.35 Whelen and Lube Failure

[Johnw...ski]

Shot my .35 Whelen today using boolits from my new Saeco #352 mold.
These are the same boolits I have had very good success with from Glenhills Cast Bullets. However I am using 50/50 beeswax/alox as I always have to lube them. The velocity is about 2020 FPS, the load identical to what I have been using with the Glenhills bullets.

Firing from a spotlessly clean barrel the first shot went a little high, the second almost went into the same hole, the third shot opened the hole a little bigger, the fourth shot made the hole still bigger but still less than a 1/2" group at 100 yds. I was really getting excited and then greatly dissapointed when the fifth shot hit about 2" away. That was the end of any accuracy today. I could still get reasonable accuracy (under 2") if I wiped out the bore every shot. I will also add that the smoke was reaching black powder levels. I know 50/50 smokes but this was way beyond anything I had seen before. Guess I went beyond what this lube can do.

John

[JeffinNZ]

Hi John.

Don't be so quick to blame the lube. I use what is essentially a BPCR lube exclusively in my cast bullet shooting and get good accuracy to 2600fps.

How hard is your alloy? You may be border line on the tensile strength of the 'lead'. Further, you should not be having to wipe the bore each shot; it ain't black powder. In doing so you are removing the 'dressing' from the previous shot.

I take it "Glenhills" are commercial cast bullets?? Compare your BHN to theirs if you can.

[Johnw...ski]

Hi Jeff,

You are correct, the Glenhills boolits are advertised to be 12.5 Bn. I measured one and it is 14.3 Bn., mine measure around 13.0 Bn.

I know I shouldn't need to clean every shot, I was just trying to salvage some of the day.

I still think it may be time to lose the alox though.

John


Hi John.

Don't be so quick to blame the lube. I use what is essentially a BPCR lube exclusively in my cast bullet shooting and get good accuracy to 2600fps.

How hard is your alloy? You may be border line on the tensile strength of the 'lead'. Further, you should not be having to wipe the bore each shot; it ain't black powder. In doing so you are removing the 'dressing' from the previous shot.

I take it "Glenhills" are commercial cast bullets?? Compare your BHN to theirs if you can.

[ra_balke]

In my experience, NRA formula lube rarely fails so long as yu do not push yur bullet past 2200 fps.
Were yu seating bullets too deeply ?
Did yu shoot jacketed bullets,before you shot lead ? If yes, you could be tinning the copper fouling in yur bbl by sodering lead, to metal fouling in the bbl.

Could it be yur bore cleaner ? maybe the solvents are doing somthing.

Did yu change to a hotter powder ?

Yu might take a look at the bbl, if it has been tinned toward the muzzel, that means yu were runninmg out of lube.

Is the bbl crown a little wet from bullet lube ? Then yu did not run out of lube, and it was probably something else, and that "else" must have been yur bore cleaner. Probably what happenned, was you had bore cleaner in the bbl, and the lube, and the bore cleaner were not compatable.

[runfiverun]

i had the same experience in two rifles, when you get the poof you also usually get a nice
lead star starting.
if you let the bbl cool down you can shoot 4 more nice shots....
i also determined it was lube failure..??

[HeavyMetal]

I'm going to suggest Lar's carnuba red, the 2700 stuff, and then I will suggest you cast a little harder. Your commercials were 14bhn yours were 13.bhn that may not seem like a lot but Lee's reloading book says tha difference is about 2000 PSI!

Thats a lot of tensile strength! I'd bump the alloy switch lube and try again!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

HI, I have been loading Lyman #3589 a 250 grainer in the 35W to around 2000 fps using NRA 50/50 and get no leading. I do have that (very) faint ring of lube around the crown. Straight Wheelweight metal is somewhere between 10-13 BHN and it is simply too soft to handle the job. I found that out in the 6.5 Swedeish Mauser; boolits started going wild and keyholing (yaws) sideways into the target. Reducing the charges down to 14-1600fps resulted in decent grouping. In the 35Whelan the same thing occured, but I found that either water quenching or adding up to 4% tin to the melt hardened the bullet to the point that it could resist deformation and subsequently group better/well at higher velocity. The subject is also pretty well covered in the Lee loading manual as well as in the NRA's handloading books in a research article done by Col. harrison a few decades ago with 30 Cal boolits. LLS

[Johnw...ski]

Thanks for all the replys guys.

I didn't really consider the lead hardness unill it was brought up here, all that smoke clouded my vision I guess.

However these are gas check boolits and 2000 FPS is not that extreme, and then there's the rather spectacular clouds of smoke.

So, one step at a time, I have cleaned out my lubersizer and will try X-lox 2500 Plus from White Label Lube.

I aready have boolits cast so it will be easy enough to try a slightly higher rated lube. The next step will be to make a harder batch of lead.

Any one have any experience with X-lox 2500 Plus?

John