Cleaning up 310 tool and dies

[DonMountain]

As a collector of old reloading tools, I purchased my first Ideal #310 reloading tool and dies as a set from our favorite auction site to reload 30-06 cartridges. The tool apparently hasn't been used in a long time, and suffers from some rust spots and slightly damaged threaded pieces. How should I go about cleaning this tool and dies? Are the threads common so that I can use a thread file to straighten them? Should I use a brass wire brush or is a steel one ok? How about chemicals and/or lubricants to protect the cleaned tools?

[Eddie Southgate]

For the rust you can buy a liquid rust remover at Tractor Supply in a gallon can that breaks down the rust so that you can rub it off with a rough cloth . I take all non carbide dies apart every so often and clean them inside with acetone and Q-tips to remove the lube and grit that builds up over time . Keeps you from ending up with scratches on your brass . As far as the threads , they are American threads so you could use a thread file but I would take them to a machinist and have him run a die over the male threads and chase the females with the appropriate tap . If you have a tap and die set you can do it yourself . I don't put anything on mine to protect them but if I did it would probably be Kroil . What threads are damaged ?

Eddie

[DonMountain]

For the rust you can buy a liquid rust remover at Tractor Supply in a gallon can that breaks down the rust so that you can rub it off with a rough cloth . I take all non carbide dies apart every so often and clean them inside with acetone and Q-tips to remove the lube and grit that builds up over time . Keeps you from ending up with scratches on your brass . As far as the threads , they are American threads so you could use a thread file but I would take them to a machinist and have him run a die over the male threads and chase the females with the appropriate tap . If you have a tap and die set you can do it yourself . I don't put anything on mine to protect them but if I did it would probably be Kroil . What threads are damaged ?

Eddie

There are just some small spots on some of the die external threads that looked like they were dropped or banged against something steel. The entire unit, handles and dies are all steel with small rusting on all of it. And very dirty inside the individual dies. Especially the bullet seating die. I have not been able to remove all of the lock rings by hand either. Is there something I can soak them in to loosen them up so I can remove them? Apparently the bullet seating stem and the neck sizer is for jacketed bullets and not lead projectiles.

[Eddie Southgate]

Did you back the set screw out on the lock ring ? If so some PB Blast or liquid Wrench should loosen the lock rings . You can usually find parts on ebay . There is a .310 swap thread on this board also so you might want to post that you need an appropriate seating stem for cast in 30-06 . The seating screws are matched to the Lyman bullets and use the last three digits of the bullet mold number . My .218 bee uses a 450 seater when I use Lymans mold #224450 which is 48 1/2 grain bullet.

Eddie

[codgerville@zianet.com]

The die threads are oddball, 5/8x30. I've made some on my lathe, also adapters so they can be used in a standard press. The set screws bear directly on the die threads and will damage the threads if over tightened. I usually whack the set screw area with a dead blow mallet, seems to work ok. There is no threading die available that I have been able to find. Hope this helps.

[Pressman]

If you want to be a collector of old tools you are going to run into all manner od issues. Mostly rust and dirty paint, followed by missing parts.

310 Dies are available, but they are hard to find and when you do you will need a second mortgage to afford them.

I have been using purple 3M pads from Menards to remove light rust withput marking the original finish. Some rust remover chemicals work also, use a stainless steel "tooth" brush on the heavy spots, brass on lighter.
Electrolis is also a good way to remove rust.


Depending on finish a very fine wire wheel on a grinder can work well. But a major caution here, it has to be fine and carefully applied or wire wheels will be your worst enemy.
Cleaning dirty paint brings it's own problems. Most chemical degreasers will get the paint clean and quickly, but depending on the type of paint they can remove a top layer, or worse change the color. Dawn dish soap works and can ruin paint on older tools. And you won't know which ones till it's too late.
Some presses can be run through the dish washer with great results, just know in advance if the saop will harm the paint, and never run an aluminum frame press in the dishwaser as it can strip the paint.

The mildest degreaser I have found is shampoo and a normal tooth brush.

Ken

[Bent Ramrod]

For de-bunging short sections of threads, I use a three-corner Swiss file with one of the flats ground safe. I put the die in some convenient holder (usually a lathe chuck) and roll it back and forth with the safe face on the good part of the thread and the tooth face on the folded over part. You should be able to do this on a bench, by hand, if you are careful.

If it isn't terribly bad, get a Lyman press adaptor, tighten it in your press, and just "burn in" the die by turning it back and forth until the bad spots are reshaped. Won't do the adaptor much good, but they are fairly cheap and nobody uses them for their original purpose much anymore.

Loosen the set screws on the rings and rap the set screw area smartly on your wooden bench top. It should break loose and turn after that.

Rust spots I do with Liquid Wrench and a brass brush, then fine steel wool, then a small, fine wire wheel, depending on the stubbornness. The more extreme treatments will also remove the original bluing, but with bad rust, it's usually gone already. Evaporust also takes off all rust and bluing, and sometimes paint. If the rust is very light, sometimes a good boiling of the part will loosen the surface rust and convert the rest to black iron oxide, which, after oiling, will be hard to distinguish from the original bluing.

[dsh1106]

I have the "special" tap needed to chase the internal threads, if needed PM me.

For external threads I use a slitting file.

Scott

[DonMountain]

The die threads are oddball, 5/8x30. The set screws bear directly on the die threads and will damage the threads if over tightened. I usually whack the set screw area with a dead blow mallet, seems to work ok.

I checked my thread files and you are right. Mine jump from 28 threads per inch up to 32 threads per inch, skipping the non-standard size of 30 threads per inch. I am going to soak the entire tool and dies in a solvent of some sort first and clean all the gunk out of the threads with an old tooth brush to avoid initially damaging the finish. The parts do have a lot of bluing left on them. Then I will try some PB blaster on the threads and lock rings to loosen the lock setscrews and see what happens. I appreciate all the help. It may not be as bad as I thought it was.

[gwpercle]

I have used Ed's Red Bore Cleaner on an old Lyman A-A turret press , a 450 lube/sizer and a WWII German field kitchen can opener that all were grimy with a little amount of light surface rust.
A gallon can be made for under $20.00 so liberal amounts can be used. The acetone can be omitted and it still makes a good cleaner. The stuff cleaned off old caked on bullet lube better than anything.
Not being expensive , and having a gallon , I was able to soak stuck parts in a metal pan for several days and get the parts loose. Just search Ed's Red Bore Cleaner recipe. Leave out the acetone if the parts are painted and don't let the painted parts soak for too long, the mineral spirits might affect the paint. I don't believe the kerosene will hurt the paint but don't chance it.
Gary

[Teddy (punchie)]

Tumble them like brass. Use a good penetrating oil. Chase threads. Inside of dies use steel wool 0000 and drill.

[DonMountain]

Ok, I looked around in the shop for solvents, and of course the most plentiful one was gasoline. So I put the entire set of dies and handles in a plastic container and covered them with a little gasoline and put the cap on and soaked it overnight. Today sometime I am going to go out and brush them all out with an old toothbrush and some old bore cleaning brass brushes and blow them out with air, then apply PB blaster and see if the setscrews in the lock rings will come out. My next part will be finding a set of instructions for a 310 tool to figure out how to use them.

[jrmartin1964]

My next part will be finding a set of instructions for a 310 tool to figure out how to use them.

Here ya' go...
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/pdf/310ToolInstr.pdf

[DonMountain]

Thank you very much for the user manual. I need a magnifying glass to read the small print but its clear and I can see it ok! If I could figure out how to run this printer maybe I could get a bigger one! I have been working on cleaning up the gasoline soaked dies and they are all looking pretty good and came apart easily except for the shell expansion chamber die. The plug inside it is in excellent shape, but the outer die looks like someone took a set of plyers and clamped them on the threaded end that goes into the tong handles, slightly damaging the threads just one or two threads up from the end that gets inserted into the tongs. So I need to get a really fine file and see if I can straighten them up there. The lock ring won't screw off over the damaged threads and I don't want to try screwing the die into the tongs until I get them straightened out. Anybody have any suggestions?

[codgerville@zianet.com]

Thank you very much for the user manual. I need a magnifying glass to read the small print but its clear and I can see it ok! If I could figure out how to run this printer maybe I could get a bigger one! I have been working on cleaning up the gasoline soaked dies and they are all looking pretty good and came apart easily except for the shell expansion chamber die. The plug inside it is in excellent shape, but the outer die looks like someone took a set of plyers and clamped them on the threaded end that goes into the tong handles, slightly damaging the threads just one or two threads up from the end that gets inserted into the tongs. So I need to get a really fine file and see if I can straighten them up there. The lock ring won't screw off over the damaged threads and I don't want to try screwing the die into the tongs until I get them straightened out. Anybody have any suggestions?
Try this; move the lock ring until it stops at the damaged threads, then tap the lock ring with a brass or lead hammer. This should let it move back a little, repeat the process until it will come off. Has worked for me many times.

[DonMountain]

Ok, I finished cleaning up the entire set of dies and the tongs, and got all of the parts to unscrew and the threads all cleaned up so all the dies will screw at least part of the way into the tongs. On the one die with the damaged threads on the tip, I took a thread file for a 32 thread-per-inch spacing and just used the first two lines of the file to straighten up the threads on the edge. And the lock ring then screwed right off with no resistance, and back on again. I tried screwing each die into the tongs and they don't go all the way to the bottom, so either the threads on the tongs are tight at some point or the location where the lock screw in the lock ring had damaged the threads on the die has made it hard to turn all the way into the tongs. But they may not need to go that far in order to actually reload a cartridge? And another question. On the side of the tongs is stamped 30-06, so I assume that only 310 tool dies for certain cartridges will work with these tongs? Since a 30-06 casing just fits into the hole on the tongs? (And also 308 and 243 and 358?) Or if I buy a smaller casing set of dies, like maybe a 223 that would fit? But a 30-40 Krag wouldn't fit due to the larger base rim?

[DonMountain]

Here ya' go...
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/pdf/310ToolInstr.pdf

After looking at the above directions for the 310 tool, I found that I must have an "older" 310 tool. I have 5 dies with mine: 1. Decapping Chamber & Decapping Rod, 2. Muzzle Resizer - 123, 3. Shell Expansion Chamber & Expansion Plug - 308, 4. Priming Chamber - 2, 5. Double Adjustable Chamber - 123 & Bullet Seating Screw - 329 So, now with this complication, in what order do I use this combination of dies to reload a 30-06 shell that has been fired in my rifle?

[Wayne Smith]

1) Decapping die to remove old primer
2) Muzzle resizer to size neck
3)Either priming chamber to prime or Shell expansion to expand neck for cast boolit
4) Whichever of the above you didn't do.
5) insert your favorite powder charge into case
6) seat boolit with double adjustable chamber and bullet seating screw.

You can get a bullet sizing die as well if you want to size your cast boolits.

[DonMountain]

1) Decapping die to remove old primer
2) Muzzle resizer to size neck
3)Either priming chamber to prime or Shell expansion to expand neck for cast boolit
4) Whichever of the above you didn't do.
5) insert your favorite powder charge into case
6) seat boolit with double adjustable chamber and bullet seating screw.

You can get a bullet sizing die as well if you want to size your cast boolits.

According to the die chart in my Lyman Number 39 reloading manual, I have the muzzle resizer die (#123) and the Expansion Plug (#308) for jacketed projectiles. And also the Bullet Seating Screw (#329) for pointed jacketed projectiles. But I find it interesting that Lyman also produced lead bullet sizing dies for the 310 tool. In my normal equipment I usually size them at 0.309" in my RCBS LAM-II for my 30-06 rifle. Does Lyman still produce and sell these lead projectile sizing dies for the 310 tool? And how would you lubricate these projectiles?

[codgerville@zianet.com]

According to the die chart in my Lyman Number 39 reloading manual, I have the muzzle resizer die (#123) and the Expansion Plug (#308) for jacketed projectiles. And also the Bullet Seating Screw (#329) for pointed jacketed projectiles. But I find it interesting that Lyman also produced lead bullet sizing dies for the 310 tool. In my normal equipment I usually size them at 0.309" in my RCBS LAM-II for my 30-06 rifle. Does Lyman still produce and sell these lead projectile sizing dies for the 310 tool? And how would you lubricate these projectiles?
I don't think Lyman makes them now, though someone had a couple for sale here yesterday or today. I have used them when I started reloading but don't have any now. The bullets had to be pan lubed then sized by pushing them through the die. Lyman sold a tool called a Kake Kutter, looked similar to a gasket punch, to cut them out of the pan lube. Slow process. I have some extra bullet seating screws in different shapes if you need something different. Dan.

[Bent Ramrod]

You can make a Kake Kutter by sawing the base off of a fired .30-06 shell and chamfering the case mouth.

If you really have to have one, the 310 Tool boolit sizing chambers come up pretty often on the auction sites. The most common are 0.311" and 0.358" (nominal). These were designed for plain base boolits, or, at most, gas-check designs with the slip-on Ideal gas checks. I don't know how they would work with the newer Hornady crimp-on type. They are pretty much for the subsistence reloader, who loads a box of shells a year; kind of tedious for the typical modern reloader who wants a reasonable number of reloads for the time expended, but the "experience" is always interesting, of course.

You might also look for a replacement 0.311" expander plug for your expander die; it should have a belling flare at the top which might make seating the cast boolits easier at the next step. The 0.308" expander, as you say, is for jacketed bullets.

The dies don't have to screw all the way to the bottom of the spigot on the tong tool. Screw the muzzle resizer in until the neck is reduced to the depth of the seated boolit and lock it there. Lock the expander die just at the point the case mouth is slightly flared, and make up a dummy cartridge and set the seater die and seating screw accordingly and lock them in.

You should have no problem using the tool if you can find dies for the .270 Win, the .280 Rem and other shells similar in length to the .30-06. Shorter, like the ,250 Savage or .243 Win, might or might not work, depending on how long the spigot on the tongs is and how deep you can screw the dies in. It's just a matter of trial and error.

[dsh1106]

Ok, I finished cleaning up the entire set of dies and the tongs, and got all of the parts to unscrew and the threads all cleaned up so all the dies will screw at least part of the way into the tongs. On the one die with the damaged threads on the tip, I took a thread file for a 32 thread-per-inch spacing and just used the first two lines of the file to straighten up the threads on the edge. And the lock ring then screwed right off with no resistance, and back on again. I tried screwing each die into the tongs and they don't go all the way to the bottom, so either the threads on the tongs are tight at some point or the location where the lock screw in the lock ring had damaged the threads on the die has made it hard to turn all the way into the tongs. But they may not need to go that far in order to actually reload a cartridge? And another question. On the side of the tongs is stamped 30-06, so I assume that only 310 tool dies for certain cartridges will work with these tongs? Since a 30-06 casing just fits into the hole on the tongs? (And also 308 and 243 and 358?) Or if I buy a smaller casing set of dies, like maybe a 223 that would fit? But a 30-40 Krag wouldn't fit due to the larger base rim?
If all else fails, send me the tong tool and I'll run a tap through the threads to clean them up.

Thanks
Scott

[DonMountain]

If all else fails, send me the tongue tool and I'll run a tap through the threads to clean them up.

Thanks
Scott

Well thank you for your offer Scott. After playing with it some more the dies now seem to go in plenty far enough to actually reload a cartridge. So now I am ready to reload some 30-06 cases. Or at least I thought. After looking at and reading the set of 310 tool directions, and reading up on reloading in my No. 39 Lyman Handloading Manual with the 310 tool, it became apparent that all those once fired 30-06 cases my brother gave me a couple years ago could not be fired in my rifle after just being neck sized in the 310 tool dies. So, should I just go back to my ordinary single stage press with the full length resizing die to start with? That seemed to destroy the whole emotional feeling of reloading on a 310 tool. So, I had to take the suggestion in the instructions of the Lyman No. 39 reloading manual and get on our favorite bidding site and purchase an old fashioned resizing die complete with the drive out rod so I will have a complete reloading set for the 30-06 to include cases not fired in my rifle. So now I am waiting for that to complete the outfit and set up and adjust the 310 dies to load this box of Sierra jacketed bullets that I have.

[Pressman]

Full length resizing is done with a die and rod. Drive the case into the die and push it out with the rod. Brass hammer or large vice works. The size dies do turn up on eBay ocasionally as Lyman made them well into the 1950's. It's all about simple, and the 310 is that.

Ken

[catskinner]

Put a # 8 lead shot under the setscrew in the lock ring. Keeps the setscrew from burring the die threads.

[Green Frog]

Full length resizing is done with a die and rod. Drive the case into the die and push it out with the rod. Brass hammer or large vice works. The size dies do turn up on eBay ocasionally as Lyman made them well into the 1950's. It's all about simple, and the 310 is that.

Ken
^^^This^^^

Fortunately, it seems that the push through dies are most commonly found in 30-06, so that should be an easy pick up for you. I like to use a vise to push the brass in smoothly rather than pounding it, and some Imperial Die Wax™ or just a thin touch of lanolin to make it even smoother. BTW, if your original 30-06 dies don't clean up well, they too are very easy to find... the 311 case mouth expander not so much, but they are out there. As for other calibers, ANY of the regular rifle calibers should be load-able with that tong set since they say right on the directions "Use Large Handles" or words to that effect. This would include the 243/308 length cartridges. Welcome to the madness, the pain only lasts a short time until you are fully absorbed into the collective! :rolleyes:

Froggie

[beagle]

I once took all of my 310 die stuff to my shooting buddy machinist and we sat down one afternoon and measured every different die, seating screw, expander plug as to thread size. Thinking myself smart, I decided I'd buy a set of taps and dies to cover the entire spectrum. Now, he's a master machinist and did it right and handed me the list and I went happily off with visions of procurement. In about two hours, I quickly discovered that the task I had set for myself quickly assumed a cost in the vicinity of the amplitude of the national debt so I bought several of the more common sizes and assumed the task of chasing threads with a swiss file like the rest of you guys./beagle

[DonMountain]

I once took all of my 310 die stuff to my shooting buddy machinist and we sat down one afternoon and measured every different die, seating screw, expander plug as to thread size. Thinking myself smart, I decided I'd buy a set of taps and dies to cover the entire spectrum. . . . . and assumed the task of chasing threads with a swiss file like the rest of you guys./beagle

The exterior threads I have been able to straighten up with files ok. The internal threads inside the handles have been harder to clean out and I wonder if it would work to take one of those spare dies that I only paid a couple of dollars for just to get the internal bullet seating stems, and grind slots in the threads extending down the barrel to look like a threading die, and use that to clean out the threads in the handles. Has anybody tried that to see how it would work?

[dsh1106]

The exterior threads I have been able to straighten up with files ok. The internal threads inside the handles have been harder to clean out and I wonder if it would work to take one of those spare dies that I only paid a couple of dollars for just to get the internal bullet seating stems, and grind slots in the threads extending down the barrel to look like a threading die, and use that to clean out the threads in the handles. Has anybody tried that to see how it would work?

Don
That might work for the aluminum handles, but you may run into some issues with the steel handles.

Worst case, if you can't get the ID threads cleaned up, let me know.
I have a .609/.610 - 30 tap that I bought just for these parts. I'm sure we can work something out.

Scott

[DonMountain]

Don
That might work for the aluminum handles, but you may run into some issues with the steel handles.

Worst case, if you can't get the ID threads cleaned up, let me know.
I have a .609/.610 - 30 tap that I bought just for these parts. I'm sure we can work something out.

Scott

Thank you for your offer Scott. Just this morning I fired 3 cases loaded with 44.0 grains of IMR-4320 and Sierra #2275 Hollow Point Boat Tail jacketed bullets in new Winchester 30-06 cases with WLR primers. I only seated the bullets in the cases using the 310 tool and dies. These fired well in my 03A3 rifle. So now I am going to increase the load to 46.0 grains of IMR-4320 and shoot 3 more. The object to look for good groups and then completely reload these new cases using the 310 dies from start to finish. And see how well all the dies seat in the 310 tool. So far the priming tool and the bullet seating/crimping tool screw into the correct depth ok. I haven't set the lock rings yet and put a piece of lead shot under the locking screws to keep from damaging the threads. But thats my next step in setting all of this up.

[DonMountain]

One more question about cleaning up these steel 310 dies and tool handles. Should I put any sort of lubrication on the die threads so they will screw in and out of the steel handles a little more easily? Graphite? Grease? Oil? Motor Mica?

[Pressman]

One drop of gun oil at the bottom of the die will coat the threads as you thread the die into the handles. From the old Brylcream ad, a little dab will do ya.
Ken

[Geezer in NH]

http://www.victornet.com/tools/Special-Thread-Dies/402.html

Scroll down 5/8 x 30 die 19 bucks!

[Pressman]

The 310 threads are not 5/8", though we commonly call them that. If I recall correctly they are .603" therefore they require a special, and costly, tap and die.

Ken

[dsh1106]

The 310 threads are not 5/8", though we commonly call them that. If I recall correctly they are .603" therefore they require a special, and costly, tap and die.

Ken

What Ken said.

I paid big $ for the tap I have.

My tap measures. 609 / .610 x 30

Scott

[Geezer in NH]

Anyone try fitting the die by closing it all the way and then removing a bit between the halve so it goes tighter? Just asking As I am cheap type old garage machinist.

.010 is not that much remember that is times 2. for a die it may work.

I agree not for a tap

[Bent Ramrod]

I didn't do it in this case but once cranked on that little screw to open up a standard die as wide as possible, in order to put the proper threads on a single-shot lever pin. I just got to the end of the threaded section when there was a loud "pop!" and the two halves of the die fell out of the holder.

One die, one job. You might be able to pull it off, but prepare to sacrifice.