9mm. Don't like the prices of the mags, but still cheaper than Sig's mags! :)

Lefty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Idaho45guy]

I sold my Shield today to an extended family member today for $425. Told him it grouped around 8" at 25yds and he was totally fine with that. Said he couldn't shoot past 10yds anyways with his old eyes... Just wanted a little 9mm for walking the dog.

Unfortunately, Buds has taken their sweet time in getting the XDS shipped. Ordered last Friday on the 3rd and it still hasn't shipped. I've had mixed results with them. First gun I ever ordered from them was my Ruger BH Bisley last Summer and it took them nearly two weeks to ship it due to me paying with electronic check for the cash discount. Took another week for it to get here.

Then in December I ordered an Uberti Silver Boy rifle from them with a visa and it shipped within two days and got here in less than a week.

Bought the XDS using a visa to speed things up and still hasn't even shipped...

[FergusonTO35]

Buds is probably selling it on behalf of a distributor which can be located anywhere. Buds just handles the sale and payment and tells them where to ship it. They are located the next county over from me so I hear a lot about them, good and bad.

[Moonie]

I've got an XD Subcompact mod2 in 40 caliber with an aftermarket 9mm ported barrel for it. Love the size, holds 9 40's with the small mag and 13 with the full size. 16 with the full size 9mm magazine. It is very accurate and easy to shoot.

[54bore]

I really wanted the M2 in .40, which is in development.

It would be .40 or nothing for me. I have handloaded for nearly 30 years, the .40 is ballistically superior to the 9 and 45, the .40 only second to the 10MM which is the .40s Parent case. The .40 Cal is a BAD dude!

[shoot-n-lead]

I like the M&P...but you couldn't give me a .40.

[54bore]

I like the M&P...but you couldn't give me a .40.

Sorta like me with a 9MM, in my opinion a 9MM is a teeny tiny step above worthless (coming from personal hands on experience) A .380 in my opinion is worthless.
But Let's not trash Idaho45guy's thread with Caliber discussion.

[Idaho45guy]

Sorta like me with a 9MM, in my opinion a 9MM is a teeny tiny step above worthless (coming from personal hands on experience) A .380 in my opinion is worthless.
But Let's not trash Idaho45guy's thread with Caliber discussion.

Meh... It was boring anyway... :-)

Hopefully picking up the pistol Thursday and taking it to the range for some evaluation...

[54bore]

Meh... It was boring anyway... :-)

Hopefully picking up the pistol Thursday and taking it to the range for some evaluation...

Good deal! Look forward to your review on it!

[Electric88]

Man, I'm kind of bummed that you had those problems with the PC Shield. I just placed a used one on layaway at my LGS. I guess when I get it I'll see how it shoots and go from there. I've shot my buddy's Shield before and liked it, so we shall see.

Congrats on the new carry gun though!

[Powder Burn]

Comes down to personal preference. My sons .40 Shield was a tad snappy for me so I went for the PPS in 9MM. Love those Walthers. 188047

[DougGuy]

Meh... It was boring anyway... :-)

Hopefully picking up the pistol Thursday and taking it to the range for some evaluation...

Might want to take plenty of factory j-words and maybe take the barrel out and see what plunks if you take cast boolits with you. If that one is like others I have had here, the barrel has rifling run right down to the end of the chamber, no freebore to speak of. Just a heads up..

May I recommend Speer Gold Dot for edc? The Kahr CW45 is a VERY picky little thing and mine runs better on Gold Dot than anything else. I get 9" penetration and fully opened petals in our North Carolina red clay from the short barrel. I expect the XDS would run good with it.

Eventually I did throat the Kahr so I could use .452" handloads and it runs good now with those.

[54bore]

I was probably being to harsh on the 9MM in my statement above, but i did have a really bad experience with one and it has stuck with me. To make a LOOONG story kinda short i went in on a wounded black bear for 2 acquaintances, i did not know the bear was wounded or i would have taken my own Revolver! My understanding was the bear was dead and they needed help dragging it out, to my surprise when we arrived they showed me where it was standing when the one shot it, i could find blood and the rd was all scuffed up where it had tore it up leaving, there was 2 weapons available, a 9MM and a .38 spcl, i did not know about the .38spcl til later, this area was brushier than a rabbit cared to crawl, and thats no joke! Dense Blackberry briers and just plain brush. I went in with the 9MM (again i didnt know the one guy had a .38spcl in his pack) they had shot it with a 30-06 and made a horrible gutshot, they did not have the 06 with them. i found the bear about 30-40 yards into the thicket, there was a little opening and it was sitting in it, right away i seen it was a little bear (100-125 pounds Max) i took aim between his eyes and shot, he fell but tried to get back up, i walked up almost point blank and hit him in head again, I could NOT kill this little bear with that 9MM! Then the one guy says 'Hey i have a .38 Spcl if thats any better?' I immediately swapped to the .38, one shot and the bear was stone cold dead!
I have no idea what the ammo was in the 9MM? Nor the 38Spcl? All i can say is the facts mentioned above, the 9MM would not penetrate the skull, the 38 Spcl did it with ease. I am a Revolver guy, particularly the .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum, i have never cared for a .38Spcl but that particular day and situation it worked like a charm, and the 9MM was a DUD!
There were plenty of bad decisions made this day, i walked into an unknown situation to help a couple of idiots out and it turned out to be a nightmare, i have hunted big game all of my life so i was comfortable going in after the bear. I wouldn't be so harsh on the 9MM if it had been a big 250 plus bear, but this was little 100 pounder. I have shot many .40s over the years and am confident a .40 would have done the job here.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm not the greatest hunter by a long shot but those guys have no business playing Duck Hunt on Nintendo much less going after any real critters. I feel really sorry for that bear.

[54bore]

I'm not the greatest hunter by a long shot but those guys have no business playing Duck Hunt on Nintendo much less going after any real critters. I feel really sorry for that bear.

I am an AVID hunter and i couldn't agree more!! Couple of idiots for sure! This was several years ago when i lived in Western Wa, I had only been around the 1 guy a couple times, and it was brief. I happen to live within a couple miles of where they were hunting that day, that's the reason they came and got me. Not knowing them any better than i did I should have taken my own Sidearm! Its characters like these that give good ethical hunters a BAD name!

[Idaho45guy]

Might want to take plenty of factory j-words and maybe take the barrel out and see what plunks if you take cast boolits with you. If that one is like others I have had here, the barrel has rifling run right down to the end of the chamber, no freebore to speak of. Just a heads up..

May I recommend Speer Gold Dot for edc? The Kahr CW45 is a VERY picky little thing and mine runs better on Gold Dot than anything else. I get 9" penetration and fully opened petals in our North Carolina red clay from the short barrel. I expect the XDS would run good with it.

Eventually I did throat the Kahr so I could use .452" handloads and it runs good now with those.

I switched from 9mm to .40 S&W for my EDC specifically so I could cast and reload for it... I assume any issues I have I can send it in and you can fix? I'm not very up to speed on the theories involved in freebore and cast boolits and all that...

[NavyVet1959]

I switched from 9mm to .40 S&W for my EDC specifically so I could cast and reload for it... I assume any issues I have I can send it in and you can fix? I'm not very up to speed on the theories involved in freebore and cast boolits and all that...

Well, it *is* also possible to cast and reload for 9mm... :)

If you gotta carry a 9mm, then you should do it right and carry a 9x23.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9723mm_Winchester

Or 9mm Super Cooper...
9mm Super Cooper Article -- Page 1 / 4 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-1.jpg)
9mm Super Cooper Article -- Page 2 / 4 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-2.jpg)
9mm Super Cooper Article -- Page 3 / 4 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-3.jpg)
9mm Super Cooper Article -- Page 4 / 4 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-4.jpg)

My daily carry varies... Just kind of depends upon what I'm wearing that day or my personal preference for that day...

Today, it was a single stack RIA M1911 in 10mm using these loads:
http://www.images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-210-swc-resized-10mm-loaded-320w.jpg

[NavyVet1959]

I sold my Shield today to an extended family member today for $425. Told him it grouped around 8" at 25yds and he was totally fine with that. Said he couldn't shoot past 10yds anyways with his old eyes... Just wanted a little 9mm for walking the dog.

From a self-defense standpoint, in most cases, it's going to be difficult to legally justify that you felt your life in danger if the person that you are shooting is 25 yards away from you. Robberies and attacks happen from up close.

[NavyVet1959]

I tried to take my Great Dane/Lab mix for daily walks and often would not take my M&P40 simply because it was too bulky. One day, I encountered a loose pit bull with nothing but a Benchmade folder and common sense. Although I was able to extricate myself and my dog from the situation without violence, I did not like the feeling of knowing I was unarmed when I bloody well should be, given my CCW permit and large assortment of firearms not 500yds from where the incident took place.

Dogs have very sensitive hearing and for many of them, unless they have been trained to be accustomed to the sound of gunfire, they will feel pain from just the sound and go away. I have two pit bulls (one was abandoned on a highway by someone that wanted the dog hit by a car, but my daughter rescued it). Both are females and the new one and old one had dominance issues and would sometimes start fighting because they were competing for attention when we came home. Well, one evening I came home and they started again. I didn't have anyone else to help me pull them apart and I was tired of having to sew the older one up (she would get her hide ripped down to the meat, but would not give up to the newbie), so I pulled out the gun I was carrying and fired a round into the ground. Very loud noise and they quit and ran away. Hell, all I have to do now is cock the hammer on a gun and they will run away. They really hate that noise.

If I was hiking and for some reason was worried about stray dogs, I would be more inclined to use a walking stick than a firearm. Hell, I've used something not much more than that to remove a gator out of my BIL's backyard once and the cop he had also called was just going to shoot it.

[Idaho45guy]

If I was hiking and for some reason was worried about stray dogs, I would be more inclined to use a walking stick than a firearm. Hell, I've used something not much more than that to remove a gator out of my BIL's backyard once and the cop he had also called was just going to shoot it.

Hiking in Idaho is a bit more dangerous than hiking in Texas... When I hike, I have either my M&P40 compact or my Ruger BH Bisley in .45 Colt. For walking the dog around my little town, I shouldn't need to worry about wolves or Grizzly bears or angry moose... Hence the little XDS.


Did not anticipate having to defend my choice to carry a pistol for protection on this forum...

[NavyVet1959]

Hiking in Idaho is a bit more dangerous than hiking in Texas... When I hike, I have either my M&P40 compact or my Ruger BH Bisley in .45 Colt. For walking the dog around my little town, I shouldn't need to worry about wolves or Grizzly bears or angry moose... Hence the little XDS.


Did not anticipate having to defend my choice to carry a pistol for protection on this forum...

The post just came across as from another of those pit bull haters -- one that would consider shooting a dog at 25 yards because he *thought* the dog might be aggressive.

[Idaho45guy]

The post just came across as from another of those pit bull haters -- one that would consider shooting a dog at 25 yards because he *thought* the dog might be aggressive.

I'm not a "pit bull hater". I'm a reasonable and intelligent adult that recognizes the inherent instability and tendency of the breed. My last dog before my current dog was a pit/lab mix. Great dog. The dog I referenced in the original post was a very dangerous and unstable dog. It is owned by a white trash individual who breeds pit bulls to be very muscular and aggressive. He has had two of his prior dogs attack and kill other neighborhood dogs. He had to shoot both of those dogs in public when he was unable to control them while they were killing other dogs that were on leash with their owner on a public sidewalk near his house.

He has been cited by the local police for those prior incidents and was sued in civil court. He is definitely idiotic white trash.

I know not all pit bull owners are idiot white trash scum. But plenty are, and reasonable and intelligent people are aware of the dangers of pit bulls.

[NavyVet1959]

I'm not a "pit bull hater". I'm a reasonable and intelligent adult that recognizes the inherent instability and tendency of the breed. My last dog before my current dog was a pit/lab mix. Great dog. The dog I referenced in the original post was a very dangerous and unstable dog. It is owned by a white trash individual who breeds pit bulls to be very muscular and aggressive. He has had two of his prior dogs attack and kill other neighborhood dogs. He had to shoot both of those dogs in public when he was unable to control them while they were killing other dogs that were on leash with their owner on a public sidewalk near his house.

He has been cited by the local police for those prior incidents and was sued in civil court. He is definitely idiotic white trash.

I know not all pit bull owners are idiot white trash scum. But plenty are, and reasonable and intelligent people are aware of the dangers of pit bulls.

Even back when pits were being bred for fighting, if a dog attacked a person, the bloodline was not allowed to continue. They needed to be able to be handled in the pit by humans, so any dog that would attack a human was not desired. My experience with pits has been that they are very friendly and the only time they seem aggressive is if some idiot owner ties them up on a short leash for their entire life next to their dog house. Back when I was younger and more into cycling, I had quite a few dogs chase me over the years, but none were ever pits. I never considered the chases a threat though. In fact, I would purposely slow down enough so that the dog could *think* he was catching up to me so that I could lure him further away from the house so that he had even further to walk back home after he eventually was completely exhausted in the chase. People should keep their dogs in their own backyards. My pits might bark a couple of times to let me know that the lawn service has arrived, but they get along with them with no problems. I would have no concern about either of them actually hurting a human.