Cadet Martini

[Goatwhiskers]

I'm sitting around here with entirely too much time on my hands and doing too much thinking. I have a Cadet sitting in the shop begging me to do something with it, a new .30 cal barrel, a bunch of 30/30 brass, and the dies. What about 30/30 in the Cadet, other than recoil in such a light rifle? Just speculating about making me one dedicated to CB loads only, knowing that someone after me is just as likely to want to shoot factory ammo. I have read that this case is the longest that will feed across the breechblock without major alterations. Would be interested in hearing facts, experiences, and opinions. GW

[John Taylor]

There have been many cadets re-chambered to 32 special. You may need to bush the firing pin hole also.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

What about a "Classic" like this 25/35 Winchester?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/23-35_edited-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/23-35_edited-1.jpg.html)

[Goatwhiskers]

BAW, great minds run in the same channel, that pic is pretty much the picture in my mind. I have two .30cal barrels, one is a 1 in 10, the other is a little slower, I forget exactly what. Dunno if I can come up with that lovely PH rear sight but I can probably come pretty close. Got to think on this some more. GW

[country gent]

If length is the issue then possibly the .30 Herret wildcat would help and not give up much in performance. I have a cadet in 218 bee that's a great little walking rifle for woodchucks. They make a sweet rifle.

[Jack Stanley]

Why not the .30 Badger round ?

Jack

[sav300]

Goatwhiskers,my cadet was built for 30-30 and cast.The barrel is a 1-18 twist and stainless,I think from memory.The gunsmith has marked the barrel,30-30 standard ammo only.Shoots cast and jacketed very will.

[gnoahhh]

I had Wayne Schwartz barrel a Cadet in .30-30 for 30 million years ago. Heavy Douglas barrel, it was quite the cast bullet shooter.

[mcdaniel.mac]

If length is the issue then possibly the .30 Herret wildcat would help and not give up much in performance. I have a cadet in 218 bee that's a great little walking rifle for woodchucks. They make a sweet rifle.
That was my thought as well. A fine light rifle caliber.

[Reg]

Had one in .32 Spl, close enough to a 30-30 and with factory loads it was more than painful to shoot. It just flat hurt !!!
Lower pressure cast loads in 30-30 might preform quite well, your shoulder will let you know when you have gone too far, There should be no feed / loading problems, they just fell in but I would bush the firing pin.
Idea of one in 25-35 is interesting !!

[Eddie Southgate]

If its original I'd leave it . Nothing wrong with the .310 . If I was dead set on changing it I would do a 25-20 or a Bee in .25 cal .

Eddie

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If its original I'd leave it . Nothing wrong with the .310 . If I was dead set on changing it I would do a 25-20 or a Bee in .25 cal .

Eddie


The only thing wrong with the .310 Cadet cartridge is that you need a heel bullet mould to fit the brass, and you might easily keep that rifle until you have to use different brass. The others, or .32-20, should be very good, but the OP has .30 barrel blanks, which aren't cheap nowadays, and the .32-20 ought to have a .312 groove diameter. Somebody in generations yet unborn may shoot .312 jacketed bullets through it. The recoil aspect would be eased a bit if you are restocking the rifle, and it is a relatively easy stocking job for the amateur. It only takes a little more width and straightness in the buttplate to make quite a difference.

Clearly people are managing well with the full-length .30-30 based rounds, but they aren't the easiest to insert and eject, especially under a scope unless you can find one with about 5in. eye relief. The .30 Herrett might be easier that way, and you shouldn't lose much in performance to a moderately loaded .30-30. I wonder if there is any easily available brass, in this age of change, which would let you make a rimmed .30 Carbine? That would be hard to beat in the Cadet, with a thick enough neck for long brass life. For that reason, unfortunately, the use of .32-20 brass with a Carbine reamer and dies would only be suitable with bullets of about .321 or .323, and there goes the .30 barrel blank plan.

Ladies of the evening (or so I have heard) often try to seduce the virtuous into their own lifestyle, and the virtuous would do well to approach the idea with caution. But if I were in the OP's situation, there are a couple of interesting projects I would consider. I have never got around to attaching a rim, by swaging or threading, but I am sure it could be done with the .30 Carbine case. Alternatively here is a thread where none other than BA Wallace shows us what I think could be one of the more reliable and easily executed rimless extractors for the small Martini.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?248822-More-Cadet-Talk/page12

The BSA rimfire actions commonly have a full width extractor, which is all you would have to modify. They also have good and generally unabused stocks in plainish walnut, bulkier than the true Cadets, inside which a rather graceful sporting stock lurks unseen till you start carving. Some older actions have only two grooves for the extractor, like the military Martini, with a lump of steel in the middle. I'd make up a chiselling guide block to remove it, fitting inside the action mortice, advanced a little at a time by a screw through the butt screw hole.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BAW, great minds run in the same channel, that pic is pretty much the picture in my mind. I have two .30cal barrels, one is a 1 in 10, the other is a little slower, I forget exactly what. Dunno if I can come up with that lovely PH rear sight but I can probably come pretty close. Got to think on this some more. GW

Yes, I think that is how a Cadet sporting rifle wants to be. There is always something a bit odd about a massive long-range varmint rifle with that graceful little receiver in the middle.

That sight is the BSA 8. You should beware of non-folding ones made for late rifles such as the rimfire 12/15, as they only fit receivers made with a rather ugly cutout for them. For a sporting rifle I much prefer the Sportarget, which I believe is actually the Parker-Hale 16. The one illustrated here (in a website well worth poking around on for a couple of days) is made for a dovetailed bolt-action. But there is a small Martini version which screws to the side of the receiver, and one made to screw at about 10 o'clock to a round receiver can be adapted. It is simply a short micrometer tang sight, turned through 900 degrees.

http://rifleman.org.uk/BSA_sights_and_accessories.htm

All of these sights do come up regularly on www.ebay.co.uk (http://www.ebay.co.uk) , but the prices will make your eyes water. They aren't making them any more.

[Boz330]

I have a small Martini action chambered for 7MM waters. That is the 30-30 cased necked to 7mm. You have to put pressure on the lever to get it to chamber. I use 30-30 brass to form my rounds from. It shoots sub MOA. I use a scout scope so there is nothing hanging over the action to restrict access.
The 25-35 would be my next dream rifle for this action.

Bob

[Eddie Southgate]

The only thing wrong with the .310 Cadet cartridge is that you need a heel bullet mould to fit the brass, and you might easily keep that rifle until you have to use different brass. The others, or .32-20, should be very good, but the OP has .30 barrel blanks, which aren't cheap nowadays, and the .32-20 ought to have a .312 groove diameter. Somebody in generations yet unborn may shoot .312 jacketed bullets through it. The recoil aspect would be eased a bit if you are restocking the rifle, and it is a relatively easy stocking job for the amateur. It only takes a little more width and straightness in the buttplate to make quite a difference.

Clearly people are managing well with the full-length .30-30 based rounds, but they aren't the easiest to insert and eject, especially under a scope unless you can find one with about 5in. eye relief. The .30 Herrett might be easier that way, and you shouldn't lose much in performance to a moderately loaded .30-30. I wonder if there is any easily available brass, in this age of change, which would let you make a rimmed .30 Carbine? That would be hard to beat in the Cadet, with a thick enough neck for long brass life. For that reason, unfortunately, the use of .32-20 brass with a Carbine reamer and dies would only be suitable with bullets of about .321 or .323, and there goes the .30 barrel blank plan.

Ladies of the evening (or so I have heard) often try to seduce the virtuous into their own lifestyle, and the virtuous would do well to approach the idea with caution. But if I were in the OP's situation, there are a couple of interesting projects I would consider. I have never got around to attaching a rim, by swaging or threading, but I am sure it could be done with the .30 Carbine case. Alternatively here is a thread where none other than BA Wallace shows us what I think could be one of the more reliable and easily executed rimless extractors for the small Martini.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?248822-More-Cadet-Talk/page12

The BSA rimfire actions commonly have a full width extractor, which is all you would have to modify. They also have good and generally unabused stocks in plainish walnut, bulkier than the true Cadets, inside which a rather graceful sporting stock lurks unseen till you start carving. Some older actions have only two grooves for the extractor, like the military Martini, with a lump of steel in the middle. I'd make up a chiselling guide block to remove it, fitting inside the action mortice, advanced a little at a time by a screw through the butt screw hole.


See Craiger1987's post in the reforming section on making .310 brass from 7.62 Nagant brass.He does not use a heeled bullet. Make some brass and try it in the original caliber . If you don't like it you can always change it later .

Eddie

[barrabruce]

30-30 wesson sounds like a nice round for a cadet.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have a small Martini action chambered for 7MM waters. That is the 30-30 cased necked to 7mm. You have to put pressure on the lever to get it to chamber. I use 30-30 brass to form my rounds from. It shoots sub MOA. I use a scout scope so there is nothing hanging over the action to restrict access.
The 25-35 would be my next dream rifle for this action.

Bob


Yes exactly. Some people use it in circumstances where manipulating the lever would be perfectly acceptable, and others would consider it a bit much risk of a fumble. If that is going to happen, it isn't going to be when you are shooting at something small. I'm not surprised that it is accurate, though.

I am a great admirer of a little Tasco Bantam scope I have. It was cheap, and is only 2.5x, and so short that I think it must have a roof prism erecting system like many binoculars, rather than an erecting lens. But it works well, and just compare that with no scope at all. The great thing is that it has an eye relief of about five inches, a great rarity which makes it perfectly positioned for the Martini.