Mid Caliber AR 15 Round ?

[Johnch]

OK my step brother is back in the area .... well at least till he gets sent out again by his company

He bought me lunch today and stated he wants to build up another AR 15 to fart around with cast bullets
He and I both have LOTS of once fired 223 range brass and he would like to find something in the 6.5 MM - 30 Cal that is based on the 223 case
To punch holes in paper targets , pop cans and steel swingers
And this will a fun gun , not a Sub MOA match rifle

Oh I am not a fan of the AR 15's built in 7.62 x 39 , as I tried that and never got feeding right with the AR 15 mags for 7.62 x 39 and he would have to buy all new brass

300 Blackout and ??

I first thought 6.5 or 7 MM TCU , as I have dies and molds for both
But neither would work in a AR 15 mag

The 300 Blackout seems to a good fit for his needs
But are there other good choices that will not kill his wallet ?

John

[rockrat]

6.5 tcu with lighter weight bullets. There are some that use the 7mm tcu with a shortened neck, to use in the AR. Look at the 300 blackout or the 7.62 x 40 too

[runfiverun]

the 25 [stevens?]
caliber version is a pretty good one, you get reasonable velocity's and reasonable weights.

if you just want more than the 223 provides wait a little while.
you'll start hearing about the 22 nosler soon enough.
it's gonna be somewhat like a 22-250 in the 15 platform.
same bolt face but different brass and magazines.

[7br]

I would be a little bit concerned about OAL with the TCU family of cartridges especially for cast boolit use. I have a Contender in 7tcu and a cartridge loaded with a RCBS 28-145 silhouette is hangs over the front of the magazine by a good quarter of an inch.

[StolzerandSons]

I've been investigating the 270 Ingram(aka .270-.223). Lots of bullet and mold choices. Parent case is the .223 so lots of easy to get brass. PTG lists the reamer and CH4D had reloading die sets. Uses standard mags by slightly modifying the lips(still usable with .223 even after mod). Barrels are easy, either an unchambered 6.8 or get a cheap blank from Green Mountain and turn it yourself.
And here's some load data:
https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/270-Ingram-270-223/1687

Hope that helps.

Colin

[Harter66]

Nothing wrong with 6.8 . There's the 25-40 Sharps , 223 up to 25 cal , it runs pretty close to the 250 Savage . 277 Wolverine . Several Raptors in 6-7mm .

The 22 Nosler, as I read it, is in a rebated rim 6.8 case necked down to .223 .
Lots of cats and SAAMI boutique cartridges for the AR platform . I doubt there is a necking variation from 17-338 in a 223 case that isn't tried . The 6.8 has been up and down from 22-35 and there are 22-45 in 308 and 284 based brass .

I want to do 1 in 25 but the Sharps cost is a little steep for my taste.

[mcdaniel.mac]

OK my step brother is back in the area .... well at least till he gets sent out again by his company

He bought me lunch today and stated he wants to build up another AR 15 to fart around with cast bullets
He and I both have LOTS of once fired 223 range brass and he would like to find something in the 6.5 MM - 30 Cal that is based on the 223 case
To punch holes in paper targets , pop cans and steel swingers
And this will a fun gun , not a Sub MOA match rifle

Oh I am not a fan of the AR 15's built in 7.62 x 39 , as I tried that and never got feeding right with the AR 15 mags for 7.62 x 39 and he would have to buy all new brass

300 Blackout and ??

I first thought 6.5 or 7 MM TCU , as I have dies and molds for both
But neither would work in a AR 15 mag

The 300 Blackout seems to a good fit for his needs
But are there other good choices that will not kill his wallet ?

John

.300 Blackout is love. .300 Blackout is life. If he wants to go bigger, there's .338 Whisper #2, aka .338 Murmur aka .338 Phantom, aka .338 Straight.

If you get away from the standard bolt and magazines, there's the 6.5 Grendel. Also, my 9mm pistol has been fun enough I've considered submitting a Form 1 for it.

[Plate plinker]

Do the Blackout, since everything is easily obtainable.

[Rick R]

.300 Blackout is easy to make from 5.56/.223 brass and my one experience with NOE 247gr bullets was kinda fun. I shot my buck with a 125gr SST this year. I still need to get a mid weight mold for supersonic cast shooting.

Wilson Combat's 7.62x40 WT http://www.wilsoncombat.com/7-62x40-wt-rifles/ looks interesting if you aren't going to suppress it.

[Hamish]

The 7TCU will work as is in the magazine with the Lee 130. If you find someone to do a 7TCU barrel for cheap, let me know. That said, the 300 BLK can be played with a hundred different ways,,,,,,

[DCM]

300 blackout gets my vote. Only requires a barrel and ammo to work in the 15 series and does it very well with a decent barrel.
No special mags like the 6.8 or its wildcats. This and using the same bolt as the 5.56 makes things much easier to find and prices are much better too. Heavy Castboolits are a sweet dream in this caliber too. Cases can be made from 222s, 223s or 5.56s or bought from members here, all of which I have done. (time or $, which do you have more of at a given point in time?)
Subsonics are easy also if you wish to go there.
IMO 300whisper is the most bang for the buck.

[MaryB]

6.5 grendel, good for hunting all North American large game. Parts are also readily available now.

[wlc]

For killing tin cans, I'd go 300blk as well. I love mine. "building" one can be as simple as a barrel swap in an existing upper. Even bought a barrel for my Encore in the caliber as well. I only shoot suppressed subs in mine now, what a hoot.

[popper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIL3Ycaz9VE
Interesting.

[jonp]

300blk as tons of cheap 223 brass is to be had

[Johnch]

OK
I sent him a link and you good people did my work
As he ordered a complete upper and dies today

Also not sure where ( but it sort of sounds like fun )
But he found a guy that chambers 30/32 ACP barrels for the AR 15
The set up uses .308 bullets ... up to 200 gr cast bullets just seated enough into the case to hold the bullet
And a single stack mag

Not sure of the cost of that set up .....and it maybe a stiff price knowing my brother

If at all not a huge price I will post a link

John

[Moonie]

I would vote 300 BO or the Wilson Combat 7.62x40. Of the two you will find more info for 300 BO but if you want more power and faster speeds than the 300BO provides the 7.62x40 is a great choice. It will be more expensive, ammo, barrel and reloading dies and load data will harder to find.

[DCM]

WC 7.62X40 barrels start at $275 and up.
WC 7.62X40 uppers start at only$1,295 and up.
Sounds like an interesting round though giving a 2-300fps boost to the 300Blk.

[Texas by God]

OK
I sent him a link and you good people did my work
As he ordered a complete upper and dies today

Also not sure where ( but it sort of sounds like fun )
But he found a guy that chambers 30/32 ACP barrels for the AR 15
The set up uses .308 bullets ... up to 200 gr cast bullets just seated enough into the case to hold the bullet
And a single stack mag

Not sure of the cost of that set up .....and it maybe a stiff price knowing my brother

If at all not a huge price I will post a link

John

.300 Blackout, right? The upper he got? Because that's the best choice. IMO! I hope your headaches are gone BTW. Best, Thomas.

[Greg S]

Been looking at a 6.5 G for the past few year for yotes and wolves. 223 is nice just looking for something with alittle more energy and range. Have both gassers and bolts in 223 and 308. Basically, looking for a new cartridge to mess with. Looked at the 300BO and it is just as spendy to reload for as the 308 and doesn't offer any range advantage.

As above posters have said, parts, brass, data and factory ammo are available.

[Moonie]

Been looking at a 6.5 G for the past few year for yotes and wolves. 223 is nice just looking for something with alittle more energy and range. Have both gassers and bolts in 223 and 308. Basically, looking for a new cartridge to mess with. Looked at the 300BO and it is just as spendy to reload for as the 308 and doesn't offer any range advantage.

As above posters have said, parts, brass, data and factory ammo are available.

He was looking for a mid caliber AR round based on the .223/5.56. I've been loading for the 300BO for years, it is considerably cheaper than 308 as brass is cheap and you can shoot cast at full jacketed velocities. The powder consumption is much less than 308, heck I can load subs at about the same cost as 45acp...

The 6.5G and the 6.8SPC are both great mid cartridges however neither are based on the .223/5.56, I know, I load both of those as well and they do tend to be more expensive as to get full power out of them I use condom covered boolits. FYI, my sons 6.5G is a tack driver with the ammo it prefers, I'm talking 3 in 1 hole at 100...

[Rufus Krile]

And don't forget the elderly Skeeter Skelton 45/223 Jug....

[Texas by God]

I just loaded ammo for my .300 Blackout and the cost per round is about a dime. Maybe.

[garym1a2]

For 300 blkouts I like the lee 155 gr loaded to get 1850fps

[Iowa Fox]

What length barrel & gas system are you guys using for your blackouts? I like the sound of a dime a round.

[wlc]

I've got a 16" with carbine gas. If I had to do it over again I would go with pistol gas. Pistol gas on an AR gives you more options on powders.

[nagantguy]

Just finished my 300!between Christmas and New Years and so far I'm having an blast, it has done something that hasn't happened in a while, it has lived up to its hype, brass is easy to make and I've used several j word options and two cast boolits thus far and have been happy, no giddy like a 12 year old boy at Christmas! More than enough smack for yotes and deer and hogs and other critters , see it as a viable option for battle as well, as far as it's long range capabilities, my scope has dope out to 400, haven't tried it yet past 200 but if you look at it as a more streamlined 30-30 that's good to 350.

[dbosman]

The Blackout talks brings up one of my warnings to youth. All you kids under forty.
Let some company using automated equipment reform your blackout brass. We can replace knees, shoulders, and hips, but you really don't want to wear out your wrists.

[DougGuy]

Stayed out of the AR game so far b/c I don't really like the 5.56 at all, and they didn't make one in .308 when I was in the market for one so I waited. The 300 AAC got popular but it's no more of a player downrange than an SKS with 7.62x39, pretty much a 100yd cartridge as far as hunting goes. I am still waiting for the right caliber, and so far the ARX has come closest to what I would consider the perfect AR load. I still entertain the thought of a stretched out 10mm case and a 200gr .400" boolit do they make one of those yet or would it be just a heavier 100yd cartridge?

I have read a bit about the .30 ARX it is similar to the blackout but offers a hefty performance gain. 6.5 Grendel necked to .30 with 38gr water capacity compared to 24.3gr for the 300 AAC.

186113

186114

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/12/new-30-arx-6-5-grendel-necked-to-30-caliber-beats-300-blk/

[Harter66]

There is the 22 Nosler now available . I haven't dissected the drawings but it looks to be the 6.8 case slightly longer with a rebated head to fit the 223 bolt .
Mechanically you should be able to neck that up to 358 for a 358 MPG or to the more conservative dies and bullets available 6.8 and pick up a bolt later for an actual 6.8 .

Truth be told I have to wonder why there isn't x39 AI for the AR guys . The biggest hassle is feeding and the special mags to accommodate the case taper . Remove 2/3-3/4 of that taper and now it works in a 6.8 mag and bolt and all you have to do is fire form from a 5-10 round mag .

[Moonie]

There is the 22 Nosler now available . I haven't dissected the drawings but it looks to be the 6.8 case slightly longer with a rebated head to fit the 223 bolt .
Mechanically you should be able to neck that up to 358 for a 358 MPG or to the more conservative dies and bullets available 6.8 and pick up a bolt later for an actual 6.8 .

Truth be told I have to wonder why there isn't x39 AI for the AR guys . The biggest hassle is feeding and the special mags to accommodate the case taper . Remove 2/3-3/4 of that taper and now it works in a 6.8 mag and bolt and all you have to do is fire form from a 5-10 round mag .

Interesting on the 22 Nosler, might have to have one of those.

[dkf]

Stayed out of the AR game so far b/c I don't really like the 5.56 at all, and they didn't make one in .308 when I was in the market for one so I waited. The 300 AAC got popular but it's no more of a player downrange than an SKS with 7.62x39, pretty much a 100yd cartridge as far as hunting goes. I am still waiting for the right caliber, and so far the ARX has come closest to what I would consider the perfect AR load. I still entertain the thought of a stretched out 10mm case and a 200gr .400" boolit do they make one of those yet or would it be just a heavier 100yd cartridge?

I have read a bit about the .30 ARX it is similar to the blackout but offers a hefty performance gain. 6.5 Grendel necked to .30 with 38gr water capacity compared to 24.3gr for the 300 AAC.

186113

186114

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/12/new-30-arx-6-5-grendel-necked-to-30-caliber-beats-300-blk/

The .30 Rem AR is more popular than the 30ARX but not by a huge amount. Don't know why it didn't catch on but it outperforms the .300blk by a considerable margin. It is based off of .450bushmaster brass.

[xacex]

Hmm. Got the wheels spinning again on a 6.5 wildcat idea with this one. 260 Nosler perhaps.

[slownsteady22]

Buy 300 bo barrel remove, 223/556 barrel shoot 308 bullets. It's that simple that's why it is IMO only an easy choice.

Sent from my SM-G925R4 using Tapatalk

[6bg6ga]

Have had at least a 1/2 dozen 300 blackouts and love them. I would however love to see an AR in 22-250.

[popper]

why there isn't x39 AI for the AR guys Cheap import ammo. WW still wants $17 a box. 40WT is pretty close to X39.

[Thundermaker]

There is a 6mm×45 where you just neck 223 brass up. Barrels are available.

[bkbville]

30 ARX?

Let me get this right... you take the 7.62x39 neck it down to 6.5 to make the 6.5 Grendel, then you neck it back up to .30 (.308 instead of .311) and you have a 30 ARX?

And you still need new magazines....

Be better off buying a rifle in a more interesting caliber - the whole rifle instead of just an upper - and work from there.

Of course I have to say this tongue and cheek as I have 223, 7.62x39, 300BLK, 6.5Grendel, and 458 SOCOM uppers... but if I'm truthful with myself the 223 and 458 are the only two that don't smell of complete compromise in their categories.

[DCM]

30 ARX?

Let me get this right... you take the 7.62x39 neck it down to 6.5 to make the 6.5 Grendel, then you neck it back up to .30 (.308 instead of .311) and you have a 30 ARX?

And you still need new magazines....



Pretty much.
Gotta change the shoulder and body taper Slightly to add a Little case capacity, not much though. :roll:

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

300 BLK is so easy. Just a barrel and a bit of filing on the mag for perfect feed.

Greg S,

reassess your data. The 300 BLK treads closely on the heels of the 7.62x39, and costs about 1/3rd the powder of the 308 Win. The NOE 247gr boolit load I use is about 1046fps from an 11" barrel, and suppressed, the loudest thing is the bolt carrier group cycling.

John,
we praying the headaches go away man.

Rich

[6bg6ga]

The 300 blk doesn't need ANY magazine filing. They load and function perfectly as is. I've made 1/2 dozen of them and none required any messing with the mags.

[DCM]

The 300 blk doesn't need ANY magazine filing. They load and function perfectly as is. I've made 1/2 dozen of them and none required any messing with the mags.

+1 That is one of the wonderful things about the 300 AAC/Blackout/Whisper, 375 SOCOM and the 458 SOCOM No mag mods to standard 5.56/223 mags Period.

[Moonie]

I did have issues with gen 2 PMAGs using the 245/247gr boolits. My Lancer mags feed everything flawlessly however.

[Texas by God]

I use metal milsurp and Magpul with no problems in my .300 blk.
It's the best choice for the OP. Best, Thomas.

[bkbville]

300 BLK only advantage I can see over just hauling out an x39 Saiga or AK47 is suppressed - but I'm thinking the 458 SOCOM does that with a better bigger thump... just drains the lead supply quicker.

But may I never add another AR caliber...

[DCM]

Pretty much.
Gotta change the shoulder and body taper Slightly to add a Little case capacity, not much though. :roll:

I did some more research on this 30 arx and found that they were using a 20" barrel in this tests that were linked to the original post here on it, +4" over what the common AK/AR configuration 7.62X39s use. Velocity increase HMMM.
The arx modified x39 case provides about 2.4g more water capacity than the original.
I have a co-worker that has a 16" 7.62X39 AR that functions flawlessly with the proper magazines.
Just food for thought.