5.7 brass

[lead chucker]

I've been thinking of trying to make 30 cal bullets with 5.7 brass. how are you guys expanding the neck? Would a guy make a taper punch to expand the neck? After that would can you get away with one draw to get the case to .305-.306. This maybe less time consuming than making bullets out of copper tubing.

[runfiverun]

a spud works.
before I got that I just used a couple of neck sizing dies.
after annealing I can size them down to 304 in one pass on the RCBS.

[R.Ph. 380]

I got a mandrel from BT sniper specifically for the 5.7x28. Have to be careful though, if you press it to deep in the brass, the brass can get stuck on the mandrel and require a propane torch to get it off. Really discolored my mandrel before I figured that one out.

Bill

[R.Ph. 380]

I got a mandrel from BT sniper specifically for the 5.7x28. Have to be careful though, if you press it to deep in the brass, the brass can get stuck on the mandrel and require a propane torch to get it off. Really discolored my mandrel before I figured that one out. You know what I bet would work? One of the Lyman M dies for short 270, then 308, anneal and then draw down. Just got to get it down enough to accommodate the draw punch.

Bill

[clodhopper]

I use a 7mm TCU sizing die to open up 5.7 cases.

[lead chucker]

What does the mandrel look like? What the diameter of the draw punch? Thanks for the replies.

[just bill]

a spud works.
before I got that I just used a couple of neck sizing dies.
after annealing I can size them down to 304 in one pass on the RCBS.

Explain this spud for me, I'm not fully visualising this tool.
Thanks,
Bill

[clodhopper]

185783
This is the neck expander/decapping stem from a 7mm TCU sizing die. Most 7TCU cartridges were home made from .223.
You just need something small enough to enter the case mouth and stretch the neck up to the diameter you want as it passes through.

[runfiverun]

it's kind of like the third die in a pistol die set.
it's rounded off at the nose and just tapered so the case mouth rides up it to expand.
the best way to explain it I guess is.
take your index finger, point it up with the nail away from you, and look at that shape.
elongate that just a bit and go from 5mm to 7.5mm in about 3/8th's to half an inch.
now that diameter runs the rest of the length of the rod into the die.
if I had to make one I would probably just modify an M-die.

[BlackoutBuilder]

If you anneal them first, wouldnt it keep from sticking?

[maxreloader]

annealing just makes the brass softer and more pliable. Maybe some Imperial dry neck lube?

[BlackoutBuilder]

Yes, I thought the softness might keep it from hanging on.

[Pee Wee]

If you anneal them first, wouldnt it keep from sticking?

You don't want to anneal them first, I have done that and when you try to expand the mouth they just collapse. Now you can lube each and every one inside and out to keep them from collapsing, which is what I had to do in order to save the 3000 that I was working on. (a pain in the buttocks) Duke in Florida bought the swagging dies for the 30 cal set up from BT Sniper so it has all of the dies included to do all the steps for swagging 30 cal. We have now made over 6000, we had a swagging party this past Friday at Duke in Florida's house and did 1800 in 5 hours. He took a photo of them and should be posting shortly.

[midnight]

R.Ph 380: There is an easy way to get the stuck brass off the mandrel. Just take the mandrel with the brass stuck on it over to a flat anvil and lay it on the anvil horizontally. Then with a small tack hammer tap the brass lightly while rotating it and it will slip right off th mandrel.

Bob

Edit: Sinclair makes different size tapered neck expanding mandrels that fit in a single die body and I use it to expand 5.7 necks.

[just bill]

PeeWee, with the bad experience with .308 cases necking them down and have them crush not being appealed, I was wondering about expanding the annealed 5.7 cases. Guess I'lll find out when my stuff all comes together.
Bill

[Pee Wee]

PeeWee, with the bad experience with .308 cases necking them down and have them crush not being appealed, I was wondering about expanding the annealed 5.7 cases. Guess I'lll find out when my stuff all comes together.
Bill
I have an annealeez annealer and anneal all of my rifle brass. But the boolit ends up at .308 when it comes out of the point form die that we use from BT Sniper. I believe and BT or Duke can verify that. When it comes out of the core set die it is at .309 and then brought back down to .308 out of the point form die. So unless you have a point form die at different size, that to me would be the only way to expand the boolit.

[runfiverun]

don't anneal them.
open them first.
then burn them with the torch.
pin tumble.
lube
push them through the sizer.
check the lube.
then core seat and point form.
clean the lube off. [I use my wet tumbler with walnut media]
now pin tumble them again if you want them super shiny.

[just bill]

Let me clarify, when perping .308/30-06 cases trying to get 2, .458 jackets necking down the top of the cases to make the jacket from the tops,when I try to neck down I get more crushed cases then not.
Bill

[R.Ph. 380]

R.Ph 380: There is an easy way to get the stuck brass off the mandrel. Just take the mandrel with the brass stuck on it over to a flat anvil and lay it on the anvil horizontally. Then with a small tack hammer tap the brass lightly while rotating it and it will slip right off th mandrel.

Bob

Edit: Sinclair makes different size tapered neck expanding mandrels that fit in a single die body and I use it to expand 5.7 necks.

Thanks. got an item # for that Sinclair product? found the mandrel, couldn't find the die body.

Bill

[lead chucker]

Do you need a die body to support the case while it is being brought out to size? or can you put the case in a shell plate seems pulling the mandrel out would not be a problem,

[midnight]

R.Ph. 380: I got part numbers from a 2014 Sinclair catalog for the neck expander die body:

749-011-715SV-------------17 to 38 caliber

749-008-843SV--------------35 caliber and up to 50

Bob

[DukeInFlorida]

I had (and continue to have) great faith in BT Snipers ability to create a system for forming .308 bullets from 5.7 x 28 brass. I am very reluctant to share or show pictures of his system. I would, rather, urge you to BUY his system from him. It's well worth the expense to get a proven system, which works, right off the bat.

Sure, you can futz around, trying to create something that might work, but when you add up all your wasted time and energy, why bother? Brian will supply you with all the pieces and parts, and very complete instructions for how to use it, and will follow that up with amazing customer service. Brians system is designed for high volume production. I will, indeed, post a image of the huge pile of finished 150 grain bullets we made in short order last Friday. That's proof that his system is worth the money. I wouldn't even think about trying to make thousands and thousands of those high quality bullets any other way.

If any of you think that I have deep pockets, and that you can't afford what I can....... Think again. I'm on a fixed Social Security income. Nobody does things cheaper than I do. I analyzed the real cost of quality .308 bullets. And, when I factored in the cost of the BT Sniper system, the availability of 5.7 brass, and the man hours to convert the 5.7s to bullets, it was still cheaper than buying factory bullets. They are able, in our home made 300 blackout cases of hitting bulletin board push pins at 100 yards in off the rack AR rifles. And, produce enough volume to provide Pee Wee, our friend, Eddie, and I in bullets. It also makes my 168 grain bullets, with equal ease, for my M1A.

Anyways, that's my two cents.

[just bill]

You don't want to anneal them first, I have done that and when you try to expand the mouth they just collapse. Now you can lube each and every one inside and out to keep them from collapsing, which is what I had to do in order to save the 3000 that I was working on. (a pain in the buttocks) Duke in Florida bought the swagging dies for the 30 cal set up from BT Sniper so it has all of the dies included to do all the steps for swagging 30 cal. We have now made over 6000, we had a swagging party this past Friday at Duke in Florida's house and did 1800 in 5 hours. He took a photo of them and should be posting shortly.

This is the quote from Dukes post 3-24-16:


After annealing and cleaning the brass, we use a 5.7X28 shell holder in a Rockchucker press, and a neck expander that I got from BT Sniper, and we expand the necks to accept the swaged cores. The cores are at .243" as cast, and after swaging to weight are at .252", too large to fit into an un-expanded 5.7 X 28 FN normal neck.



I guess you revising the process a tad??.

[DukeInFlorida]

No, that is the process. The raw and swaged cores are too large in diameter to fit into a case that hasn't yet had its neck expanded.

[just bill]

I got a mandrel from BT sniper specifically for the 5.7x28. Have to be careful though, if you press it to deep in the brass, the brass can get stuck on the mandrel and require a propane torch to get it off. Really discolored my mandrel before I figured that one out.

Bill

What is the diameter? Just curious.
Bill

[runfiverun]

you don't need to support the case your just necking it up.
it doesn't have to be fancy just open enough to get the size down stem in it.

[BlackoutBuilder]

I am very reluctant to share or show pictures of his system. I would, rather, urge you to BUY his system from him.

Why not? Quality products and services deserve quality reviews. Besides, it's free advertising. I hesitate to buy anything, without checking reviews. Youtube videos of a good length, are almost a must.

[just bill]

My question is is the final size of the neck, .243 ???, because, my understanding is the core seating punch needs to be very close to the I.d. of the case/ jacket to seat the core, personally I like to keep from trimming jackets, just working on the various weights for each jacket lengths. I too am ffrugal, therefore I don't need a jacket trimming die.

[DukeInFlorida]

No need to trim the cases.

[just bill]

Boy, something is going on in the brass market, 3 out of 4 of the used brass sellers don't have 5.7 any more and the other said they can't keep 5.7 in stock. Hope there is some left when the next S. S. Check comes in.
Bill

[Pee Wee]

yes, Bill, its hard to find. takes a while to get the volume that we need to feed our Blackout and 308 Rifles.

[BlackoutBuilder]

Thats why I wanted 9mm instead. Couldnt find 5.7 anywhere.

[lead chucker]

I just got a good supply of 5.7 pretty easy to work with so far kind of like making bullets out of 22Lr cases with a couple more steps. I'm glad you guys here turned me on to them. A lot less time consuming than making bullets out of copper tubing.

[clodhopper]

The brass is free scrounging at my range. There is a few guys who do serious brass collection to help their retirement income.
I pay them 5 cents per case for 5.7s which is more than twice as much as any other local buyer will pay them.
I'm retired too, often any money in my pocket has a destination.
Sometimes it is inconvenient when the see me at the range and walk up with a bulging ziplock.
But I want the brass, the price is fair and I need to dig in my pocket and pay too keep em coming.

[Prospector Howard]

5.7 brass is very difficult to find around my area. People that say that it's easily available are peddling fiction IMHO. I've been on the lookout for it (reasonable for swaging) for 5+ years and no luck hardly at all.

[lead chucker]

I'm trying to point for some of these bullets from 5.7 brass and every one keeps getting stuck in my die or ejects really hard. I cleaned the die made sure they are all lubed. I annealed them in a kiln at 800 F. All my bullets from copper tubing pop right out. I suppose if you don't get all that coating off they will stick.

[clodhopper]

Leadchucker, I burn the polymer coating off.

Prospector Howard, you are right about quantity of 5.7, My scrounging and buying from the local guys has netted about two 32 oz coffee cans full in 2 1/2 years.

[just bill]

I called the gunshop with a range near me, they had no 5.7 brass and said they had 3 boxes on the shelf for a couple years. The new has worn off and the novelty is gone.
Bill

[lead chucker]

I burned it off but might not have cleaned them good enough. I'm working on a batch now and am going to let them tumble for at least 8 hours.

[Zbench]

Stainless Steel Pins are the best for this. Anneal, burn off the coating and then pin shine.

[just bill]

Just curious, do you think it could be the meplat or ejector pin size?
Bill

[runfiverun]

it could.
if you try to push the nose hole too small it will form around the ejector pin.
try backing the die off about 1/8 turn.
I know every time I change something in my process [jackets-core weight] I have to basically re-set my dies up too.

[Pee Wee]

Duke and I found that you have to have all of the coating off of the case. We anneal them at 800 degrees for 20 min. and then we use ceramic pins and tumble for 3 hours. they come out spotless, they look like cooper when they are done. We rinse them thoroughly then dry. Once we core them they are cleaned again with a non petroleum based cleaner and lubed in a zip lock bag. This way they have no contamination on them and we have point formed several thousand now without a problem. We wait till we get a 5 gallon bucket full then start our swaging process. Duke has the chore of finding and getting the 5.7s and somehow he comes up with a 5 gallon bucket full about every six months. He is very protective of these little devils. There are 3 of us that go in together on the different steps in the process cycle. Then we all come together at Dukes and have a swaging party to core them and point form. It takes us about 4 swaging partys to complete a 5 gallon bucket. Then we split them up and go shoot them. We have done in the last year several thousand rounds. we swag 150 grains mostly for our blackouts, but also 168 for Dukes m1 Garrand 308 and I just bought a model 12 savage varmint rifle to shoot the 168s also.

[BlackoutBuilder]

Where is the least expensive place to get the SS pins?

[DukeInFlorida]

STM, the vendor right at the top of this page, is the best place for the pins.

However, if you re-read PeeWees post above, we are using ceramic puns for cleaning the burned plastic off the outside of the cases after annealing. Those ceramic pins I got from a vendor on the internet that specializes in such things. Bought two pounds for a good price, and they work better for this task than the SS pins do.




Where is the least expensive place to get the SS pins?

[lead chucker]

Good to know Duke thanks. I will look into that, triangle shape right? Are you using a tumbler or a vibrator tumbler?

[Pee Wee]

We are using a rebel 17 wet tumbler. However you only use a half cup of water, one oz. of liquid soap and one oz.of lemi shine. Tumble for 3 hours.