Very Strange 9mm Brass

[fourarmed]

I was loading some 9mm on my Dillon SDB tonight - first time I have used it for 9mm. I had a big bag of brass I had amassed from various sources. Things were going well until one of them would not fit into the shell plate. I looked at it rather stupidly, as I had never before seen a rimmed 9mm case. The headstamp was PMC 9MM Luger. It appeared from the condition of the primer pocket that it may never have been loaded. I can understand why. Other than the rim, it appeared to be identical in dimensions to normal 9mm brass, but with no extractor groove.

[bouncer50]

That a easy one to answer. What you have is the 9mm rim for the wheel gun not for the auto.

[fourarmed]

I've heard of such a critter, but I'll bet you a beer the rimmed cases were marked something other than "9MM Luger."

[NuJudge]

I have seen cartridges from quality manufacturers which had missed one manufacturing step. One day I was firing both Berdan primed and Boxer primed 7.62x54R ammunition, and one Boxer Norma cartridge made a "pop" noise when the trigger was pulled, not a "bang". The bullet was still in the case, and I could hear powder rattle in the case. When I got home I was using a RCBS/Lachmiller Berdan deprime tool on the Berdan brass, and I also used it on the one boxer cartridge that did not fire: no flash hole.

Your 9mm case, they did not machine the extraction groove.

[Thin Man]

Yes, it sounds like that one piece of brass missed a stage or two in the manufacturing process, especially with it having the "PMC 9MM Luger" headstamp. The 9mm cartridge that wore a rimmed case for revolvers was titled the 9mm Federal caliber. I always reasoned it to be a slightly under-diameter but seriously overloaded 38 S&W look-alike. If any of those 9mm Federal cartridges did manage to find their way into the cylinder of an old top-break revolver there would have been plenty of excitement when they were fired (or detonated). The cartridge offered little to the American shooters that had not already been answered by other existing calibers, thus little commercial appeal. Other than for low sales, I have wondered if the caliber was dropped because of fears as described above from using that ammo in weaker revolvers.

Thin Man

[fourarmed]

I read the piece about the 9mm Federal in COTW, and that certainly is what this case appears to be, except for the headstamp. I thought about what NuJudge said, but it doesn't seem likely that there would be a step in drawing 9mm Luger cases that would have a rim extending beyond the diameter of the case.

I got a large assortment of reloading "stuff" from a friend who inherited it from his late father. There was some pretty exotic stuff in there, so I imagine that is where this case came from.

[OutHuntn84]

I'd love to see a pic of it if you can post it!

[dbosman]

Here is Tula 9mm and Barnaul 7.62x39 I got in a search for "no extractor groove"

[AZBronco]

9mm Federal case. Has any one looked to see if this case can have it's rim thinned and make the Japanese Nambu 9mm revolver case? TIA AZBronco

[45workhorse]

That's cool.
Manufacturers mistake!
Put in box for display, make up some wild gun name, and have fun with the uninformed.
On second thought, it would be more BS, down the road we would have to put up with.
I would save though, neat stuff..:drinks:

[fourarmed]

I will get out the camera tomorrow and see if I can get some pix of it.

[fourarmed]

If all goes well, the pictures should be here. The rim diameter is .439, rim thickness about .058, diameter just ahead of rim .3875.

[fatelk]

Very interesting! It sure looks like a 9mm Federal rimmed case, but I doubt that PMC ever made those, and there's that issue with the head stamp, and the fact that it doesn't appear to have a relief cut above the rim like all modern rimmed ammunition. It must have missed a couple steps in the manufacturing process somehow. I have a 300 Weatherby case that's similar so it does happen.

[fourarmed]

http://www.ammo-one.com/9mmFedRim.html

There is some information here. According to this source, nobody but Federal made the ammo, and I would just about bet that they did not sell cases separately for reloading.

I don't know where PMC ammo is made, but if it were a US company, sometimes people take tours of the plants and bring home unfinished stuff as souvenirs.

[dubber123]

http://www.ammo-one.com/9mmFedRim.html

There is some information here. According to this source, nobody but Federal made the ammo, and I would just about bet that they did not sell cases separately for reloading.

I don't know where PMC ammo is made, but if it were a US company, sometimes people take tours of the plants and bring home unfinished stuff as souvenirs.

Pan Metallic Cartridge I believe is what it stands for, and I am pretty sure it is of Korean mfg. I used to really like their rimfire ammo.

[fourarmed]

Oh man, I remember buying PMC target for under $100 a case. There were several years back then when I went through at least a case a year.

[ReloaderFred]

PMC has been owned by several different entities over the years. It was first a South Korean company, then a U.S. company (Boulder City, NV), and now back to South Korea.

The case looks to me like a .38 S&W that has the wrong headstamp. I've encountered incorrect headstamps on several different cases over the years, such as .40 S&W on 9mm brass, etc. Stuff happens....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[fourarmed]

Good observation, Fred. The head diameter is very close to .38S&W. The rim is closer to .38 Spl, but that may not be held as close to specs. I am going to guess that you are correct.

[OutHuntn84]

Definitely a great little display piece. I have a whole tub almost full of various nifty or different ammo I've came across over the years. I really need to figure out a nice way to display some of them.