Anybody seen the 45-70 whisper?

[Tackleberry41]

This was in my email this morn.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/13/45-70-whisper-cartridge/

The comments sure did not give it a whole lot of love. Seems like a case of an ammo company trying to create demand for their product that nobody wants. Whats not to like, go buy a lever gun then just 'swap' the barrel, since they are so easy in a lever gun. And buy the overpriced ammo, that I would imagine anybody with a loading press can duplicate for way less.

[NSB]

I like the 45-70 cartridge and I've owned a number of guns in this caliber. This round has ZERO interest for me. I'll bet someone will thinks it's the best thing going however.

[Smoke4320]

DUH I can shoot subsonic now with my 45-70s..
I cast my own for pennies a piece, pc them, load on cowboy dies (std die sets) into std cases, shoot out of a factory gun and barrel

500 gr at 1050 will kill anything in the US inside 100 yds if I do my part and hit the motor

[GARD72977]

I like it. Don't get me wrong I'm not interested in buying one.

[Tackleberry41]

Just seems like some of the usual answer to a question nobody ever really asked. But we all know there will be people go out and buy them just because.

[map55b]

My mentor (94 year old) says there are no bad cartridges. He goes on to say in North America, one only needs a .30-06, 12 gauge, 45 ACP and maybe a .22LR and you can do whatever. But if the manufactures didn't release anything new, we'd all still be shooting our granddaddy's '03 Springfield's. Not that some of aren't still supping our granddaddy's '03. :)

[modified5]

I love how JD Jones is always thinking outside the box.
I have a 375 JDJ barrel for my handgun contender and it is a thumper for sure.
Do I need a 45-70 whisper? No, but I also don't need a .950JDJ either. :-D
It's cool, but I will never own one. Like others have said, I would just load my 45-70 subsonic if I want to.

[reivertom]

Another unwanted solution to a non-existent problem. I understand a suppressor friendly round for tactical use, such as a .300 Blackout, but I fail to see the reason for this.

[Tackleberry41]

Another unwanted solution to a non-existent problem. I understand a suppressor friendly round for tactical use, such as a .300 Blackout, but I fail to see the reason for this.

Way I read the article, its basically to sell that bullet. Its not like you cant suppress a 45-70 to begin with.

[shell70634]

And I always wanted a contender chambered in 50 cal short (spotter for recoiless rifle) Why? because no one else has one

[winchester 71]

why keep creating bastard cartridges when ammo manufacturers cant supply basic ammo????? All the ultra mag,short mag,17 RF mag, 17 hornet rifles they built and you would go broke trying to shoot any of these and in all reality a hand full of totally available calibers will do what these magic cases will do and not at almost a hundred dollars for 20.......30-378 as a example.........dead is dead and a old 300 win mag will outshine a 300 WSM and at less then half the price per box.........270 is another example of the marketing/bogus speed figures and ammo you play hell trying to find.........................

[robg]

No point in it if you can down load your 45/70 or use that bullet seated deeper.

[17nut]

If you're loading to subsonic speeds then why do you need a "controlled expansion" bullet costing $1½?

Load a 500grain+ lead WFN bullet and let that snow-plow right through whatever you're aiming at. Seemed to work on Bison back in the days (and that with BP and at 3-400yards)
And that bullet will fit a standard 2.1"case in a standard lever, but then again it's allready been done so they cant suck you dry for money that way.

[cold1]

Maybe its for states that have a length limit on ammo cases. Aint it Indiana that has a case length limit of 1.8 inches? It may also appeal to those that dont want to reload to have a subsonic thumper. Another factor that may have lead to the design was all the talk of "Tactical Lever actions" a few years ago.

[Gun-adian]

I kind of do this now with a Lyman 462540 boolit. I cut and trim the case back so it crimps in the right spot on the slug and not halfway up the nose. This way I have the correct OAL for my Guide Gun and a really cool looking round. I keep the speed at about 1000fps. Fun to shoot and accurate.

Now I just have to find some Leverevolution brass so I don't have to butcher my good brass......


http://i.imgur.com/MNEhhD0l.jpg

[rr2241tx]

SSK Industries. Might have known.

[Tracy]

SSK Industries. Might have known.

You got that right. At least this time he did actually modify the case a bit before claiming it as a proprietary cartridge, unlike when he co-opted an existing cartridge (the .300 Fireball) and chambered it in a fast-twist rifle blank in order to claim it as a proprietary cartridge.
I was happy to see someone else bypass that with the .300 Blackout.

[Tackleberry41]

So my theory on just selling their special bullet was right. If was an AR where a barrel change is an easy thing be one thing. But barrel swaps on lever guns are not cheap. And seems like the special chambering would restrict it to only using that special bullet. The blackout can go super of subsonic by changing the magazine.

As stated if you cant kill it with a 500gr going 1000fps, that super wombat 465gr aint gonna do the job any better.

[longbow]

Maybe I missed something but can someone explain why the brass is trimmed so short unless that proprietary bullet has such a long ogive it has to be.

There is so much room in a .45-70 case that long heavy bullets/boolits can be seated deeply when using light powder charges for subsonic or reduced velocity. I understand why Gun-adian is shortening his brass to suit the boolit cast in the mould he has so it will cycle and feed but the proprietary bullet could have been tailored with a groove/cannelure at the factory so brass could be used full length.

So, the only three reasons I can see are:

- as mentioned, to suit hunting regulations where full length brass cannot be used
- because that bullet has a very long ogive
- to sell his proprietary ".45-70" system which it really isn't anymore ~ probably closer to a .45-60 (is the brass head stamped .45-70?... I bet it is). So why would it be called a .45-70?

I have been wanting to get another .45-70 and one of the boolits I'd like to try is the Gunn subsonic:

186118

I certainly don't need an SSK ".45-70 (not) Whisper". As already stated, I am sure it will appeal to some and that's fine. To each his own.

Longbow

[Baja_Traveler]

And here I thought a 45-70 Whisper was just 12 grains of TrailBoss...

[longbow]

Now there you go using common sense! Stop that! JD wants to sell stuff.

[kmrra]

My 45-70 whispered to me once, S-H-O-O-T M-E

[Bird]

A 45-70 whisper, to me, makes about as much sense as a 30-378 whisper.

[Tackleberry41]

That funky bullet they were pushing is made to be aerodynamic I guess, so requires the ogive way back, and only way it would cycle thru an action is if they cut it back to fit. Like Hornady does with their loaded FTX. And being so long requires a faster twist than a 45-70 comes with. I put a faster twist barrel in mine to shoot the long pointed 500gr, but was doing a barrel stub in an H&R anyways. I have a lathe so only cost was the blank.

But we all know the 45-70 whisper is just an attempt to create a market for something people have little need for. One can imagine in a few years, the few sold will become worthless as the company moves on due to low sales.

[NoAngel]

Ohh cool!
I can ruin expensive 45/70 brass to do exactly what a stock 460 S&W case will do. These people DO know we already invented the wheel right?

[Tackleberry41]

Marketing people seldom care about what people want or need. Or in the case of the 45-70 whisper if there already are a dozen other things that can do the same job. All they worry about is selling a product. They needed to move those 465gr bullets, this is their attempt to get people to buy something they have little need for. I think in the end, they will end up with alot of unsold product.

[bkbville]

I'm holding out for the 50 BMG Whisper...

[NoAngel]

They already made a 50BMG short.
It was a spotter round I think. Same case, just shortened significantly

[kingstrider]

I am into NFA stuff and have several suppressor hosts including a Marlin 45-70. This round has no appeal to me since I can already reload subsonic ammo using my existing setup, bullet molds etc.

[flint45]

I think it is stupid.But what do I know.

[Kim]

Having looked this over, just................no.

[longbow]

I don't buy into that long ogive for aerodynamics either because the long ogive doesn't help at subsonic velocities or at least that is my understanding anyway.

Take a look at that boolit I posted the drawing of in post #19. That boolit was designed by Dr. Richard Gunn and has a ballistic coefficient of .51. It certainly doesn't have a long ogive.

Personally I think it is silly to cut back .45-70 brass to suit a bullet that could have been made to fit what already exists. Maybe SSK has a rational explanation but it doesn't make sense to me. Plus once cut down is it .45-70 anymore? Kinda like calling a .45 Colt a .454 Casull because it fits the same chamber... or calling a .45-60 a .45-70 because it will fit the same chamber.

Call me picky but... it doesn't make sense to me from the cut down brass to the long ogive bullet that didn't need to be. Marketing in my opinion.

So, what he said..................no.