Stupid question of the day

[PtMD989]

I had my first casting experience over the the weekend. Some of my boolits aren't up to snuff I plan on culling out the bad ones. The SQOTD is how many times can lead be remelted down and reused? Does remelting the lead diminish the quality of it ? How many do overs can one expect before lead quality goes to ****? Sorry I guess that's 3 questions.


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[DerekP Houston]

I had my first casting experience over the the weekend. Some of my boolits aren't up to snuff I plan on culling out the bad ones. The SQOTD is how many times can lead be remelted down and reused? Does remelting the lead diminish the quality of it ? How many do overs can one expect before lead quality goes to ****? Sorry I guess that's 3 questions.


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Haven't found a limit yet! You'll be constantly recycling the sprues either way, I haven't found any harm. You will lose a very small % to oxidation but it isn't worth me worrying about. Keep on melting em back down until you are happy with the results!

[PtMD989]

Thanks for the quick reply. That's good to hear.


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[Hardcast416taylor]

When I actually do get around to digging my berm for my range for both rifle and pistol (only several times in the past 35 years), I`m probably reusing lead again from many years before smelted and re-cast with no leading problems from deminished quality.Robert

[sqlbullet]

lead smelters that refine pure lead from ore are a thing of the past for the most part.

Reason? No limit to how much you can re-use lead. For the most part we have all we need, especially as other industries use less and less.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ptmd,

Of course, depending on the alloy, there would be a point where the alloy could benefit from being refreshed.

I take this from the fact that with linotype machines that used the same alloy time after time after time, there came a point at which the operators added some fresh metal to the re-smelted used casting alloy.

I don't know how much of or what was added, but I suspect antimony and tin.

However, I suspect the need to add fresh metal to the mix came after much use.

Then, if we take Clip on Wheel Weights as an example, the percentages of the metals contained in the mix, according to the Lyman Cast bullet book, are "nominal" and with millions upon millions of bullets having been cast from WW, I suspect that for MOST of our shooting it will not suffer if the alloy varies a bit.

I know that Lyman lists the percentage of tin in WW to be a nominal .5% and I use a 50/50 - WW/lead - alloy for my 45/70, 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast bullets and that alloy casts ever so fine even with a very low percentage of tin.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[PtMD989]

The lead I have is from pipe. I'm casting for ML. trying to keep it pure or as close as I can.


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[georgerkahn]

Not a SQ at all! My experience has been to use alloy from questionable ingots to many, many times remelted alloy. My ONLY fear, bion, is accidentally getting some zinc in my mix. (This as information -- not to shift, or hijack thread!) My regular routine is to add a bit of 100% pure tin, purchased from RotoMetal (https://rotometals.com/lead-ingots-wire/), regardless of what I have, thinking it can't but help, and pour "new" melt into ingots. After a day or two, I use a lead hardness tester (I prefer the Cabine Tree: http://www.castingstuff.com/cabinetree_llc___lead_testers.htm) to guess what I have. If it comes in OK, great! If a bit too soft for my anticipated requirements -- e.g., '06 rifle boolits -- than I add a bit of RotoMetal Superhard alloy. If you Google the LASC (http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm), they have all the percentages posted right on their site to accomplish this. I recommend LOTS of fluxing, too.
Good luck!
geo

[PtMD989]

Thanks for the answers it's good to know that I can recast till I get it right. I have thousands of SQ the day I can't learn something new or laugh is the day you can carry me out feet first.


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[runfiverun]

your questions are probably better than my stupid ideas.

[PtMD989]

your questions are probably better than my stupid ideas.

There only stupid if someone gets hurt or goes to jail. Crazy ideas = innovation. I got some crazy ideas also.


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[runfiverun]

oh I'm sure the flaming melting ball of plastic, propylene glycol, and poly glycol I was trying to balance on a melting plastic fork in my front yard at 3am, in my stocking feet, in a snow storm.
was not a great idea.
it started out as a visit from the good idea fairy, but it ended up a not so great idea.

[DerekP Houston]

Thanks for the answers it's good to know that I can recast till I get it right. I have thousands of SQ the day I can't learn something new or laugh is the day you can carry me out feet first.


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Ask away! SQ aren't really that stupid especially when most beginners have the same questions. Also, it gives us other newbies a chance to answer some questions and pay it forward.

[kmrra]

Yeah what he said , and run5run

[PtMD989]

oh I'm sure the flaming melting ball of plastic, propylene glycol, and poly glycol I was trying to balance on a melting plastic fork in my front yard at 3am, in my stocking feet, in a snow storm.
was not a great idea.
it started out as a visit from the good idea fairy, but it ended up a not so great idea.

I stand corrected. What was that about? Come to think about it. I've had some knuckleheaded ideas myself. Lucky to still be here.


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[wadcutter]

I know a salesman in the solder business who started working in the 70's at the National lead company. When he first started and was tagging along with his boss they went to a company with a wave solder machine. The boss took a look at it and told the business owner "Geez, that solder looks fatigued. I can replace it at a good cost and I won't charge you much to dispose of the old solder". When they went out to the car the new guy said "Boss, I don't think that's correct. Solder doesn't get fatigued." to which the boss replied with a stream of expletives which basically meant "shut up, we are in this business to sell solder". They made a lot of sales back then this way to gullible people.

In answer to the original question, there is no limit to the number of times lead alloys and solder can be melted down. We've been running the same solder pots for years, which get XRF'ed monthly, and they are very stable.

[runfiverun]

well it was an attempt at building a new 'super lube'.
did you know poly-glycol bursts into flames at 450-F or above.
I do too.....now.
the only way I have found to combine poly-glycol bases and beeswax is mechanically.
it still has a temperature window it works best in.

[mfraser264]

As we cast with our furnace of metal the only real issue is the loss of metal is through oxidation as it relates to metal loss. Most metals oxidize (react with oxygen) especially when in the molten state. Lead, tin , and antimony do oxidize. When the furnace or pot is fluxed and skimmed off the mirror shinny metal we then see is less oxidation. As the oxygen in the air around us finds the metal they come together and react and dull the shinny bright metal down.

It is accepted that the tin reacts more so than the lead and not sure on the amount the antimony reacts. For what we do in casting bullets it is not an issue. As noted in a previous post the type setters using linotype alloy would refresh the furnace with virgin linotype from time to time. This was normally done after a check of the metal, what test I am not exact on. However I have a
large plate of lead, about 70 pounds and is called High Tin. Extra tin to bring the type setters furnace metal back into spec. The lead alloys can be melted again and again with only a slight loss due to oxidation. Came across one article that mentioned that 90%+ of the lead in the country is recycled at one point or another making it the most recycled metal.

Cast away and enjoy. Usually my pot is not full all that long at it is recharged throughout the casting session.

[runfiverun]

they would bump the lino-type with foundry type.
it was like 9% tin and 16% antimony [or 15/30] or something real high like that.

[wadcutter]

It is accepted that the tin reacts more so than the lead and not sure on the amount the antimony reacts.... .

I've heard that before but in the 17 years I've been at my current place, we've never had to add tin to our 63/37 Sn/Pb solder pot. We skim off thousands of pounds of dross a year.

We have had to add bit of germanium to the lead-free wave running SN100C alloy.

As you say, I sure wouldn't worry about it for casting bullets.

[RogerDat]

You can lose more tin from oxidation than lead but you are losing both at same time. Tin is just a bit faster to oxidize and we care more about losing it. The oxidation depends on surface in contact with air, and absence of a reducing agent such as wax. Pot that has more depth than width will have less air contact, thus less oxidation, adding some wax based stuff will drive the metal oxide back into the melts. Drop a pea sized piece of bees wax into a casting pot and watch the wax spread out and the dull metal surface go shiny.

It sounds like you are avoiding my personal rookie mistake. I was examining as I cast, which made it harder to get a good casting rhythm going that kept the mold hot. I knew I shouldn't but kept forgetting and looking the bullet over for a couple of seconds. Now I might drop the first few in own pile or right back into pot, but sorting for culls is mostly done after casting is done. Culls, sprues, floor drippings, they all end up back in the pot, if not this one a later one.

[PtMD989]

Thanks for the replies. I was mostly just playing and getting experience I wasn't too worried about perfection. Probably about half of my castings are going back to the pot. It's good to know that lead can be recast over and over.


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