Swiss 98/11 vs K11 with LEE FL sizing die

[bkbville]

I had some 7.5x55 Swiss loads that fit in my K31 and thought I'd shoot them in my 98/11, but found they didn't fit. I thought that was weird because the 98/11 chamber is so much more forgiving, so I investigated.

Not being able to figure it out I pulled the boolits and doing more checking I found something odd.

Testing with only the brass, if the brass was once-fired in the K31, it would not fit in either of the TWO 98/11's (mine or a friends) EVEN after being fully resized.

Only if the brass was new (I'm using PPU), or new and full length sized would it fit the 98/11's.

Even after being full length sized in the Lee dies the K31 fired brass would not fit the 98/11.

I double checked and re setup my dies, but there was no difference.

I have chamber casts of all these rifles, but can not find where the issue is, and other than the K11 lead starting right out of the chamber can see no differences in the case.

GP11 fits in all of the rifles, of course, but even with the GP11 brass FL resized (with the expander raised a bit so it didn't break on the berdan case) the GP11 brass fired in the K31 did not fit in the 98/11's.

I've heard of folks getting "K31" die sets (e.g. Redding) but not 1911 die sets.

I could segregate brass, but whats the point of a FL sizing die in that case?

Any ideas on this?

[EDG]

There are 3 places to check with measuring instruments.

1. Diameter of the shoulder of fired cases. Use a micrometer for these precise measurements if you have one.
2. Diameter of the pressure ring of fired cases
3. Diameter of the shoulder and pressure ring of FL sized cases
4. Diameter of the should and pressure ring on new ammo.

5. Head to shoulder length using a Hornady type case gauge.

If you don't have these tools find a can of Blue Dykem layout ink or a black permanent maker. Cover the cases that will not chamber with ink. When they are chambered the interfering areas will have the ink scuffed off.

[bkbville]

I tried the marker thing, but it didn't show anything. I am working with just calipers, so accuracy isn't exact.

From the effort required to size the K31 fired brass I would guess the pressure ring - but it does get sized.

Well I guess the real question is why don't the Lee dies FL size the brass to a point it fits the 1911?

[Mr Humble]

There are 2 different chambers.

The 1890 spec cartridge (dies only made by RCBS) which has smaller dimensions. Trying to size a fired case from a K31 is a bad idea. (guess how I know !)

Then I bought Lee dies for my mint K31. They pushed the shoulder back (causing misfires). Sent them back got another set which are okay as long as I only size 2/3 of neck. Any farther in and the case body is over sized. (Any factory ammo works perfectly)

If I were shooting a ton of 7.5s, I'd probably have Redding (IMO the best) make me a custom set.

Neat old rifle with Walnut that never should have been wasted on a military rifle.

186517

[beemer]

I had two Swiss K-31 rifles, I shot both quite a bit. From what I understand the K-31 has a larger body diameter at the shoulder than the 1911. The GP11 ammo will fit the 1911 and expand out to fit the chamber of the larger K-31 when fired. This makes the brass much harder to size and works the shoulder more with dies designed to fit the 1911. The dies for the K-31 are cut for the larger shoulder.

I don't know why your Lee dies will not size the cases enough unless Lee has started making K-31 dies or they are defective. You have to be sure you have dies for the 1911 chamber. My Lee dies sized the brass to much for my K-31. I bought a set of Redding dies made for a K-31.

The Swiss K-31 is one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned but just not my cup of tea. I much prefer a Mauser or Enfield.

Hope you get it figured out.

Dave

[Mr Humble]

Agree the Lee dies are too small for the K31 but not as small as the RCBS ones. Glad to hear Redding has it right (as they always seem to). Wanna sell your set ?

[bkbville]

I had two Swiss K-31 rifles, I shot both quite a bit. From what I understand the K-31 has a larger body diameter at the shoulder than the 1911. The GP11 ammo will fit the 1911 and expand out to fit the chamber of the larger K-31 when fired. This makes the brass much harder to size and works the shoulder more with dies designed to fit the 1911. The dies for the K-31 are cut for the larger shoulder.

I don't know why your Lee dies will not size the cases enough unless Lee has started making K-31 dies or they are defective. You have to be sure you have dies for the 1911 chamber. My Lee dies sized the brass to much for my K-31. I bought a set of Redding dies made for a K-31.

The Swiss K-31 is one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned but just not my cup of tea. I much prefer a Mauser or Enfield.

Hope you get it figured out.

Dave

The Lee dies are 8 or 9 years old and not supposed to be K31 specific - I just never tried the brass from K31 in the G11's.

Trying to reload for the K31 IS frustrating, with cast or jacketed seating deep in the case - including the RCBS SIL, the NOE K31 are too fat for my K31, it was easier to shoot GP11.

I'll get fresh brass and take the 98/11 (and K11) out in the next couple of weeks and compare the fired cases and figure out where the dies are failing to do what they're supposed to.

GP11 in the K31 is still one heck of an accurate combination and never fails to leave a smile on my face.

[iron brigade]

Could I ask what press you are using? The reason I ask is that you want it to 'cam' over when sizing. I use Rcbs dies for my k11 & 96/11.
I use a Lyman t mag press but have used a Redding boss and Rcbs rock chucker.
I had to borrow my boss press to my brother because his Lee challenger wouldn't cam over.

I have owned a k31, no longer do but never a problem. Have many many firings on the privi brass.
I shoot strictly cast in mine. 311299 sized to .309 with 14-15 grains of blue dot. That load pretty much shoots to the sights at 100 yards.
Hope this helps you out.

[Black Beard]

The Lee dies stress the neck of the brass more to. The neck is smaller and the expander plug larger than the others. So the neck gets crushed down then expanded out again more - working the brass harder.