What's The Difference Between Soule and Creedmore Sights?

[.45Cole]

I see there are minor differences, but where would one shine over the other? What's the big diff?

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

primarily staff height, and thus range. I am switching from my MVA "Country Mile" to a scope finally. Tri-Focals this past year. I'd sell them set, if you are interested. If so, PM me.

Rich

[marlinman93]

Technically a Creedmoor sight is a very tall staff of around 5" height to reach out to 800-1000 yds. with older calibers. True Creedmoor sights did not have windage adjustments. They used windage adjustable globe sights to gain windage in those rifles. The Soule sight can be almost any height, but has adjustable windage in the base of the staff.

edit!

[Chill Wills]

Technically a Creedmoor sight is a very tall staff of around 5" height to reach out to 800-1000 yds. with older calibers. True Creedmoor sights did not have windage adjustments. They used windage adjustable globe sights to gain windage in those rifles. The Soule sight can be almost any height, but has click adjustable windage in the base of the staff.

The red part might be a little misleading. Is that wording what you intended?

[marlinman93]

Oops! No it's not. Thanks! Just adjustment for windage, not "click" adjustment.

[.45Cole]

I'm not one of those black gun types. I assume you meant positive stop detent adjustment rather than just a threaded rod without positive stops (I bet it depends on how much money you want to part with). So soule is adjustable base for windage, while creedmore isn't (traditionally) and creedmores tend to indicate a longer staff?

[jjamna]

And where does a Vernier sight fit in this picture? Is it just another name for one of the above?

[PatMarlin]

I need sights for my 1859 Pedersoli Sharps. Interested Rich...

PM sent.

Pat

[Chill Wills]

I'm not one of those black gun types. I assume you meant positive stop detent adjustment rather than just a threaded rod without positive stops (I bet it depends on how much money you want to part with). So soule is adjustable base for windage, while creedmore isn't (traditionally) and creedmores tend to indicate a longer staff?

I assume you meant positive stop detent adjustment rather than just a threaded rod without positive stops (I bet it depends on how much money you want to part with).
No, just a threaded rod without positive stops. The two "rods", one on each side of the staff are called barrels which are marked in minutes and fraction there of.
So soule is adjustable base for windage
No, there are at least two common kinds of wind adjustable rear targets sights.
Soule= Large easily adjustable knobs that you can see the fine divisions on, and the other kind that has a small wind thumb screw and you watch the fine lines on the staff - they work well too but they are harder to make the fine movements accurately.
Below is a picture of a soule....
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=158544&CAT=4078

while creedmore isn't (traditionally) and creedmores tend to indicate a longer staff?

Basically
- Midrange sights -200/600yards.
- Longrange sights 800y - 1000y used in BPCR competitions or Creedmoor matches - makers call them what ever they want.

BTW - Creedmoor does not have any "more" in it. Common error. Even Remington made it 100 years ago in advertisement.

maybe this helps.

[Old-Win]

Soule is a style of sight invented by J. W. Soule in 1889. Creedmoor is just a loosely used term which is generally thought of as shooting to the long ranges of 800 and beyond. A Creedmoor sight could be any sight tall enough to reach long range. Right click on the image.
https://www.google.com/patents/US410039?dq=soule+sight+patent&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlzur5_-TRAhWIKWMKHTssDb4Q6AEIGzAA


(https://www.google.com/patents/US410039?dq=soule+sight+patent&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlzur5_-TRAhWIKWMKHTssDb4Q6AEIGzAA)

[marlinman93]

And where does a Vernier sight fit in this picture? Is it just another name for one of the above?

Vernier adjustment can be on many types of sight, and doesn't designate a Soule or Creedmoor. Vernier simply means it has a scale on the side, and a screw adjustment for elevation, and usually a thumbscrew knob on top to turn the adjustment.
Vernier is another often misused term, as I've seen simple "gallery" style tang sights that require loosening the eye cup, and manually sliding it up or down, listed as "vernier" sights. I've got a box full of old original Marlin Gallery tang sights from Ballards and Marlins. Neat sights, but useless for accurate shooting, as fine adjustment is impossible to do without some luck.

[Dutchman]

I see there are minor differences, but where would one shine over the other? What's the big diff?

Some text describing "Creedmore". Rightfully, it is a geographical location in England.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/creedmoor-rear-tang-sights-prod23126.aspx


John W. Soule was an inventor.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rtdqqgbrktrfrrdxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/bsbqfkqtdxbrqsqrkstxbrwrrbfqw/2/28344/6456804/00410039001Souletangsight1889b-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

And where does a Vernier sight fit in this picture? Is it just another name for one of the above?

Pierre Vernier (1580-1637) perfected a method of measurement: Vernier scale.

https://www.miniphysics.com/how-to-read-a-vernier-caliper.html

Every handloader and, by proxy, bullet caster should own a Vernier caliper for measuring all manner of things related to our pursuit.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vernier+calipers&biw=1097&bih=543&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPkrftloDSAhVIKGMKHXqkBPgQ_AUIBygC

Dial calipers have, for the most part, supplanted the more archaic Vernier calipers.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vernier+calipers&biw=1097&bih=543&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPkrftloDSAhVIKGMKHXqkBPgQ_AUIBygC#tbm= isch&q=dial+calipers

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, Soule is an inventor's invention, and icrCreedmoor just a looser term for the type of sights used at Creedmoor. I expect they were often used of the same sight.

The Soules were long-term inventors and technologists, who came over on the "Mayflower". John Soule was probably a relative of Captain Silas Soule of the US army, who had been in an attempt to spring two of John Brown's men from jail, but they wouldn't go. Later he refused Colonel Chiverton's orders to participate in the Sand Creek massacre, and was a key witness at the court of inquiry which heavily castigated Chiverton, although due probably to the likelihood of an insanity defence, no charges were brought. Three months later Captain Soule was murdered in the street in Denver. A lot of people thought there might have been some connection.

A micrometer sight divides one turn of the adjusting screw into parts, while a vernier uses a slightly compressed indicator scale. In a 1/10 decimal vernier, when you are measuring 0.6 on the main scale, one of the lines there lines up with the 6 on the indicator scale. Here is one I drew up with AutoCAD, to measure minutes of angle on a protractor scale.

187522

[Chill Wills]

Chivington is the name.


John Soule was probably a relative of Captain Silas Soule of the US army,

????????? Okay? Do you have a source for this or is this speculation based solely (sorry for the pun) on last name?

BTW- A good read on this is Margret Coel's book Chief Left Hand

[Don McDowell]

Interesting that Chivington's fame extended well beyond Sand Creek, there's a long drainage between Lodgepole and Horse Creek in northern Laramie County, that is known as Chivington draw.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Chivington is the name.



????????? Okay? Do you have a source for this or is this speculation based solely (sorry for the pun) on last name?

BTW- A good read on this is Margret Coel's book Chief Left Hand

Ah yes, a typo, I'm sorry. I don't know how close the relationship was, but I found him a couple of days ago, after watching that bit of the full boxed set of Michener's "Centennial" TV series, where Chivington was the original for Skimmerhorn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silas_Soule