Is anyone loading for the 6.5x57 ?

[Southerngunner]

I have a chance to pick up a very nice Mauser at a giveaway price. The barrel is stamped cal 65x57 Gesch.10Gr, the former owner said it belonged to his grandfather and that it was a 6.5x 257 roberts and included 50 cases the have been necked up to 6.5. From my research it appears both cases are the same other than neck size and headstamps. I have no 6.5x57 to compare at this time but there does seem to be some factory ammo available. If any of you can enlighten me I would appreciate any info.This caliber looks like it would be a great candidate for lead boolits. Dies are affordable in the 6.5 57 and with all the new 6.5 calibers coming out the choice of projectiles with good ballistic coefficient is better than in the past. Thanks in advance for any input.
If I pick it up there will be pics

[Texas by God]

Sounds ideal to me. I believe you can get loaded Privi Partizan ammo from Graf&Sons as well. Go for it! Best, Thomas.

[sharps4590]

The 6.5 X 57 is a fine cartridge as are all based on the 8 X 57 case. As the 257 Roberts is the 7 X 57 necked down, don't know if the shoulder angle or body taper was changed, it should be about the same. Obviously a chamber cast or measurement of a known case fired in the rifle would confirm. I'd jump on it!!!

[Mk42gunner]

The 6.5x57 is not quite the same as the 6.5x.257 Roberts, but you will never tell the difference by shooting. What I know about it I discovered a few years ago while searching for data to use in a Type 38 Arisaka that had been rechambered.

I did find actual printed loading data for the 6.5x57, I think it was in the Hornady manual.

Long story made short; Buy the Mauser at giveaway prices.

Robert

[Southerngunner]

Thanks for all replies, I did buy the rifle so here is some of the pictures I promised . Any additional information will be welcomed.186266186267186268186269186270undefined

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It looks like a fine rifle, and a lot more interesting than the ones that pop out of CNC machines or investment casting moulds nowadays. I can think of no earthly reason to wish it had been the Roberts chambering. There should be no discernible difference in performance, and as people have said, the 6.5x57 is better for dies and ready made cartridges, with no difficulty forming cases. You will never lack for brass until rayguns take over.

I can't make out whether it is built on a Mauser 98 action or an earlier one - as many high quality sporting rifles were. The latter will require slightly more conservative loading, but will still be far ahead of many popular deer rifles. Gesch.10 stands for a 10 gramme bullet, geschoss, or 154gr. That is mainly for iron sight regulation, and subject to some variation according to taste, especially with the scope. But it suggests a good, useful rifling twist.

[Texas by God]

Thanks for all replies, I did buy the rifle so here is some of the pictures I promised . Any additional information will be welcomed.186266186267186268186269186270undefined

It's definitely a 98 Mauser and it looks Like a Waffenampt eagle stamp on the receiver ring by the pitting/engraving- suggesting to me a Guild rifle that was further sporterized stateside. IMO. Best, Thomas. You done good!

[frkelly74]

I have an older Speer manual that has a page devoted to the 6.5X57 and it states that the data can be used for the 6.5X257 Roberts conversion. You should get the proper dies for sizing either one of these calibers. When I first got my 6.5X257 roberts Arisaka I attempted to use a set of 6.5 Swede dies to neck size 7mm Mauser brass. It worked until I sized a little too far and got some head separations. The proper dies are much safer to work with. Very pretty rifle there by the way.

[Southerngunner]

Things are looking great I found a new set of RCBS 6.5x57 dies locally for 50$ and I also found some once fired 7x57 brass to neck down. I ended up paying only $180.00 for the rifle ,Leupold m7 -4 power scope and 50 rounds of 257 converted brass, I am very excited to work up some loads. In the meantime I will continue to look for possible build date info as I believe it is possibly pre WW II.

[madsenshooter]

There is, as noted above, a difference, between 6.5x57 and 6.5x257 Roberts. The 6.5x57 is longer to the shoulder. They're close enough that I can use the camming action of the bolt to size down 6.5x57 to 6.5x257 Roberts. However, I don't think they're close enough for you to use 6.5x257 in a rifle that is chambered for 6.5x57 without having excessive headspace. If you get through the first firing the 6.5x257 case will blow out, but might stretch in the web some. You'd best figure which cartridge it's really chambered for.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

There is, as noted above, a difference, between 6.5x57 and 6.5x257 Roberts. The 6.5x57 is longer to the shoulder. They're close enough that I can use the camming action of the bolt to size down 6.5x57 to 6.5x257 Roberts. However, I don't think they're close enough for you to use 6.5x257 in a rifle that is chambered for 6.5x57 without having excessive headspace. If you get through the first firing the 6.5x257 case will blow out, but might stretch in the web some. You'd best figure which cartridge it's really chambered for.

There is a good chance that the 6.5x257 Roberts case would be held close enough to the bolt face for safety and probably even about as good accuracy as the rifle can deliver. However on this issue "a good chance" isn't good enough. It is clear from the opening post that the rifle is 6.5x57, and converted in Germany, and for most of us the two cartridges are about equally a handloading situation. The correct dies were a lucky find, but if Southerngunner had had to pay full price, I doubt if one kind would have cost much more than the other. Had he found the 6.5x257 dies instead, good ammunition could have been made by adusting the sizer a little high in the press. But I would want a screw-clamping locknut for that.

I am fairly sure this rifle would have been built during Germany's disarmament period after WW1, which would explain the military waffenampt mark.

[sharps4590]

What a lovely old rifle!!! Could not agree more with Ballistics. Most assuredly a rifle made "for the trade". Later modified to take modern bases and rings and the safety replaced for scope use.

When you said bargain basement price, you really meant it!!!!!!! Well done sir!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What a lovely old rifle!!! Could not agree more with Ballistics. Most assuredly a rifle made "for the trade". Later modified to take modern bases and rings and the safety replaced for scope use.

When you said bargain basement price, you really meant it!!!!!!! Well done sir!

Yes, although that scope and its mounts look quite recent, it isn't too huge or with too many knobs sticking out to be in keeping. The main thing is that someone has avoided bulbous aluminium alloy Weaver or Piccatinny rail mounts. For a rifle like this I have always felt, like Gilbert and Sullivan, that "true love must be without alloy".

A lot of firearms are valuable by fashion or by name, and bargains are to be had in things the seller can't find on the net and put a name to. I'm currently restoring and casing a .32 rimfire Webley, probably of the 1860s, which I bought from Track of the Wolf for $199, probably because on their side of the ocean it was just an unfashionable pocket revolver in a country awash with pocket revolvers. That hardly compares wth Southerngunner's bargain, though.

Come to think of it, I have had a brief acquaintance with just one 6.5x57 case. I picked it up on the sidewalk outside Marseille airport, where I prefer to think some hunter dropped it, but it was taken from me at security. Still, there could have been another member of the team with a bullet, and another with a funny crutch, like in "The Day of the Jackal".

[Southerngunner]

I appreciate all of the helpful responses but there is a chance the rifle has not been rechambered but is still actually a 6.5 x57 . I am going to get a chamber casting done and check the specs against printed info. I am going to resize some once fired 7x57 brass with the 6.5 x57 dies and compare the measurements with some of the fired brass that came with the rifle. Hopefully it has not been rechambered as there is still factory ammo available in 6.5x57

[frkelly74]

Yes to making some brass with your 6.5X57 dies. size with some space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die as if you were neck sizing, and see if you can get a fit to your chamber with some resistance, ( crush fit ) Size a little more till it goes in easily. and you will know you are on the right track. And Check the bore at the muzzle with a bullet to see if it is 6.5/ .264. I think you will be extremely lucky to find any 6.5X57 ammo available, but who knows. You lucked out with finding dies quickly and reasonably priced.

[Southerngunner]

I do feel lucky to have this rifle especially at the cost and overall condition. It isn't often thing happens this smoothly for me with the dies being local , the Stars were definitely aligned properly , now when my shooting pals want to go out with their plastic guns in 6.5 whatever I can show them where it all started over 100 years ago.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I do feel lucky to have this rifle especially at the cost and overall condition. It isn't often thing happens this smoothly for me with the dies being local , the Stars were definitely aligned properly , now when my shooting pals want to go out with their plastic guns in 6.5 whatever I can show them where it all started over 100 years ago.

So you are, but I didn't realist you thought it was a 6.5x57 rechambered to 6.5x257 Roberts. I on't think this is possible, unless the barrel was set back, and the flange forward of your action looks like it wasn't. I have the following dimensions in the database of my Load From a Disk program:

Roberts:

Length 2.233
Head .473
shoulder .429
length to front of shoulder 1.909
length to rear of shoulder 1.727
neck diameter .291 diameter



6.5x57

Length 2.232
Head .468
shoulder .431
length to front of shoulder 1.941
length to rear of shoulder 1.742
neck diameter .301

So it looks to me like the 6.5x57 chamber is larger in all respects than the 6.5-.257 Roberts, unless it is tight enough to grip brass which actually is larger in the head - and lots won't be.

[MT Gianni]

Lots of 6.5 Carcano and Ariskas had a 257 Roberts chambering reamer run into them making a 6.5x257. I would love to pick up a 6.5x57 as it is an antelope and deer gun on a very nice package. For cast I would use starting loads for the 6.5x55.

[Southerngunner]

I didn't think it was rechambered and all the information about it was from the grandson of the original owner. He told me they couldn't find 6.5x57 but a friend of the family was loading 6.5x257 Roberts that would work in the gun and it must have done so for years. The fellow doing the reloads passed away so they had no more ammo. I am sizing some of the brass at the moment and it seems the chamber is indeed 6.5x57 I also renecked some 7x57s and it fits with just slight resistance when the bolt is closed . I will load a few mid range loads and see what everything looks like tomorrow. Thanks for the reply and advise.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That all sounds good, and I think that friend may have been loading with the dies slightly raised as described above. It is quite possible that they were simply firing standard 6.5x.257 Roberts all the time and never noticed any difference, although that is a possibility I would rather have somebody else explore.

If you use those necked .257 cases, you should first make sure it isn't on the neck that they are tight, as this could increase pressure before the bullet is released. This may be the way to inexpensive brass in the future, and there are various inexpensive ways of thinning the neck if that is needed. There is no safety aspect if the tightness is on he case body.

[Southerngunner]

I loaded 15 rounds with 3 different bullets, 100 grain hp, 125 grain sp, and 154 grain with 35 grains of Varget. That is a low end load listed for the 6.5x55, half of the brass was 7x57 that I necked down. Measuring the brass that I fireformed matches the original 6.5x57 data that I have. My intentions is to set the brass that came with the rifle aside as I do not know it's history,7x57 brass is readily available and I also plan on ordering some Seller & Bellot loaded ammo in the actual caliber.
By the way this rifle is a pleasure to shoot and is surprisingly accurate from a makeshift rest at 25 yards. I was mainly looking for pressure signs on the reformed brass, and to make sure the rifle and scope was as it should be.
When I can get enough proper components the fun will really begin.
This old Mauser has found a permanent home.

[Southerngunner]

Here is some pics of the close range targets the first target had 100 grain HP and 125 grain SP . The second target is with some old RWS 154 grain btsp . None of the fired rounds extracted hard and the primers while flat in the center the outer edges were still round and not flowed to the outside of the primer pocket which would be a sign of excessive pressure. The first shots were to the right so I adjusted the scope to center and raised it slightly.
186543186544

[madsenshooter]

Glad you got it figured out. When you order your S&B, be careful that you don't wind up with 6.5x57 rimmed that they also make. PRVI also makes 6.5x57 and it's available through Grafs. I've shot a few of the S&B through a 6.5x257 converted Arisaka rifle. Just enough to get it on target @100yd, but not enough to test the accuracy. The holes the bullet left in the red clay backstop say it would likely make a good deer round.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I loaded 15 rounds with 3 different bullets, 100 grain hp, 125 grain sp, and 154 grain with 35 grains of Varget. That is a low end load listed for the 6.5x55, half of the brass was 7x57 that I necked down. Measuring the brass that I fireformed matches the original 6.5x57 data that I have. My intentions is to set the brass that came with the rifle aside as I do not know it's history,7x57 brass is readily available and I also plan on ordering some Seller & Bellot loaded ammo in the actual caliber.
By the way this rifle is a pleasure to shoot and is surprisingly accurate from a makeshift rest at 25 yards. I was mainly looking for pressure signs on the reformed brass, and to make sure the rifle and scope was as it should be.
When I can get enough proper components the fun will really begin.
This old Mauser has found a permanent home.

That all seems very satisfactory, and while a jacketed-bullet Mauser might or mightn't become more accurate with full power loads, it is unlikely to become less so. Fired cases ought to measure out slightly wider in the neck than unfired ones, although the more slightly, the better.