Marlin 1894-44 mag-I want a new mold

[HEAD0001]

I just purchased another Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum. This is my second one, and I really like the rifle. I believe my new rifle has the Ballard rifling. I am casting a 240 grain bullet from a Lyman mold(currently). The bullet shoots well, but I just want to buy a new mold.

I am looking for suggestions from you guy's who shoot a rig like mine. What mold do you guys like?? How do you size them?? To what size?? What lube are you using?? I use the Carnuba red mix(with the white). I am just looking for a new idea for a new mold. I do not need it, but I am going to get it anyway. Thanks, Tom.

[Powderpacker]

Have you checked Ranch Dog's web site (there's a link at the bottom of this page). He's a great guy to do business with and he has the molds to make the Marlins shoot .

[mike in co]

there are lots of good 44 levergun boolits out there.
i currently use our group buy 434290 gc mould. 299 with a gas check/291 without. both shoot very well and cycle when the correct overal length is used.... i'm under 1400 fps with this boolit.

i think ranch dogs are a nice option from the commercial choices.

mike in co

[Shuz]

Head0001--I have 2ea 44 mag lever guns. One's a Winchester Trapper AE and the other is a new Marlin 1894 with Ballard rifling. Both guns shoot well with the Lyman 427098 and the Lee 200g RNFP. These boolits weigh in the 205 to 212g area depending on alloy. Another good shooter is the Lyman Devastator 429640HP.

[Lloyd Smale]

best in mine is the 240 rcbs swcgc

[runfiveslittlegirl]

i shoot the same one as Lloyd but i also have a rnfp mold,
it feeds a bit slicker.
in the 92's anyways.
if you are gonna look for a mold look for a nice flat plain base with good bearing surface and a good lube groove.
you can't go wrong with those designs no matter what you do with them.
same thing with g/c's.
and a flat nose is also good for hunting with.

[Jon K]

HEAD0001,

I have that mould available, if you're interested.

Jon

[chaos]

I've got a marlin 1894 in 44 magnum. I've tried several different bullets in this rifle. The ABSOLUTE best that I have found in this gun is a homecast RCBS 44-250-KT. I have been told by MANY that this bullet cannot be seated in the crimping groove and still feed through this rifle. I crimp them right in the groove and my rifle will eat them all day long! I size them to .430 and use Javelina 50/50 hollow stick lube. Groups as good as I can shoot them. Weigh around 255 out of straight wheel weights.

I wish they made a 6 banger mold. Between me and my sons, we shoot about 600 of these a week from various 44's...... 2 at a time is a bitch

[MakeMineA10mm]

I love my Marlin 1894SS. Not sure which kind of rifling it's got, but it shoots straight-as-a-string!

I shoot two custom moulds -
210gr RNFP MAVDutchman (BigLube) that I bought for CAS (but I like the light weight and nose profile for slick-feeding in this rifle), and
285gr RNFP BoomerMikey 434640-GC that was the first group buy boolit mould I ever bought. It's a heavy-hitter.

I think someone is running a group buy for a 240gr RNFP that would be absolutely perfect for what you're wanting. Go look in the Group Buy forums for it.



chaos - what part number is on your RCBS mould? I've been wanting to run a group buy version of the RCBS 250-KT that is part number 82044. It would be a Lee 6-cavity. Here's a pic of the various RCBS 44 Keith bullets (pics are thanks to GLL):

[VTDW]

www.ranchdogmolds.com

[EDK]

LYMAN 427666, 429667, 429215, 429244, 429649 (still experimenting!) LBT 433 300 WFN (feeding problems) and RANCH DOG TLC 432 265. They all work fairly well in assorted 1894 Cowboys in special or magnum brass...you just have to tinker with the over-all length. I really like the RANCH DOG...just received my six cavity version last month while I was on vacation. Mike did his homework on this design..like all of his moulds. 429667 is a favorite also.

I shoot mostly pistol, but want the ammo to be usable in the little MARLINS also.

Remember Mrs. Ranch Dog and Red River Rick need our prayers and hopes for a speedy recovery. They're good folks.

:cbpour::redneck:

[WyrTwister]

I just purchased another Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum. This is my second one, and I really like the rifle. I believe my new rifle has the Ballard rifling. I am casting a 240 grain bullet from a Lyman mold(currently). The bullet shoots well, but I just want to buy a new mold.

I am looking for suggestions from you guy's who shoot a rig like mine. What mold do you guys like?? How do you size them?? To what size?? What lube are you using?? I use the Carnuba red mix(with the white). I am just looking for a new idea for a new mold. I do not need it, but I am going to get it anyway. Thanks, Tom.


I have been casting a SWC for my S&W M29 wheel gun .

But my .44 Mag lever gund do not like it much .

Bought the Lee 6 cavity Round Nose mold & they feed like greased lightning .

Thinking about buying a RN mold for my .357 lever gun .

God bless
Wyr

[kingstrider]

Good thread. I also just bought an 1894SS and was wondering what the heaviest bullet you guys have had luck with is?

[chaos]

chaos - what part number is on your RCBS mould? I've been wanting to run a group buy version of the RCBS 250-KT that is part number 82044. It would be a Lee 6-cavity. Here's a pic of the various RCBS 44 Keith bullets (pics are thanks to GLL):


I dont see a part number on it. The side says "44-250-KT" "RCBS" the back of the mold has the letter"D" on one block. The front of the same block with the letter has the number "11". the fron also has a "W" on each block opposing each other . Wheel Weights? I acquired this mold from another board member and no nothing about it's history and he didn't either..... The sprue plate has little holes in it, about half the size of my other RCBS handgun molds. The damn thing is beat up a bit and looks to have been around the block. It looks just like the one in the center of the picture.

I am not the swiftest on finding stuff on the internet. If you run a group buy on this bullet. DROP me an email or PM and I WILL get in on it, otherwise I may never find your thread

[JDL]

I have the Lee 300 grain for my 1894 and, while it shoots fairly well, it's loosing stablity at 100 yards. A friend uses the light RCBS 225 grain GC and gave me a few to try which shoot very good for the limited amount of boolits tried. I bought a 432244 (my favorite of the 3) from a fellow on this board and my alloy produces a weight of 255 grains. I think the Ranch Dog is a good design but, don't know if my rifle would have issues keeping it stable.
JDL

[JesterGrin_1]

Good thread. I also just bought an 1894SS and was wondering what the heaviest bullet you guys have had luck with is?

There are LOTS of threads on the .44 Mag and 1-38 Twist. But I will give you two loads that work decent to me. One is a Lee 310Gr RNFP GC with 18.5Gr of W296 and CCI-300 Primer that gets about 2 1/2 group at 100 yards. Another is a 300Gr TCFP PB with the same powder charge and primer and will get a bit better than 2 1/2 group at 100 yards. You can get these two from Mike at MasterCast Bullets here on the forum at .431 size.

Another I have heard good things about here on the forum is the Ranch Dog 265Gr and 300Gr but have yet to try them.

I would like to add when testing loads on the target load only 1 round at a time.

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
I've got two 1894's in 44 mag, one's a 24" Cowboy and the other is a 1894P with a 16.5" barrel. I shoot a lot of NEI 196gr GC's out of the Cowboy and a lot of (and I mean a lot) of 429215 Hollow point's out of the 1894p. This rifle is what I use for wallaby and possum and we shoot up to 200 a night. I've also got molds ranging from the 196 up to 300gr. The devastator is also a great mold and I've cast a heap of those for a mate to hunt feral goats. I've taken Fallow Dear with the 429215 so the Devastator should be the ticket for game.
Juddy

[MakeMineA10mm]

I dont see a part number on it. The side says "44-250-KT" "RCBS" the back of the mold has the letter"D" on one block. The front of the same block with the letter has the number "11". the fron also has a "W" on each block opposing each other . Wheel Weights? I acquired this mold from another board member and no nothing about it's history and he didn't either..... The sprue plate has little holes in it, about half the size of my other RCBS handgun molds. The damn thing is beat up a bit and looks to have been around the block. It looks just like the one in the center of the picture.

I am not the swiftest on finding stuff on the internet. If you run a group buy on this bullet. DROP me an email or PM and I WILL get in on it, otherwise I may never find your thread

chaos - thanks for checking. It will be a little while before I run it, because I want all my current GBs done first. Also, I need some sample boolits from the 82044 mould, or even better, samples from all three shown in the above photo, plus maybe an old Lyman 429421. I plan on making some extremely small changes to the boolit, but it will pretty much be the RCBS 44-250-KT.

[JesterGrin_1]

chaos - thanks for checking. It will be a little while before I run it, because I want all my current GBs done first. Also, I need some sample boolits from the 82044 mould, or even better, samples from all three shown in the above photo, plus maybe an old Lyman 429421. I plan on making some extremely small changes to the boolit, but it will pretty much be the RCBS 44-250-KT.

One change that I can think of for the Marlin is to make it a .433 size to fit well. :)

[MakeMineA10mm]

Jester, that is definitely on the list.

HOWEVER, I'm still not sure it is going to do extremely well in the Marlin (or any lever-gun), because the nose on most Keith's is just so long. Many seat them deeper and crimp over the first driving band, but I like to load ammo that is usable in both my pistols and carbines.

The RCBS does have a shorter nose than the traditional Keith, as you can see in my photo above, but I think it is still marginal for feeding through the lever-guns when seated to the crimp groove.

I do NOT want to shorten the nose further, because then it loses some of it's accuracy/long-range qualities, as well as weight. Just look at how the 45 shooters complain about Lyman's incarnation of Keith's 45 bullet. (Lyman shortened the nose so that it would fit in S&W 45 Colt revolvers, and that made it too light for it's bore size and less accurate at long-range.) The editor of Handloader (Dave Scovill?) re-designed it according to Keith's principles and RCBS now sells their mold 45-270-SAA, which is a "real" Keith bullet for 45s... I don't want to "un-Keith" the 44 bullet so it will work through lever-guns. I suppose guys can still seat them deeper and crimp over the front driving band...

[JesterGrin_1]

MakeMine I do agree that the use in some Marlins is iffy as if it will cycle well or not as it depends on the rifle. My 1894 SS in .44 Mag does not like the Keith style. It will cycle but not smooth.

That is also another reason I did post my findings on the Lee 310 Gr as it does cycle. Not smooth as butter but it does cycle and shoots well and hits like a truck for hunting.

[chaos]

chaos - thanks for checking. It will be a little while before I run it, because I want all my current GBs done first. Also, I need some sample boolits from the 82044 mould, or even better, samples from all three shown in the above photo, plus maybe an old Lyman 429421. I plan on making some extremely small changes to the boolit, but it will pretty much be the RCBS 44-250-KT.


Let me know if you need some bullets from me. I'd be happy to help out.

as stated many claim thier rifles dont like this bullet. I ran upwards of 700 of them through mine today without a hitch.

[longbow]

Well, I'm a little late getting in on this one but I'll toss in my 2 cents worth anyway.

I have a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag with 1:38 twist microgroove. Groove diameter is 0.431"/0.432" as best I can measure from a slug.

It has a pretty sloppy chamber but I have never checked the throat. I have loaded PP bullets patched up to 0.436" and had no trouble chambering.

So far I have shot TC, RNFP and SWC (Lyman 421429). My gun is very picky about OAL and I was going to modify the cartrdige stop to allow longer heavier boolit but found that I was not able to get decent accuracy past about 75 yards with a boolit heavier than about 265 gr.

300 gr. were good to 75 yards then sideways through the paper at 100.

Greenhills says it is the twist but others have good success with heavier boolits. Different load? Different Boolit design? Whatever, so far I have been unsuccessful with heavy boolits.

Also, I will not likely ever use a SWC again as even seated short to correct OAL I find they hang up on the shoulder in my gun plus accuracy is mediocre at best. Any TC or RNFP I have tried feeds well as long as it doesn't have a large shoulder like the SWC. I haven't tried them yet but I bet the Ranch Dog 265 gr. moulds would be top notch for the .44 mag. ~ nice design.

I use as cast at about 0.432"/0.433" lubed with LLA.

A 245 gr. RNFP over 24 grs. of IMR 4227 thumps on both ends. I have tried several powders but so far like H110 and IMR 4227 best and since I always seem to have 4227 it gets used most.

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

I have three Marlins with the 1:38 and pretty much consider problems associated with the twist and cast bullets from 265 to 300 grains a MYTH. If your Marlin isn't shooting, its not the twist but the bullet design , firearm or load (added). I've got a TLC432-350-RF coming this week and hope to have some time to get the casting, pressure and stability testing done.

Here is a thread about my stubby little 1894P and my 300-grain bullet... 1894P & Rd TLC432-300-RF (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34220)

I also have a 444P with the Ballard and 1:20 twist. It shoots good but my 444T with the Micro-Groove® and 1:38 will out shoot it any day of the week with my 265 and 300-grain bullets.

[Scrounger]

Gary, I got two cents to throw in here. Note Longbow says he can't get the accuracy beyond 75 yards. Range is definitely a factor in the twist/bullet length/velocity/distance equation. A given twist will stabilize a given length bullet at a given velocity for a given distance. I'd like to hear how well your 300 grain bullets group at 150 or 200 yards, as compared to lighter weight bullets. Not saying you or he is right/wrong, just saying that all four of the factors I mention above come into play in our eternal quest for accuracy. Personally, I don't have a fascination for 275 to 300 grain bullets in my .44 mag; I was happy to get in on the group buy for the 210 grain bullet, add a 240 to 250 grain bullet and I'm done. If I need a bigger bullet, well, that's why there's a .45-70 setting in my safe, it does 300 to 500 grain bullets well. My .30-30 and .357 Mag does the sub-200 grain bullet duties.

[longbow]

Ranch Dog,

I was glad to see in that thread that your wife is doing better. I hope things keep getting better for her and you.

I certainly won't argue with the bullet design comment. I have tried only a couple of designs for 300 gr. cast and 300 gr. "J" bullets as well. None performed well in my rifle with either IMR 4227 or H110 at much over 50 yards. The "J" bullets were the worst of the bunch. A 300 gr. TC PP bullet did well to about 75 yards but as mentioned, was sideways at 100 yards.

Also, I have never had an issue with the microgroove rifling. I had a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 with microgroove barrel and it shot cast bullets very well. So does my 1894 .44 mag with the lighter bullets.

I have shot 265 gr. cast RNFP bullets to 200 yards with accuracy good enough for me. I wouldn't be shooting at critters that far as that is beyond the useful range of the .44 except for paper punching or plinking but the holes were round and the accuracy was there. I figure if I can see it and the gun will shoot that far I should be able to put round holes in it.

Starrbow says he gets good accuracy to 100 yards with WFN 300 gr. bullets and hot loads. I note your design has a very large meplat too so that may be a clue.

It would be interesting though to do a test as Scrounger suggested and shoot same design bullets of say 240 gr., 265 gr. and 300 gr. at 150 to 200 yards to see if any difference in longer range accuracy show up.

All in all I am quite happy with the 265 gr. so may not experiment with heavier bullets any more but I do like your design so maybe I should try one of your 265 gr. moulds.

First I have to fix the Marlin as the front sight base screws came loose and damaged the threads in the barrel during recoil. That will probably happen after I put a new roof on my house!

Too much work and not enough time to play.

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

I was glad to see in that thread that your wife is doing better. I hope things keep getting better for her and you.

Thank you. We will see what the doctors think next week. All of our kids are coming to the ranch this week to offer support. I've had a long day... I drove to Houston and back to pick up two of them. I'm pooped!


It would be interesting though to do a test as Scrounger suggested and shoot same design bullets of say 240 gr., 265 gr. and 300 gr. at 150 to 200 yards to see if any difference in longer range accuracy show up.

I do have the ability to work with those ranges right out my back door. My range has berms at 25, 50, 100, 200, 250, and 300 yards. I have shot the 44 Mag with both of my bullets at all these ranges but out of my 336-44 (1:38). Like you noted,150 yards starts to become beyond the useful range of this particular cartridge but they are very reasonable ranges to help understand what is happening to a bullet. I added the 250-yard berm, an odd distance for most ranges, but a critical distance for a majority of the levergun cartridges. The bullets from most of these cartridges go subsonic between these two ranges and the weird stuff, if it is going to happen, happens. I do switch optics with this distance work to help eliminate older eyes. I remove the 1.5-4.5X32 and replace it with a Bushnell Banner 6-24X40. These leverguns look weird with it and that 1894P will look really weird!

Scrounger's points are all definitely valid (as always) and I would add that Center of Gravity and Center of Lift are huge factors in bullet stability. Simply put, they must be co-located.

I did shoot my referenced setup at 100-yards but only with the three cartridges I had remaining but don't feel that three shots make a group (which measured 2.09 MOA). All this work will come with my 1894P but I'm not sure when... just depends on my week as family is coming in.

[longbow]

No rush on my account Ranch Dog, you have more important things to worry about presently but if and when you do get to it I would be very interested in the results.

All my best wishes to your wife for a speedy recovery. I hope you all have some good family time.

Take care.

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

Hey, this is my thing. I'm really behind with all the casting and shooting activities I had planned for this year but what the heck. With my son here, I'm able to get caught up on the shredding on the ranch... just in time with the weather that is rolling in off the Gulf. I spent a few minutes getting the "P" ready for some distant shooting with the Bushnell Banner 6-24X40. This takes the bad eyes out of it. Now got to load some more ammo. Actually hopes it rain tomorrow so I can get this done!

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/images/Firearms/1894P/1894P Bushnell 6X24X40.JPG

This scope has sat on top of all my Marlins at one time or the other for the same purpose. It's brutal on the 444, 45-70 Govt., and 450 Marlin as it doesn't have much eye relief.

[seabreeze133]

Try the Lyman 429215 w/24 gr 4227. Chronographs about 1550 in a 10" SBH and is accurate in the revolver to 150 meters. Load is not max. Slug your bore, but .432 works well. The microgroove bbls need the load to be pushed HARD to work well. WW brass, WLP primers. Heavy crimp.

Don

[CSH]

I'm with RD regarding the 1:38 barrel. My 1894 44 mag has a 1:38 twist and shoots everything from 200 - 320 grain FN, RN, and SWC, plain base or gas checked, into between 3" - 4" at 125 yards. It might actually do better than that, but that's the best I can do with the factory sights. Accuracy may fall apart at longer ranges, but I don't have a need to shoot anything farther than 100 yards out with this rifle. I have to seat the 310 grain Lee bullet in the top crimp groove for reliable feeding, but it shoots great at 1400 fps. My favorite bullet from this lever gun is the Lyman 429667 loaded over 20.7 gr of WC820. It's very slick feeding and plenty accurate, and no gas check.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Just an FYI/Update for those who were interested. (And, this is to take NOTHING away from RanchDog - His moulds are excellent designs, and well worth looking into.)

I've started the KEITH group buy here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=385073#post385073).

AND, for those of you who are looking at a ROUND FLAT for feeding through your lever-actions, Catshooter is getting ready to start a 225gr (medium-weight) RNFP. The feeler thread for that boolit is here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34942).